« Mike Wallace calls it like it is | Main | Mike Pouncey back with the Dolphins »

Philbin endorses OL coach Jim Turner

Amid the ups and downs of this season and the drama and controversy of the past three weeks, one constant that has remained (unfortunately for the Dolphins) has been that the offensive line has always been at the core of the issues.

You know the facts: Forty-one sacks allowed to lead the NFL. Two starting linemen gone from the team because they were frenemies or something, guys benched, etc ...

And to me, that begs the question what responsibility does offensive line coach Jim Turner have in all this.

Well, let's get to the news. Whatever part Turner has played in any or all of Miami's offensive line problems and drama, he apparently has the blessing of his boss. That's because on Tuesday, Dolphins coach Joe Philbin gave Turner a pretty solid endorsement when I asked what kind of job the assistant has done so far this season.

"I thought he did a great job," Philbin began. "It’s evidence in the play of our guys the other day.  We had a lot of  moving parts and we’ve had some moving parts throughout the course of the season.  I think his players believe in him. I think he works hard every single day and he’s done a good job."

Now, I understand Philbin isn't going to throw Turner under the bus if he believes the assistant has stunk. That's simply not done. But there are ways to finesse this if the head coach wants to without losing credibility.

You'll recall Tony Sparano was asked in 2008 what kind of job then offensive line coach Mike Maser was doing. I recall because I asked the question. And Sparano said something akin to "he's busy doing his job and he'll be evaluated at the end of the season just like we'll all be evaluated at the end of the season."

That was no an endorsement, particually in light of the fact he was being effusive about other assistants when asked. And apparently Sparano took that tact for good reason because after a season in which Dolphins quarterbacks were sacked 26 times, Maser was fired. Seems Maser rubbed some players the wrong way and actually, get this, was a bit of a bully at times, according to club sources who spoke to me at the time.

The irony.

Anyway, that's not the approach Philbin took on Tuesday. His was a full-blown attaboy for Turner. And that is fine if that's how Philbin feels.

But I'm not so sure the facts jibe with the kudos. The Dolphins have given up 78 sacks in the two years Turner's been the offensive line coach -- and there are still six games to play this season.

Now, sacks are not the full measure of an offensive line coach. After all, quarterback awareness in the pocket affects that number as does inexperienced or poor pass protection from backs. But then there's this:

One player was very good before Turner arrived and has been very good after leaving didn't play nearly as well under Turner. Jake Long was ProFootballFocus's No. 21-rated tackled in 2011 before Turner joined the Dolphins. Last year under Turner, Long dropped to the No. 46-rated tackle in the NFL, according to PFF. This year with the St. Louis Rams, he is the No. 7 rated offensive tackle.

And it is not just Long.

Last year with Atlanta, right tackle Tyson Clabo was the No. 14-rated offensive tackle in the NFL, according to PFF. He allowed only five sacks, including none in the final 14 games he played including the playoffs.

This year with the Dolphins?

Clabo has allowed 10 sacks, has not been able to string together even two games without allowing a sack and is the No. 66-rated tackle in the NFL, per PFF. Did he suddenly forget how to play the game? Did he suddenly lose not one, but several steps at age 32?

Center Mike Pouncey is pass blocking much better now under Turner than he did as a rookie in 2011 before Turner. But how much of that is the fact Pouncey's simply more experienced? And his run blocking in 2013 actually is not as good as it was in 2011.

Now, I'm not saying everyone takes a step back under Turner. Richie Incognito's work got much better under Turner. And John Jerry became a full-time starter under Turner.

But Jerry has already given up twice as many sacks this year (4) as he did last year (2) and there are still six more games to play. And Incognito ... well, let's not go there.

 

 

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Philbin should assess all the offensive coaches starting with the OC. The thing about coaching in the NFL like any job is that you coach everyone not just the players, but even the other coaches. Why would Sherm bring in so many inexperienced coaches if not to teach them? Or maybe he likes assistants that don't talk back?

..Mark in Toronto..Great story about Renaldo.I wish he would go back home to United. Did you see any of the games from yesterday yet?

Mando, it reminds me of Bush saying
"Brownie is doing a heck of a job" during Katrina :-)

Kris, what you are saying is right but what Philbin or anyone associated with the Dolphins and what they say to the media has no bearing to what is actually ebing said inside ... I stopped reading intereviews with the media years ago, they're worthless. Today a gm says, we believe in this coach, tomorrow when it's in the best interest of the team, they fire said coach. The original pat on the back is meaningless.

Why say anythign bad about anyone right now or indicate your true feelings, it's pointless and nothing good comes of it.

We will truly know everyones plac in this org going forward after the season is over and not a minute before.

And if you think this behaviour is limited to sports or our franchise, it's not.

The exact same day Lehman Bros folded up shop, the CEO gave a press conference to ensure everything was ok and investors should continue to have faith in the company.

LOL at all the dumb fans on this blog who thought RG3 and Kaepernick would be better long term QBs then Tannehill

I have an idea for the Panther game. How about a hybrid 3-4 that is disguised as a 4-3?

We put Jordan on the field every time Olsen is out there, but he lines up as a linebacker, and strictly covers the TE. Even follows him across the line on shifts. That leaves vernon,starks,solai/odrick, and wake on the line. Use Vernon as a mirror on Newton. He would in essence be the 4th lber in a 3-4. Hold the block, watch for the run, but don't let Newton break contain. Back off your block a bit to allow yourself room to hunt him down the moment he decides to take off. Or maybe Odrick would be more suited for that role. Jordan would be perfect but he is the only one who can cover tight ends and Olsen will rip us up if we don't get him covered.

Or do you just figure Newton will get his yards anyway so limit the damage and keep running your same defense?

Armando Salguero needs to shut the hell up already. Miami is 5 - 5 & in the playoff hunt, even though Miami is going through all this adversity & played without 2 or 3 starting offensive lineman for the last couple weeks. Did Armando also forget that this team had a lot of new faces on the team this year (meaning that jellying together would take some time)? How about the 2 major injuries in loosing Dustin Keller & Brandon Gibson for the entire season? You can not judge a offense solely on sacks alone, you have to judge the offense by the overall team success. When you have had all the misfortunes this team has run into this year & remained in the playoff hunt, I call that pretty successful. SO GO CRAWL BACK INTO YOUR LITTLE WHOLE SALGUERO !

DD, I did see it and CR7 laid claim to that national team being HIS team ... full ownership.

I too wish he would go back home to United. To me that was the most fun I ever had watching club soccer. His time at Real is boring to me - I hate that club...

And one thing I left out is that during this time of mistreatment at the academy, he was only about 12, 12 years of age. A boy. the true cornw prince at the time at the academy was a player by the name of Ricardo Quaresma. This guy was given everything from day one at the club and was supposed to be the heir apparent to Luis Figo... didn't quite turn out that way.

Mark it was horrible. Trading Moulson may have killed our team chemistry. Also, not having a decent goalie is getting old.

So how many of your dumb opinions are controlled by the media. I bet you think Blake Griffin is a too 5 NBA player as well. Lol! Oh the agony!

BoulderPhn...

great point....

Mark...I understand your post as well....I don't give credence to any journalistic article without "quotes"....as far as I am concerned...no quotes...no article....

but in the end..your right...we will only get the true pulse of Mr. Ross with in about 48-72 hours after the final whistle....

Great post at 10:01 Kris.

P78, any way you slice it, Jordan should be on the field almost every down either mirroring Newton or covering Olsen.

Also, this may a game where you revist last year's d line of Wake, Starks, Soliai, and Odrick at DE for a healthy amount of the downs. Pass rush is not too important against Carolina. You want Newton in the pocket and play coverage because the boy still has not touch in the pocket.

P78, I loved the Islanders trading away Moulson, guy was always big against the Leafs...

And P78, goaltending is to hovkey as Qbs are to football. You will only go as far as it will take you. I mean, Pittsburgh and Chicago should win every year if goaltending wasn't the most important factor.. check out who's having the bes tyear team wise, look who the best goalies in the league are that year.

..Kris...Great posts today..Spot on IMO..Well done.

Mark..Yeah that was some game Renaldo had..We made the mistake of flipping it over to England-Germany after the first Renaldo goal. I have no idea why. England is garbage, and Germany is Germany...Anyway we looked at the ticker and it was 2-1 Sweden...WTF..You must have been sweating it a bit at that point.

Mark I would rather have a d-line of Vernon,Odrick,Starks, and Wake because of their speed against the speed of the Panthers. And Jordan taking up Wheeler or Misis spot (as necessary) to pass rush and cover Olsen. I'm not worried about Carolinas runs up the middle so if I'm Coyle I'm giving Solai less reps Sunday. I think Carolinas speed and strength is to the outside so I want my fastest guys in there. Misi would stay in more than Ellerbe and Wheeler if I'm making the call.

Florida Education seriously? RG3 and garcon are going to be great together! And Kaepernick took his team to the super bowl. Maybe you should let the media make better opinions for you LOL!

I know Mark, we Islander fans are trying to think of a way to get Billy Smith back into the fold ;)

Have some work to do gentlemen, be back later.

DD, I'm always sweating watching Portugal play but I was pretty comfortable because of the away goals rule. But I wish for once they would just take qualifying more seriously and avoid thsi playoff nonsense. That same team ripping Sweden apart was too busy dropping points to israel and Northern Ireland in qualifying... seriously!!

England is a funny one. Solid team but I think they've hurt their national product by being the choice destination of so many international stars thus not giving as many jobs to the domestic players. England will be heard from next summer though, I'm sure.

At some point, the players need to learn things on their own and not depend on the coaches. Coaching is just that - coaching. The players are reponsible for their performance. All players in the NFL are force fed more than enough info in order to be successful. It they are not learning, it's their fault. It's true there are some bad coaches, and some great ones. The rest really fall in that 80% bell curve and making position coach changes usually lead to no improvement. I don't think the great Vince Lombardi could coach up this Oline.

Philbin should be given a contract extension through 2017.

Newton suffers from Henneitis. He doesn't switch velocity on his short passes. His arm only has one speed, Laser.

This is one of the reasons I can't stand when people make asinine post comparing Henne to Tannehill. Tannehill has Touch. Henne never had touch. Henne would throw 5 yard lasers that would bounce off his own players and into the defenses hand.

After Philbins endorsement of an o-line coach that has most of his players regressing and is on pace to break an NFL record for sack allowed, all I can do is laugh.

Philbin is such a con artist. Don't try to pi$$ on my leg and tell me its raining. In my book Philbin and Turner have this 0-line playing awful football.

Don't just look at the stats look at the body of work they have put together all season long. The Thill apologists that see nothing wrong with him are the same bunch that praise these mediocre players and coaches that have us hanging in by a thread to a wild card place.

...First I apologize to the blog. I know this isn't a footie blog. But there was some huge games yesterday. And for my money the World Cup is easily the best event in sport..So it merits some discussion.

I think England is a bottom feeder in that second tier of teams...A quarterfinal would be about as far as I would think they can make it...To me it is about the style of play. I love the Prem. I love the style. But most of the world plays with much more skill, and finesse. Rather then the ol' guts and glory you get from a traditional England team. The way the game is refereed in England IMO ultimately hurts the National team in big tourneys...Anyway we will see. Can't wait..

I happen to like Sparano's answer, I think it's exactly right. This is a results-oriented profession. Losses on the field equate to loss of jobs. It's just how it is. Everyone is accountable at the end of the season.

It's fine for Philbin to stand behind his position coach, but if we give up the most sacks in history, and SOMEONE WILL be held to account, then if not the position coach, you'll have to move up to the OC or HC or GM. The players are already toast. We'll be acquiring 3 minimum (most likely 4 if not 5) new linemen after this season. Maybe Philbin can convince Ross with that turnover, he'll be able to pick the linemen to fit his system, and to give him another chance to prove it's not on the coaching staff, but we'll see if Ross is willing to bet on that given that he's shelling out money left and right to prevent blackouts during home games that no one's coming to.

Now, No QB stands next to Dan the Man when it comes to arm talent.

Anyone saw the Skills challenge yesterday?

If it wasn't for our O-Line being in shambles I will suggest bringing back the most prolific passer in history. Dan can still sling it with the best of him.

Oh, and D.McNabb is a prick.

Dasshi, I agree about Newton. You take the run game away and not rrush him then you will beat him. He's the kind of Qb that will overshoot a wide open WR... I'm more than happy with teh Dolphins playing run and coverage and almost forgetting about rushing the passer. it's when you rush Newton that things break down and he makes you pay. He's not good enough from the pocket. You see it by watching him and you see it in his stats. 218 pass yards per game.

Grimes should be sticking to Smith all day and Jordan on Olsen .. Lafell sucks ....

Fire them all. Lets roll in 2014

QB most important position barr none.

Thill ranked 22 offically and 28th in NFL QBR, thats good enough is it ?

Turnover machiene at 16. At this cuurent rate he is on course for 26 for the season thats an increase on his ROOKIE year off 40%.

Thill apologist's blame.

The o-line
Wallace
Shermans playing calling
Having no RB's
Bullygate
Philbin
Oh and the favourite: Jeff Ireland.

Its the same old arguement to defend Thill at all costs. Good QB's deal with all those things and make the players around them great, or at least better.

Not being able to use a guy like Wallace deep is very telling on Thill. I watch his throws and he never really geats into them with his shoulder and hips, his mechanics deep are truly terrible.

I hope we draft a QB next year highly and Thill gets replaced. He isn't good enough !!!

? 78. u'r a phinz phan
a bulls fan
and an islanders fan? wtf?
u'r like dog poop
u'r everywhere
lol

Thill has touch, yeah on passes under 10 yards my friend.

He struggles to throw the ball deep accurately. The further downfield his recievers the less chance he has to get it there.

The best deep ball he has thrown all year may be the one that was called for PI against the Bengals, intended for Wallace. So far I've not seen any evidence that he can through the ball deep accurately, when his WR is open and he has time. No way goood enough at this stage in his career.

Mark in T.

I'd like to see Jordan shadow Newton for the most of the game. He has the speed and size to shut him down and would be a big confidence boots for him.

Against the Panthers we should really be aggressive as we were with the Chargers. They on paper should bury us.

marco, mark smokes crack with rob ford so he thinks he is watching the phinz but it's gb and aaron rogers he's looking at
.
lol

lol, you take away all Newton's attributes, the biggest one being a winner, and he's just an ordinary QB.

Come on guys, step your game up. Downplay him all you want, but he's LEADING his team to victories. More TDs, less INTs (than Tannehill), clutch when he needs to be, and has the added dimension of running (and doing a better job of it than RG3 and Kaepernick). The guy is on fire. He's the last QB I would want to see this week, I'd rather see Brady.

DC,

Ross is being reimbursed for his blackouts by the league. With the new TV contracts it makes more business sense to lift the blackouts even if you have an empty stadium.

If Ross buys the rest of the tickets. He is basically paying himself. So it is silly to think that it actually cost the owners money. I find that the biggest okey Doke the league pulls on the fans.

That is without even saying that the league has lowered the amount of seats required to lift a blackout.

But still I find it funny that league has fooled the masses with the blackout trick. If an Owner buys tickets, Who is getting the money? The Owner.

The League isn't just fooling the Fans they are fooling the TV stations. The TV stations are OK with it cause they need to Televise the game, they are already paying the league sellout or no Sellout.

dc, that's all the homers' have is to downplay everything that is not phinz
.
lol

i don't kno 'bout brady dc
he is pretty pixxed this week
.
lol

DC, who is saying Newton isn't great at the moment ?

Thill has more turnovers than TD's. Newton has the skills I'd only dream we had in Thill. Against the Pats he took the game by the scruff off the neck and won it.

Thill goes into the fetal position on those scrambles Newton did to keep his team alive.

Fetal Thill. Look out for it Thill fans, its his favourite move in the pocket when things go wrong.

2 watt, come smoke my crack, hahahaa

DC, Newton is having a fine year but putting him up there with the best?? Uhm, no. He is broderline top ten though which is more than good enough to win it all with tho, granted.

And I will also grant the kind of year Newton is having in year 3 is the kind of season I want/expect to see in Tannehill next year or very close. I think he's capable.

Thill record at QB = 12-14, FAIL
Thill more career turnovers than TD's = FAIL
Thill turnovers increase. pro rata by 40% = FAIL

Thill Forward Fast.

What's with all of the talk regarding the OH-Line? In the off-season, Ireland said the OH-Line was in good shape---no need to improve through the draft?!

Mark T, you must be joking old boy.

Thill is nowhere near that level of play in anyway. You hope and pray he is as good as Newton. Your really showing your ability to judge talent is as good as Irelands.

63% pass completion, 251 ypg, 7.3 yards per pass attempt, 2 tds per game, 92 passer rating, 3.3% turnover to pass attempt ratio. A lot of key metrics checked off there for Newton...

Still think you're better forcing him to pass though. When you rush too far upfield and when you let their rush game have their way with you is when this offense is at it's best.

Play this one the opposite of what you would do with manning brees or brady. Instead of attack, play run, play more coverage, have more players with their faces looking at Newton, it's your best bet.

Marco, I get your point. you don't like tannehill. i do. I stick to my guns. If it wasn't for the higher # of turnovers, he would be having that kind of year. Alone through having a better line, the turnovers will go down. Until next year, we have nothing more to discuss ...

You people still amaze me at times.

The T-Hill sucks thing is getting about as old as some of you are. It just shows your ignorance. I'm not going to get into that atrocious argument for the 1001 Time. But for your sake, Accuracy and Touch are 2 different things. But keep spewing your ignorance. Mechanics. STFU Clown. Tannehill has great mechanics. He throws the Football exactly like the greatest QB in Dolphin history. Yes, T-Hill and Marino have the same delivery. You know who has the same delivery P.Rivers. but sure T-Hills mechanics suck. If your mechanics suck you can't throw on the run. That is a proven fact.

On Newton. Dashi didn't say Newton sucks. Newton is better than RG3, Kaep, and any other mobile QB.

I REPEAT!! Newton only has one speed on his arm. That isn't an indictment on his QB skills. Just that it is the flaw in his game.

You know who else only had one speed on his arm. B.Favre. And he managed to throw a bunch of yards.

But sure, You are smarter than everyone else and we should all bow down to you and your supreme knowledge and understanding of the game.

GTFOH!! Take the wedgie out your ass and the pole out your mouth.

Not talking to you DC. Talking to the clown who comes here using different names and has zero integrity. He knows who he is.

Waiting for an ignorant response you Punk B'tch!!

Daryl D...Phins 78...

Thanks...

I have my rare moments....

Dashi,

"He throws the Football exactly like the greatest QB in Dolphin history. Yes, T-Hill and Marino have the same delivery. You know who has the same delivery P.Rivers. but sure T-Hills mechanics suck. If your mechanics suck you can't throw on the run. That is a proven fact", Dashi, lord of the overstatement, Nov-14.

You just compared Thill to Marino, ha ha. Game over.

With that my friend I've heard the best joke I've heard all week. Cheers Chappie, Im still laughing BHAHHHHH !!!

I haven't seen Newton play this year...

I'm looking forward to seeing what he does...and hoping for a regession to the 2012 Newton...as opposed to the 2011 or new and improved 2013 vesion...

The O line schemes has to coordinate with the offensive scheme which is under Sherman. Sherman runs a BS offense. The O Line scheme is horrific and does not utilize the skill set of the players. A zone scheme demands smaller quicker players, not bigger slower players.

Mark T,

Come mate don't run away from your arguement now. YOu seem to have most of the bloggers on your side to hide behind. I stick with you, because I like your points, however don't do a Martin and hide now.

It isn't a comparison.

The Mechanics are the same.

To use a line from one of your fellow trolls or maybe you.

You have reading comprehension problems.

Mixing accuracy and touch. And now this.

Explain. How T-Hills mechanics are different than Marino. Since you are an expert on throwing mechanics.

Same mechanic.

T-Hill, Marino, and P.Rivers all have almost identical mechanics. No wind up and it looks like they short arm the ball.

Explain the difference. Throwing Mechanics expert.

Marco, there is nothing to discuss because you don't have a question and neither do I. I see Tannehill improving and think he merits another year because he's above board on several key metrics for qbs.

You get stuck on the one area he's strugging and ignore everything else.

Therefore, there's no discussion to be had and we can only see what happens a year from now. Until then any time wasted on discussion is useless.

Kris if Newton and Tannehill were cloned together you would have one great qb.

Newton can't hit the side of a barn with short passes. Tannehill can't hit the side of a barn with deep passes.

Biggest disappointment this year is the run defense and Reshad Jones. Run defense has regressed which seems like a combo of no Dansby and big boys not balling . Jones looked like a huge playmaking safety last year when he was allowed to roam. This year getting burned in man coverage.

That and not using Jordon correctly as an outside linebacker makes me think Coyle is our weakest coach.

T-hill is perplexingas seems to make great intermediate throws but can’t get it deep? Happy with his scrambling last week and the one read option was set up nicely.
Would like to see him sling it deep when he scrambles.

« 1 2 3 4 5 »

The comments to this entry are closed.