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Drafting Jon Martin was a consensus decision

When the second round of the 2012 NFL draft began, the Dolphins knew they wanted to add an offensive tackle. Two players were at the top of general manager Jeff Ireland's horizontal draft board at the position and both were graded as virtual equals.

The Dolphins, with the 42nd overall selection, liked Georgia offensive tackle Cordy Glenn and Stanford offensive tackle Jonathan Martin.

And when the the Buffalo Bills selected Glenn with the 41st pick, there was no hesitation inside the Dolphins draft room. The focus immediately shifted to Martiin.

A scout who was most familiar with Martin was brought in and asked to go over the scouting report. And the file was clean. Martin was described as Andrew Luck's blindside protector, as smart, as a potentially good locker room guy and as a tough player.

When the scout was done with the report everyone in the room was sold. Everyone in the room agreed. No one -- not owner Stephen Ross, not coach Joe Philbin, obviously not Ireland, no one -- said anything that would suggest Martin shouldn't be picked.

Indeed, the idea that Martin is "soft," was never brought up. There were no red flags as to his psychological or emotional state. There were no medical issues.

And based on that strong organizational consensus, the Dolphins selected Martin.

Fast forward 19 months and it is clear the narrative on Martin has changed. His emotional state is such that he's getting treatment for an unspecified "illness." He was considered to be soft by some teammates.

So did the Dolphins completely miss it?

Or did Martin, under heavy and unrelenting pyschological attack, simply lose it once he got to the Dolphins?

Was Jonathan Martin troubled before he came to the Dolphins, suggesting the personnel department missed something, or did the Miami culture ruin him, suggesting the coaching failed him?

To hear former Stanford players such as Coby Fleener and Andrew Luck talk, they back up the initial scouting report the Dolphins had on Martin.

That, however, is not the point. The point is now Martin has fallen away and his representatives say he's not comfortable returning to the Dolphins. So aside from the sad nature of this Incognito-Martin issue, the bottom line is the Dolphins have probably wasted another second round pick.

And the popular thinking among fans is it is all Ireland's fault.

Well, sure, it is Ireland's ultimate responsibility for picking a player that did not return the desired investment. But what happened that day in the draft room was a full-throated approval of what Ireland was doing. That includes Joe Philbin. That includes owner Stephen Ross.

Everyone.

To his credit, Philbin publicly has not distanced himself from Ireland at a time Ross has seemingly done so and fans are on a Fireland rampage. On Wednesday the coach made certain everyone knows Ireland does not act alone on personnel matters. Philbin, you see, is also responsible for personnel wins and losses since he was hired.

“Jeff and I have worked closely since the day I’ve gotten here," the coach said. "He’s been very supportive. We all work together. This is not a one-man operation in any regard. Everybody works together. Everybody contributes."

And when responsibility must be attached or fault found, everyone shares in that.

So if Ireland indeed loses his job for this pick, this controversy, it bears saying he had lots of company in Jonathan Martin becoming a sad chapter in Dolphins history. Philbin approved of picking Martin. As did others.

No one said no.

Meanwhile, there is something to be said for fate because Glenn, who the Dolphins just as likely would have picked before he was selected by the Bills, is turning into a very good player. He has started every game for the Bills this season at left tackle. 

Comments

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Those chiming in...

The issue has nothing to do with Marino being a HOF'r and Martin not. The point I originally made is that there are caveats on 99% of the players in the draft. A poster implied we gambled on Martin amidst caveats - which I hadn't seen - and that the team was at fault for ignoring the caveats. I was merely enlightening him to the fact there are always caveats, and the caveats on Marino were louder and worse than on Martin.

If you avoided all players with caveats, you'd never get a 53 man roster.

the team f n suxx

marino had talent, drugs were the issure. martin had no talent and a vagina, much bigger issue

THE WORST PART OF THIS SEASON SO FAR IS THAT WE ARE LOOKING UP AT THE JETS IN OUR DIVISION. HUH? The stinkin Jets were supposed to be the bottom dwellers,and the Dolphins were supposed to challenge New England for our division. Look how that's turned out so far,and which teams left on our schedule will we beat? The Chargers? Panthers? Jets? Steelers? Hell we even lost to the Bills at home with their practice squad QB and we are going to beat them in Buffalo,in the cold temperatures? I do not see us finishing at 8-8 and people are talking playoffs? SURE!

It will be nice for about five minutes when we read all the "Dolphins Fire Ireland" headlines, but then reality will set in quickly.

Ross will be the one hiring Ireland's replacement, so we have to hope he doesn't blow it.

Who else has that weird feeling in the pit of their stomach that Scott Pioli is coming here????? There's just no getting away from people connected to Bill Parcells in some way, shape or form…….

let the jets finish second and have that schedule and a 20 or later pick

i see carl peterson, which would be fine

we better finish 4-12 if we know whats best for our future. that shouldnt be a problem, this is one bad football team

Some of you talk about falling to the second round as though it was some evil curse. 2nd round picks are high pick/high potential players.


As far as this years oline versus last years, well we didn't have Clabo the friendly ghost at RT last year. We weren't missing Cogs for any games either.

We can talk about failure in the draft and in free agency.
We are all mainly blaming Ireland.He must go.
But, the principal to blame is the coach.
Philbin is at least a mediocre coach, and he cannot handle the responsability.
you can have the 53 best players in the nfl, but if the coach messes, you have nothing.
You have a great coach, and it will turn a mediocre player to a good one, and a good one to great.
And there you have a SBowl team.
Fire Philbin, bring Cowher or Gruden .

Hunter@8:56AM: "There were more caveats on Marion that there were on Martin"

That's YOUR statement. I figured you could/would not back it up. Now you want me to research it for you after pointing it out to you? Good luck with that.


It is an inability to understand the human side of the equation.

Posted by: Toby Shea

Good post and dead on about Ireland Toby. Guy doesn't have a clue

The negative that I didn't like about Martin was weak upper body strength. That fact was borne out by his poor bench results at the combine.

The theory was Martin could hit the weights and be the LT. I laughed when I read this BS. It takes a lot longer than one offseason. Martin doesn't have what I call core strength and never will.

bill cale

You are a loser really. You are a fake.

I stated the caveats on Marino that EVERYONE but you seems to know. I told you what they were loud and clear.

You are too weak to back up your claim that there were many caveats on Martin. You said that, not me. Yet I've asked you three times and you've evaded backing up your own statement.

It sure sounds to me like you were making things up just for the fun of it,

Go away and don't respond to me again.

You sir are a total waste of time.

You watch. Martin will go to Indy where he will be playing with his former teammates and coaches. Martin will have a ring well before any dolphin.

I made a mistake. The bench results were at Martin's Pro Day. Martin chose NOT to go to the combine.
This is from NFL Draft Scouts....

...and that he will need more strength to battle the behemoths he will encounter in the NFL. That concern was amplified when, after not working out at the Scouting Combine, Martin managed only 20 reps on the bench with 225 pounds at Stanford's pro day

Hunter, I tried to see value in your posts but you seem to be the kind of moron here that many despise. You make a claim that you can't back up; rather than discuss it, you keep picking by changing your claims and try to start a fight over it. I'll not bore everyone here with further back and forth with you.

Lmao, we were just talking about this. Keep banging those drums mando, Philbin, Philbin, Philbin. What else can we pin on him?

Of course they all signed off, THEIR SCOUTS AND THEIR BOSS IRELAND who studied this guy during the season said he would be a good pick! Aren't they supposed to trust the guy in charge of finding talent?! Why would they second guess the pick if the draft reports in their hands (prepared by Ireland) and the words out of Irelands mouth were positive?

Dude, we know you want Philbin gone, but you've obviously lost your mind if you're not placing 100% blame on Ireland for drafting Martin.

I believe that Ross's "blue ribbon" panel will be advising him on not only the locker room culture, but will also be advising him on talent and the coaching staff. Ross has chosen some of the best minds in the game to evaluate his franchise from top to bottom. I highly doubt that Ireland will survive as a result, Philbin has a chance, but a slim one.

I am with the majority in regards to showing Ireland the door, but not so sure on Philbin as of yet. Not sure if he is being completely forthright about his role as a talent evaluator. He seems to be towing the company line more than anything. If he choses to do so, and it looks to me like he has, he will also be removed.

Of course the SEC player is better

Posted by: Phins78 | November 14, 2013 at 09:48 AM

You're a lil off base here. Philbin & Sherman do have say in who's drafted. It's not all Ireland. I'd say it's 25% HC, 10% OC, 65% GM.

Are you trying to tell me Sherman & Philbin weren't in on the Tannehill pick? Please. I'd venture to guess Philbin & Sherman are highly involved in the first few rounds & then it's all on Ireland & his scouts for the later rounds.

I want Ireland gone as much as the next guy but, Philbin is partially to blame. I know Armando has the hots for him right now but, you now what? All fans should be.

What has he shown? He shows ZERO emotion, is robotic, & has a propensity to get outcoached & out schemed by other coaches.

Let's not make it seem as if losing Pilbin would be some big loss. The team will be better off with a completely new slate of coaches, players & management.

What the hell is the article about? Who is responsible for the draft pick? The final say goes to Ireland. But should he be fired for it? Not a chance. Should he be fired for the locker room antics? Well no, he isn't in the locker room babysitting grown men.
How about Philbin? He says we need a left guard and there is one guard that seems to fit the bill and the team takes him. So how is that Philbins fault? He can't fast forward to see a Martin/Incognito twitter slap fest.
Many analysts including you guys on this board had the Phins at 7-9. If they end there, can it be expected that they had a decent season?
Do I want to see Ireland fired? Nope. This team needs another 2 years to be a winner. Take the time, work hard and the team will be a winner.

I just wanted to say it's completely unnecessary to call people names

Posted by: Phins78 | November 12, 2013 at 03:17 PM

How many times haas this guy called others a moron here? Has to be well over 1000.

Such a hypocrite. He’ll never admit it though.

Irescum has set new records for most draft busts ever by a GM. And idiot Ross does nothing.

What in the world will MonteZonk do when Ireland is gone? He better hope the next GM is worse!

This team needs another 2 years to be a winner. Take the time, work hard and the team will be a winner.


Posted by: klndry | November 14, 2013 at 10:06 AM

This is what every homer on this blog has been saying since Ireland took over. Amazingly, every 2 years, we never get better.

Yea, lets give him another 2 years! LOL

It's not Martin's fault that the team has lost 5 of the last 6 games. This team is a mess with or without Martin. And the main responsibles of this are Ross and Ireland, ireland and Ross. They have tried to built an OL duribg the last 5 or 4 years, and look what we got now. Ireland hires and dispose players as if they were softdrink cans. He's so incompetent, stupid, stubborn and moronic, that he's convinced that he's doing a good job. Ross think the same.
We "stupid" fans are the only ones of not seeing the geat job they are doing.
It's pathetic ! The truth is that this pair are the real imbeciles of this circus, and we fans are this collective intelligence that at the end is always right.
Boycott Ross ! Dont go to the games. Stop filling Ross pockets ! It seems the only way he has to learn. If you decide to attend, show you anger by displaying legends: "Ireland out !, we deserve a better team " or something like that.

Brought in a scout to go over his mental state? Why didn't the look over the test results and see Glenn had aced his phsyical tests while Martin failed his miserably.... no way those two should've been equally ranked ... anyways...

J.Martin was always considered soft.

Red Flags?

What about him doing less reps than a WR at the combine.

Tough and J.Martin were never used in the same sentence until now when people defending J.Martin are trying to use it.

If J.martin was Tough he wouldn't allow himself to get punked from day 1.

First day Richie or another one of the guys run their mouth. First thing Martin should've done was tell them what did the 5 fingers say to the face. Smack!!

I don't care if Incognito likes to play Slapass. If you don't want to play slapass you don't have to.

Bill Cale - You did run from your own statement - never cited anything to back it up. Another poster did cite some relative things - but you didn't even after many requests.

Jus sayin'

:-O

Armando:

You make it sound as if this is Ireland's ONLY 2nd round mistake. His overall drafting has been mediocre AT BEST; however, if you specifically look at 2nd Round picks he has been AWFUL...BEYOND BAD. I would argue that 1st round picks are easier, although I know that can be debated, because of all the data out there on sure fire 1st round guys. Second rounders take a little more "digging and scratching"; Jeff Ireland is using a plastic shovel to get his information! Our last 5 2nd Round picks are Jamar Taylor, Jonathan Martin (42), Daniel Thomas (62 - trade up), Koa Misi (40) and Pat White (44)+ Sean Smith (61). Any debate that we have been POOR at choosing 2nd rounders?

Dashi, the scouting reports don't confirm what you are saying other than his workout day.

His former coaches and players all pegged him as tough and not someone to back down. Luck did pretty well with Martin at LT.

Try to stick to what is reported by people with first hand knowledge and not your own imagination.

Jeff Ireland & 2nd rd. picks just don't go well together.

Seriously what has Philbin done to inspire anybody to keep him? Bad starts and finishes, terrible play calling ( Sherman is his pick), a both T-hill and Philbin show no emotion--so how is the rest of the team to follow?

Vontae Davis should have been coached up like his brother Vernon. At least one of our rookies should be playing regularly.

This team is poorly coached and motivated. He pays more attention to untied shoelaces than to snap counts.

And also Mando you are making stuff up.

DO YOU REALIZE HOW BIG AND SLOW CORDY GLENN IS. Glenn doesn't fit the Prototype for the type of linemen we want. We want smart and athletic linemen who are also tough and that love the game of football. Glenn was about 6'4" 350 coming out of college.

Dashi, since you are an Ireland fan, how many more seasons would you give him?

Chris I brought up the snap counts yesterday! Peee Wee league stuff!

GO...GO GO!

DeCastro was the tough one. Show 1 scouting report that claims J.Martin was tough.

Usually if an O-Linemen is tough they say the guy has a "Mean Streak". Show 1 scouting report that claims J.Martin had a mean streak.

Bad Karma brings you bad fate. Time for a change

What's this article about? Yes, it's speading the blame around the war room. But to me, it speaks volumes about Dolphin college scouting. Martin is just the latest example of years of mediocre and downright failures.
Most agree that Ireland's a goner. But what about the people who work under Ireland? These reports and evaluations don't materialize out of thin air.

Maybe it's time to do a through evaluation of the Player Personnel Department top to bottom. Now that would be a useful committee for Ross to come up with.

P78, Mando's agenda aside, Philbin has to take his fair sahre of the blame. he is an old o line coach. He should've X'd this guy as soon as those pro day results came in without injury...

Merling, Henne, White, S. Smith, Thomas, Martin, Misi, Taylor

Only 1 of those 2nd rounders has been decent here & that's Misi. Lets not forget trading 2 2nd rounders for Marshall & then trading him for 2 3rd's.

Yes lets give Ireland more time! Maybe he can just forfeit 2nd round picks! I mean, WHY BOTHER DRAFTING!

cocoa,

I'd say that is a better way to put it. Not so much that they missed on Martin as much as they missed on too many higher round picks.

Then they let go one of the few good ones, Vontae, over minor maturity issues while they sign known woman beater Marshall and retain woman molester Cogs.

Makes no sense.

The thing is the team has whiffed on most 1st- 3rd rd picks. How many over the last 5 yrs are on the team still, in the league, or have been productive. 1. Maybe none.

As the only Ireland fan.

I said it before and will say it again. Ireland gets 1 more off season. The Fins need to make the playoffs next year.

That was my plan all along when he hired Philbin. This was never a 2 year turnaround.

Now, I know some will say Blame Ireland from the beginning. Which I do, But I also know that Spo and Parcells didn't help. By he time Ireland got full control of GM duties the Cap was already destroyed and Spo was exposed as an Incompetent Coach. Add to that the new coaching staff runs a different system and you need to find players to fit in the new system.

Last season was the "Evaluation Season", This season is year 1 of the rebuild. Next season we should be ready to become contenders.

Personally, one thing I will NEVER criticize Ireland for, is the Tannehill pick (if Tannehill turns out not to be our answer at QB). I will always give Ireland credit for being the 1st GM in 30 years to draft a 1st-round QB. Doesn't mean there aren't other reasons to blame Ireland, but I don't think Tannehill can be counted among them.

It will be Interesting to see McCoy vs Philbin. McCoy got a career year out of Kyle Orton and revamped Rivers. We could have paired him with a decent D –coordinator and let him groom T-hill.

20-20 vision but Philbin does so little to inspire any hope.

Elvis, what u say is all fine and dandy except that even before Martin's first game I was pegging his demise because of his softness. And I'm the Ultimate Homer!!

That pick never had a chacne.

As faar as the guys questioning the 2nd round picks ... I think Taylor will be good. Smeith is a good player, Misi is solid but unspectacular. The rest suck rocks.

Jeff Ireland is not a great NFL GM by any means. But neither is he terrible.

The irony here is if you measure how good Ireland is as GM, Ross is as owner and Philbin is as coach this is what you have:

Ireland > Philbin > Ross.

The team wont make the playoffs, that's a fact. Because if we're lucky we going to win no more than 2 of the last 7 games. Thetefore, as usual, it's time to think about our near fututure and so, about the next draft. It's sad, but it's like that.
Two OL in the first 3 two rounds, and the best RB available. Then DB's and LB. We dont need WR anymore. Pass rushers ? Well, we were supposed to have the best one in DJ. Of course I assume that next draft will take place without the infamous and phony Ireland.

Dashi, McKinnie is also big and slow now but they both keep the QB clean. Mando is not alone in the Cordy Glenn revist - I also said the same thing last offseason ... Glenn was the guy. He is more of a right tackle though. jake on one side, Glenn on the other, OT would've been settled for a while but this group has managed to mess that up large.

The team wont make the playoffs, that's a fact. Because if we're lucky we going to win no more than 2 of the last 7 games. Thetefore, as usual, it's time to think about our near fututure and so, about the next draft. It's sad, but it's like that.
Two OL in the first 3 two rounds, and the best RB available. Then DB's and LB. We dont need WR anymore. Pass rushers ? Well, we were supposed to have the best one in DJ. Of course I assume that next draft will take place without the infamous and phony Ireland.

Ireland is not decisive. He questions himself. He hangs on to players too long. We saw that on HardKnocks. He was AFRAID to let go of Gates thinking the guy would suddenly become a player. He needed Philbin to set him straight, Gates was not a football player.

Irelands biggest problem is lack of life experience. He was too young to become a GM. Maybe he was a great scout, he got some great players for the Cowboys, but he does not have the leadership qualities to be a GM. One day maybe, but he is not there yet.

cocoa, I know we can look at this Martin pick and say they miss the boat on picking guys with NFL athelticism. But honestly, this pick was the anomoly over teh last two years.

The Dolphins have doen a good job since Philbin came in at least of picking guys that have excellent atheleticism for their positions. Tannehill, Vernon, Miller, Egnew, Jordan, Taylor, Davis all measured out very very well.

What happened with that martin pick? I have no idea, a head scratcher.

Mando, this isn't about another player being picked before Martin. How long are you going to hold onto that story line. Hell, we could have picked Tom Brady in the 5th round also... Cripes!!!! Let's look at the facts!!! When was the last time an NFL player left a team and went directly to the hospital for mental treatment??? Maybe the guy just has emotional/mental issues and can't cope with any NFL locker room. Isn't is strange that no one really knew the severity of this before Martin walked out??? you keep placing blame without knowing all the facts! STOP! Report on the next game

At best, Martin is a disingenuous individual. Closer to the truth is that he has his own issues (i.e. depression, chemistry imbalance, etc.) that he brought with him. Something triggered his event. Could be his erratic play, his anti-social tendencies and any other unseen pressure. It damn sure wasn't Richie. Rough around the edges, crude and somewhat offensive but hardly the cause of Martin's problems. When the issues are in a player's head, they can go unnoticed no matter who the GM and Coach are. Drafting is an imperfect science.

I just wish all the scumbag talking heads on ESPN (Keyshawn, the ultimate team player, Carter, HOF yes but plenty of past demons and Schefler who is supposed to report rumors not give his opinion as fact) would honor the foundation of our judicial system - DUE PROCESS.

MIT,

Agreed. Glenn was a good prospect. And I also projected him as a RT or guard coming out of college.

But to say he was on the Dolphins draft board is preposterous when we all know nobody outside the team has access to the real draft board. Unless that reporter was so tight with said team that they even invite him for team pictures.

On top of that you bring up a great point. Any linemen drafted or projected to be drafted by the Dolphins was looked at as a RT candidate not a LT. The Wall was the LT, we were either looking for RT or a Guard. They should've drafted a LG last season.

Who was available last season at OG when Martin was selected?

The Fins could've had a Strong left side last season, needing only to fix the right side this season and next. Plus, since we would've never drafted J.Martin we would've never gotten into this debacle.

Hunter, I'm not letting anyone off the hook for this mess least of all, Ireland. If his department (personnel) are not up to snuff, it's his job to find better people.

One of the HCs main jobs is to evaluate the players on the roster and in camp. Philbin obviously thought that Martin could do the job this offseason. Same with Clabo. Why else would they stick with them so long?

What did Ross know about football?

His two main advisors were Peterson and Parcells. No doubt Parcells advised him to dump Sparano but keep Ireland. Why else would he have kept him instead of starting clean?

Wayne chased the wrong rabbit. Parcells is at the root of everything wrong now. He was a great game day coach, but a lousy VP of football operations that only set the team back another 5 years.

Has anyone ever actually seen Philbin coaching during a game? During games, I see the HC of other teams, you know, actually coaching! All I see from Philbin, is this blank stare. I see no player engagement at all.

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