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Patterson setback pushes Carroll to forefront

With Dimitri Patterson's on-going groin issues -- he hasn't practiced this week -- the Dolphins seem poised to once again rely on Nolan Carroll as a starting cornerback, this time against the pass-happy New Orleans Saints Monday night.

Now, this is not really about Carroll. We'll get to him in a few grafs.

This is mostly about Patterson.

He has suffered a setback of some sort.

I remind you that after injurying his groin against Cleveland in the season-opener, he told The Herald he would be fine and play the following week against Indianapolis.

And although Patterson didn't practice except on a limited basis that week, he did indeed work every day and was active for the game. The reason he didn't play, coach Joe Philbin said, was because coaches decided not to use him.

Then last week Patterson practiced on a limited basis on Tuesday and Wednesday (as he'd done the week before) but then sat out drills altogether on Thursday and Friday and was pronounced out for the Atlanta game two days prior to the game.

That's not improvement.

In fact, I am told the setback came at that Wednesday practice that forced him out the remainder of the week.

And, again, Patterson has not practiced this week. He has not practiced at all since that fateful Wednesday.

And, I remind you, the Dolphins brought in half-a-dozen cornerbacks for workouts on Monday, which obviously speaks to the idea they believe they might need help at that position in the coming weeks.

The picture painted here is that Miami's starting cornerback is dealing with an injury that has already cost him two games, is likely going to cost him Monday night's game, and there is uncertainty beyond that.

That leads to Carroll.

He had a wonderful game against Cleveland. He was less effective against Indianapolis. And he struggled mightily against Atlanta, although against one of the best receivers in the NFL.

I love Carroll as a No. 3 or No. 4 cornerback. I don't love him as a starter. Neither, by the way, do the Dolphins. (There's a reason they drafted two cornerbacks in the draft's early rounds last April).

But as Carroll's the best Miami has right now, the team is definitely supporting Carroll and talking him up.

"I think he’s more consistent," coach Joe Philbin said Wednesday. "Obviously he made that one real, real nice play on the ball in the first game. I think it was the first drive of the first game. He’s a competitive guy. He’s very, very competitive. He comes out and works hard every single day.

"He’s certainly gotten better. His transitions gotten better. His coverage ability has improved I like the way he plays the game. He competes. You can put your head at night into a pillow and know that guy is going to give you everything he’s got."

I get it. Nolan Carroll's a competitive competitor competing in a competition.

But how good is he?

ProFootballFocus.com rates Carroll the 46th best cornerback among the 102 it has graded. (Brent Grimes, by the way, is rated No. 2).

Carroll has allowed 11 receptions in 21 targets this year -- a 52.4 completion percentage. Opposing teams average 13.6 yards per completion against him. He has given up 76 YAC (yards after catch), which is a big deal this week as the Saints lead the NFL in YAC since 2006.

That's not terrible. That's middle of the road.

The interesting thing is that Carroll hasn't been targeted more. The Browns couldn't really go after anyone outside and instead worked the tight ends vs. linebackers and safeties. The Colts didn't go after him, opting instead to go at Grimes with poor results. The Falcons didn't chase Carroll for nearly three quarters until they seemed to discover him in the fourth quarter.

But my experience tells me this train normally gains momentum once it starts rolling. Once a team sort of discovers a perceived weakness in another team, the next team goes after that weakness a bit more, then a bit more, then a lot more unless that weakness is addressed and the tide is turned back.

Obviously the Dolphins don't have a lot of options for turning back the tide as long as Patterson remains injured and rookies Jamar Taylor and Will Davis continue to need more practice and honing.

So perhaps they can hide Carroll a bit by having Grimes shadow the other team's best receiver throughout the game. The Dolphins have considered this in the past and Philbin doesn't dismiss the possibility.

"We’ve done some of that, and we’ll do whatever we think is in the best interest of our defense as a whole to stop the opponent," he said. "We certainly aren’t opposed to doing that stuff."

Comments

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Sam I Am | September 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM

There is NO doubting this your missing the point! Robbie was CHEAP not STUPID, he was a business man and his business was in REAL TROUBLE in 1970. Coach George Wilson and the Dolphins were a 3-11 squad in those days and empty Stadiums were a problem given there was NO CBA guaranteeing Owners a League mandated profit sharing system (the one today keeping the Rooney's above water in Pitt.) An empty house meant serious financial loss (Payroll, Taxes ect..)

Robbie really went out on a limb when he hired Shula given there was alot of talk that he was in over his head in Baltimore given the talent he had with H.O.F. players when beaten by upstart Jets (AFL Franchise) in SB-3. That hire was about generating BUZZ around the team at the time there was NO TELLING how it would really go. It wasn't like he hired a LEGEND at the time, luck plays here part. Joe Thomas was a good G.M. and another Robbie let walk when he bolted for the deep pockets of then young S.F. Owner Eddie DeBartolo and Beathard wasn't hired to replace him he was his Pro Personnel/Scout Director from 71-77 who Robbie also allows to walk over money and who sticks it to Robbie in SB-17.

You can't state your case without recognizing these points as well. Hiring Shula to pull double duty as H.C./G.M. was a cost cutting move by Robbie which seriously hurt what he had put together. By the late 70's Robbie thinking Shula could walk on water making him a mint in the process being the more likely scenario here. You talk about what Robbie did but what if Eddie DeBartolo buys the Dolphins in 77 instead of the 49ers? You think our fortunes wouldn't have been different? Robbie got lucky hitting on the right team to run his F.O. and Coach but then over money proceeded to dismantle it in startling fashion!

I believe coyle wants carroll to allow short yardage and don't get beat. Don't gamble. Especially when they're no in the redzone. It's a bend but don't break style of coyle's defense. Carroll has been decent in the redzone and that's what matters. Carroll also hasn't given up any big plays either.

Carroll has been suitable.For having to start the last 2 games, he hasnt looked that bad. It could be a whole lot worse, especially since Matt Ryan had alot of time to throw last week. I wonder if Dmitri will see the field again this weak. Its sad how fragile he is, he could be a top 15 CB, but cant stay on the field.

THAT is the history of Dimitri Patterson Injured & not able to get into games.Get our rookies some game experience Please coaches.

Carroll did fine against Julio I thought. He didn't do great, but about as good as could be expected. 0 TD's for Julio. We won't be playing a WR as good as Julio the rest of the regular season.

Its more annoying that Patterson can't get back on the field. Like someone said he is like Danny Amendola. Good to very good when he plays,but he seems injury prone. Is he worth the 4.6 mil this year and the 5 next year? Time will tell. Maybe rest him until after the bye?

I would have been freaking out if I heard Carroll was the starter before the season started. He's looked good to me though, better than in the past. I think we'll be fine.

so basically Armando is trying to put down Carroll even though he explained that he hasn't been bad at all so far and hasn't even allowed a TD yet in coverage..........that makes tons of sense and actually Carroll did a VERY GOOD job on Reggie Wayne...FACTS.

What I want to know is why Carroll gets abused by fans so much? Watch the tape and he does a solid job many worse starting CB's around the league.

Actually, check that about a WR not as good as Julio the whole rest of the year. AJ Green is in the same class as him, that is the only one though. (I think they are both better than V-Jax)

MANDO YOU AND I NEED TO LEARN TO LIVE WTHOUT NEGATIVITY

In past years when there was a glimmer of progress the other foot always came crashing down, but it was always the result of some idiotic confluence of events:
- Long drive to the goal line by previous QB and then they call a BACKDOOR play and Ronnie Brown throws int in the end zone.
- Offense is playing well so let's start calling some BACKDOOR plays that ruin the rythm of the offense.
- etc

All that is over now. The team is ranked 7th in power rankings but other than Denver I don't know of an AFC team that would be favored against us.

This turnaround hs been sudden and it has taken me a couple of days to get over the shock and get back in here.

Joe Robbie was extravagant compared to cheapo Ross.

Jordan you seem to have your panties in a bunch for no good reason.

Mando isn't putting anyone down, especially when he says Carroll was "wonderful" against Cleveland and good against Indianapolis.

No one is "abusing" Carroll either. But if anyone thinks he's the answer then you simply don't know football. There is a reason he's a career backup. There's a reason he was a backup until Patterson got hurt. There is a reason the Dolphins drafted two CBs in the second and third round like Mando said.

Are you dumb?

What's with the posts above that seam to be of conversations taking place elsewhere ? Weird !!!

Carroll stinks and the Saints will expose him early and often next Monday

fin4life | September 26, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Excellent post and you hit the nail right on the head....did you also know that we lost the core of our back to back championship team to the new WFL because Robbie refused to pay them what they were worth. Joe Theismann was drafted in '71 by the Dolphins and Robbie insulted him with his offer so Theismann bolted to the CFL! Imagine how many more Championships woul have been won if not for Robbie being so short sighted.

Mando, just for sh*ts and giggles, where's Richard Marshall on the list (ahead of behind Carroll)? Also, the best way to help ALL your CBs is for the front 7 to create a pass rush. I blame them for Carroll's woes last week. You give Ryan all the time in the world in a comfortable pocket waiting for one of the best WR cores in the game to get open, even Richard Sherman would have problems.

Not saying Carroll is great. He's average (as his stats shows). But help him out by pressuring Brees and you'll see him do better.

1993 Dolphins, who had a league leading 9-2 record coming off of a Thanksgiving day away victory over the Super Bowl champion Dallas Cowboys in the snow only to be punished with five straight losses and missing the playoffs.
.

From the last blog, glen...who said for Tannehill to roll out everytime? I know I didn't. The trick is to keep the D guessing.

Also, the best way to help ALL your CBs is for the front 7 to create a pass rush. I blame them for Carroll's woes last week.

That sure makes sense to me.

I wonder what Julio-down-by-the-schoolyard's game average is in games where Ryan doesn't get sacked. Well over a hundred I'll bet.

I know, I know. We need whipping boys. Martin, Misi, Clemmons and Carroll seem to be the favorites. But you let any of those guys get injured this week and watch things go to hell in a handbasket. When Misi got hurt last week the run defense never recovered. I knom, you think it was Soleia.

Carroll has SPEED. And he has worked hard to improve his technique. Leave him alone until he loses a game for us.

We lost Csonka for 1.4 million arguably the best RB in the early 70's. Warfield for 900K also one of the best WR and Jim Kiick for 700K. 2 HOF's and 3 of the core players on a 3 consecutive SB team. Back to back SB winners......oh yea throw in a perfect season!

I get it. Nolan Carroll's a competitive competitor competing in a competition.

So where does that leave us on Salgueros playground should we make a recomendation or just pick a topic and argue as the NEW SCREENAMES DO

Hopefully we can get something out of Taylor soon. If he's practicing this week he should be available for a few snaps on monday.

Carroll is not the answer at cornerback that is true but is he good enough for us to win with that is the question. As of right now yes and if we get a decent pass rush we can continue to win with him. Now for the second question will teams pick on him? Fact Grimes is rated number 2 cornerback so any cornerback we put back there will be the target of choice. As Don Shula use to say "You win with what you have." He may not be mister right but he is good enough to be mister right now.

Carrol has not hurt the Dolphins out there. Considering how buried in the depth chart he was in the offseason, that's great. He actually looks aware out there and puts himself in decent positions. Guys may make yards on him but he's a battler and pretty physical. Also not a small DB - and puts in special teams work.

Mando may not appreciate your production Nolan, but I do and so do a lot of other fans posting here it appears.

Greg, Theisman played right here in my home town of Toronto.

DC, Marshall is well below Carroll in the PFF ratings. Marshall is No. 62.

I'm telling you strictly because you asked but I would not bring it up on a blog even if Marshall had a higher grade because I'm not all that upset the Dolphins let Marshall walk (he got burned a lot in practice).

I WAS NOT thrilled the Dolphins traded Vontae Davis and he's No. 86 on the ratings.

But I remind you the ratings are not gospel. Davis has only given up 7 completions this year and allowed 17 YAC. His completion rate against is only 50 percent.

I would be quite happy having him and Brent Grimes starting for the Dolphins.

2 watt @ 12:55 ... dam u Steve DeBerg!!!

Dolphins were a good team that year - Marino tore the achilles in Cleveland ... always hated Cleveland

Armando, even better would be Sean Smith and Grimes .. Don't know what Smith is ranked or care but he was awesome against Philly. #2 corner - that would be a great spot for Smith.

Mando, you're absolutely correct, Carroll is good on a team as the No. 3 or No. 4 CB. I assume that's what the Dolphins had in mind when they kept Patterson and drafted the two rookies.

Too bad about Patterson. Too bad.

Mando, do you really think Carroll's man was open the first three quarters and Ryan didn't see them?

Or do you think that when he did throw to them, he saw that Carroll did not battle for the ball? I think that is his weakness.

Well, unlike the woes at OL - there is an in house solution at CB - Jamar Taylor is an awesome talent - just needs the seasoning - whether he can catch up in time to produce this season, who knows?

Carroll started well last year and then faded badly. He was excellent that game against Cincinnati and then fell off the table to the point coaches put him on IR even though he said he could play at the end of the year.

I expect the same this year. Is what he is.

What Patterson is is an injury-prone guy. Geez.

Mando,

Carroll is holding up fine in the bend but don't break Defense by Coyle. He's middle of the pack but the idea is no big plays.

They held Matt Ryan well within check allowing only 6.1 YPA when he hasn't had less then 8 YPA in his first 2 games.

Carroll is far from the answer but he's not the whipping boy I though he'd be when called upon. I don't want Marshall, inconsistent Sean Smith (my favorite former whipping boy) or any other scrub from last year.

The Dolphins didn't see Smith as a system fit, Mark. He's more a man-press guy and the Dolphins don't play that style exclusively. He had trouble recovering in part because he's so big.

Also, Smith never really made any plays for Miami. Perhaps that also is a result of not being suited to the system but I don't think having footballs in your hands over and over and over again and rarely holding on to them had anything to do with the system.

Hey Mando, how likely is it that we'll see jamar taylor this monday?

Thanks for the replay Mando, I wonder why it didn't work with Smith. No, he wouldn't provide turnovers but like you say, he was good in man coverage and especially useful against the monster WRs in the NFL.

I always thought he was more reliable than Vontae too.

As far as the dropped interceptions it was getting ridiculous ... agreed.

Anyways, I was bullish on Taylor during the months leading up to the draft _ i think he will make this discussion with Davis and Smith very irrelevant.

Well, unlike the woes at OL - there is an in house solution at CB - Jamar Taylor is an awesome talent - just needs the seasoning - whether he can catch up in time to produce this season, who knows?

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | September 26, 2013 at 01:15 PM

AWESOME TALENT?!?!

AT WHAT?!?!?!

RIDING THE EXERCISE BIKE???????????????

I think the thing to take away from this Joe Robbie talk is, to take a realistic look at the man. He did some great things. Invested everything he had to bring pro sports (1st pro team of any kind) to Florida. He brought Don Shula to Miami. But he was also so cheap he got rid of Flipper (remember him?) at the OB. Why? He refused to pay for transport from Seaquarium.

So, let's respect the man for what he did but let's not deify him

Used to cringe when I saw Carroll on the field-almost waiting for a mistake to hurt us. Now--not so much. I think he has worked hard to improve his positioning and he does have some strength. Is playing much more up to his talent. Always like to see aggressive DB's, but the risk becme that if a receiver gets by them--off to the races. At this tim, if the talent dictates, I will accept completions as long as the YAC is controlled.

As always, a strong front makes for successful DB's. We can't accept a throw-away game--each one counts and is important. I would not want to risk a player's long term participation by rushing back too soon, but if Wake can go to any decent degree I would be surprised to not see him in sometime. Vernon has to show something--what has happened to his success in pre-season...? The LB's need to stay aggressive. Losing Misi will be more damaging than Soliai for this game (wish both were there). It was hard to watch everyone get gassed on Sunday, and our so-called advantage of wearing down the opponet with the Miami weather DOES impact our players, too. Will be different in the dome, including not working aganst us.

We gotta keep the speed up and not waste time on gltzy stunts, etc. We do better when we play straight ahead and let out talent run the show. Keep Tanne off his butt and TACKLE and we could take this one. And while, sure, winning the TO battle is key, too.

I think we ultmiately win this one with Special Teams. Let's not forgot this key part of our weapons-very little talk about them but we have the best kicker and a great punter and fast people.

Slim Shady, you'll see that Jamar Taylor will have a better career than Dee Milliner ...

Speaking of Vonte Davis, Jamar Taylor's college tape reminds me of Vonte. Plays a similar physical style and with experience, getting up to speed with the playbook, and 100% healthy. Taylor's playing style will remind us of Vontae Davis.

Taylor was extremely physical playing against the run in college. Pretty good in coverage too. Can't wait for this kid to get 100% healthy and up to snuff.

BTW, with the emergence of Will Davis and Jamar Taylor by seasons end. Dimitri Patterson most likely wears the title "former Dolphin" cb in 2014.

Posted by: 2 watt | September 26, 2013 at 12:55 PM

Grasping at straws, 2 watt?

Mark, seems you've seen a little of Jamar Taylor in college too.

I would love to see Brent Grimes, Jamar Taylor, and Will Davis as our top 3 corners in 2014.

rage, he's going deep into the vault ... ran out of material on the current team ...

Sam, yeah, the vontae comparisons are fair but Jamar seems a little "smarter". But they are similar type athletes. Both very thick, strong, and fast. And Taylor does love sticking his head in there (insert rdubs joke).

Boise State is no joke when it comes to producing football players....

I hear ya, Mark.
C'mon 2 watt! Give us one of your 28-0 posts.I haven't seen one of those is a while.

Mark,

I agree with you on Taylor. I'm very excited to see this kis play. It's almost as if we just traded for this kid and he's just joining us now.

Agreed, he may not show it all this year but he's a great athletic talent, who should have some vey good years in Miami. I'm almost as excited for this guy as I about the drafting of Jordan.

You forget John Denney, unreal contributor to the whole Team

Don't know much about Taylor but what I've seen of Will Davis, you must find a position for him in that D backfield. He gets his hands on an awful lot of balls.

Thanks to Tannehill’s improvement, Miami also is getting more touchdowns than field goals. They are leading the NFL in red zone touchdown percentage and actually scored more points (74) than the high-powered Saints (70) through three games.

- James Walker, ESPN

Armando Salgeuro,WELCOME! to Fantasy Island.

every fan wants see their team to win, it is a great feeling being 3-0! and i don't mean to come off as a greedy fan, but i think were all waiting for some excitement, maybe some hard tackle breaking runs, maybe a touchdown bomb or two to wallace, maybe a pick six from reshad jones, maybe a catch made in stride by egnew who then rumbles over some of those smaller defensive backs...i think were all waiting for those opponant demoralizing confidence boosting plays. that donnie jones fumble inducing special teams hit was just that, icing on top of that come from behind victory. can't wait to see these fins on monday night!

I loved Tannehill's mindst about the redzone. In his interview the other day he said not getting a touchdown is like losing 4 points. Completely the opposite of Sporano.

...Here is the obvious revelation for this weeks game..Something I'm sure NOBODY has thought of before this post??????

I think a huge factor for this game will be third downs. I do worry that we may not have the cushion of defending the redzone this week. That third downs will sort of be the mini redzone challenges throughout the game. Lets see how the secondary does in these situations. What sort of pressure can we create, and what the distances are that we have to defend.

Same story for the offense..I think(especially in the second half) Tannehill, this offense has been very good at converting third downs. Especially because the difficulty level has been high, as we continue to "Fall behind the chains"...At this point I feel we are playing with fire if we can't get that running game going..So far we have found ways to win. But last week, the defense looked gassed by the fourth quarter. Losing the TOP battle isn't always the make or break factor in deciding an outcome to 1 game..I'm just saying that if the trend continues(especially against top teams) we are asking a lot of the defense over a course of a season..We may keep winning, at some point it will bite us.

Oscar, Davis does have a nose for the ball. This isn't some recent occurence for him either in college, his pass break-ups and picks were an astounding figure. He has the knack as they say

Ok gents, off to havana for the weekend. See you all on victory Tuesday!!

God bless..

holey swiss cheese robin, no1 on the ss staff pix the phinz on mon. nite,homers go over there and pixx and moan + groan.
lol

mark,don't eat yellow snow while u'r down there.
lol

Most of the postings here are correct. Nolan Carroll is not starter standard, but he's filling in well, and hasn't cost up a game.

Offense needs to put up 30 points to win Monday night.

*us*

Mark in Toronto..Havana..Sweet. Have fun down there!

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