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Not a fan of draft-day trades but if you must then ...

You know how I feel about draft day trades? They have rarely factored to any large degree for the Dolphins, as I demonstrate in this column. They were meh before meh was a thing.

And I do believe if you read the column the proof is indisputable.

But personnel men being personnel men, they still think that despite the fact they bat .500 at best -- meaning they miss as a group on half their picks despite all their meetings and tape study and visits and workouts and interviews -- somebody is definitely going try to jockey around the draft board because he thinks himself smarter than everyone else.

So what's my prediction if the Dolphins end up doing that?

Well, while everyone is predicting a trade up because the Dolphins have assets move up if they wish, I see them moving down. That's right down.


Because if the Dolphins personnel department is smart -- and there are indeed some very intelligent people in that group -- somebody has recognized that there are not 100 percent can't-miss superstars in the top seven picks. Going up in the draft will offer some good but no truly amazing player this year.

The value in this draft, I've been told on multiple occasions by personnel men I speak with is lower in the draft where, they say, the 12th pick might not bring any better a player than the 15th-35th pick. In other words, a lower pick might get you as good a player.

If that is the case, then logic says trade down and augment your number of picks and thus your number of equally talented players.

Following that logic, the Dolphins should trade down in the bottom third of the first round and add another second round pick and possibly another later-round pick in the process. That way, instead of picking up one player at No. 12, you pick up two -- with the lower first-rounder and an additional second-rounder -- and those two players can have about the same value as the one player at No. 12.

Logical, yeah?

Obviously, the Dolphins have to find a partner willing to do that.

Look to the San Francisco 49ers.

The 49ers are a ready-made team. They are a player or two from winning the Super Bowl. Maybe they want the best wide receiver in the draft and the way to do that is to be at No. 12. They're also locked in a talent war with Seattle. What better way to get the jump on the 'Hawks?

The 49ers have the 31st pick in the first round and have two second-round picks, including No. 34 overall. If they throw in a later-round pick, I'd give them the No. 12 overall pick. (Indeed, they can keep their later-round pick for all I care).

Such a sceaniro would have Miami picking 31st in the first round, three more times in the second round and two more times in the third round. Six picks in the first three rounds in this draft is a treasure.

Now, all of a sudden, fake GM Salguero is adding perhaps OT D.J. Fluker or OT Menelik Watson if Fluker goes earlier. Now I'm adding cornerback D.J. Hayden at the top of the second round with San Fran's second-rounder and I can go chase Stanford tight end Zach Ertz or San Diego State's Gavin Escobar with the 42nd overall knowing that I've already filled my two primary needs. Or maybe Florida safety Matt Elam or FIU safety John Cyprien is the guy at 42.

And the Dolphins would still have another second rounder after that. Imagine?

The Dolphins worked hard to give themselves choices for the draft while operating in free agency. They should be smart and work hard during the draft to give themselves more choices during that very draft.

One way to do that is to trade down, the opposite direction of what most speculation out there has them doing.

If the Dolphins don't trade down and stay at No. 12, they're likely to look at Star Lotulelei, in part because he's a good player and not a reach at that spot. But will he be a tons better NFL player than any of the guys I just mentioned?

No one can guarantee that. And that's the point of trading down in this draft.



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LOL@Wally. I don't know about Fluker but everything about Ansah points to MAJOR BUST.


When you state we would need to give up a 3rd in 2014, you have to consider we have no idea where we'll be in the 3rd rd, which also effects the value of that 3rd rd'er. Therefore, maybe it would be called a "conditional 3rd" because maybe we have to add yet another "pick" to make up for the value on the the value chart.

Then there's the problem that another team also wants to move to the same spot. So when negotiating any "future picks" you can easily be beat out by a team offering it's present pick. You never know if another team is also coveting the same player that you want to move up to get. Therefore, everything you are offering may need to be in "the here and now", not futures.

2010 NFL Draft
1 28 Jared Odrick DE Penn State 6'5" 296
2 40 Koa Misi OLB Utah 6'3" 251
3 73 John Jerry G Ole Miss 6'5" 328
4 119 A. J. Edds ILB Iowa 6'4" 246
5 145 Nolan Carroll CB Maryland 5'11" 204
163 Reshad Jones FS Georgia 6'1" 214
7 212 Chris McCoy OLB Middle Tennessee 6'3" 251
252 Austin Spitler ILB Ohio State 6'3" 234

2011 NFL Draft

1 15 Mike Pouncey C/G Florida 6'5" 303
2 62 Daniel Thomas RB Kansas State 6' 230
4 111 Edmond Gates WR Abilene Christian 6'1" 192
6 174 Charles Clay FB/TE Tulsa 6'3" 235
7 231 Frank Kearse DT Alabama A&M 6'4" 315
7 235 Jimmy Wilson CB Montana 5'11" 185

2010 Draft
1 27 Devin McCourty Cornerback Rutgers
2 42 Rob Gronkowski Tight end Arizona
2 53 Jermaine Cunningham Linebacker Florida
2 62 Brandon Spikes Linebacker Florida
3 90 Taylor Price Wide receiver Ohio
4 113 Aaron Hernandez Tight end Florida
5 150 Zoltan Mesko Punter Michigan
6 205 Ted Larsen Center NC State
7 208 Thomas Welch Offensive tackle Vanderbilt
7 247 Brandon Deaderick Defensive end Alabama
7 248 Kade Weston Defensive tackle Georgia
7 250 Zac Robinson Quarterback Oklahoma State

2011 Draft

1 17 Nate Solder T Colorado
2 33 Ras-I Dowling CB Virginia
2 56 Shane Vereen RB California
3 73 Stevan Ridley RB LSU
3 74 Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas
5 138 Marcus Cannon G TCU
5 159 Lee Smith TE Marshall
6 194 Markell Carter OLB Central Arkansas
7 219 Malcolm Williams CB TCU


2010 Draft

1 (29) Kyle Wilson Cornerback 5'10" 194 lbs.
2 (61) Vladimir Ducasse Offensive tackle 6'4" 332 lbs.
4 (112) Joe McKnight Running Back 6'0" 198 lbs.
5 (139) John Conner Fullback 5'11" 246 lbs.

2011 Draft

1 (30) Muhammad Wilkerson DL 6 ft 5 in 305 lbs Temple
3 (94) Kenrick Ellis DT 6 ft 5 in 346 lbs Hampton
4 (126) Bilal Powell RB 5 ft 11 in 207 lbs Louisville
5 (153) Jeremy Kerley WR 5 ft 10 in 189 lbs TCU
7 (208) Greg McElroy QB 6 ft 2 in 222 lb Alabama
7 (227) Scotty McKnight WR 5 ft 11 in 182 lb Colorado

Judge For Yourself. And That Was Ireland Drafting For An Incompetent Coach With An Antique Philosophy.

The 2012 Draft Favors The Fins Even More.

Don't know why many here so low on Ansah. Hasn't played much football, but if you look at the kid, he's improved by "leaps and bound" from one season to the next. That's always a great sign indicator.

When playing at the Senior Bowl against absolute premium talent of his piers, from the beginning of that week to the end, he was absolutely one of the best players in attendance.

That's exactly why his draft stock took such a dramatic rise. He prove he absolutely deserved to been seen in the light of being one of the best college players coming out this year. He solidified that with his Senior Bowl play, not just combine numbers.

However, his combine numbers confirmed what scouts saw during his Senior Bowl week.

Albert's situation is an interesting one. 29 is not old. He could serve the team well for another 4-5 years without a problem. Bad Back? He missed only 3 games his entire career. He still was rated Top 10 last year after missing those 3 games.

He was tagged so that is forcing the $9m salary. He won't get that each year go forward. After the top 4 tackles nobody is making that much. It would cost more like $7m per year. For a top 7-10 tackle that is not too bad.

Yes they could try to trade up for a younger cheaper LT. But that costs top 1 and 2 pick to do it. They could stay put and take Fluker or pick up Winston and HOPE that Martin can really play LT. Do we really want that bet?

I really like the idea of using one of our second round picks for a sure bet LT. We keep our first pick which we could use for CB or TE at #12. We might even be able to trade down and pick back up our 2nd round pick and still get a CB and TE.


Evidently Ross hid the fact that the NFL will contribute 150 MILLION!

Posted by: VOTE NO | April 15, 2013 at 08:16 AM

Your a fool, been in the paper long ago when they first start these discussions. MAY is a big world when you talking millions of dollars. VOTE YES

If Ansah fell to #12, he's almost a no brainer to select. Yeah the kid has a lot to learn still, but who better to be his mentor than Cam Wake?

Having no ego of thinking he already knows all there is to know about being a pass rusher. This kid will just take Wake's vast "water" of knowledge like a sponge fresh from dry.


I love draft 'gurus' who first claim that this is a weak draft but then will claim teams 'reach' for talent that is not considered 'value at the position.' I can see the team taking the following players at pick #12.

Rhodes, Trufant, Fluker, Eifert, Wormack, Ansah, Lotulelei, and Vacarro.

If they aren't able to move up and elect not to move up and chose any of these players at #12 I see them helping our team at a NEED position or WANT to IMPROVE position. I don't care what the gurus claim to be 'value' at that draft selection.

The question is can you trade down and still get one of these players? If so then it would make sense to me.

YG 4Ever,

Yeah that's why I said 3rd or even 2nd. I'm not sure how future draft picks are graded on trade value charts but from I understanding it's like basically you offering what you think can close that gap to close to where you want to be as a the team in Oakland's position. Maybe Oakland see's it as we are fine staying put or demanding that 3rd in 2014 but yea conditional makes sense.

As far as another team trading up with Oakland: There's fortunately no one else with Miami's fire power besides San Fran who's waaaaay back at 31 overall so Miami is definitely in a position to move up and won't have any competitors that can do what Miami can as far as offering a 2nd and 3rd in this years draft because Miami has 2 picks in each of those rounds. The round Miami ends up losing altogether would be next years 2/3rd or whatever pick it would be.

WNP, yeah, I'd be content with any of the players you mentioned. ideally one of the LTs would be nice but I don't want to trade up for them. I mean, come on, you can't find a guy to play tackle without giving up the farm. if you were willing to pay a Jake Long who has regressed then your standards can't be that high as to what you want out of a LT.






Let me clarify that 1st paragraph over ^. Sorry doing work and typing at the same time.

Basically Oakland can demand the package of #12, #42 and #111 go along with Miami's 2014 2nd OR they can feel Miami did enough to close the gap if Miami offers a 3rd. Those draft charts are sacred value with these GMS. Not sure where the formula comes from but it's held in high regard as the tell all index. Now the numbers don't have to match exactly but the gap has to be fairly close.

At first everyone talked about trading up and now it seems everyone is prepared to trad down.

I think our best option is to trade horizontally. Think about it.
We could trade this years 1st rd pick for an extra 1st rd pick in 2015. Then we can keep having these large numbers of high picks.


Andy NJ,

Actually, for what we would we have to give up, I don't see the value in any player we would select in the #3 position. It would be better value to have a prospective top 10 player fall to #12, IMO.

The best value trade up I see for us is to trade up no higher than maybe #8, and get Milliner. That costs a 3rd and 7th rd'er. We have 2 3rds and 2 7th rd picks.

Or say if we could get Milliner at the 10th picjk, a 5th and both 7th rd'ers would do it.

Basically Oakland can demand the package of #12, #42 and #111 go along with Miami's 2014 2nd OR they can feel Miami did enough to close the gap if Miami offers a 3rd. Those draft charts are sacred value with these GMS. Not sure where the formula comes from but it's held in high regard as the tell all index. Now the numbers don't have to match exactly but the gap has to be fairly close.


Like I said, I LOVE Fisher but that's too much for a player that's not a QB. That trade up in 2011 for a slow RB is still a head scratcher...

Woodshed Gang,

Then you propose trading out of the 1st rd completely, in lieu of getting an extra 2014 1st pick? We would also get that team's 2013 2nd rd pick, giving us 3 2013 2nd rd picks right?

This doesn't look bad in theory, especially if we still have need for a OT in 2014. With 2 1st rd'ers we would have more than enough ammunition to position ourselves to get a franchise LT.

If not, in 2014, we have more than enough ammo to move into the top 3 and take the best player available that isn't a qb, at any position.

At first everyone talked about trading up and now it seems everyone is prepared to trad down.

I think our best option is to trade horizontally. Think about it.
We could trade this years 1st rd pick for an extra 1st rd pick in 2015. Then we can keep having these large numbers of high picks.


Come on...Really????


YG 4Ever,

I can't see Ireland going into the year with Jonathan Martin and Garner at the Tackle spots and being able to say Im comfortable with that. They can't risk Tannehill's confidence and development like that when they've put so much into upgrading the weapons around him. Maybe a trade back up into round 1 from the 2nd and grab a RT like Fluker or Watson who's not a plug and play guy anyway.

I'm more convinced then ever that Miami's first rounder will be a LT and I can't see that player being Lane Johnson unless it's a smokescreen they don't like him or whatever.

What's so exciting about this year's draft, is that I've never seen a Dolphin draft with so many different options and no glaringly centralized need. Only need even coming close to being centralized is OT, and that's only because we didn't see enough of J-Mart at at LT.

That's why Woodshed's suggestion of moving out of the 1st rd completely isn't even a terrible one. If LT became a concern in 2013, with 2 2014 1st rd picks it can be highly addressed then. If not, we're kiddies in the candy store with 2 014 1st rd draft picks.




Under Woodshed's trade out the 1st rd scenario we gain a 2014 1st rd pick, plus a 2013 2nd rd pick. Giving us 3 2013 2nd rd picks.

In this scenario, we fortify RT(2nd rd) giving J-Mart chance to prove he can hold down LT over an entire season. J-Mart did a very good job of protecting Andrew Luck's blind side over 4yrs at Stanford. So I would be very impartial towards giving him that chance to prove he can do the same for Tannehill.

Posted by: We Need Playmakers | April 15, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Damontre Moore plays WAY to high and looks to have no fluidity in his movements. Whith that said he still has a Hugh up side and his burst is very good and he can be coached up. Big upside but not a #12 pick in my mind.

Woodshed Gang,

If we traded out of the 1st rd with a team above us, not only do we get a higher 2nd rd pick, there's possibility that our 2014 1st rd pick could be top 10 also.

Say if we finished 2013 in position to have the 2014 25th pick. That means in 2014 we would have the 25th pick and we would be picking top 10. Top 5 if we traded our #12 pick to the Raiders this year. LOL...

The only trade that makes any sense is the Dallas Trade. Move down 4 slots and pick up an extra second. If we move up to take a tackle I'm going to be sick. Martina's natural position is that of left tackle. Sooner or later we need to develop and put the guys we drafted in the past to the test. Brennan, Long or Pugh in the 2nd round. No tackle early

I Disagree-They traded down in 2010 and that got two average players when they could have had an Earl Thomas, Jason Piere Paul or Dez Bryant.

Coach Sherman saw Damontre Moore for 3 seasons. This alone tells we wont see Moore in Miami unless Sherman completely signs off on it.

Believe this, there isn't a team in 2013's draft, that has more of the goods on Damontre Moore as Mike Sherman. He recruited him and has 3 years of up close and personal eyeballing of him.

If Moore isn't a Dolphin, its because he was extremely vetted via Mike Sherman, former hc of Texas A&M.

Is this the chat room?

In 2012 Reshad Jones put up better numbers than Earl Thomas. Jones was a 5th rd draft pick in the same year.

So please, began omitting Earl Thomas from any comparisons.

Earl Thomas is a ball hawk All Pro S, Reshod Jones is good. Anyways were drafting a LT, its soooooo obvious Im sure hope when we do draft a LT he'll be better than what long was last year

Also, in 2013, I expect Reshad Jones to make his 1st pro bowl appearance. No one disagrees Reshad Jones had a pro bowl caliber note worthy 2012 season. The kid gets better each and every season.

So fvck Earl Thomas!

Plus Earl Thomas is a FS not a SS like Jones

Damontre Moore,

He's not even the discussion at #12. Move on from that one. Terrible numbers at his pro day. He's not strong or fast or explosive which is bad combination for a pass rusher. Maturity concerns which doesn't go with Philbin. True Mike Sherman can account for him but even with that said Moore is not a 1st round talent. Too many red flags. He will be there in round 2 when Miami picks and should be bypassed then as well. Not a fan of his.

The greatest deficiency of the Miami Dolphins football team over the past 3 seasons has been scoring points. Sure the secondary has been a "slight bit" of it, but year after year we haven't consistently given up a ton of points because of it.

Worse secondarys have made it to conference championship games and higher, during the same amount of time. Why? Because their offense more than know their way into the endzone.

Andy NJ,

Just like I said earlier, no one has the goods on Texas A&M players coming out this year like Mike Sherman. He's truly our kryptonite against drafting a potential bust from this school.

If we draft any A&M player, Sherman signed off on it. If we don't, then it means Sherman signed off on that too. 3 Years of up close and personal eyeballing of them truly makes him expert of this.

YG 4Ever,

Sherman is truly our X-factor when it comes to Texas A&M prospects like Moore, Ryan Swope even a viable RB like Christine Michael or LB Sean Porter. He gives Miami an edge for sure.

He signed off on Tannehill and I think he's going to be the real deal. If Miami drafts another guy from A&M then the benefit of the doubt is on that players side until proven other wise.

Big fan of Swope and Michael. Down on Moore and don't know enough about Porter.

If Martin is to remain at LT, then a trade-down should be the best way to go. It has been argued by most people posting in this blog since last January, at least.

Still, Dolphins saying openly they don't like Lane Johnson could just be a bluff.


Sherman's truly our A&M x-factor. His prior pro experience and eyeballing these kids for 3 season gives great insight into whether they are pro material or not. Even down to their private life and study habits.

That's one way to look at Armando, but aren't you the guy that ALSO said Miami shouldn't trade up because everyone else is looking to trade down?

Huh? What?

It doesn't matter one bit what ANYONE else is doing. If you're sold on a guy you go get him REGARDLESS.

Having said that, Miami can't afford to trade down in the way you suggest. Not at this point anyways. Granted, you can pick up free agents later, but the pool continues to dwindle the day Free Agency starts.

Before they can even THINK about trading down, they HAVE TO shore up the O-Line. Martin hasn't proven anything other than maybe he can be a capable back up. And we still haven't replaced former Left Tackle Jake Long.

Trading down at this point only ENSURES that we won't be solidifying the O-Line.

Then again, go ahead. Trade down, we can always get Mark Colombo and Vernon Carey to come back.


Regarding J-Mart, I'll only say, he protected Andrew Luck's blindside for 3-4yrs and did a damn good job of it. So, right now, until I see otherwise, I'll give him benefit of the doubt to be our 2013 starting LT.

If we see no LT moves made prior to start of training camp. It means our fo and coaching staff has given him that same benefit of the doubt too. If they are willing to give him chance to prove himself over a 16 game season, then so am I.

GM SOD, I respect your viewpoint since you seem to know quite a bit and actually played. You say Moore has no fludiity, however, his agility tests came back extremely well. He scored 6th and 4th in the cone and shuttle for DEs respectively. Now what is it that you see that I can't see or the tests don't capture. I'm not challening you, just trying to learn ...


Mike has to trade up to at least #3 to get Fisher or Joeckel. Trading for Albert is cheaper.

There's no guarantee Lane Johnson would do a better job than Martin at this point. So trading up for him could be a little asinine. At this point, Im no longer heavily considering Johnson unless he fell right into our laps at #12.

I no longer really view him as true trade up material. Although Martin only has 4 games of nfl LT experience, he still has 16 games of nfl OT starting experience right now. It may not be wise to under value this.


Andy, here are Damontre Moore's rank among DEs, so tell me how is he isn't explosive or agile?

Cone 7.05 6th, Shuttle 4.31 4th, Vertical 35.5 (2nd), Broad 10.02 (3rd). True his bench was below average (19 on his pro day) and his speed was poor but when was the last time a DE needed to run for 40 yards? his initial burst and agility as demonstrated by these results are outstanding.

I've read a lot of posts about trading up for a RB.

I would be against that as well.

With the opportunity we have to finally fix the O-Line we have to take it. It's not sexy, so what. Remember the O-Line Shananhan had with the Old Bronco teams?

They could plug in any old running back and send him to the Pro Bowl.

Besides all that, what good will Tannehill and Wallace do when Martin and Jerry are manning the perimeters?

I can almost out bench Martin and John Jerry could out eat my entire family reunion. Just fix the O-Line and I'll rush for over a Grand!


Combine numbers are great, but what's even better, Sherman can combine the "intimate information" with those numbers.

Like: What are his study habits? How is he in the locker room? Does he take any plays off?

I mean combine results are great, but a many guys with great combine number have become bust too. That's why in this case(Moore) I'll trust the "intimate goods" Sherman has on Moore. That will give us something a little more concrete on his resume to become a Miami Dolphin.

Im sure if Sherman willing to sign off on him, we're good to go, as far as selecting Damontre Moore to become one of our newest Dolphins.


Trading up for a rb isn't even in the equation. Why?

There's a greater chance of seeing flavored ice rain in hell, than seeing a rb in this draft go before the 12th pick. Not even Lacy.

So why trade up for a rb that will be drafted lower than #12 anyway? Its a great way to lose your job as gm in the nfl, that's about it.

Mark, I agree with you about Moore - BUT I am not sure he'd be an upgrade to 2nd year O. Vernon.

I think with Vernon at DE and Odrick playing inside and DE we could use Mingo a little more as he could be the OLB / pass rusher. He also has the athletic ability to drop into coverage.

If the Dolphins trade up I would suspect their target would be OL or Dion Jordan. If the trade up happens my fingers will be crossed that it is Jordan. If not stay put and get Mingo or Austin and I would be happy.


His 10 yard split I believe if not mistaken was tied for 3rd worst which where I see lack of first step and explosion. I don't care about the entire 40 so I agree with you there. And his bench was bad is where I see a lack of strength. He's a tweener with no true position. I just don't like his potential. Not strong enough to play 4-3 DE IMO. He's one of those good college players in IMO. His lack of strength, my view explosion and his terrible technique of standing straight up puts him in that high risk Sam Montgomery category.

I Disagree-They traded down in 2010 and that got two average players when they could have had an Earl Thomas, Jason Piere Paul or Dez Bryant.

Posted by: Labduck | April 15, 2013 at 02:20 PM


Nuff Said!!!!

If Mando told them to drop their pants they'd be running around in their Tighty Whiteys!

YEAH! Lets trade down and get a couple more Odrick's and Misi's. Rock and Roll!

Bombs explode at finish line of Boston Marathon. Turn on your TV's.

No deaths reported yet, but lots of injuries.

No one disagrees Reshad Jones had a pro bowl caliber note worthy 2012 season. The kid gets better each and every season.

So fvck Earl Thomas!

Posted by: Yesterday's Gone 4Ever! | April 15, 2013 at 02:32 PM

ROTFLMFAO! Yeah! What YG said!

OMG, bombs explode at finish line of Boston Marathon!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, YG, we need a big TE to block and to catch in the Red Zone, not necessarily at #12. Any recommendations?

Now announced 3 dead at Boston Marathon explosion.

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