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Why is Vernon getting more snaps than Shelby, Jordan?

Sometimes coaches see things through a different prism than the rest of us. They see things through the prism of the truth. They see things through the prism of motivating a player. They see things with an eye on the future. They see things after watching and studying game tape.

Well, we cannot account for the part about motivation and the future agenda.

But we all watch the games. We can look at the All-22 tape available on the Internet. And thanks to ProFootballFocus.com, we have the ability to see grades from a tape study of games from eyes with no agenda.

And that's why I was kind of curious on Tuesday when Dolphins coach Joe Philbin was asked about the play of Olivier Vernon. Vernon, Miami's starting right end, didn't really factor in the Cleveland game because Joe Thomas generally erased him from view. And although he didn't play a renown tackle against Indianapolis, he only collected an assisted tackle and half-a-sack against the Colts.

That's not a lot of production so far. And judging that limited production, Philbin said this:

“I think he’s doing a good job," Philbin said. "I don’t see the same things. He’s playing hard. He’s playing sound. I think he’s improving. I see some good things. Obviously we anticipate there will be more production as the season goes on. We think he’s giving us a good effort and has played well."

Quick Dolphins In Depth quiz: Mando has said many times there is activity and accomplishment. Do they equal each other?

Answer: Activity does not equal accomplishment.

Any NFL player can play hard. I'd say a majority do. But that is merely activity. To win, one must accomplish something. On defense, one must tackle, or sack, or intercept, or fumble cause, or fumble recover, or gobble blockers to create opportunities for teammates.

Playing hard is good but playing hard without accomplishing at least one of those is just activity.

And the reason I bring this up is because witnessing the games and using the tape grades from PFF, it's obvious Vernon isn't doing a whole lot while other Dolphins defensive ends are producing more with fewer opportunities.

To wit:

Vernon is the No. 48 rated defensive end in the NFL, per ProFootballFocus. He's had 84 pass rush snaps in two games and managed five total pressures and that .5 sack. He has that assisted tackle in the two games combined.

Miami also has the No. 3 rated defensive end in the NFL, per ProFootballFocus ... Expected right? Well, not so fast. That No. 3 rated player is not Cameron Wake.

It's Derrick Shelby.

(Wake, with 2.5 sacks and six QB hits, is the No. 17 rated defensive end, according to PFF).

But I digress.

Back to Shelby ... He is a backup for Miami. He has only 20 pass rush snaps in two games. And in that short amount of playing time he has three solo tackles, an assist, two sacks, and two forced fumbles. Those are official statistics from the Dolphins. PFF also credits him with four total QB pressures.

So Shelby has some 60 fewer snaps than Vernon but much, much more producton.

“He’s very technically sound, a very good fundamental football player," Philbin said of Shelby. "He keeps his shoulders square. He has his hands where they are supposed to be. He’s smart and instinctive. He’s done a really nice job. I really like what he’s done."

Well, yeah!

The question is if OV is producing at his current rate and Shelby is producing at his rate, how long before Shelby starts getting more opportunities?

Furthermore, rookie Dion Jordan is also doing more with less. Jordan also has 20 total pass rush snaps and has two tackles, a sack, and three total pressures. He is the No. 13 rated defensive end in ProFootballFocus's ratings.

Now, I understand limiting Jordan the last couple of games. He's still coming back from that shoulder issue, he's catching up after missing much of the preseason, and he's a raw, young player that needs grooming.

But how long will he and Shelby be allowed to bang on the door of the starting job before someone answers? And even if you don't want to upset the order of things with Vernon as the starter, how long can the Dolphins continue to give more plays to a less productive player?

These are important questions this week because the Atlanta Falcons have the ability to throw the football about as well as anyone in the NFL. But they also offer the grand opportunity to give up sacks and strip sacks and possibly scores because both their offensive tackles are, in a word, atrocious in pass blocking so far this season.

In other words, the Dolphins will have opportunities to hit quarterback Matt Ryan on Sunday.

A lot. 

So do they give those opportunities to a player who has produced less so far? Or do they give more opportunities to players who are so far earning more snaps but not getting them?   

Comments

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1st!

Soliai out for extended time.

We are done.

Look no doubt I will sit Soliai and start Starks because of pass rush ability and Coyle needs to start the best at their position PERIOD!
Ryan is a statue and I agree with Mando start the players that produce not the ones
That play hard and makes no mistakes, that good also but production equals wins. Not just playing hard improving getting better...I want Jordan Shelby Wake Starks as the starters Sunday and than we will find out if we have a legit pass rushing team!! Philbin show some balls! LETS GO PHINS!!!

Look this organization don't leak out t any info, but I almost guarantee Soliai already has had surgery on his knee, don't be surprised, it might not be long term but he had it scoped....but that's OK we have depth it makes this D more athletic on the D line
Check it out its wierd that Soliai in his last year of contract is out for how long don't know!!! Things that make you go hummmm! PHINS WIN IF THAT STARTING LINE UP PLAYS MORE ON SUNDAY TOGETHER!

Where Derrick shelby come from? I had not heard his name at any time during preseason.

One of the major problems sitting Soliai is that he takes up two OL on most plays and is opening holes for the LBers to make some good plays. There are very few DT's like Soliai!

The reason that is important this week is that Ryan uses play action a lot to set up his passing! Yes they lost their number one running back on Sunday but they have to be held in check as far as their running game. Then Ryan will be in a position to do a viable impression of a sitting duck!

REGARDING THE DION JORDAN NON-SACK

I'm not gonna kill the guy for taking it easy on Luck on that play he said he thought the ball was gone and I believe him.

The opposite of that is he could have body slammed Luck and gotten 15 yds + first down.

Actually he played pretty good in the preseason. That's probably the reason the undrafted FA made the team. Again it was in limited action. Not that he was hurt but they seem to have a love affair going with Vernon. Love affairs are alright if they accomplish something but I'm asking the same questions as all of you? When will he be given a bigger role? Love affairs don't have to end but some do end, at least that's been my experience. I think Vernon has about a half to begin showing something.

True Soliai takes up at times two guys but the falcons for this game don't have the horses to have a productive running game, for this game I think our defense can stop the run with starks and our offense score quickly and go up two TD and than the pass rushers can pin their ears back and just go all out and sack pressure hit molest Ryan!! That's the formula for victory on Sunday!! I got my boys 24-13

VERNON PLAYED GOOD IN THE PRESEASON....NOT!!!!!!HE WAS GOOD IN THE PRACTICES VS. OUR GUYS...HE NEEDS TO GET BENCHED..WE NEED PRODUCTION OUT OF THAT SPOT,,GRIMES WON'T BE ABLE TO SAVE US IN EVERYGAME..ALSO REHAD JONES HASN'T BEEN PLAYING LIKE LAST YEAR..IT MIGHT BE CAUSE HE GOT PAIDED ..I SAY CAUSE WE GOT MORE TALENT ON DEFENSE...LAST YEAR HE HAD TO WORRY ABOUT THAT WIMP SEAN SMITH WHO COULDN'T TACKLE..WE WILL BEAT THE FALCONS..WE WERE GONNA BEAT THEM EVEN IF THE FALCONS DIDN'T HAVE THOSE PLAYERS OUT..WE ARE PLAYING WITH CONFIDENCE NOW ..AND THE FALCONS AIN'T THAT GOOD ON THE ROAD OR OUTSIDE THE DOME..WITH THOSE INJURIES I SEE THE GAME BEING A EASIER WIN..I SAY WE WIN 34 16,ONE LAST THING JET TROLLS........GENO SMITH STINKS......BILLS TROLLS MANUEL YOUR QB IS GETTING EASY PLAYS ..EASY THROWS WAIT TILL HE'S FACING REAL PRESSURE..OH AND PAT TROLLS BRADY IS GETTING OLD..GO FINS!!!!!!!!!!

SINCE THE GAME IS ON FOX..I WOULD MUTE THE SOUND CAUSE THEY ALWAYS GO FOR THE NFC TEAM..SO I'AM HEARING JIMMY CEFALO THIS WEEK..UHHHHH!

It looks to me like the D-line is playing fine, I say leave them alone.

On the other hand if Tanne keeps getting hit like he's been getting hit he's going to end up in the hospital.

Mando if you want to find fault then look at the O-line.

Well,... The good thing about starting Shelby or Jordan is.. OV is very athletic and can be used as a stand up OLB... I still believe hes a better in that role anyway..He can still get in on the action.. He can give Misi a breather as well...

Philbin has ALWAYS said the best players will start at their respective positions. Well Olivier Vernon is NOT the best Right Defensive End we have, so why is he starting??!!

Come on bring it!!! I'm not too impress with the falcons because if all the injuries
I know they have julio Gonzalez white. But White is not the same player like before he is not as productive but still needs to be respected. That's where the pass rushers come in....feed back please.

The OL has played well except for John Jerry...

Philbin has ALWAYS said the best players will start at their respective positions. Well Olivier Vernon is NOT the best Right Defensive End we have, so why is he starting??!!

Posted by: Kevin | September 17, 2013 at 09:56 PM

Tannehill is not the best QB on the team and he starts too. Philbin lies.

RODDY WHITE HAS LOST A STEP..HE WAS THERE BIG PLAY GUY..WITH HIS 4.47 SPEED THAT WAS LIKE 9 YEARS AGO..HE STILL CAN OUT MUSCLE PEOPLE TO GET OPEN ON COMEBACKS..JONES CAN RUN AND IS HUNGRY..BUT HE ALREADY MADE A BIG PLAY LAST WEEK..NOT THIS WEEK..GONZALEZ IS A GREAT PLAYER ..STILL HAS THOSE VELCRO HANDS AND GETS OPEN..HE NEEDS TO BE DOUBLE TEAMED..AROUND THE GOAL LINE..BETWEEN THE 2O'S HE CAN'T RUN.

ETF, you are kidding, right? Shelby was good as a back-up last year. I think he got a sack in the HALL OF FAME GAME.

Vernon is a mystery. Good solid player, just not getting anything that shows up statistically. I guess we have to trust Philbin to call that. He has done well in other places in the line-up.

The Jacksonville fans rallied for Tim Tebow but the FO has their eyes on Mr Football Johnny Manziel.

VERNON IS TOO STIFF....THAT'S HIS PROBLEM..NOT AGILE..THE ONLY THING HE HAS GOING IS THAT HE'S STRONG AND PEOPLE LIKE HIM CAUSE HE PLAYED AT THE U!

Whats the problem again Armando.....

2-0.....

I Think Philbin has earned the right to coach as he see fit....

It's a tough call but I say give Vernon another shot to start the game but keep him on a short leash. He was awesome during camp and preseason and I don't see giving up on him yet, he earned some slack. If he stays invisible cut his playing time as the game goes on then bump him down on next weeks depth chart to see if it lights a fire. If not it seems we may be set with Jordan and Shelby so no worries.

Philbin has earned the right to let this unfold as he sees fit. Now if we 0-2 or possibly 1-1 then maybe you can question his decision but that's not the case. There's thought and reason behind everything he does. Of course we are not privy to that info.

Not going to live and die with PFF stats. There's more to the game than statistical calculations. I'm keeping my eye on the W column period.

TruthhurTs,

Tell us again how the Colts were 13-3 last year lol

I'll trust Philbin and Coyle over you and PFF, sorry Mando. They're working in Jordan slowly and only putting him in on passing downs because of the shoulder.

Shelby has been doing good so far, surpassing all my expectations. Maybe Vernon is going hard every play and then Shelby and Jordan are coming in fresh against the o-lineman thats been dealing with Vernon.

Bottom line, Philbin and Coyle get the benefit of the doubt for now as long as they are 2-0.

Btw, the Falcons O-line isn't as bad as I thought. Only gave up 2 sacks in 2 games if I looked it up correctly. Definitely not atrocious so far. We're gonna need to bring the heat Sunday.

Yes, Philbin has earned he right to do whatever he wants because he's proven himself to be a genius with an 9-9 NFL record.

Philbin is 10-17 including preseason.

Whenever Matt Moore throws the ball I cringe.

I'll trust coach Philbin to make the decision. He's earned my trust.

Philbin has earned the right to let this unfold as he sees fit.

Posted by: TruthhurTs | September 17, 2013 at 10:34 PM

He said the same thing about Sparano after he was 11-5.

This schedule may or may not be tough. With all the parity and turnover with teams, it's hard to say.

I do know that I like the way it has unfolded. Especially if we stun the Football World and knock off the Falcons. Either way, the first 3 seems like a perfect work up for an up and coming team.

Cleveland first. Though improved, their at the beginning of a rebuild themselves. So it promised to be a good "tune-up" game. Being that we won, it was a great test in that they have a STOUT Front 7(as evidenced by us and the Ravens troubles playing against them).

Then the Colts! A giant test for our Defense in general and particularly our secondary.

Now Matty Ice and the High Powered Falcon's Offense. The Defense might not be top 5, but they kept them in enough games for Matty to lead them to the playoffs.

It's exciting because we're winning obviously. But also because there's just so many ways to look at it. But now, RIGHT NOW, in 3 words:

Pivotal!

PiVoTal!

And.......

PIVOTAL!

Winning the first two on the road, one being against a marginal playoff team is good. But it still allows the media and Talking Heads to ignore us as usual(and they are. In a sickeningly flagrant way). We open up with a two game win streak ON THE ROAD and Luck gets all the highlights. If it wasn't for Wallace's TD, Tannehill wouldn't have gotten any air time. Just sick!

If we lose, we won't even get any lip service. The Browns are the Browns, Luck had an off day and Matty Ice will have put the uppity Dolphins back in their place.

But, if we open at home with a win and extend our streak to 3, including two playoff teams that feature Talking Head favorites Luck and Ryan, EVERYTHING CHANGES! All will be **FORCED** to sit up and pay attention. Even the most rabid anti-Miami Pundits will HAVE TO bite down hard and Swallow!

They keep pretending like they can't hear us knocking, FINE. We're just going to kick the God Damn door DOWN!!!!

Pivotal! PiVoTaL! PIVOTAL!!!!


I'd take Armando over Ireland at GM 8 days a week. Not that its saying much....

Y'all call yourselves Dolphins fans but it be a lot of hate going on

Y'all call yourselves Dolphins fans but it be a lot of hate going on

A.T., there aint much to like about 4 consecutive losing seasons.

A lot of that may be on Shelby. The coaches may be concerned about how well he understands the playbook. Certain packages may work better with Vernon. However, I'm sure that Coyle and Philbin see the same thing that you're seeing. I mean, they're looking at the tapes too. So, I expect they will start playing Shelby more and more snaps as they feel more comfortable with him in there versus the pass, the run, or in special blitz packages. Vernon better step up his game or he'll be spending more time on the bench.

I'm wondering who Miami will use to cover Gonzales? Jordan perhaps? He's big, fast, and can cover...

Grimes will probably be on Julio Jones. To me Roddy White isn't their #1 anymore.

Looking for the Speed Package against Matty Ice. Perhaps they'll rename it the NASCAR package like some other teams have.

Looking for Special Teams to be the difference for Miami this game. First game was D, the second one was the Offence, so next up will probably be ST.

Miami wins by a Field Goal in a nail-biter...

Exposing the Fraud, are you serious about Shelby? He showed flashes last year and he progressed more this year. He has a good first step, poor man's Wake if you would. Like Wake, I guess sometimes these guys can just develop. They just need the real playing time sometimes. Hope he gets a chance. He is a free agent from Utah. He made some plays during this preseason. Did you watch any of the preseason games?

Agreed Odin

I understand that and believe me I do cause I've been a phins fan 4 20 plus years now but the hate ain't go change that stick wit em we bout 2 reclaim the AFC East

"Offense" not "Offence"....stupid spellchecker...

Well, you know what I meant! (At least some of you did...the rest, I'm not so sure about).

ETF, what are you talking about?

You heard me gushing over Shelby and Kheeston Randall all last season. Didn't you?

Remember? I called or said that Shelby reminds me of a Poor Man's Bruce Smith. The inexperience aside of course, in size, speed and body type. Then, especially when he dips his inside shoulder on the outside speed rush.

Nobody dipped and defied the laws of physics like Bruce Smith. But Shelby is a natural. Many-MANY are better than Shelby(at present). But he has the most Smith-Like mechanics that I've ever seen.

Philbin is 10-17 including preseason.

Posted by: mike | September 17, 2013 at 11:07 PM
=================================================

Q: What kind of Tart includes Pre Season in anything?

A: A TrollTard-LOL.

Just kidding Mike, You Da Man!

FLPD, tell me what Belichek's record his first year was.... Hears a hint check the Browns record books....

We moves Odrick out of that spot to generate more pass rush so I say we generate more pass rush with whomever produces. Remember, Shelby and Jordan are coming in fresh.

Dear Mr. Busted,

I'm starting to think that you just might be right.

Could it be that "SOMEONE'S" ego couldn't take the **PERCEIVED** dressing down from Armando?

In other words, despite Armando's numerous warnings, despite Armando asking politely, he felt the rules just DO NOT apply to HIMSELF.

He feels he's above all that applies to the rest of us mere Mortals. So when Armando asked something as simple as change your idiotic and vulgar sign in name, it was a crushing blow. You know it was, because he hasn't shown his face(not under any of his "NORMAL" sign ins anyways).

You know the ironic and hilarious part, he used all kinds of sign in names each and every day anyways. So why the big problem when Armando asked him to change just one?

Because, in his demented mind, he SERIOUSLY feels that the everyday rules that apply to the every day Joe are beneath him-LOL. And because of that, he was DEEPLY offended by Armando's request.

Thank Goodness though, because the place has beenm running a lot more smooth. Excellent Football conversations and not nearly the amount of petty personal things.

FWIW!!!!

2-0 Baby!!!!

We moves Odrick out of that spot to generate more pass rush so I say we generate more pass rush with whomever produces. Remember, Shelby and Jordan are coming in fresh.

Posted by: Darkoak | September 18, 2013 at 12:39 AM
===================================================

Philbin's not going to come out and explain it too us. But your post could be it in a nutshell. It could be something as simple as that. It's simple, but very important.

It could be part of the bigger picture in keeping the Defense Fresh. Wake and Oliver handles a certain amount of work. Then Shelby comes in fresh.

We don't know, but I believe everything they do is for a reason. Maybe they wait for a specific point when both the Offensive Tackle and Vernon are getting gassed. Then Shelby and/or Jordan come in fresh and school the winded tackles.

Armando asks a legit question. But the answer could be something as simple(and SMART)as THAT!

Odrick needs to start at de. It will make our run d great again and on pass rushing downs. Wake Shelby Vernon and Jordan should play on pass rushing downs

Our best d line is wake Starks soliai odrick. Jordan Shelby and Vernon are specialist not every down players

We give up 4.6 a carry which is the worst yds per carry in years. Last years line with ellerbe and wheeler raising hell behind them

Vernon is the defined weak link on the line. I would not mind seeing Shelby in his spot for an evaluation.

Vernon will be alright. He wasn't known as pass rusher at UM, He was stronger against the run. But OV has the quickness to be a good pass rusher in the NFL, just give it time, ya'll uh be quite pleased.

Per Mike Wallace "I don't want the defense to carry the team, I want us to be explosive".
WOW, when's the last time we heard that from a dolphin player?

No issues with D line...

Secondary giving 10 yard cushion for 3qts...MAJOR ISSUE....

Indy had no problems scoring on that defense.

Coyle, what were u thinking???? That's too much room to give NFL receivers.

Hmm, could it be that Shelby and Jordan just aren't strong enough in run support to take the spot from OV yet?

Look, I'm all for an awesome pass rush but nobody will pass when they can run at a DE for 6 yds a carry. That's what I saw with Shelby in preseason. I would keep bringing him in on 3rd and longs and late in the game with a 10+ point lead.

How can we question player selection when the team is winning? Especially after only 2 games. Maybe in practise both guys are equal. Maybe one player forgets what he is supposed to do during certain plays.
But I don't know. So to question the coaches ability to select players by position at this point is kind of making a change to make a change. Like painting the living room when there is already paint on it.

Armando i mostly never agree with you but in this case you are dead on! Vernon has did little to nothing and has been shoved all over the field! Shelby and Jordon do both look goood......I am thinking the reason is that the Job is Jordans to win and think when they are convinced he is healthy enough for a lot more snaps the job is his! You don't draft a guy that high and sit him.

Im glad the haters on this blog dont run my team or business! Go Joe Jeff and go Fins!!!

After what thi team has done the first two games i am asking the questions does anyone think the stadium will be a sell out and it will be loud or will the stadium be half empty. I think it is about time to let the past go and move on less fill the stadium and support our team

good point Armando

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