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Some Dolphins Olinemen getting fired anyway

Richie Incognito showed his frustration Wednesday when he was asked about the sack pace the Dolphins are on. Yes, Miami is tied for the league lead in sacks allowed with 18 and there are various reasons for that.

But the offensive line is the primary culprit the Dolphins are currently on pace to give up a team-record 72 sacks this year and that is kinda freaking Incognito out.

"If we give up 72 sacks, everybody should be fired, the whole offensive line," Incognito said.

Yeah, I have news for you Richie: Significant parts of this offensive line are getting fired after this season anyway.

The truth is only two players on the Miami line -- center Mike Pouncey and left tackle Jonathan Martin -- are signed after this season so they're the only ones assured of returning next year. And only Pouncey can really be certain he'll be playing the same position in 2014 that he's playing now.

Everyone else?

Possibly playing another position.


Possibly playing for another team.


Possibly out of the league.

Think about it. Tyson Clabo, John Jerry and, yes, Incognito might indeed be fired (semantics) by the Dolphins after this season for differing reasons.

So let's take them individually starting with Incognito: He's playing very, very well. If you look at the replay of games it is clear Incognito is Miami's second best offensive lineman so far this season behind center Mike Pouncey. He has yielded two sacks, three hits on QB Ryan Tannehill and zero hurries. He is coming off his best run-blocking game of the season. And ProFootballFocus.com has him rated the No. 13 guard among 70 rated by the metrics site.

Incognito's issues, however, are that he is unsigned after this season, he is already 30 years old, he wants a raise, and high-priced but not elite guards are often easy to replace with cheaper players in the draft.

That is perhaps the reason the Dolphins have not offered Incognito a contract extension. The team will have other issues paying or adding players at positions of greater need -- right tackle, perhaps cornerback, perhaps safety, perhaps running back. Guards are rarely at the front of the line when they want more money as they get older.

So Incognito's Miami future is uncertain despite his very good play so far.

John Jerry's future is uncertain because he too is unsigned after this season and he's not nearly as good as Incognito. He has allowed two sacks, three hits on Tannehill and five hurries. Not great. And, believe it or not, Jerry's pass blocking is much better than his run blocking.

Consider that ProFootballFocus.com rates Jerry the No. 36 overall guard out of 70. Well, his run blocking rates 58th out of 70. Bad.

All you need to know about Jerry's run blocking was illustrated on Monday night's misbegotten third-and-one play call. It was a sweep. It required Jerry to block the nose tackle with a reach-block as he pulled left. Jerry didn't make the block. The nose tackle made the tackle for a 2-yard loss.

(By the way, on that play, the Dolphins put the momentum of the game in the hands of John Jerry and running back Daniel Thomas. No wonder offensive coordinator Mike Sherman said he'll be haunted by that call).

Anyway, Jerry is unsigned after this season. At a time the New Orleans Saints are getting ready to pay tight end Jimmy Graham anywhere from $11-$13 million per season, the Dolphins will have no issues letting Jerry, who they drafted ahead of Graham in 2010, walk if he doesn't sign for very cheap.

So Jerry's Miami future is uncertain. I'd be shocked if he's a Dolphin in 2014.

Then there's Tyson Clabo. He's a tough guy. He's a savvy veteran. He knows his position very well. And he's not playing very well. Sorry.

Clabo this season has allowed four sacks (an average of one per game), three hits on Tannehill, and 11 hurries. He is individually on pace to give up 16 sacks. By himself.

Consider that in 2011, Marc Colombo was considered a turnstile to the quarterback and he gave up nine sacks for the season and you have perspective on how bad Clabo's pass protection is so far.

And the kicker is that, according to ProFootballFocus.com, Clabo's grade on run-blocking is worse than his pass-blocking. Clabo is rated the No. 63 out of 72 tackles in the NFL by the site. That puts him behind Eric Winston (No. 57) and Bryant McKinnie (61) who the Dolphins considered signing this spring.

Indeed, Clabo is behind Jeremy Trueblood, whom the Falcons signed as something of an afterthought backup in September when they needed depth. Trueblood was thrust into a starting role by injuries and is now rated No. 40 overall among tackles.

Only four right tackles -- Justin Pugh, Lane Johnson, Derek Newton and Jordan Mills -- are rated lower than Clabo.

Clabo is on a one-year contract. Unless he completely turns it around in the next dozen games, he will not be back in 2014.

As for the two men who definitely won't be fired after 2013 -- Pouncey and Martin -- their Miami future is brighter.

Pouncey, a former first round pick, has allowed one sack this year. He's had a plus-grade in three out of four games and three games in a row. ProFootballFocus.com rates him the No. 6 center among 33 players at the position.

He's good.

Martin has had some issues in that he's given up four sacks, a QB hit and eight hurries. He's not exactly dominant with his run-blocking, either. Yet ProFootballFocus rates him a respectable No. 38 among the 72 tackles. And then there's this:

Martin's young (24), he's locked up on the contract front, and he's cheap ($1.08M against the cap this year and $1.3M on the cap next year). He can play left tackle and if the Dolphins upgrade at left tackle, he can move to right tackle. He is staying around in some manner.

Unlike some of his offensive line mates, Martin is not getting fired after this season.



Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/03/3664905/linebacker-austin-spitler-returns.html#storylink=cpy


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Cuz Oscar 3-1 with a good chance at 4-1. when was the last time anybody could say that

That one, I have to give to you, toad.

Listen man, Im as frustrated as anybody out there with this team from years past, it just doesn't do any good to put out those negative waves(Kellys Heroes). I refuse. So bash me if you want, Im staying positive cuz this can be a really fun season especially when we start playing in our own conference.

The signs were clear early on. Rolling the dice on Martin eventho they flirted with Albert. Later flirted with FB (what is his name?) because (by then) they had doubts O-line blocking. And then...we were actually depending on Jerry to come back from injury. WTF? Jerry, zone blocking? Really?

So, now we're 1/4 thru the season and wondering how this happened. Well no, not really. I don't wonder at all. This was a pizz poor evaluation of the O-line. Starting in the offseason where they had plenty of time to look at game tape. Passing up O-line help in the draft, continued into preseason, passing by free agents. And now, O-line continues to be a problem after how many years? I've lost count

Remember cocoajoe, everyone would have bashed Ireland AGAIN if used high picks on Oline. That's what was being said all through the offseason. It really was a no win situation in that aspect I hate to say. And yes we could be here all day saying the same thing. Oline will have whip cracked this week.

You can get by in today's NFL without a good or elite O-line. You need at least good playmakers though. I think that was their thought process during the offseason. Get the playmakers first. The O-line does need an overhaul though.

No question NeMo

Youguys....if you are a manager/boss/whatever, you cannot base your decisions on what the people outside of the organization may or may not think is correct. You will not last long if you do and that goes for any business.

Now with that said, what your boss may want (Ross in this instance) IS in the organization....many ways, Is The Organization. Still, it's his job to make the right decisions regardless.

As Peter would say = Offensive line, "Why Are We Not Funding This" lol

Let me be clear, I don't blame Ireland as much as I do Philbin. It's Philbin's job to make CORRECT evaluations of existing talent. Ireland's job is to go CORRECTLY evaluate potential players. Not that hard to understand really.

yea Mando you're sooo right... veteran guards are easily replaced by cheaper options in the draft. That is true but jeff Ireland is not exactly hitting on his o lineman selections in the draft. So just because a guy is cheaper doesn't mean he's gonna be a good player. why would you make a weakness of a team even weaker???

Toad, why are you here? I mean, other than to misspell Armando's name an write in a language that only resembles English but really isn't?

Ireland should be exploring a trade for Joe Thomas by now.

I agree with you cocoajoe, but Ross is not the one bringing the "talent" in. Im not saying that Ireland was influenced by what was said outside the organization on his decisions but the lack of playmakers from last year is. Unfortunately, our Oline is not much better than last year because of the band aids placed and plugged. None of us really know on what Ross says to Ireland about players if anything.

Richie Incognito is going to get a talking-to from Philbin for saying that stuff about being fired.

Not boring enough for Philbin's taste. Try again Richie.

"We're working hard and playing hard and blah, blah, blah."

That's all you got as well scourt. CMON man. I will spell ARRMANDOS name the way I want sorry it bothers you

In other news, I was thoroughly disappointed that the fins were severely out coached by the saints on Monday. That was more alarming than anything. Something that was even crazier was they asked coyle the next day what he would have done different and he still didn't have an answer. Payton ran circles around that man. I would have liked to see him have grimes shadow sproles the whole game. And Sherman. I have been critical of his play calling and lack of awareness when it comes to momentum the last couple of weeks but Monday took the cake. 3rd and one inch and a sweep???? Really??? That was an inexcusable error!!that play really turned the momentum of the game.

So cocoa, you don't like Philbin as coach?

Joe Thomas? Forget it, the Browns are born again. The Jags though? Hopeless. I would've picked off Eugene Monroe and marcedes lewis - maybe even MJD ...

Like I said earlier...this was as good a win as you can get.

We got beat by a team that is probably going to the Superbowl and running on all 8 cylinders...in their house!

The Fins licked their wounds on the plane ride home and ate some humble pie...fantastic!

What does not kill you makes you stronger!

Tannehill, the O-line, our Defense, the coaches...all got schooled on Monday night and all will up their game for Sunday.

I hate losing more than I like winning!!!

oops..should say "lose" not win

Hey slam, we were OUTEVERYTHING last game. its ok Ravens around the corner.

The Dolphins didn't suddenly get on this pace to give up a billion sacks this year.

They were 1-0 and were on this pace.
They were 2-0 and were on this pace.
They were 3-0 and were on this crappy pace.

The team has been winning and is 3-1 DESPITE this terrible excuse for an offensive line not because of it.

Get a clue people.

I know just hadn't had a chance to get it off my chest. I'll move on now!

If they had ponied up the money for Brandon Albert and signed Vonta Leech (great blocker)....

RT would have more time to actually throw the ball instead of being helped up off the ground.

Yeah, Dolphins offensive line will get better against the Ravens. What a moron frog is.

c'mon toad, that all u got?
what a putz.

Hey scourt, From the showing they gave NO, they WILL get better DBAG, only one way to go after that game Idiot. That's all you got AGAIN?

toad r u 1 of those morons who dress up 2 go to games and wear rainbow wigs and cover themselves in ghey glitter?

these are a couple of thing offensively id like to see improve vs the ravens.
1. Get mike Wallace the ball. Take shots downfield. I understand protection sucks but max protect.
2. Improve the screen game. For some reason phins suck at it.
3. USe the crowds momentum. Take shots after turnovers. Try to follow up one big play with another.
4. Establish a lead so you don't have to play from behind.
5. Don't out think yourself. If you have third and inch run up the middle.

Oh god 2watt back, like herpes you are man. a boiling festus of puss you are

At least I do it at a game festus idiot you do that everday


HAHA. Later all

I say draft Eifert at 12 and trade 42 for Brendan Albert

Youguys....no, not saying that at all, least for now. As a longtime Miami fan, I want Miami to succeed. Philbin succeeds = Miami succeeds.
But I see problems. Philbin is a new HC and is still learning. And that's OK but it's clear to me at least, that he leans way too much on Sherman in particular. Sure that you know their history.
Zone blocking will not work w/personnel we have now. Play Calls have been pedestrian. Coyle's D schemes are not working.
Philbin HAS to make some hard decisions concerning his staff or it will be his job. Question is, will he do it?

Anyone else thinking the move up to #3 to grab Jordan was a bad decision?

Finfans, can someone please tell me why this team CANNOT scout players like other teams...or get players that once on the team flouish in the play. Is it the coaches we have? Scouts not seasoned enough? I will not rest on thinking that Ireland is the biggest moron and this owner no different. Why did they not go after Jimmy Graham? He was at the U! Right in our backyard and we let him go...These are the questions I keep asking but I get no answer that can explain. An extension for Ireland was IDIOTIC! But that's the owner we have...been a Dolphins fan for more years than I should have been with the mess we've had to endure..Comments welcome.

Let's see how the team reacts this Sunday before we all write off the season...

I wonder how much of Clabo's problems are that he lines up next to Jerry. Jerry is a liability - always has been. It seems to me like whenever you work with a liability you end up doing the work of 2 people. Clabo is a solid vet, but he can't do his job and cover up for the guy next to him.

The great teams that consistently win year in year out have solid and predictable O lines. FIRELAND has ignored O line.

Lol I knew once we lost our first game all the malcontents would return. Fireland may be the biggest moron on this site but now that we're a shameful 3-1 he has friends!

NH, I was not the only one by far. But once again, this was pi$$ poor evaluation of team. When you overhaul a team, you start with the weak points. How long have we had problems at O-line? And added to that, D secondary? Seems like forever. Yet, Philbin & Co. wanted D turnovers which is a good thing. But at what cost do you ignore another problem?
The fact is, no matter how good your D is, a turnover is something you really can't count on. May happen, may not. But O-line has to happen, play after play

We're not just 3 O-Line guys away, we're 6, as you MUST have competent backups, and obviously we don't.
Garner is obviously a keeper, so make that 5. It is a MUST to save this season, as it's played out in the Fins favor so far. Ireland must obtain another Left tackle, and move martin now. Hits from the blind side are the worst, both from an injury AND turnover standpoint.
Totally agree that we move Jerry to RT and move in Garner, who, while not spectacular plays well when it counts most, it seems.

Sorry, I meant trading a draft choice and/or players for a SOLID left/right tackle is a must. This is a playoff year for the Fins IF we can keep Tanny upright.

BTW, we run the screen worse than any team I've ever seen. part of that is Tanny's acting, the other, just bad O-Line casting. They can't MOVE. Martin is a statue, the reason why Luck ran so much at Stanford. A fact curiously overlooked at draft time.

Jakester, when evaluating Ireland I like to start with 2011 draft to be fair to him. In 2010 when Graham was drafted Parcells was still in charge. He has gotten us some decent players, but has his fair share of misses as well.

2011- Pouncey, Clay, Jimmy Wilson
2012- Tannehill, Vernon, Miller, Matthews
2013- the jury is still out on most of the picks. Sturgis looks really good though and Sims made the game winning TD catch in a game.

I am waiting until the season is over to judge him. 8-8 or worse and I think he should be fired. 9-7 or 10-6 or better and I think he deseves the extension.

Personally, I think him and Aponte are doing a good job and the team will finish 10-6. If they finish below .500 again though, even being a homer I will have to agree and say he should be fired.

Posted by: Jakester | October 03, 2013 at 04:05 PM

One wonder if, as the Fins coaching staff was constituted at the time if Graham would have shown the growth he has under Payton?
I doubt it. He also didn't fit the Parcells/Sparano prototype, thus Ireland, the ever dutiful lap dog drafted "fat" John Jerry.

With respect to Martin, I cannot still figure out why some people are so down. The guy has played only 9 games at the pro level. Seriously? How is Lane Johnson doing for those drooling for him draft day? Or Eric Fisher? Saw pieces of a KC game and he was getting pushed around bad. Does he need to improve? Of course he does. The whole line does, but there are stretches of game I've seen where they can put it together and move the ball nicely. Just look at drives at the end of each half in the ATL game, or that first half vs NO.
Not all is doom and gloom

Last post, I meant to say only 9 games at LT. Guy is in his 2nd year only

I just think a team like Miami with a young qb needs to be more balanced on offense. If the running game wasn't so sparsely used each week, it would make things easier on the entire offense. This team has some talent, as evidenced by their 3-1 record. The run game has improved each week, and Miller is averaging over 4.5 per carry. I wish Sherman would let him get into a groove and give him 20 carries per game. The Patriots are willing to run the ball down the opposition's throat, even with The Great Tom Brady. Why won't Miami run the ball???

I agree Arturo, the guy is about average right now. He still should have some upside and get better, I would not write him off yet.

Clabo seems to be the big disappointment so far. I mean Jerry is ranked 36 out of 70 guards thats average.
Clabo is one of the worst at tackle though. They might want to consider playing Garner in his place after the bye.

Arturo, I just don't believe Martin will get better due to his lack of mobility. Anyone with 10% more foot speed, and Martin is toast. He is IMMOBILE, at least from what I saw Monday night. For a Stanford guy, he also doesn't appear to handle decisions well either. Often takes on the wrong guy, or NO ONE. This is a case where I totally disagree (respectfully) with Armando.
Go look at Stanford games, and you'll see how the a good deal of the time when Luck took off unplanned, it was due to Martin's guy getting a bead on Luck.

3-1 today, but you're fooling yourself if you think the Dolphins aren't again on pace for 7-9 if the constant sacks of Tannehill, Olivadotti-esque pass defense, and the offense kicking the ball around to the other team doesn't stop quickly.

So one may assume the team went 3-0 despite not playing up to their full capabilities. However, one should probably assume the Dolphins overachieved mightily and lucked into 3-0 despite all their flaws. Thats why the 2008 Pennington-led Dolphins are still such a breath of fresh air in a decade of crap. You knew they had very little blue-chip talent, but they played clean and fundamentally sound football nearly every week.

With respect to Martin, I cannot still figure out why some people are so down. The guy has played only 9 games at the pro level. Seriously? How is Lane Johnson doing for those drooling for him draft day? Or Eric Fisher? Saw pieces of a KC game and he was getting pushed around bad. Does he need to improve? Of course he does. The whole line does, but there are stretches of game I've seen where they can put it together and move the ball nicely. Just look at drives at the end of each half in the ATL game, or that first half vs NO.
Not all is doom and gloom

Posted by: Arturo | October 03, 2013 at 04:27 PM

Short answer is because he sucks. He seems NOT to know his blocking assignments. Whiffs. Appears to be blocking imaginary D-end. Looks like a clown at times.

So of the 5 linemen according to PFF, Incognito and Pouncey are very good. Jerry is slightly above average and Martin slightly below average but neither is alarmingly bad. Clabo has the horrid grade. So if the team can upgrade the RT position - it should be an ok line going forward ... why does it look so bad in game though? Like I started it off, slde Jerry over, insert Garner and let Clabo be our depth guy ... should be better, almost passable.

cocoa, careful writing these guys off so fast. One reason our o line is always in a constant state of flux is because we cut losses with these guys too fast. before he got injured (again) Donald Thomas was playing good ball for the Colts as was Satele .. and don't even let me bring up pro bowler Wade Smith ... that one hurts most of all...

Now the Bucs, they know how to tank ... just released Josh Freeman ... like the Colts released Kerry Collins a few years back. No Matt Moore hollow victories for that team ...

"You can get by in today's NFL without a good or elite O-line"
No way, one look at this year's NY Giants will tell you that. Ravens SB run took off last year when they fixed their OL problems. New England's success this year and in past years is directly tied into the excellent offensive lines they've had. That is how Brady has 10 seconds to throw a freakin pass.

So of the 5 linemen according to PFF, Incognito and Pouncey are very good. Jerry is slightly above average and Martin slightly below average but neither is alarmingly bad. Clabo has the horrid grade. So if the team can upgrade the RT position - it should be an ok line going forward ... why does it look so bad in game though? Like I started it off, slde Jerry over, insert Garner and let Clabo be our depth guy ... should be better, almost passable.

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | October 03, 2013 at 04:41 PM

As I've said before Mark, my opinion is to take advantage of player strengths. Which with the exception of Pouncey is not zone schemes. Never convince coaches tho. I do agree move Jerry to tackle. Way too slow for guard esp zone

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