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The lesser known DE is having a big camp

You know Cameron Wake. He's one of the NFL's top 100 players as selected by his peers.

You know Dion Jordan. He was the player the Dolphins boldly moved up in the draft to take at No. 3 overall and has already been likened to Jason Taylor and Aldon Smith.

You know Olivier Vernon. Much has been written about his fine start to this training camp and his potential to be a starter this season.

You should know Derrick Shelby.

He's having a fine camp. He had a sack in the scrimmage. He had a sack in the preseason-opener against Dallas. Coaches love him.

“Derrick is a very sound football player," coach Joe Philbin said. "He is going to do it exactly the way [assistants] Kacy Rodgers, Charlie Bullen and Kevin Coyle want it done. I love him because he keeps his shoulder pads square. He gives effort. He is in the right spots when he is supposed to be. He knows what gap he has. He’s not jumping around things. He plays through people. He’s doing a nice job."

Shelby made the team last season as a rookie that took well to coaching and rarely made mistakes. This camp, he's trying to make the jump to actually making plays.

And so far, so good.

"I see more production out of Derrick, stating the other night," defensive coordinator Kevin Coyle said. " He’s always a guy that you can count on the be in the right place, he’s very dependable, yet we saw that playmaking ability the other night and we’ve seen it throughout training camp.  He’s been difficult to block, he’s gotten more pressure on the quarterback, he’s been the guy that we feel very pleased with at this point in camp and he’s made a lot of progress."

As the Dolphins added talent at defensive end in the draft -- obviously with Jordan -- the idea of keeping Shelby seemed like something of a luxury. But Shelby so far has earned his spot. He is so far entrenched on the second team defense.

And because he's 280 pounds, he seems more able to hold the point on early run downs aside from his growing pass rush skills.

In other words, Shelby is finding a good niche on the team. And his prospects of staying on the team seem very, very good.

[Injury update: FB Jorvorskie Lane, who missed practice Wednesday with an unkown injury, is expected to play against the Jaguars Friday. The Dolphins are still finalizing decisions on playing Lamar Miller (ankle) and Mike Wallace (groin). Jared Odrick (groin), Brian Hartline (calf) and Olivier Vernon (groin), all of whom missed the preseason-opener, are expected to play. Dannell Ellerbe, who missed the preseason opener, is expected to play. Randy Starks (knee) and John Jerry (knee) are definitely out.]

[Update: Miller, who has been nursing the tender ankle the last two practices, is expected to play barring a last minute complication ... CB Jamar Taylor (hernia recovery) is not expected to play.]

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Comments

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damit....

Craig M...see the as blog...for your answer...

Nice shout out for Shelby Armando....

Jordan had some nice pressure as well during the game...another BRIGHT spot...imo...

Craig M...

from the last blog...

Agree on all...

EXCEPT....fasano (no caps for him)....

that guy is NOT average...he sucks...imo...can't stand his play on the feild...

Kris (from the last blog),


That's fine to compare QBs, but was there anyone putting any stock in the comparison after ONE season? If that was the case then we'd all have said Eli Manning was the lesser of the three QBs. Would anyone say that today?
Posted by: Craig M | August 08, 2013 at 12:25 PM

When we talk about the QB class of 83....

don't we talk about the QB class of 83...

Marino
Kelly
Elway
Obrien


All had differnt and contrasting styles....but they are forever linked....with Elway sitting @ the top....

QB class of 04...

Rivers
Manning
Rothesburger

Eli and Big Ben in an Arms race for SB rings....

they will forever be compared as well...

Sorry Craig M....QBs are compared to draftmates FIRST...and all time GREATS o bust thereafter....

Posted by: Kris | August 08, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Yes they are compared but only after a minimum of 5 years in the league. Nobody can give an accurate assessment after 1 year. Hell, Eli Manning looked like a bust his first 3 years in the league. Tannehill had a better rookie season.

Marino was the only guy that had good numbers in his first year out of the 83' class. Kris, you are proving the very point which you are trying to disprove.

Kris,

Agreed on Fasano. I guess I was over-rating him.

Jesus....Miller is hurt already. How is that possible? Guy was in on three plays the other night. I just have a sense that this is going to be the story on this guy. I sure hope I'm worng, 'cause I like the talent.

Craig M....


O actually think that Eli was unfairly burdened with the fact that his last name was Manning...but his first name wasn't Peyton....

Even now...wth 2 SB rings....he has to take a back seat to Big Bro....

So Eli's greatest fault is being born 2nd....

Kris, Luck was a better prospect than all those QBs you mentioned tho. Guy is just not normal. He encouraged Jim Irsay to throw an entire season and jettison possibly the greatest QB of the generation. Nobody would've done that for any of the other QBs, all fine QBs in their own right.

Eli > Peyton at least in money time. No way anyone can dispute that. Eli is the most cold blodded assassin in the NFL bar none. Think of some of the road playoff games that guy won and beating the endefeated Patriots??? Stuff of legend.

Woodshed@12:33pm,

That's EXACTLY my point to Kris. How can you judge a QB class after one year? If RGIII continues to get injured and is out of the league in 4 years, so we still say he was the second best QB in the draft. Unlikely. All this stuff still has a long way to go.

I like Tannehill, and I don't know what the other options were at 8. Would everyone not yelled at Ireland if he'd taken Russell Wilson at 8. It would have been crazy. I LOVE that kid but nobody would have done. Teams passed on him over and over again. Turns out he was a true talent but again his surrounding cast was a Hell of a lot better than what Tannehill played with last year. There's no denying that fact.

When we played the Colts, Andrew Luck reminded me a lot of Ben Roethlisberger. Mainly because he is tough to bring down and his eyes are always downfield no matter how much pocket pressure he receives. I don't think he has the arm strength Ben has but he is more mobile.

Mark,

I'll take Eli over Peyton too. I don't care what the stats say and what the numbers are, Eli in the clutch has a FAR better record than Peyton. Peyton's shown repeatedly that he's not a good cold weather QB and I believe his playoff record is sub-500.

Guys can have Peyton all day if they like but I'll take the kid who really does it when it counts.

Woodshed,

Great that Ben has a couple of Super Bowl rings but the team won those Super Bowls, DESPITE Ben. Big Ben gets too much credit in my eyes. I'm not sure how many rings Luck will end up with but I expect him to have had the better career when it's all said and done. Better athlete and I believe a better leader too.

We have 4 weeks for the staff to come up with a O-Line combo that works...without that, it wouldn't matter if Superman was QB....

GO Philbin...get it done. Go Fins!!!

Craig M....

imo....it was in Ireland's best interest to take Mallett the year before....

hat is what he could have done....

Posted by: Craig M | August 08, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Craig M,

While I can understand your position, I think I would rather have Peyton. Peyton carries his teams to the playoffs. Eli just seems like he is along for the ride.

I think if you put Peyton at QB on those Giants teams, they still in the SB. The only difference would be less clutch plays by Peyton than Eli. Only because they win by a larger margin.

Eli wouldn't have taken many of those Colts teams into the playoffs. JMHO

Woodshed...

you take my comments out of CONTEXT....Craig M was talking about who we should compare our QB to....I simply gave examples of how you FIRST compare QBs to their respctive draftmates....and then LATER to all-time greats....

I think it is fair to hold Tanne to the standards of his contemporaries....I don't understand why you guys thin that is UNFAIR....

Also...again....I am not writing the book on Tanne....I am merely commenting on what I saw Sunday night....it was AWFUL to say the least....

Why do we have to "kID GLOVE" Tanne....

if he stunk it up....lets say it....and hope he does better next outing...

Kris,

Yet another thing you and I disagree on. It's fine....just seems like that's always how it's going to be. No harm in that.

Posted by: Craig M | August 08, 2013 at 12:46 PM

I think it is too early to tell who is better Ben or Luck. I was just making a style comparison.

I do think that Luck is quicker and has more savvy. He sets a better example for teammates than the rapist, so yeah I can buy him being the better leader of the two.

Who drafted Ja'varius Kinsey? He is one to watch.

Lets call this what this is...


We're all hoping that
several years from now...

RYAN TANNEHILL

will be mentioned in the same conversation with

ANDREW LUCK
RG III
and COLIN KAEPERNICK
.
.
.
.

Good post on Shelby Mando. The team is going to have a lot of quality depth on the d-line. Wake, Starks, Solia, and Vernon as the starters. Jordan, Odrick, Martin/Randall, and Shelby as the backups.

3 + outs on o = d rotation.

Incorrect.

Kris,

If Tannehill had gone out and gone 5-5 for 85 yards would you be ready to say he's turned the corner? I don't think you should. Subsequently, I don't think there's enough of a sample there ot say he 'stunk' and have all these red flags come on. It's too small a sample.

I keep going back to the point I've made TWICE now....there were games he started very poorly last year but came around and actually had good games. We have no clue what the rest of the game would have looked like. Did he look good in the game Sunday? Of course not. But that's all we can say at this point. To draw any further conclusions from that is going too far.

debating with Kris is like wiping your butt with wax paper, a waste of time. i try not to comment, but time and again i am baffled how someone can be that dumb.

Craig, agreed 100% on Eli. I mean, save but for one season, how closely would Peyton's career followed that of our Dan Marino? Peyton is also done in my opinion. he will be saved by playing in a pisspoor division but when the money is on the line again, he will fall flat - again as he did in every opportunity against good teams last year save for the Ravens game near the end of the year.

But as far as ben goes, I disagree. The first one smelled of Tm brady's first ring where the team didn't ask him to doa thing but that 2nd one was all on him.

Posted by: Kris | August 08, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Ok. So your point is Tannehill looked bad Sunday night. Well I honestly can't say he impressed me but its preseason, first game. I can't say he looks like a terrible pick at #8 because his play was better than average last year for rookie QB last year. 5 passes in preseason isn't a large enough sample size to say he isn't progressing or he is regressing. He also didn't play with his starting WRs and the Oline isn't settled so there is that to consider.

The RG3,Luck,Wilson, Tannehill debate will not be solved this preseason or this regular season for that matter. It just takes a larger sample size than that.

Last year, everyone talked about how Cam Newton was such a phenom for a rookie and what RG3 was able to do just puts him to shame. Cam didn't show any improvement this year. It just takes time to answer the question that's all.

Craig M....

I might not say he turned the corner...but I would say I amm highly enourged by what I saw out of Tanne...had that been the case....

So since it went about as bad as it could have for him....I am a bit discouraged to say the least....

and for the record on your slow start point....

We don't have time to be down 10 or 14 points every game because Tanne is a slow starter...its bad for morale...and its terrible for the D....Tanne needs to bring his "A" game from the first kick-off to the last wind-sprint in practice....that's what leaders do....

Mark,

Totally agree on Peyton. They'll make the playoffs again (assuming he stays healthy) because of the weak division they play in. When the chips are down and the weather turns cold, he'll get beaten by a team like Houston or Baltimore.

Only point I was making on Big Ben is that I think when it's all said and done, Luck will have better numbers and a better career. That's just how I see it.

Ticket sales have come to a grinding halt.

a qb's classmates have no bearing on anything. it is nothing they can have any control over.

2011 was a horrible draft class, to judge Dalton compared to the rest of those losers gives him a huge advanatege over comparing Tannehill to Luck and RG3. they are all of the same era.

idiot kris's idea that you compare them by draft class first is senseless and idiotic. no suprise there.

ultimately you judge them by their performance over time, in whatever time they played

Looks like YG woke up from his drunken stupor (1:05)....

no "sweet release" yet huh....

Good...i'm glad...each day you open your yes is another day you have to live your miserable exsistence...

I hope you make it another 20...heck...30 years....

You won't get another response....so feel free to cut and paste that to my "file"....and re-read as many times as necessary....

Tannehill is lucky Manziel wasnt at Texas A&M or he'd still be playin WR.

No bearing....

except that NFLN has done specials on QB classes...

BIG BEN has talked about being the "BEST" of his class....

ESPN is ALWAYS doing QB class comparisons...but your right....in MOMMY'S basement...they have no bearing...

ignorant much.....

Craig, yeah I think that's a safe bet on Luck v ben. But if Tannehill becomes as good as Ben and has the career he had minus the raping and pillaging, I will be whipping my cokk out in celebration down bay Street in broad daylight.

wowee for you....

you got two (3 counting this)....

your keyboard is probably white as snow by now...

congrats...

Personally I could care less about how a Qb does v his class, I care about how he does compared to the league. And Tannehill was about the 22nd-23rd best which isn't good enough. Has to get to about #12 for this to be considered a threat.

Back to relevant posters....

as opposed to one fool that has turned himself into a joke.....

Woodshed @ 1:08....

they all have problems...no situation is perfect....

The ONLY thing that matters is what you do with what you have....

Mark...

they are NOT mutually exclusive....

If Tanne was best in his class (especially that class)...we would ALL be jumping up and down and convinced we had our QB for the next 10-15 years.....and how Ireland pulled the wool over everyone's eye....the STEAL of the draft we would call him....

But he's not...and he wasn't sharp Sunday either...and that is why we are having this conversation....

Fasano was an excellent blocker. He may be missed in the blocking dept.

IMO, there are 5 tiers of QB

1-Brady, P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees. Guys that can win games with lesser talent based on their own physical ability and knowing how to best utilize what they have to work with to score on the opposing team.

2-Eli Manning, Flacco, Ryan, Big Ben. Guys that play consistently average to good but flash the ability to play great when surrounded by talent.

3- Romo, Rivers, Schaub, Andy Dalton. Two types of 3rd tiers- guys who flash great play but play equally poor, particularly in critical situations. The other type is the guy that is consistently good with a good team and average with average talent ( they prove to neither greatly improve or detract from the team)

4- Kaepernick, Luck, RG3, Cam Newton- newer guys that have shown they will have a career that can put them into one of the above 3 categories, just not which one yet.

5-Everyone else- guys that play average to poor and can't be relied on to ever crack into the top 3 tiers.


We're all hoping that
several years from now...

RYAN TANNEHILL

will be mentioned in the same conversation with

ANDREW LUCK
RG III
and COLIN KAEPERNICK
.
.
.
.


Posted by: Cooz | August 08, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Right now, lets just hope Ryan Tannehill can become the Ken O'Brien(1983) of this draft class(2012).

O'Brien was always pretty solid, but never overly spectacular. Even beating Marino a few times.

Posted by: The Woodshed Gang | August 08, 2013 at 01:27 PM

I'll give credit where credit's due. This post was an outstanding qb analysis.....

Woodshed@1:27, that's a pretty good way to look at it.

Woodshed...

we can disagree on what names go where....

but definetly a blueprint for categorizing QBs....

My greatest fear is that Tannehill will land in this category throughout his career:

Courtesy of Woodshed;

3- Romo, Rivers, Schaub, Andy Dalton. Two types of 3rd tiers- guys who flash great play but play equally poor, particularly in critical situations. The other type is the guy that is consistently good with a good team and average with average talent ( they prove to neither greatly improve or detract from the team)

Tannehill is developing into another Chad Henne. A 2nd or 3rd string journeyman.

Woodshed, your entire 2nd tier are likely HOFers.

I was kind of thinking along the same lines @ 1:36...

but the names aren't important (imo)....to each their own....I do like the system tho...

Posted by: LOVE FAKING 17-0-IN-YUR-ASS! | | August 08, 2013 at 01:31 PM

Thank you sir! I take that as a huge complement coming from you.

Notice, I haven't put Tannehill in that list. I think he is in the upper echelon of the 5th tier. His play this season could move him up to 4th or to the bottom of the 5th. The bottom 5th tiers are basically starters with a team just looking for a suitable replacement because all hope is lost. I'd put Sanchez, Kolb, Henne into that area.

I do think its a little early to give Andy Dalton a ranking here. This begins his 3rd season. I would at least give him 3 full seasons before classifying him.

After he completes this season(3rd) then you can have a better idea which of these 3 tiers he's beginning to settle in. He's definitely nowhere near bust.

Thanks Kris

CCDeville - I beleive they addressed that in the draft.

Kris, yeah but one caveat is that if he was the best of a poor draft for example, what good would that do the team. I could care less what Luck, kaep, Mallett, Dalton, Wilson, and RG3 are doing. I only care about Tannehill and if he progresses in a logical manner and shows that he may be a QB worthy of our attention and fandom.

The reason I have Dalton in is because he perfectly fits my example of a solid guy on a solid team. He neither contributes greatly or detracts much. He has a great defense and an Alpha receiver and he uses them wisely. IMO, he will have a Schaub like career. Good individual numbers and consistently a winner (2 seasons, 2 playoff trips) but he doesn't have the physical tools to make the big plays that win against very good teams that the guys in the top 2 tiers have.


Posted by: The Woodshed Gang | August 08, 2013 at 01:39 PM

Right now, I would place Tannehill amongst the tier of "Not Ready To Be Ranked" yet. At this present stage, Tannehill still has to prove he isn't bust yet. After a 12td 13 int rookie season, he still needs to first prove he isn't bust.

Only reason for not declaring him bust with those rookie number is:

A. The very limited college starts
B. A very pedestrian 2012 receiving corp
C. A & B, plus he's stil a rookie


Posted by: The Woodshed Gang | August 08, 2013 at 01:46 PM

My present deal with Dalton is Cincinatti has surrounded him with very decent offensive weapons. However, historically it seem the Bengals have never consistently been a well grounded organization.

In the end, their organization seems to almost always find a way to "Bungle things, in Bengal land".

My tier ranking would be entirely different. For one, my top tier would consist of only multiple time Super Bowl winners.

n this day and age you may have a dozen different QB Super Bowl winners in a 15 year stretch. Winning the super bowl mints you as excellent but not on Mount Olympus in my opinion.

Mando,
I think Shelby makes the team. He's a big, fast, smart kid with a hard-hat & lunch pail mentality. A solid player. Can't have enough of those!

You can win with Dalton as your QB. He's a heady QB who doesn't make a lot of mistakes. That year, Dalton and Kaep were the two guys I was interested in for the Dolphins.

Dalton can consistnetly take you to the playoffs. After that it's a crapshoot. If Tannehill gets to Dalton's level I will be OK with that and I believe this is attainable.

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