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Concerns about Lance Louis, Jonathan Martin

Ryan Tannehill is an optimistic guy. He thinks everything is going to work out with his running backs, his wide receivers, his tight ends, and his offensive line.

That's a good attitude to have because a football season is a roller coaster ride and players rise and fall, so keeping a bright outlook is good. But right now the offensive line is at a low point rather than a high point so the starting quarterback seems to be stretching credibility when he says the guys charged with protecting him are doing fine.

"I think they’re doing a great job, like I said there’s a couple guys banged up," Tannehill said. "There shifting around, a couple new faces bumping in while John’s (Jerry) out, moving Mike (Pouncey) over to guard a little bit, put (Josh) Samuda in at guard as well. They’ve done a good job at handling adversity, handling the change and just preparing for whatever is going to happen, you never know what’s going to happen."

Well, unless the line gets its act together what's going to happen is that Tannehill is going to get hit this year. A lot.

To wit:

On Wednesday, the offensive line added a new twist to the guard search with Nate Garner getting first-team snaps at right guard.

Suddenly, the experiment with Josh Samuda at guard (he's also worked at center) was pushed to a back burner. And the experiment of moving Mike Pouncey from center to guard (which I dislike) was delayed. And the experiment of moving Richie Incognito from left guard to right guard was similarly delayed.

The interesting thing in all this?

The Dolphins signed Lance Louis this offseason to compete with John Jerry for the starting job. The man is in his fifth season. He has satarted 28 career games including 24 the past two years.

So why hasn't he been at least an option to replace the injured Jerry?

The problem isn't that he wasn't the first option. The problem is the Dolphins have gone through four other options -- Incognito, Pouncey, Samuda and now Garner -- and Louis still hasn't budged from the second unit.

I know the thought might be he's still getting back from his 2012 knee surgery. Well, then how is it he's on second team? How is it he's taking all his reps and hasn't seemed limited physically in any way?

The Dolphins have moved four guys from different positions, including center and tackle to right guard but the right guard signed to be the backup to John Jerry hasn't been able to step in and fill that role.


And, by the way, it's not good for Louis if he's not one of the options because that shows limited value to the team. The Dolphins only spent $100,000 in guaranteed money on Louis this offseason so he has to show strong and become a starting option when injuries arise because he'll be very easy to cut at the end of this month otherwise.

So there's that.

And then this:

The questioin throughout training camp has been whether Olivier Vernon has suddenly blossomed to the point he was often beating left tackle Jonathan Martin for sacks. Or ... was Martin simply struggling?

Well, during Wednesday's practice, rookie Dion Jordan got a shot at matching up against Martin. And he had two sacks.

That's great news for Jordan as it was previously for Vernon. But that's a poor reflection on Martin, the team's starting LT.

If a second-year player and a rookie are looking exceedingly good against him in training camp, how's he going to survive the regular season?

Tannehill seems optimistic about all this. We'll see if he can remain that way.


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78 u so naive.

I disagree with you guys. I really don't have a problem with Mando's negativity. Maybe it's annoying at times, but you also need to consider Miami is in a decades long downhill spiral. It's hard to be optimistic when you rarely see true improvement. Not saying this year isn't different (sure feels different to me). Not saying there aren't bright spots in every Season (Cameron Wake comes to mind). But if the reporters in Miami want to take a "I'll have to see it to believe it" philosophy with this team, they are probably well-intentioned.

As fans, we have a different job. We can offer optimism, that's our team. These guys are being paid to offer their opinions, and if the team is slumping (not sure what else you call our recent history) then it makes sense those opinions will trend negative.

Craig M....

I think Wallace will be fine...

you don't waste (risk) prime talent this early i camp...there are enough freak accidents around the league....lets just get to SEP...with the majority of our 53 (and ALL play makers in tact.....

Who cares if Mando writes a postive or negative posts you girls, its like your wanting Mando to be blind homers such as yourselfs, jesus! he has to be objective at times

Posted by: Craig M | August 01, 2013 at 11:13 AM

Sorry to get sidetracked gentlemen. But Craig he does that all of the time. You guys were the only ones in here so you guys are the only ones who have a problem with him. Same today if it's only Kris and I. He will say the same thing, over and over and over. LOL He has to change up his games because they're too obvious. He needs to retool his act.

I agree with Kris, looks to me like Miami's doing the rope-a-dope like the Skins last year with RG3. He didn't run once during Pre-Season, then all of a sudden Week 1, the run-and-gun shows it's face. I think we don't want to show too much with Wallace, and then turn him loose when the Season starts (can't wait to see him take a slant to the House a la Jerry Rice)!!

I just hope Philbin has T-Henne on a relatively short leash. If its 1-4 at the bye week he has to seriously look at switching to Moore. And that wouldnt mean he's a bust....just that he could use more time watching.

Hahaha good one 2 watt! Exactly what I said, the opposite. Because I know you all to well so that makes me naive. Great character bro. Some of the other characters in here make me laugh from time to time. That irelands army has some good ones too. I wish these guys would take credit for their work when they post under their normal human being personas.


Is you job to create the news or report it?

Every NFL team gives key back up players a look on their 1st unit to see how they compete against the ones. Yes, Jerry's injury accelerated this; however, even if Jerry was healthy, players would be given a look at different positions. This is called position flexibility and helps the team determine which players to keep when the final cuts occur.

Have you ever recovered from an ACL injury and played pro football? Louis will be given a shot with the ones when his knee is healthy enough to do so, probably towards the end of camp.

The o-line will not be a strength, but it will not be a catastrophe, barring future injuries, and has decent depth. At worst, Martin will be a sub-par LT, however good OCs know how to game plan around this i.e. screens, draws, roll-outs, TE or RB help with blocking, etc. The LG is set with Incognito, a border-line pro-bowl talent. C is set with Pouncey, a pro-bowl talent. RG will be average with upside if Jerry is healthy and has decent depth with Lance and possibly Garner. RT is set with Clabo, an above average talent.

In other words, the sky is not falling. The o-line will be fine, with a little game planning to help to the LT position. The rest of the team is looking really good.

dc, slants r all timing, they ain't doin it in practice,
maybe in the parking lot after they get off the team bus in clev. they'll practice it b4 k/o..lol

I agree with you on Louis, Mando. He should be competing for at least a looksee as a starter.

I attended the scrimmage. I only watched him one play. Terrible. Didn't look again. He's not making this team because I don't think he fits the zone blocking scheme.

Moore sucks. Devlin is better!

Rick...I disagree...he spent all of last season gaining experience...you dont pull him to watch this season if he has troubles...you let him play through them...if he cant play through them...its back to the drawing board...


that is my hope....and even when the SKINS were losing in the early part of the season...they were still good for 28 points a game.....

they clearly had most defense's on thier heels.....

Frank, Lance Louis' contract is for 1.6 million if he makes the team and is active on certain game days.

The only guaranteed part is 100k if he gets cut before the season starts.

Craig, to me this thing screams upper body injury to me with Wallace. Doesn't seem to be anything serious and I'm glad his wheels are fine.

Good to have some good posters in here today ACTUALLY talking intelligently about football.

Good points from DC, Kris and Phins78 about Wallace. Kris, I agree I think he'll be just fine and DC, good point about not showing too much too soon. I do worry about Tannehill and Wallace getting on the same page but Tannehill's a smart QB, that is good at make adjustments and I think they'll be fine.

If this is the House of Queens or whatever nimrod is calling it these days, then I'm glad to be a part of it, rather than the juvenille banter that tries to disguise itself as blog talk.

there i go again to me,,,,to me,,,,frick I need coffee.

Smiley, Jake Grove, Sean Murphy, Colombo, Jake Long instead of Matt Ryan, John Jerry ... Yeah, you guys are right, why should anyone question what the Dolphins are doing on the offensive line. They always get it right in the end.

Idiots on here, geez.

I'll say it again, I think it's a ridiculous comment to think the 'Phins would cut Louis because he's not making a lot of money. Those are the guys you want on the team. If he's not starting, he's a good depth guy. When I think of some of the clowns we've had playing on the OL the last few years, this guy is head and shoulders above most of them.

FLPD, you kidding me with your comment about Louis not making the team because 'he doesn't fit their blocking scheme'. If that was the case then why would they have signed him in the first place?


who said the Dolphins always get the OL right in the end? Care to share?


also....to clarify....my thoughts are similar to the post @ 11:36...just not quite as extreme...

I think some balance will do this site some good....regardless of what Armando post...the negative post will find their way onto the site...as well they should...there should be room for ALL sides to state their case....

I just think the Author for FIN in DEPTH could find a more positve piece from time to time.....i love objectvity....and Some of Armando's objective piece's are among the best FINS news that I have read....

Less artices on 20th rd draft pics with good attitude who WON'T make the tem (Aaron "Marine Corp).....

and more articles about playes we care about.....

hat all i am saying....

As I said before - if they weren't getting sacks you'd be bitchin about the DL when they do get sacks you complain about the OL. If we do in fact have a top 3 front seven what's the problem? They are all pros and sometimes the D wins and sometime the O wins.

Your starting to sound a little hysterical Mando!!!

And I must have missed it. Are the Dolphins the only team that makes mistakes on the OL? Gabe Carimini ring a bell with you? How about Jason Smith?

Miami Herald - Please get a Dolphins fan to report on the Dolphins.

Maybe Mando should provide a little history here. You know how Martin did vs Jordan since they probably played each other in college. That might be interesting...

Phins 78, its a good thing you arent a betting guy or you;d be stone broke! LMAO!

D.C. at 11:29. Fair enough and good counter to our points.

If the O-line is not above averaqe this year, then neither will the run game, or the deep threat which takes Wallace out of the picture, Tanne can mve out of the pocket and throw,,but this is not going to win games, someone has to step up in the front..

It all starts this weekend. FINALLY! We've been anticipating, talking, worrying. Now we can get some data. Yeah, yeah, Preseason means nothing, I know. I just want to SEE these guys on the field in action. 1/2 this team is new, not even sure who took what number. Need these first few weeks to get acclimated so I can identify players by their numbers.

Craig, it's dumb to assume everyone the Dolphins sign fit them. Year after year after year they've signed players that didn't fit and didn't work out and even got cut in the preseason.

If the Dolphins didn't think Chad Johnson didn't fit the culture, why'd they sign him in the first place?

If the Dolphins didn't think Marc Colombo would be a good fit, why did they sign him in the first place?

If the Dolphins didn't like Legadu Naane dropping passes why'd they sign him in the first place?

If Artis Hicks wasn't going to be healthy why'd they sign him in the first place?

Are you for real? Your deductive thinking is a little blinded by your fandom. Teams make mistakes. The Dolphins history is they make more than most.


Let's step back for a second. What's Armando's goal for this blog? would you agree it's to create discussion and debate and generate traffic? Mission accomplished. If it was all positive, all the time, we'd all be standing around patitng each other on the back with nothing to say. He does it to stir the pot and to try and get under people's skin. It's like the news. Bad news attracts viewers and creates discussion. Very rarely does good news sell. Same case here.

Well said Fin Fan Buck @ 11:36. Idk if he has to be so negative to drum up blog hits or what.

I have decided that riding a daily roller coaster ride with Armando or anyone else in the media is wasted time. Miami, like several other NFL franchises in camp, lacks compelling stories. It's clear the media's job is to bring compelling news... so there's that....
I choose to look at it like this... we are not going to know a damned thing about this offensive line until 2 or 3 games into the preseason. If Miami is faltering desperately at the LT or guard position by the time we play Tampa on August the 24th... There will be sufficient reason to be concerned.
Here is WHY I choose to look at this subject (along with several others like injuries)... These O-linemen face the same Defensive line players EVERY DAMNED DAY... day in.... and day out. I would say Miami has one of the best D-lines in the NFL. If those guys face the o-line THAT MUCH... advantage goes to the D-line. They are going to have the number of every player on the O-line, they are going to know weakness and strength. Yes, the O-line should get the same info on the D, But it is a different skill set. It becomes a defensive skill set when you have DE's hammering the edge over and again with speed rushes.

When Miami has faced a few OTHER defensive lines, and if they have looked bad. I'll get on Armando's roller coaster.... Until then I think I'll stay here in the Beer Garden and watch the Circus practice for they're big season...

People freaked out a bit last year when we werent running the ball at all in camps...the coaching staff had a plan...and it turned out okay...I feel the same with Hartline and Wallace...they know what they got there...its August 1st...5 pre-season games to go...no rush to throw those guys out there just yet...

Jack! be nimble, Jack! be quick, Jack can you please STFU and eat a d i c k! LOL


So what you're saying is, the Dolphins have a guy in Louis who doesn't fit what they want to do on the OL. And you know that how? Cause you've gone to a couple of practices, where the guys getting over a serious injury. Great....glad we've got you here.

You're already writing the guy off and he hasn't even played a down for us yet. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Will you still be here when he's starting for us in November? I'll look for you.

Craig, Armando did not say Louis makes little money. He said the guy got little guaranteed money.

When a player gets a small guarantee, he's easier to cut because the dead money it leaves on the salary cap is much lower.

The fact is Louis is going to make I think 2,000,000 this year. If only 100,000 is guaranteed it absolutely makes him a prime target to be cut if he's not performing up to par with other guys.

Problem why I was upset that Ireland moved up and sacrificed a pick to get Dion J at #3 overall is that Jordan had only about 4 sacks in the year spending more than 50% of the time in pass coverage and I did not know what he could be capable of playing strictly DE. Apparently, Ireland knew.

Fin Fan Buck,

No the sky isnt falling. Its already fallen and the incompetent FO cant get up at all. Even the President of the team quit 3 days before the season. The fans hate the owner and the GM. The team is in dissaray and have begun a desperate massive rebuild thats got more holes then swiss cheese.

If you were a ball player would you ever want to talk to Mr. All-negative-all-the-time? I would never let him interview me, and I would instruct all the rookies to stay away from him. If I were Ross, I would send a letter to the Herald and ask them to find a competent person to cover the team, and let them know that Mr. All-negative-all-the-time isn't welcome at the facility.

yeah,7-9 is ok.

Insecurity(Fear) Breeds trolls.(not mine, somebody here said it not in these words but recently)

Craig, you'll look for me on a blog?

I'm reaaaallly nervous now.

FLPD with all due respect Craig is right on the money.

You're comparing skill positions to line play when you name those players. Colombo being the exception.

In Colombo's case he fit the scheme perfectly but was old and slow. Sporano being the idiot he is wanted him because he thought he was getting the guy from 5 years before. But it wasn't a scheme issue because we had a power run attack and that is Colombos specialty.

Now Craigs right because Philbin and Sherman identified a need at RG for a guy who can pull and is quick on his feet. That's Lance Louis who was great pulling for the Bears. His skill set will match up perfectly with what the Dolphins are trying to do. They wouldn't have identified him otherwise.

I hear what you're saying, they have signed guys who didn't work out but it wasn't because of scheme, it was because of talent imo.

And to add on, Colombo was great in run blocking but god awful as a pass blocker. They should have known that before signing him.

Craig M..

I would agree...


Armando has guys (or himself) to drum up hits aytime he wants...

want to get some riled up in here...bring in YG to BASH Marino for a page or two...

That's not working....create a fake name to talk RYAN OVER LONG....

cna't get any hits that way....

Talk about Sanchez...and his 2 AFC Championship game appearnces....

mot working...

insuly ANY poster that stumbles in here and makes a valid football post or point...take the OPPOSITE...just because.....

that doesn't work....

Talk about race/religion/politics.....or peoples mom's....

Armando and STAFF hav a game plan for hits...believe me....we have ALL witnessed it....

7-9 would be good with all these new players. I dont see that happening with the tough early schedule.

Im good Truth...I swallowed a big june bug on my way end...thanks for the offer though...

Great post at 11:50 its in the breeze. Good read.

***on my way IN***

nj. the 7 wont come 'til it's 2 late as always.
jan. in the bahamas again.

Heck, the Phins players start reserving their hotels in November.

the confetti has been piling ^ since '73.

Mando, everytime you write I get how much you hate the phins. Louis had ACL surgery 9 months ago and he did get some reps at RG with the first team last night. get a clue

Great idea to judge our o-line when they haven't even played a single preseason game. Wow. I guess Mando will write anything to get a few hits. Greed!

The AccuWeather forecast is next.

Is it so easy to manipulate the insecure Ones or what?


I don't consider Louis making $2 million a lot of money, do you? He suggests they'll cut him....and then what? We'll be playing with some stiff on the line for the rest of the year because Jerry's hurt again or Thomas isn't ready. Louis is a GREAT add for this team. We'll see if injuries keep him out or not.

Posted by: Fire Armando | August 01, 2013 at 11:56 AM

Hahahaha a tad harsh. But I wanted to point this out and ask everyone if they remember. When Parcells came to the team he set new rules regarding the media because of the negative tone and distractions in south Florida. There was a club house mentality with reporters hanging with players and players dishing dirt about the team and their teammates.

I remember before Parcells came we used to get stories from "inside sources" regarding personal matters that were going on behind locked doors. It was like animal house. Parcells kicked them out and they were all standing across the street waiting for any kind of news.

Parcells drove out and up to the opposite curb where they were all standing, rolled down his window, they all clamored, and he said, "no news today gentlemen" and rolled his window up with a smirk as he drove away. The next day the reporters started a negativity campaign against Parcells and the Dolphins that was hilarious. It was so obvious their feelings were hurt and they felt left out. But all of the sudden the stories changed from 'he said/she said' to this is what I think is happening.

The Dolphins went 11-5 that year and they all fell in love with the team. That's all it takes, just win. The media will love you , fans will be happy, everyones making money. Here's to hoping for the best.

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