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Trades involving 2nd-round picks have been terrible

The Dolphins and the Kansas City Chiefs are in a stare down contest over a trade for left tackle Branden Albert.

The Dolphins know what Albert expects to be paid and continue to go forward with talks. They're not blinking about either the $9.8 million franchise tender currently on Albert or the potential asking price in a long-term deal, contrary to an ESPN report. That is secondary right now.

Every report on the topic says the problem is over a second-round pick the Dolphins must pay to KC for Albert. Apparently the Chiefs want not only a second-rounder but Miami's first of two second-rounders -- the No. 42 overall selection as opposed to the No. 54 overall selection.

So this trade happening ... or not ... will ride on the decision of Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland's plans for his second round picks.

Which begs the question, what is it with the Dolphins and second round picks?

The second rounders have often been used as trade bait by the Dolphins the past decade or so. And rarely has the use of those resources returned a dividend.

Consider:

In 2004, the Dolphins gave up a second round pick to Philadelphia for A.J. Feeley. The idea was to have Feeley, the Eagles backup at the time, become Miami's starting quarterback. Not only did Feeley fail to win the starting job in 2004, he was terrible in the 2005 preseason and new coach Nick Saban traded him and a sixth round pick to San Diego for Cleo Lemon. Verdict: LOSS.

In 2006, the Dolphins gave up a second round pick to Minnesota for quarterback Daunte Culpepper. They did this after they decided Culpepper was a better injury risk than signing Drew Brees as a free agent. Culpepper, outstanding before blowing out his knee in 2005, was never the same. He played only a handful of games in 2006 before getting into an argument with Saban and eventually being shut down. He was cut by the Dolphins in the spring of 2007. Verdict: LOSS.

In 2007, the Dolphins tendered receiver Wes Welker as a restricted free agent. The New England Patriots, seeing an opportunity and on the advice of Nick Saban, wanted Welker. They dealt a second rounder and a seventh-rounder to the Dolphins for Welker. Welker went on to become a Pro Bowl fixture. The Dolphins used the second round pick on center Samson Satele, who played only two seasons for Miami. Verdict: LOSS.

In 2008, the Dolphins were in the middle of a franchise revamp and the only real asset of high merit on the roster was Jason Taylor. But Taylor, wanting a Super Bowl ring, didn't want to go through another roster revamp. He asked, through his agent, to be traded. The Dolphins did just that to the Washington Redskins for a second round pick in 2009. Taylor failed in Washington and was cut and returned to the Dolphins in 2009. Verdict: WIN.

(Even in victory, the Dolphins failed because the pick they gained from Washington was used to pick Pat White. And he was off the team within a year.)  

In 2010, the Dolphins wanted to add a bigtime playmaking wide receiver. They identified restricted free agent Brandon Marshall as that player. They gave up not one, but two first round picks to the Denver Broncos for Marshall. He played two seasons with Miami, leading the team in receptions both years and going to the Pro Bowl in 2011. But he had the same off-field issues in Miami he had in Denver. He also argued with teammates such as Chad Henne, Igor Olshansky and Vontae Davis. He was traded a year ago. Verdict: LOSS.

In 2012, the Dolphins apparently tired of Davis having troubles with maturity and other things. He also showed up sloppy out of shape to camp that summer. The club shipped the former first round draft pick to Indianapolis for two second-round and conditional sixth-round pick. Well, the Dolphins have that pick to use this draft. The second is not quite as high as the Dolphins figured because the Colts played well in 2012 and were a playoff team. The Dolphins also didn't get the sixth-rounder because Davis did not play the required 60 percent of the down for Indy that the pick required. The Dolphins have the No. 54 pick from Indianapolis to use. Verdict: INCOMPLETE.

Obviously history has no tangible impact on what is likely to happen on this issue. But history should warn you that the Dolphins have had a gift for losing when making deals involving second-round picks.

Comments

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Come on armando it's not like we have a great history of drafting players in the 2nd round either. Ireland's track record in the 2nd round is pretty poor

?

Ireland better fold, and let Alberto walk. He is not worth it.

Hey I love Vantae's Grandma. I'll see you later tonight for the draft. You down baby.

You guys keep saying that Ireland is somehow going to screw up tonight.
Remember...Ireland respects Philbin more that Sparano could ever hope for.

Philbin has HUGE input into who gets picked in this draft and would suspect if we don't acquire Fat Albert, then the logical choice to replace Long at LT is Joeckel.

Move up to #3 and get your franchise QB's blindside protection for the next 5-7 years.

BTW, this LT just so happens to have already done this while at A&M with Tannehill so it's kinda a no-brainer at this point.

JUST SAY NO TO FAT ALBERT!

An Albert trade would wind up adding to the list. You look at his body of work, contract and injury history last year. He's a poison pill.

No way in hell is Albert worth elite LT money. Comes with injury history. Offer him $5 mil, and offer KC a third round pick. NO MORE! If not, wait! Be patient Jeff Ireland. Keep all your picks. Getting Albert and paying too much for him will not make a huge difference. We need playmakers!

Just say NO to fat Alebert. no no no no no

Are there any Dolphin fans that actually want this trade made?

I don't mind the trade if it's for the 54th pick. But not the 42nd pick. As for the money? WHO CARES! Please all dolfans should just shut up about the argument "Oh, Albert is not an elite LT so he doesn't deserve that money"... IS this YOUR money!? NO! so stop worrying about it because Steve Ross isn't

There are two groups of fans in tonight's draft:

The first group are those smart enough to know what they DON'T know. The ones who know every draft is a crapshoot and that they have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER how good or bad Miami's selections (or anyone else's) will ultimately work out.

Then there's the second group. These are the ones who will assign instant 'grades' and heap praise or condemnation on a draft before any of these players has played even a single down of professional football. Those fans are idiots.

Which group are you in?

Agree. No to his fat a55 8-9 mil per season too. Joeckle all the way tonight!! GO FINS!

Gotta disagree on the JT/2nd Rd trade Armando. I give it a LOSS. Why? I'd rather have JT back for that one year than have to ever mention Pat White again.

Dolphins need to be careful.
Philadelphia fleeced us with the 2nd Rounder for A.J. Feeley deal.
Andy Reid may try to pull another stunt.

MOST OF THIS DRAFT CLASS IS BELLOW AVERAGE and therefore tonight is COMPLETELY UNPREDICTABLE.

Since we are hours away and NO ONE has ANY IDEA what actually might happen....I'm gonna suggest something WACKY !


The Team should do something BERZERK
and draft a Tight End who might start for the NEXT 10 YEARS.


Oh wait..... Ireland doesn't value 'above average' Tight Ends...
.
.
.

JT stunk in Washington that year. Believe he may have torn up his leg as well that year

KC will pick FISCHER with first pick.

Just broke.

Well I am not an idiot. I have been saying. Sit on what you have. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
The Phins pick at 12. Pick. Let the chips fall where they lie and leave it alone. Let all the other mental midgets play trade for unknowns.

It was two 2nd rounders for Marshall, not firsts, but it was still a fail. Seems like most of our pics are from past mistakes. That's not good value.

its sooo obvious were taking a tackle in the first. guys not sure what the debating is about

Sound like Fisher is going to KC...the Jags will draft a DE with #2 so Joeckel is still sitting there at #3.

GO GET EM' Ireland!

If we give a second pick and lots of money for Albert I will try to get Ireland fire everyday for the rest of my life... that Chiefs coach wants to abuse Miami.

go finsssssssss

As a Dolphin fan, I say no to Albert. If KC got better deal they would have done it already. No team will pay Albert asking price.

I'd take JT on IR over a healthy Pat White anyday. LOSS.

All it means is that there's someone on the Chiefs board they highly covet and they don't think he'll be there with the dolphins #2 pick of the 2nd rd.

Whomever this player is, the Chiefs are making him a deal breaker. Chiefs want him pretty badly.

Then they should take him with their 2nd

Out of the whole deal, the long term contract bothers me the most. If this deal goes thru, I hope there's some contract language that protects the Dolphins

Dolphins must also have a player they want pretty badly with the first pick of the 2nd rd. Also, could be Jeff Ireland isn't willing to give more than a 3rd rd pick to rent an often injured LT for 2-3 seasons.

See Smiley/Grove, both came with often injured tags, both were out of Miami in 2-3 seasons if that.

We are not taking a tackle with our 12 Pick, no way, no how. Ross will not be booed at his big Party tonite.

chiefs want that high second rd pick for a qb is the info here on kc radio

The Chiefs are in BIG trouble with Albert and first round pick. They need to give up and loose. Simple as that.

do not trade up for joekel, price way to high

who u thinking bobby? eeifert?

cocoajoe,

Albert's often injured history highly suggests he's a 2-3yr rental. Remember Smiley/Grove?

Therefore, even negotiating a contract with Albert would be extremely tedious. Reports we had a money agreement with Albert, has since been proven totally false.

in fairness albert is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better than smiley or grove

I totaly agree Draft a tight end, i will almost bet thats where they are going with the first pick.

kc takes fisher it means they will keep albert also and play fisher at rt

Don't blink, Ireland! Don't!

Hold your ground and don't wet your pants in desperation. We would be doing KC a favor by taking Albert off their plate.

Dusty,

I believe the Chiefs want our 1st 2nd rd'er to grab Barkley. if there or EJ Emmanuel if there. But Rumors are the Eagles may take Emmanuel 1st rd.

DUSTY BOTOMS, I WILL CALL YOU 'CINDY' FROM NOW ON.

Dusty,

Im talking injury history. Stop trying to change the subject. LOL...

What does a second round pick 4 years ago have to do with today?

Yesterday's Gone 4Ever!

That and his attitude. This guy sure don't sound like a Philbin guy.

I can't speak for Ireland or his needs but these are the Players that I know and that I like in this Draft: Jonathan Cooper(elite), Dee Milliner, Damontre Moore, Kenny Vaccaro, Steadman Bailey, DeAndre Hopkins. We get 1 or 2 of those and I'll be very happy.

kc would be dumb enough to take barkley in second. think u may be right about emmanuel to eagles. he kinda gave it away like austin did about jets taking him

dusty,

Usually when a player is having injury problems early in their careers, it doesn't get better as their body gets older.

For whatever reason or the other, some guys bodies just cant take the same rigors as other guys bodies. It has nothing to do with who's better than who.

When youre injury prone it gets worse over time, never better. Albert's body seems to object to the 16 game rigors of an nfl season. It's just that simple.

I see him as a 3yr rental at best before his body begins to completely fall apart.

id be happy with warmack,millner, or even eeifert.

LISTEN...

1. Chiefs wants to get 2nd pick for Albert (abuse Miami).
2. Draft Fisher, let him play right tackle first year, then second year move him to left tackle, get a new right tackle and kick Albert.

Lets get out of this. No winning situation for Miami.

yeah yesterday i would say 3 years also, but 3 very good ones and we better find a lt if it isnt him and dont say martin. thill gonna get killed

wow is dez bryant an idiot

Enjoy the first night of the draft fellas. If Ireland can't trade up for the LT it'll be Eiffert or Cooper at 12. Watch.

I'm out until much later....

Yesterday's Gone 4Ever, I agree with what you say about Albert. I can't believe we may trade for him. 4th rounder is as high as I would give for him. We need our first 5 picks in 3 rounds to fill the numerous holes we have at CD, FS, RB, RDE.

Don't think the Chiefs are going to use the 1st pick of the draft to take someone to play RT - Whether anybody realizes this or not Chiefs are really up against it - they will play Fischer at LT and pay Albert 9.8 million to play RT - not to mention Albert refuses to play RT - don't think so - sounds like Miami is holding the cards here and if they sit tight they will get Albert for a 3rd or 2nd next year.

Posted by: dusty bottoms | April 25, 2013 at 05:14 PM

Exactly why I keep telling deaf ears here a trade up for Joeckel makes sense. He's the only LT I would trade as high as the 3 spot to get, if still available.

With Albert, its highly likely we're talking LT all over again in 2-3 seasons. Often injured!

Only drawback vs Fisher is his small school but whoever has watched him knows he has great athleticism and strength. Can either play R or L with = effectiveness.

...I have been a Brendan Albert guy since the rumors started flying. Giving up 2 second round picks for him is a bit much. I wouldn't do it..Nor do I think Ireland will. It seems like we are bidding against ourselves here. Perhaps there are other teams interested that we don't know about. The idea of Albert coming here in my mind was with the price tag of whatever contract we could workout..And a second round pick.

..The issue is..The longer we wait. How will the order of the draft be to our detriment, if at all? It seems like we are in the drivers seat with this trade. But what if all the tackles come off the board and we are not a team that has selected one? does the leverage switch to the Chiefs? Or do we play the game and hope that the Chiefs take Fisher. And gamble that Fisher falls to a spot where the trade down isn't so far? Is it responsible to assume the Jags would pass on Joeckel? The Raiders? The Eagles? Could Joeckel fall all the way to 7..That would be the best case scenario for us in a trade up situation. Unlikely, but plausible.

It is a chess game now. Try and figure out what move the opponent will make before he makes it. Then strike.

..@ 5:21 If the Chiefs take Fisher, do we gamble on Joeckel is what I meant to say.

Hmmm, DD, he's another Martin imo.

Yeah, but Joeckel has proven himself against elite pro caliber pass rushers season in and season out.

Fisher hadn't seen his first pro caliber pass rusher until the Senior Bowl. Yes, he did well, but that was only one week. Joeckel has consistently done it for far more than just one week at the Senior Bowl.

Joeckel is far more proven than Fisher. Nothing against Fisher. Joeckel has the tape against pro bowl caliber pass rushers to prove he's worthy of being drafted where he'll be drafted.

Not jus one week at the Senior Bowl like Fisher. Based on one week at the Senior Bowl, Fisher could be great, very good, or even bust.

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