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Philbin endorses OL coach Jim Turner

Amid the ups and downs of this season and the drama and controversy of the past three weeks, one constant that has remained (unfortunately for the Dolphins) has been that the offensive line has always been at the core of the issues.

You know the facts: Forty-one sacks allowed to lead the NFL. Two starting linemen gone from the team because they were frenemies or something, guys benched, etc ...

And to me, that begs the question what responsibility does offensive line coach Jim Turner have in all this.

Well, let's get to the news. Whatever part Turner has played in any or all of Miami's offensive line problems and drama, he apparently has the blessing of his boss. That's because on Tuesday, Dolphins coach Joe Philbin gave Turner a pretty solid endorsement when I asked what kind of job the assistant has done so far this season.

"I thought he did a great job," Philbin began. "It’s evidence in the play of our guys the other day.  We had a lot of  moving parts and we’ve had some moving parts throughout the course of the season.  I think his players believe in him. I think he works hard every single day and he’s done a good job."

Now, I understand Philbin isn't going to throw Turner under the bus if he believes the assistant has stunk. That's simply not done. But there are ways to finesse this if the head coach wants to without losing credibility.

You'll recall Tony Sparano was asked in 2008 what kind of job then offensive line coach Mike Maser was doing. I recall because I asked the question. And Sparano said something akin to "he's busy doing his job and he'll be evaluated at the end of the season just like we'll all be evaluated at the end of the season."

That was no an endorsement, particually in light of the fact he was being effusive about other assistants when asked. And apparently Sparano took that tact for good reason because after a season in which Dolphins quarterbacks were sacked 26 times, Maser was fired. Seems Maser rubbed some players the wrong way and actually, get this, was a bit of a bully at times, according to club sources who spoke to me at the time.

The irony.

Anyway, that's not the approach Philbin took on Tuesday. His was a full-blown attaboy for Turner. And that is fine if that's how Philbin feels.

But I'm not so sure the facts jibe with the kudos. The Dolphins have given up 78 sacks in the two years Turner's been the offensive line coach -- and there are still six games to play this season.

Now, sacks are not the full measure of an offensive line coach. After all, quarterback awareness in the pocket affects that number as does inexperienced or poor pass protection from backs. But then there's this:

One player was very good before Turner arrived and has been very good after leaving didn't play nearly as well under Turner. Jake Long was ProFootballFocus's No. 21-rated tackled in 2011 before Turner joined the Dolphins. Last year under Turner, Long dropped to the No. 46-rated tackle in the NFL, according to PFF. This year with the St. Louis Rams, he is the No. 7 rated offensive tackle.

And it is not just Long.

Last year with Atlanta, right tackle Tyson Clabo was the No. 14-rated offensive tackle in the NFL, according to PFF. He allowed only five sacks, including none in the final 14 games he played including the playoffs.

This year with the Dolphins?

Clabo has allowed 10 sacks, has not been able to string together even two games without allowing a sack and is the No. 66-rated tackle in the NFL, per PFF. Did he suddenly forget how to play the game? Did he suddenly lose not one, but several steps at age 32?

Center Mike Pouncey is pass blocking much better now under Turner than he did as a rookie in 2011 before Turner. But how much of that is the fact Pouncey's simply more experienced? And his run blocking in 2013 actually is not as good as it was in 2011.

Now, I'm not saying everyone takes a step back under Turner. Richie Incognito's work got much better under Turner. And John Jerry became a full-time starter under Turner.

But Jerry has already given up twice as many sacks this year (4) as he did last year (2) and there are still six more games to play. And Incognito ... well, let's not go there.

 

 

Comments

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Kris, i would say the difference in those two events was one was contained (for a while) and the other spread like wildfire from teh start. So it looks like he is a bit hypocritical. Or maybe he jsut sees a genuine difference in what is known v unknown being detrimental to the team? Who's to say???

1) Turner will be fired at the end of the season
2) No problem with dumping oft-injured Jake Long
3) The real mistake was refusing to give up a 2nd rounder to sign Alberts - a (young) top 10 left tackle - and use that 2nd round pick on an injured CB who hasn't seen the field yet.

Anonymous troll,

Not being on a high horse, it was my stance all along.

The cap hits for long over the next three years are $4.25, $9.25, $10.5. Then St. Lou is done with him if they choose. In free agency you would pay this package to an above average left tackle, let alone one that is top 10 and was always top ten every year but one in his career. it was a pretty dam easy decision. has nothing to do with hindsight. And as i said, we are counting a sack of potatoes in Clabo more against the cap than Long this year.

And then there is opporutnity cost. Now we need to either spend the same amount of money or more to someone in free agency to do the job and won't be as good OR we burn a first round pick on a guy to do the job (again not as well) when we could use that first pick on a weapon like one of the big three wideouts or one of the two extremely talented and dynamic tight ends available.

It was a horrible decision and none of it involved hindsight. The risk involved in that contract is way less than the cost of all the alternatives involved in not paying the man.

So a schematic fit like John Martin was a much better decision, right? Or Tyson Clabo... or Dallas Thomas. I hate this excuse of schemes .. balls.

You find good players and you find a way to use them ... period. That's what the best coaches do.

Nick, why would pay a 2nd for Albert when we can get him for free this offseason?

6 bucks,

Brady is a joke. The PI earlier in the same drive was a joke call. Brady and the Pats are totally oblivious. Think the officials are on the field to make up for their short comings. About time they don't get one call. They can go fukk themselves

why would we*

Mark...to your point @ 9:49....

I a sure that what the team makes public...and keeps in-house is largely decided by the PR department 1st...and then perhaps run by lawyers 2nd (or the other way around...i'm not sure)...

either way....I think it is this crew (PR/Lawyers) who need to be fired...they have advised Philbin, Ireland, and most importantly Ross....in the worst ways possible....

If the answer if "go left"...Philbin is out in front of the pree defending why he decided to "go right" (and not in the football sense @ all)....

If the correct path is UP....the the FINS PR people have Mr. Ross out there talking about "down"...and why down is the place to be....

These guys have been horrible...from the COGS cover up (golf)....to having Philbin stand up in front of the press and say..."we were for the bullying..BEFORE we were against the bullying" (John Kerry Reference)....

I told Dashi...even back then that this thing was terribly mishandled....and if Philbin can is NOTHING MORE than a mouth piece...with no say...or filter over what is said....

in essence...if he is a tape recorder...tied to a loud speaker...if he is just an echo....a parrort if you will....then I don't think he is the man for this team...

He needs to stand on his won two feet...

why NeMo? To avoid giving up 70 sacks and wasting another season.

The real reason that Armando hates this new staff was just revealed. Thanks Mando.

The real reason is that this new staff sees right thru him and the stupid questions he likes to ask and they treat him as such. It must be infuriating getting played in public like that.

Spo was an idiot who didn't know how to speak in public and resorted to repeating the same cliches over and over. This staff puts on a fake smile and doesn't bad mouth each other or their team.

Philbin plays the Sfla media for the idiots they all are.

I think the biggest issue for the Fins O is trying to make the players fit PHILBINS "zone blocking scheme" instead of being flexible and making your system fit the talent on the team.

I think the biggest issue for the D is again no flexibility not willing to switch from the 4-3 to the 3-4, which seems to be a better fit for the players on this team.

There seems to be a serious disconnect between Philbin and Ireland.

I am old school look what Shula did as HC he coached 2 very distinctly different styles from the 70s to the 80s. The key being FLEXIBILTY!!

The mess that is currently known as the Miami Dolphins franchise, IMHO lays squarely at the feet of 5 People in this order

1-Ross
2-Ireland
3-Philbin
4-Sherman
5-Coyle(Coyle behind Sherm only because in todays NFL the O and D is completely unbalanced)

Since #1 isnt going anywhere maybe 2-5 should...

GO FINS

Posted by: 6bucks7games | November 20, 2013 at 08:10 AM

Just so you are infomred, i am not a Panthers fan, as I am a Dolphins fan. As a matter of fact i get crap from fans up here bc im not a Panthers fan. I have however been to a few games and seen their Dline.. they are good and they are led by a good LB in Kuechly.

Mark
We get hosed pretty regularly on pass interference calls and non-calls. Maybe they should be reviewable.

6 bucks,

if they reviewed calls, we would've killed the Pats in fxboro this year. Brady should be careful what he asks for.

The comments from Coyle on Jordan about his limited role that "we should get used to it" shows that if you are a rookie, you better get used to riding the bench until you "earn" playing time. Jordan is better than Vernon, just like in preseason we saw Davis is better than Carrol. Just like last year Egnew couldnt crack the roster until the end of the year and then this year he plays a pretty decent amount... They are about developing but at what point does it become counter productive bc the men playing in front of them arent as good. This isnt college back in the 60's where freshman were made to redshirt. This is professional football where careers can end in the blink of an eye and a year is wasted of their seemingly short pro football careers

I agree with the sentiment that if a guy proves he's not able to stay healthy, then the team should look for ways to cut ties with the player.

With that said, a good test will be after this Season. Patterson is a good CB when he's available, but that's rare. I like him, think he and Grimes are a good pair. But again, he's out every other game. And it's not just this Season (check his history). This guy is injury-prone. So the question becomes, does the team work to replace him, or do they continue to keep this liability on the team (because when he's out, the drop-off to the back-up is EXTREME).

Craig,

Hypocrisy is something that the sports media thrives in nowadays. That and Sensationalism. Sports talk has basically become day time TV for men. I think this whole scandal should be handled in an episode of the Jerry Springer Show. Put Incognito on one side of the stage and J.Martin on the other and ring the bell.

matty, that's a sore spot for me with these coaches. Don't think they invest enough inthe high draft pick's development. Even Tannehill wasn't supposed to play year one until Garrard got injured. If Matt Moore didn't stink so much in preseason, Tannehill wouldn't have this same experience under his belt.

Remember, this is a guy that came from a franchise that kept Aaron Rodgers on the bench for four years.

And this week, this shoudl e the game where we see the most extensive Dion Jordan. He is the one guy that can spy Newton or cover Olsen.

Mark,

My point exactly about the Pats game. Everyone wants to talk about "THE LAST PLAY". BUT that drive was extended by a BS Interference call about 3 plays before which would've ended the game with about a minute to go.

People LOOK at "THE LAST DRIVE", Not just The last play and you would see that "The Last Play" should've never happened.

mark, giddy ^
.
lol

Turner should be fired period. If a team is what their record says, then your sack numbers have to say what your offensive line coach is, and that is terrible!

if*, the phinz win on sun.
turner shuld be named hc
.
lol

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | November 20, 2013 at 10:23 AM

I want them to develope them and I can understand them sitting back not getting enough play time if the man in front of them is better but this isnt the case.
I agree Jordan should be utilized this week but we shall see how Coyle sees it and thus far he hasnt shown an ability to adapt PT for a player...
rotating Cam Wake when he's needed the most inside the red zone doesnt make sense either..

he's making chix salad out of chix chat
.
lol

u'll c a ton of dijon
he will be chasing newton all around the joe on sun.

This blind loyalty is a load of crap. Ross is weak for endorsing Philbin with no criticism, and Philbin is weak for complementing a coach in charge of the worst offensive line in team history. HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE!!!!!

how much do u want 2 make a 3 dollar bet 10:34 will come 2 fruition ?
.
lol

yeah Matty, I don't think Taylor or Davis would be better than Nolan Carroll if they play this Sunday but I think if they started playing them week one, they'd be better by now.

So mocks are calling for us to draft CBs early but I think one of these two guys will start for us next year, probably Taylor. Guy is just too talented to never get an opportunity.

Despite everything we are 5-5 and should easily be 7-3.

I think Philbin should be given another year if we win 8 games this year. And we might win 9.

To say this year is worse than the 1-15 Cam year is ridiculous.

We're in every game but one and should be 7-3 dudes.

A few first downs on 3rd and inches and 12 more points and we're 7-3.

And the O line and RB corp and Sherman are indeed pathetic. I think we should stick with Philbin another year (and Tanne) and see if we put it together next year with hopefully and improved running game, O line, and WR corps.

Kris,

We can agree to disagree.

I believe the Dolphins have handled this the best way possible. Like I said earlier the longer this plays out the more it hurts J.Martin. The media is/was doing the Fins a favor by ramrodding the fins first and not J.Martin. Cause they have ran out of stuff to say about the dolphins. Now they have to start talking about J.Martin. And J.Martin has a lot more holes in his story and how he has handled the situation than the dolphins have.

J.Martin went against his team- The first person he should've complained about being bullied was his coaches or the Front Office.

J.Martin went against the NFLPA- The second entity he should've contacted if the team didn't do anything. The Union would've filed a grievance on behalf of J.Martin. ( You are in the military, you go to JAG before you let a civilian handle it. Same thing)

J.Martin went against the NFL- The NFL is a Corporate MOB. If the CBA taught us anything is that you don't mess with 32 of the most powerful men in America. The last thing the NFL wants is for its "Brand" to be exposed. You don't mess with the brand unless you want to be blackballed by the league and its conglomerates.

Again, the Union is there for a reason. To protect its players!! Right after you go to the coaches and they don't do anything you talk with your team's union rep or with the Union directly and tell them you have a problem. They will handle the situation privately and discreetly.

J.Martin is the one who has made this a public spectacle.

Also, who's better than Philbin? Who's out there?

Philbin has shown that he can win games in the NFL, which is not a given.

Remember Cam Cameron dudes. Disaster.

I think Philbin does get respect from his players and it could go up with just a few more lucky bounces.

Philbin and Tanne could make us a contender next year. Gotta give them one more year.

Mark...

Do you think Grimes gets re-signed...

I think ths is the BEST FINS corner I have ever seen play...and YES...that involves Surtain and Madison....

they may have been better as a duo....but Grimes is better (imo) than either by himslef...guy is ALWAYS around the ball...and 8 times out of 10...if the pass is completed on him...it was dam near an perfect pass...

refs have gipped us 2 games too.

shoulda woulda coulda yadda yadda but seriously dudes we should be 7-3 seriously

kris they foe o never threw to surtains side.

Dashi, ur a 100% right. The martin family will indeed learn how strong the NFL is. It is a legit Mafia. You don't mess with them. Anyone seen Maurice Clarett recently?

meant to say 9-10 out of 10...

2 watt....lets not elevate Surtain to Deion Sanders level...

they guy isn't dead yet....

Dashi...

all really good points....

I expect Grimes to get re-signed. I mean, what upgrade out there is there?? You can maybe count them on one hand. As far as being better than Surtain or Madison.... those are all timers in my book. Need more than 10 games in a phins uniform to get that kind of praise from me.

But I will go into battle every day with Grimes. Glad the coaching staff woke up to the fact that he should be trailing the other team's best receiver.

It was ridiculous early on. The other teams would just put their best on Carrol or even Wheeler and put some scrub on Grimes and let him pick his nose all game.

Just a note on Surtain/Madison. Madison was the only guy I saw in the NFl at the time that could cover marvin Harrison. I mean, just wipe him out.

Surtain, he was what Sean Smith should've been. Big Strong, chuck the crap out of big guys and fluid enough to handle the more shifty guys.

3 pro Bowls for Surtain, 4 for Madison, every one of them earned.

however Dashi...

There have been "reports" that Martin did go to the FO...

We will know soon enough....

As of right now....it looks...and I say LOOKS like Martin is a wimp and a cry baby....

a few weeks ago...it LOOKED like COGS was the devil incarnate....

the truth will be somewhere in the middle...I believe...

but your post is/was well reieved nonetheless....

Armando,

It just could be that the Miami Dolphins need someone to evaluate an OL prospect. Moreover getting guys at the end of their careers is not the way to go. Colombo and Clabo show that to be true. Clearly not drafting DB Taylor, using the 2nd round pick in the draft to get KC's Albert, drafting an OG in the top 20 picks overall and spending money to keep the over priced Jake Long would have worked to the Dolphins advantage. That's the kind of thing that a good GM would do, knowing what his current OL was capable of and where to upgrade and not just on the cheap. If you want the Super Bowl you make moves to that end.

Kris,

I'm sympathetic towards J.Martin.

Well at first but not anymore.

This is Football, Not Futbol. No Sissies allowed in American sports.

You brought up a good argument "Is B.Grimes the Best CB in Dolphin History". That is a tough one for me. S.Madison was the man. But off pure talent alone you might be right.

We definitely need a new o line coach and offensive Coordinator for sure, philbin has to say these things for now but I am sure their will be changes made after all his job is on the line as well. Turner should be fired just based on this years o line performance and Sherman sucks , those two things make it difficult to determine whether Tannehill is our future or not. I am not sure his arm is strong enough after watching him lay for 26 games or so, he does have athletic ability but he is inconsistent most of the time series to series game to game. Any ways a win this Sunday would be sweet go FINS

It's simple really. If you ever want a chance to coach in the NFL again you don't bad mouth your assistants. You don't even do what Sparano did to Maser because it's an obvious put down.

And Sparano isn't coaching in the NFL, probably never will. No, not directly because of his effusive answer but it doesn't help. Assistants want to work for a coach who has their back and Philbin is hoping for another shot after he leaves Miami.

I love sitting in the sports bar during the FINS game...and telling the oppsing teams fan...

If they want to complete this 3rd down/game tying/winning TD pass....they had better NOT go to Grimes side....

and then just smile when Grimes knocks down the ball..or picks it off....

Grimes makes FIN FANS proud....finally somebody that we can hang our hat on...and KNOW that he is doing his job....

Dashi, you bring up football v futbol. No secret I'm a big soccer fan. Let me share an anecdote. In Portugal there is a major people and class divide between those that are from mainland Portugal and those that are from the island provinces. There was a bright young soccer prodigy from the island of Madeira who was taken from his home and asked to join the Sporting Clube de Portugal youth academy. He was a bright prospect but always considered about the 4th or 5th best young prosepct there. His father was a drunk (actualy drnak himself to death) and illetirate, the young kid spoke funny being from the island provinces and in that highly competitive environment was viewed as an outsider and picked on mercilessly. he often cried himself to sleep and just wanted to go home. But he perservered, he thrived and soon his gifts grew to big to overlook.

At the age of 17, he played in a friendly against Manchester United and played so well that the team purchased him right away and there was no turning back. His name is Cristiano Ronaldo.

The point .. toughness is something that is either in you or isn't. It isn't about using your fists, it's about perserverence. Martin had none of this quality. He was actually the furthest thing to the other end of the spectrum because he jsut didn't quit but is trying to take down all his teammates and the fans of the team down with him.

Martin is a punk bicch and I can't wait to see the NFL chew him up and spit him out by the time this is done.

Dashi...

I have lost my sympathy for Martin as well...

having said that...I still believe that whats right is right....and something was definetly wrong....

Martin is pressing on.....he was on the sidelines of the Stanford game the other day (not to yuk it up...as the media would spin it)...but to garner support from forer teamates...and to show the NFL that his former team stull loves him and welcomes him with open arms....

this is/was nothing more than a tactic...and it shows that he is moving forward with guns blazing...

Good PR move....im opinion....the FINS should consult his people...

By the way, I know that bit about Ronaldo because i have friends that also went to the Sporting Clube youth academy ... these are word of mouth accounts and not something I read in a soccer magazine or saw on tv. Kid went through a lot to be who he is today.


Thanks CocoaJoe, my favorite place on the entire eastern seaboard is Cocoa Beach and specifically Canaveral Pier, I refuse to call it anything else. My second favorite place has got to be Picnic Tables, great waves, great rock reef, I love surfing Brevard County waves!!!

Posted by: John In Springs | November 20, 2013 at 08:55 AM
=======================================================
LOL, you know your history. Do you remember when the Cape Canaveral city limits were just north of A1A & causeway intersection? Cocoa Beach and Cape Canaveral were in a pissing contest on city limits during the 70s. The pier actually was in Cape Canaveral until they finally decided city limits

Kris,

Sorry man, I'm just not getting you this morning. 'Not smart for Philbin to tie himself to others'? I'm not sure what you mean. At a time when this team is implodingt's not smart to. Be pointing fingers or acting aloof. They are ALL responsible for where this team is at and what's going on. Whether that cost people jobs remains to be seen.

I'm also of the mindset that we all control our own destinies. I think it's wrong to put blame on others. Martin didn't work hard enough in the offseason, put in extra work at OTAs, go out of his way to endear himself to his team mates? That's on him. Probably comes from working for myself for twenty years but my bosses are not responsible for my successes or failures. That's on me.

Kris,

I brought this theory up and got ramrodded myself here from our resident experts. But to me it seems the most logical for a big baby like J.Martin. J.Martin was homesick.

J.Martin probably told the team he was homesick. Cause I honestly believe that the coaches and FO didn't know he was being "Bullied". They knew he had issues, but no one believed being bullied was one of them.

Just check the facts. J.Martin hasn't left California since leaving the Dolphins. And he has said he doesn't want to comeback to Miami and prefers to go to a west coast team according to his representatives. Not just any team, but a west coast team.

Add that up to how big of a Momma's Boy J.Martin is. And the dots start to connect.

J.Martin only comes to SFLA when he has to. As soon as he can he always went back home. He never bought property down here. J.Martin never wanted to make Miami his home.

J.Martin lived his whole life in this little safe bubble, The minute he got drafted by Miami that bubble popped.

J.Martin was on the Fast Track to Harvard but chose Stanford because it was close to home.

J.Martin is a grown man physically but emotionally he is still a child and wanted to go back to Momma.

I guess we just see things in a different way. Jim Turner's a part of this. I just think it's wrong to be blaming him for what's gone wrong with the team.


There is also a Picnic Tables before you get to first light at Patrick Air Force base in Cocoa Beach,but the best breaking wave period on the East Coast of Florida is Sebastian Inlet.
The inlets in general are the best breaks in Florida.
The one at New Smyrna is good also as is Ft Pierce Inlet.
Canaveral Pier sucks for surfing relative to other spots like 1st and 2nd light at PAFB where their once was a pier but it was washed away and now it helps hold the sand in place on that beach break.

Posted by: Surfer Joe | November 20, 2013 at 09:28 AM
=======================================================
Before 'beach nourishments' you could count on lots of places in CCB area. But not anymore.

Doesn't it seem like the media in South Florida always hate the Dolphins coaches? It's weird, hear me out. I get that we have to question the coaching, everyone is accountable. But I read the stories, and they seem personal.

Most of the time they seem of a personal and attacking nature, as if the media members are MAD and are out for revenge against the coaches.

Am I wrong or are all the coaches trying to keep jobs in the NFL? And if they want to keep their jobs it probably means they are trying their very hardest to coach the players and win games.

But when you read the stories they come off almost accusatory, as if they believe the coaches are trying to sabotage the organization. Reporters like to point out all of the angst that Miami fans have gone through and how it is affecting our fandom. They should take a long hard look in the mirror and try to see how it is affecting their writing styles.

The coaches aren't out to get anyone they're just trying to do a job. In the opinion of an individual they may not be good at the job and that's fine but I wish they (reporters) would be a little more professional and not try to vilify these men, they are not bad people.

P78, sorry the Leafs bullied the Islanders yesterday...

Craig M....

I understand where you are coming from...but YOU haveto understand that...that is the minority in the workforce nowadays...

you screw up in a way that embarrases the company...people above your (subordinate) pay grade will suffer....

and tying yourself to a loser doesn't make you a winner....

If the team is imploding....then you had better find your way to a life boat...

Philbin has no credibility to VOUCH for others...he has only CUPABILITY in the whols sitiuation....

he has no great record of WIN v. losses to tout...

and I have already talked about his dubious actions when it comes to handing out discipline...If anything...he TIED himself to COGS by keeping the GOLF incident in house...which ALSO gives plenty of MOTIVE to have COGS bak when this whole thing started....

I really don't want to go down this road....but it doesn't take Ray Charles to see why Philbin was in CYA mode...

Mark @11:08, Great point.

Which is why I feel that my point @11:18 is valid.

Also, be proud fans! I always talk about how I hate people calling players names right? Here's a classic, "Tedd Ginn is the first woman to play in the NFL". I read that on twitter the other day. So now Tedd Ginn will probably play the game of his life Monday and it has nothing to do with getting revenge on the Phins, that ship has sailed. It's all about shoving it down the fans throats for him now. So dumb a#@ fans and their big mouths actually DO hurt their teams. Just stfu already. Dudes probably working out right now staring at that quote getting all pumped to put up 200 yards on Carroll.

* @11:13

Craig M is to blame for Global Warming.

The way this guy blows smoke up every ones arse, you can understand the effects it has on the environment!

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