« NFL pledges transparency with investigation findings | Main | About that voice mail again ... new information »

Martin-Jordan got into scuffle, Incognito intervened

Last week before he left the team under apparent emotional duress of some sort and well before his camp claimed workplace harassment at the hands of teammate Richie Incognito, offensive tackle Jonathan Martin got into a practice scuffle with rookie Dion Jordan.

Such exchanges, by the way, are not uncommon. They happen plenty.

And, as receiver Brian Hartline related to me in the locker room today, the first person who went to Martin's defense in the fight was, you guessed it, Richie Incognito. And soon center Mike Pouncey was in on it as well on Martin's behalf.

Randy Starks confirmed the little battle as well and said defensive linemen then joined in on behalf of Jordan.

It went as one would expect it to go except ...

The narrative out there is that Incognito was a Martin tormentor who wanted to toughen him up. Well, if Incognito wants Martin toughened up, why would help him in a fight?

The narrative out there is that Martin is physically soft. Well, actually, I've seen Martin in more than a couple of practice tussles and I've seen him take shots at opponents during games. During his rookie year he got into a fight on the field with Starks, who is one tough man, the first week of training camp.

Afterward, Hartline told me, both Incognito and Pouncey were upset with him because in some form or fashion Hartline seemed to agree with Jordan about the exchange.

So even on a non-physical level, Incognito and Pouncey had Martin's back after the fact.

 

 

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

ARMANDO,

ARE YOU BULLYING MARTIN ?

lmao at ALoco!

This is about money and a lawsuit. The moral of the story is don't draft a player with 2 harvard lawyers as parents

Every rookie that did not make the 53 man roster from every team in the League , is going to sue the NFL for not providing a work environment that they could succeed in . This is the End of the NFL!

I've been saying for a while, this is a premeditated attempt by Martin to quit the team with pay. He initiated his plan upon learning he would no longer start at left tackle.

The cafeteria prank gave opportunity to put in play.

Changing your tune eh mando? Afraid of looking like donestic abuser brandon dops marshall sounding off against bullying? That was rich...They need to re- instate incognito immediately.

I agree with Sam I Am. Its all too calculated.

I've been saying for a while, this is a premeditated attempt by Martin to quit the team with pay. He initiated his plan upon learning he would no longer start at left tackle.

The cafeteria prank gave opportunity to put in play.

Posted by: Sam I Am | November 06, 2013 at 08:19 PM

DRUNK DRIVERS. RAPISTS. WIFE BEATERS. RACISTS.

AS LONG AS THEY CAN THROW AND CATCH A FOOTBALL, AMERICA EMBRACES THEM.

BULLYING?

HYPOCRITES.

Martin is a puss. How would you like to have that guy with you in combat somewhere? Would he call a timeout when the bullets start flying?

The two greatest RED FLAGS of PREMEDITATION are:

1. Saving a voice mail for 6mths

2. Immediately going seeking psychiatric help

If he actually felt the voice mail was of racist intent. He would have immediately make it public. Not wait 6mths.

Then immediately seeking psychiatric help. I mean who does this unless it's a intention ploy of ulterior motive?

BoulderPhinfan. Bang on

Holy Schitt!!!! This gets better by the day!!!! I guess by Monday night, martin and Cogs will be dressed and ready to bust some Tampa Buc heads!!!!


UN-friggin-real !!!! The whole thing is absurdly bizarre !!!

All I have to say is if this wasn't premeditated, why did JM keep a voicemail from April?

Sam I'm starting to think that is exactly what is going on! when no one would play the audio only the text was released and even in that incognito laughed. it didn't sound like bullying it sound like friends talking trash.
I don't condone the langue he used but I still think it was just trash talk.

Martins parents are not only lawyers, but naacp lawyers. Someone correct me if that is innacurate.

Martin needs to stop this charade and apologise to ritchie, the dolphins, dolphin fans, and the entire nfl. I suspect he was bullied to play a game he had no heart for and needed a scapegoat to get out of it.

Again... This is about the NFL becoming part of the professional workplace. It is about behavior that the NFL and every other workplace deems as inappropriate.

And by the way, Cog coming to Martin's defense is not proof of whether harassment occurred or not. It is WHY the team should not police itself in this matter and WHY they asked the NFL to investigate independently.

Incognito does not have to be a bad man to have made a mistake if he is guilty. And Martin does not have to be a "man's man" to play football.

The game is becoming a profession, not a frat. And it is gonna be hard for some to accept it.

If Mar5tin were still starting LT this story never happens. Cased closed!

I will name this soap opera, "As The Dolphins Flip"
The team should refuse to play until Incognito is back on the team. The NFL investigation will uncover all this testimony

My buddies and I ball bust each other incessantly when playing a gentleman's game of golf, I can only imagine what it's like in an NFL locker room. That fact that this stuff happens should surprise NO ONE....especially media that cover the sport and the hypocrite former players who are making it sound like the powder puff league. The media coverage of this is sickening - the political correctness is making me want to puke.

Where is Ireland in all of this. The Gm of this team and still has said nothing!

The more things that keep coming out the more I think that this completely on Martin. Black players are overwhelmingly coming to Incognito's defense. If they felt Incognito was an abusive bigot they would not come out to his defense. I smell rat in all this whole thing. Sam I am may be right that Incognito as an intelligent Stanford grad put a plan in place to be able to sue the dolphins and quit football.

Martin has taken this team down. The fins will almost certainly lose to the Bucs Monday. No way this team will be strong enough to survive this week. He is obviously sick. Hopefully, the NFL does not take the politically correct approach and automatically cuddle Martin as the victim.

Ireland can not say anything. He can take no one's side until all of the facts come out. The lawyer have told Ireland to keep his mouth shut!

You are defending a guy who left a voicemail on a teammate's phone calling him a half-n*****r, expressing the desire to s**t in his mouth, insulting his mother and threatening to kill him.

Want to try defending Atilla the Hun next?

And as for you people calling Martin soft: this guy plays left tackle in the NFL. He hasn't been that good at it, granted, but he gets up every week to put himself between his quarterback and some of the most fearsome, destructive wrecking balls in professional sports. If you had to do that, even against a man of comparable size, as well-trained and conditioned as these linemen and rushing linebackers are, you'd be the ones s**tting your pants. Talk tough all you want, but it's true. Unless you're an army ranger, navy SEAL or US Marine, dude is tougher than you. Period.

As for holding onto the VM for six months, maybe the guy figured if he hung in there, scrapped in practices and games, and did his job as best he could, the abuse would stop. But given that Richie Incognito has been cut, suspended or "separated" from every single team he has played for since college, despite his obvious talent, he should have known better, and smart as he is, he knew enough to hang onto some evidence.

The evidence isn't enough for some of you faux-tough guys, but it might be enough for the Commissioner's office or civil lawsuit. I hope so.

Nice job defending an animal, folks. I hope he moves in next door to you and decides you're not his kind of neighbor, or maybe cuts you off in traffic and decides he's not happy with the bird you flipped him. Good luck with that.

Crap like this and vegas officials and vegas friendly rule changes are why nfl sunday ticket gets cancelled after 12 years. If they make the playoffs it will be on tv anyway. The nfl has become pro wrestling.

Don't worry everyone, Jeff Ireland will fix everything.

What the hell, Armando! What are you doing? LOL. Post before last was about no leadership. Even though you don't have all the information....even though you tweeted you wanted to wait for more information...now the players are "on the offensive" and they are giving you facts that Martin is FOS and all we get is so "Incognito and Pouncey had Martin's Back." Richie Incognito is about to lose his damn Job, man. Over lies and some other guys agenda. Our locker room is being ridiculed as being weak, and devoid of leadership when some of us are screaming is it possible that they did not know. Our dolphins are being roasted nationally and has become the poster child for bullying...friggin bullying of grown men...speculation is running rampant on our coaches and potentially good men could lose their jobs....and all we get is apparently they had his back after all. AMAZING! (I said amazing with a kind of whisper...its for effect, lol) This is Awesome!!!!! C'MON PHINS, CHANNEL THIS LIKE THE PATRIOTS DID SPYGATE....UNITE AND SAY EFF EM ALL, BALLS TO THE WALLS...WIN BABY!!! 1 WEEK AT A TIME JUST WIN BABY!!!! PHINS UP FOES DOWN!!!!

Once this thing blows up in Martin's face, it maybe Cogs that gets to sue Martin.

It may be Martin who's castrated from the league and looking at litigation against himself.

The NFL has 53 man roster of IVY LEAGUE lawyers. That trumps the 4-5 ivy league lawyers in Martin's family.

Sam.

Ireland should still acknowledge the issue and speak up as the Gm of this team. Philibin addressed it the players etc. he is a coward!

And it doesn't matter if it was premeditated....
If a coworker plays into a case you're building against him, then he's not too bright and what he did is still potentially against the law.

This all reminds me of when a rape victim gets blamed for wearing provocative clothing. And no, I am not comparing the situations...just the mindset of some if you. Including apparently the author.

Some athletes have been bullies since high school. Many of them get away with it cause the school and community support the perpetrator. If you all remember the recent Steubenville Ohio rape case this past summer then you'll get my meaning. Athletes there have been treated like gods for decades - both in Steubenville and across the country.

I enjoy watching the sport, but these professional athletes are not Gods and not above the law.

We need to keep Incognito, I hope he gets his name cleared. Cut Martin. He is causing nothing but problems and the more and more that keeps coming out is making Martin seem like the problem.

seriously, you are comparing this to a rape victim...well lets do that. Lets use the duke lacrosse team fake rape case...They got jonathan Martined too.

Matt Weiss, that because there was no threat. You seem to know what was going on by the media reporting. But the guys in the locker room, who are there everyday know better than you.

Richie was clowning around so much that Martin passed around the VM to his teammates and was laughing at it. you may not agree with the vulgarity of the language but that's him messing around. I have friends growing up who we use to kid around this way. I'm Hispanic and He Jewish and we use to insult each other all the time. It just want some guys do.

Okay, folks, I have a question that Mando or some reporter should ask Coach Philbin:

Why, if J Mart did not implicate anyone or make any accusations during his conversation with Coach Philbin, did the Coach then have a conversation with Cogs?

Hmmmmmmm?????????

He said he spoke to Martin on the phone, then met with him later that night, then had a conversation with Incognito...

...whom then did Philbin and the Dolphins talk to that prompted them to talk to Richie Incognito and suspend him??????????...


.....it couldn't have been the other players, cause they are in cogs corner...


so the question remains....why call Incognito, after he spoke to J Mart, if J Mart did not implicate Cogs??!!!!

Some of the truth is coming out about some of these hypocrite former players, GMs and coaches on TV that are chastising the Dolphins. A former teammate of Warren Sapp has come out and said that he was bullied by him. Sam was belligerent and abusive towards teammates and Tony Dungy looked the other way. These former coaches and players make me sick with their hypocrisy. They all now claim that hazing was off limits in their locker room.

Bill Polian started rattling off names of these smart squeaky clean players that he signed (Jeff Saturday etc.) and then said he never wanted Cogs. Then pounded his chest about how he won more games with those players than the teams Incognito had been in. Well maybe you won all those games because you had Peyton Manning, not Jeff Saturday. What happened to the team he put together when Peyton got hurt and he had to go to war with Curtis Painter. Pretty crappy team Polian put together there, huh?

The media is bullying the Miami Dolphins. The NFL should look into that.

The media has been having a field day with this. Local reporters, ESPN, NFL Network, CNN.....take your pick. Nearly every network has hauled out a so-called locker room expert who then proceeds to label Incognito everything from a racist to a bully to a team cancer. Philbin, Ireland & Ross have all been criticized and deemed unfit to lead an NFL franchise. The entire team culture has been dragged through the mud for lacking leaders. All of this has been pure speculation base upon the transcript of a single voice mail. When the truth ultimately comes out, I hope Incognito receives dozens of on air apologies from all these media speculators. I won't be holding my breath.

The truth is that nobody in the media has any insight into this situation. I doubt that many in the Dolphin's organization understand this dynamic. Its becoming clear though, as more players weigh in, that Richie is not the demon that the media is making him out to be. His teammates like him and support him (far more support than Riley Cooper received) and his relationship with Martin is more complex than bully/victim. For me, the biggest unknown is Martin's motivation in all this. How does he salvage an NFL career after throwing a teammate & friend (not to mention the entire organization) under the bus?

That's right cksmoker(s)...back pedal...

I remember the game where mike Sherman was the coach of the Green Bay Packers and Sapp in all of his great holiness and squeaky clean play crack back blocked a player from the blind side. It was a 300lb lineman...well away from the play. That lineman had no shot of affecting the play in any matter; it was a hines ward special. He broke the players pelvis. I didn't think a big guy like that could have his legs go in the air. I think he may have ended that guys career, but don't quote me on that. Guess who cam running to the defense of the player...Not favre...Not the D...Not the O-line. It was Mike Sherman...in the middle of the field...cameras everywhere...Up in Sapps grill! Sapp would have crushed him, most likely but that's not the point. He was a LEADER coming to the aid of one of his troops. Gained a lot of respect for Sherman that day and lost a lot for Sapp. Sherman drives me crazy with his play calling sometimes but guy has my respect. Will never forget that day.

Unfortunately the league is so focused on player protection and with the national awareness about bullying that the reports and findings of the NFL is already stacked against Cogs, regardless. Year after year the NFL is trending towards becoming a flag football league and now teams have to start worrying about player's emotions!! (Jeff Ireland lucked out that he didn't get sued by Dez Bryant). If you are not cut out to fight a gladiator's fight, then on Sunday's pick up a remote with one hand and a chicken wing with the other and just watch the game.

Clabo's comments about Martin are all you need to know.

"He needs to act like a man and stop this. It's ridiculous."

End of story. This coming from a guy who was demoted to the bench! He didn't sulk like Martin who is still starting, just on the other side of the line.

Martin has played his last down in the NFL. In martin's case, the NFL does stand for Not For Long.

Let's just wait and see how all this plays out. The players have a vested interest in the status quo. Remember, there were also reports of rookies being extorted for considerable sums of money.

We do not know the full story of Cogs and Martin. We've not yet heard from Martin.

The issues in play are bullying, slurs, extortion, labor law, emotional/mental illness, NFL culture, leadership and more. Let's see what happens.

The Dolphins have a lot of issues to address.

Oscar from last blog,

Your scare tactics don't work with me. You should know that by now, Prince.

And your holier than thou attitude just proves my point. Most psychologist are Sociopaths. They need to feel in power.

You will never get 2 psychologist to agree. Know Why?

Because one will always say his theory is better than the next guy. The Sociopath thing again.

And yes, it is emotionally weak. You know who is responsible for most emotionally weak people. THE PARENTS!!

Yes, Mental Illness exist!! But not everything is a mental illness. Mental illness should only be about people who have a chemical imbalance in the brain. I.e. Bi-polar, dementia, Schizo, Etc.

But most people claiming Mental Illness are using it as a crutch. Like J.Martin.

You don't go from fully functional one minute to crazy in 3 seconds. At least not without previous history.

Psychology is a pseudo-science that has only been publicly accepted for the past 100 years. Modern Psychology.

For 1000's of years before that people used Philosophy as a form of psychology.

Oh, Yeah. When I picked up Psychology I also picked up Philosophy. Philosophy is a more beautiful field in my view.

Yeah, Dashi doesn't drown we can swim for longer distances.

Thank you for fair reporting Armando!

Buster,

Philbin suspended Incognito, SUNDAY, AFTER the Martin family called the fins, AFTER the fins had already issued a statement.

Good lord, most of you are just fken retarded. The only fact here is that we do not know everything that transpired between these or as reported elsewhere there could be even more people involved, and some of them not even players.

I am not taking anyone's side but I can see how easily the alledged bully is always liked or even loved and the perceived weak link not much so. Which is why we need to see the findings the pros will be working on. Only the we could all make more educated comments and opinions about a very delicate matter.

Let the investigation go forward and let the chips fall where they may... TALK ABOUT THE UPCOMING GAMES!!!!!

Jim Nailed it. Now what is going to happen every time a guy is not mentally tough enough to make it.?

OK, so Incognito is compared to a rapist.

Let's compare Martin to a gold digger who is extorting any pro athlete.

We want Pre-Nup!!

We want Pre-Nup!!

Well Ireland did get a pre-nup!! The broad just wants to screw the team!!

Mr Weissssssss needs to grow a pair.

Mando is just yanking the blog's chain back and forth with this soap opera. Lol.

Thank you for fair reporting Armando!
Posted by: Phins78 | November 06, 2013 at 09:21 PM

Until the next blog where he rails against the horror of people looking down on Harvard lawyers.

Ectoplasm is correct. Last response from me until NFL completes its investigation.

I encourage everyone to do the same...including the blog's author.

Matt Weiss, I know the world is scary to you, but I hear Pokemon is making a comeback. Why don't you comment on one of those boards.

and what does this little episode do for Incog, he's been suspended and will not return, you said that. I hope Incog sues the Heralds ass off. MOndo, you had absolutely no evidence but you burned Incog at the stake, now you wanna crawfish.
You media types should be outlawed. You don't bring facts, you bring speculation and innuendo.

"Well, if Incognito wants Martin toughened up, why would [he] help him in a fight?"

---

Seriously?

First, one has *nothing* to do with the other. Teams, especially football teams, are *tribes*. Within each tribe there are sub-tribes. Tribes devise, revise, adhere to & administer their own codes. Those codes may transcend (or eschew) conventional norms of behavior, including race & class and may or *may not* comply with conventional morality & or even prevailing legality. Tribes, obviously, aren't unique to sports either. Boots on the ground, risky or physically-demanding occupations where mutual cooperation isn't just happy-talk but a key tool of survival. Incognito, tribal co-leader & subtribe alpha male, acted as any tribal leader would when he defended Martin. Yet, defending Martin has no bearing on any past or future discipline administered by leaders or between members *within* the same tribe. Second only to biological families, the tribe is most elemental social unit on professional sports teams, just like it is in the military. That, essentially, is the root of cognitive dissonance between media & players, outsiders v. insiders.


Second, Omar Kelly (Sun-Sentinel) reported it was Fin management who requested Incognito to "toughen up" Martin.

Third, it's increasingly apparent Martin only wanted to be an "outsider" on *his* terms. Martin was reportedly spoon fed affluence, civility, gentility by well-to-do highly-accomplished parents; Martin was weaned by the upper echelons of cultural & intellectual illuminati. In many ways, professional football represents the antithesis of *everything* Martin was brought up to value. Yet, Martin's *ego* convinced him not only could he survive, but thrive & actually beat these animals at their own game. That's why a HARMLESS lunchroom prank probably hit him so hard. It must've annoyed Martin like hell to be rejected by his *inferiors*.

You want subtext? The subtext is CLASS, not race. Martin carried a grudge against the primitive, tribal practices of Fin teammates. He nursed it, babied it with saved text messages & voicemails until Martin's hypersenstive sense of refinement, nee entitlement, could take no more.

It's not for *us* to approve or disapprove tribes or their practices. Tribes operate according to *their* rules, not ours, with no two tribes exactly alike (hence clucking disapproval of & between different teams/players/tribes).

You can't legislate tribal behavior any more than you can manufacture desire between two strangers or fake trust in a foxhole.


And it doesn't matter if it was premeditated....
If a coworker plays into a case you're building against him, then he's not too bright and what he did is still potentially against the law.

This all reminds me of when a rape victim gets blamed for wearing provocative clothing. And no, I am not comparing the situations...just the mindset of some if you. Including apparently the author.

You're right about 1 thing, the 2 situations have absolute ZERO in common.

Martin wasn't building case against Cogs, I'm believing he was building a case against football, so he could be able to quit with full pay.

Cogs just walked right into with that obviously fraudulent voice mail. Which Martin's ide would only release a TRANSCRIPT of. Obviously Martin's camp know the voice mail reads FAR MORE harsh than it sounds.

Still, believe as you wish, it's your right and we will not try and BULLY your opinions away from you.
I enjoy watching the sport, but these professional athletes are not Gods and not above the law.

Posted by: Ajdczar | November 06, 2013 at 08:45 PM

Dear Mr. Salguero

Its always tough when a Bromance fails.

Bromance's just don't last like they used too, I remember my grand-dads Bromance lasted 60 some years.

Yup, nowadays kids grow up in single friend households wondering why daddy is always sad and saying words like half N*&&%$ and I'll deficate in your food orifice

Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I just wish these two kids could patch things up for the good of the team.

I'm sure if they can work things out Uncle's Philban and Ireland will let these kids back in the house

Wishful thinking

Soiled :)

It sounds to me that Martin is a liberal and will cheat and lie to accomplish his agenda. I bet he's an Obama fan.

Posted by: Matt Weiss | November 06, 2013 at 08:36 PM:

Matt, if I say to you: " I am going to kill you", does that mean I will? What if the CONTEXT of this sentence is considered? What if I say this, but I am laughing? Matt, the CONTEXT of the sentence is all that matters. I will say again, CONTEXT! Look that word up and THINK, or next time I am going to tear your head off and "sh.t down your throat!" ( laughing!)

BLAH BLAH BLAH... We know enough, except who farted first... this was mismanaged and should have stayed inside the Dolphins camp. This crap happens everyday with every football team in the NFL, but only Miami's lame organization could blow it up by having a smart #!s whistle blower quit the team.

Enough already. Go win some football games and the fans will come back.

1 2 3 »

The comments to this entry are closed.