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Reports: Dolphins knew internally despite denials

Several new layers of the onion that is the Incognito-Martin-NFL review scandal are being peeled back by ProFootballTalk.com and Monday Morning Quarterback this morning. And believing the information in both items should make the Dolphins cry.

In PFT, Mike Florio reports "Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland received a call from Martin’s agent, Rick Smith, before Martin left the team on October 28. Smith complained to Ireland about the manner in which Incognito was treating Martin.

"Ireland, according to the sources, suggested to Smith that Martin physically confront Incognito. Ireland specifically mentioned that Martin should “punch” Incognito."

In MMQB, Peter King had former Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha write a first-person account of what he saw in the Dolphins locker room of the relationship between Incognito and Martin and the rest of the organization. And he writes, in part, this:

"Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous."

And taken on its face -- and if true -- this is truly problematic for Dolphins coaches and Ireland.

If the NFL Review, which began Wednesday, shows that one of Martin's agents alerted Ireland and thus the Dolphins that his client felt uncomfortable or harassed or bullied or upset in any fashion and the response from someone as high in the Dolphins command structure as Ireland was to simply suggest Martin "punch" Incognito, it shows a callous disregard for Martin's well-being.

If, as Murtha contends, coaches know everything, then we have a conspiracy on our hands.

And worse, we have a cover-up.

Consider that Dolphins coach Joe Philbin has said on numerous occasions the Dolphins didn't know anything about Martin's uncomfortable feelings regarding Incognito. Consider that on Sunday -- a full six days after Martin left the team and Philbin visited him at the hospital where he was seeking emotional help -- the Dolphins released a statement dismissing allegations of bullying as merely "speculation."

And yet ... these reports.

The Dolphins can only hope that context and full disclosure and facts over opinion all work on their behalf to overshadow this kind of information.

What do I mean by that?

Well, take the Florio report. Obviously there are only two people on that phone conversation between Ireland and Smith. And Ireland isn't talking to anyone per the Dolphins policy of not commenting during the ongoing NFL review and Smith is obviously the source.

And as Smith's agenda is to show cause on Martin's behalf, the information does exactly that.

But I cannot believe an agent calls an NFL GM and they talk about a topic so sensitive and the only theme coming out of the conversation is "punch" Incognito. Ireland would have to be an unserious goof for that to be true. (And he is not).

Perhaps he suggested Martin "punch" Incognito in passing. And perhaps after doing that, the phone call became more serious. We. Do. Not. Know.

One thing: Ireland has two autistic daughters. He knows what it is to have children who are singled out on a daily basis. I find it hard to believe he simply dismissed the idea that one of his players was being singled out in such a cavalier manner.

[Update: Florio, a friend who honors me by reading this blog, emailed me this morning when he saw this post. He writes in part: "The context was that Smith was complaining about Incognito and Ireland expressed confusion as to why this was an issue and said that Martin should go punch him."]

As to Murtha's contention that coaches knew. That is entirely possible. His saying it makes it sound probable. Yet, he does not know. The last time Murtha was in the Dolphins locker room was during the 2012 training camp. It's been fully 15 months since he's been around.

So he's speculating. As Peter King, who runs MMQB, is a good reporter, I assume he read Murtha's draft assertions and asked questions. And the question that begs asking is, "Which coaches know? Name names."

No one is named by Murtha. He paints the assertion with a wide brush stroke. And this investigation is going to require precision stenciling.

So we need specifics. We need more context. We need more information.

But if the allegations in these two reports are accurate, Ireland and the coaching staff are in a world of trouble.

 

 

Comments

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Excellent news for the franchise. It would have been difficult to fire Ireland and Philbin if this team finished 8-8. We all know Philbin does not have what it takes to be an NFL head coach and that Ireland is garbage. However, Ross likely would have kept them on board and the fans would have to suffer more years of mediocrity. Now Ross has little choice but to clean house. He needs to put up big time money to hire the best GM and best head coach available. No more "projects" or first time head coaches.

Although I agree with the thought of Martyin being a grown man and fighting back, you simply cannot advocate violence. It's more than an NFL locker room. It's a workplace.

But, for god sakes, Martin is a P*SSY. He joked with teammates about the voice mail. He's pranked teammates himself.

Just today I told a fellow coworker VERY bad things about his mama, as I do almost every day, and like he does almost everyday, laughed & said worse about my mom.

Neither of us ran to anyone to complain. Martin isn't cut out for the NFL. PERIOD. But, if this whole dilema finally ends the Ireland regime, I won't be crying like Martin when it comes to a close.

Nice job on Mike and Mike this morning Mando. Good analysis here too. Too many folks are drawing conclusions - including Mark Schlereth - without knowing enough of the facts

By the way, from all indications it appears that Martin has exaggerated the situation and is using it as an excuse for walking out on the team. That said, I don't care why Ireland and Philbin are fired so long as they are gone.

this is great news, please find more on ireland, lets get rid of this clown

I really find the Ireland issue just martins camp blowing smoke. The whole thing seems like a cash grab and they are losing leverage every minute as more truths come out.

Florio hates the Dolphins... nuff said

If true, I can't wait for the Ireland apologists to try to spin their way out of this one! Right M? LOL

How dead wrong you've all been.

FOR 5 YEARS WE'VE HEARD HOW HE'S ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD. Fisher spurning us wasn't cause of him.
He was right to ask about a players mama.
Now, promoting physical confrontations.

This is the douche you've all supported for 6 years.

This time, instead of a banner flying overhead, stands should be put up outside the Dolphins' offices and fans should come and cheer as that scumbag Ireland and his worthless coaches are being escorted out of the building with their personal belongings.

Hey Ross, unlike your stadium, these seats will be filled…..

If the players knew nothing and were blindsided by this, it's easy to believe Philbin didn't know there were problems. Anyone (including myself) who has dealt with people having psychological issues knows how that person's emotions can turn on a dime. Based on what has recently come out, it sounds to me like that is what happened. But who knows - this story changes daily.

Quick Question:

Has anyone talked to the Hard Knocks production team as to whether they had any film/observations regarding this matter? I mean, they were allowed to tape coaches meetings, etc. and only used a couple minutes.

Florio hates the Dolphins... nuff said

Posted by: Tito | November 07, 2013 at 09:35 AM

Doesnt everyone?

Some people learn nothing from the voicemail and that lesson is less than a week old.

Funny, the same clowns who came on here and convicted Incognito of being a racist are the same ones saying all Ireland told the agent was for Martin to be more aggressive.

First off, who knows how much of that conversation centred around that advice and who knows what else Ireland said.

Second, HELLO you puzzies, this is the NFL. He is job is to punch and shove 300lbs men that want to hurt his QB. Telling him to be more aggressive comes with teh territory. This is not telling your son to be stand up for himself. Martin by his job description needs to be aggressive, needs to be able to stand up for himself and needs to be violent.

Mando, just listened to you and Dan Patrick scratching your heads and asking "what's missing?" Possibly what is missing is the understanding of mental illness.

Pete, theres a flip side to that coin. If it's true Ireland know....It's hard to not believe the coaches, did not know.

Evidently. Philbin visited Martin in the hospital and then claims he has no knowledge? WTF?

So, the Martin camp leaks the Ireland information. Telling Martin to punch Cogs if he needed to is actually one of Ireland's best moves in his time here.

Good stuff from Lydon Murtha in MMQB

Martin did not want to pay for the o-lineman dinner as a rookie. Richie was more kind to Martin than any other player. The voice mail was from a place of humor, but he screwed up using the n-word. Cogs has called Martin it before and all he did was laugh.

The vegas trip for the O-line is paid for in advance. Martin agreed to go then backed out, it wasn't an emergency. The lunch table thing is a running gag that has happened for years Murtha says.

no way to sugar coat it Jeff needs to go the guy needs to go now and after he goes the whole coaching staff goes we need a fresh start no more garbage look at this idiots record he drafted Martin a lost 2 rounder some real GMs had this guy rated in the 6 round by the way again the rest of our draft this year is inactive every week what does that say about this years draft he signed incognito if Ross does not fire him everybody that goes to games I don't know why you go needs to go with bags on their head

Mando, You getting better. Let the facts play out. I have heard absolutely no facts except for Icognito phone and text messages for which he has been suspended. What I have not heard is exactly the extent of the harassment, what Martin did to address the harassment (i.e, did he talk with coaches prior to his walkout?), and what drove him over the edge now (i.e, I can't believe it is a silly lunchroom prank). What I think will be found is that Martin was a fragile individual who not seek any help and Icognito and the Dolphins were oblivious to that (as are most of us when a co-worker chooses to keep his private life private).

Wow. My fellow Jeff Ireland fans and apologists and I have some pretty heavy lifting to do on this blog today...

Incognito's been kicked off of every team he's ever been on......for good reason. He's a very bad apple, not the guy you want on your team. Dungy, Ditka, the KC GM, all said they would never have an Incognito on their team.

Thank you Lydon Murtha! Even though you were terrible here, at least now you are useful! Incognito is being made a scapegoat by Martin, his agent and his family for his troubles in the league. Martin seems to have severe mental issues and is probably suffering from manic depression. If I were Incognito I would sue Martin, Philbin, Ireland and the Dolphins, win $100 million and go live on an island somewhere.

Yo Jeffy,

Is your momma a hooka?

Today is a good day for lots of posts about how respected Jeff Ireland is around the league and the great job he did scouting players for the Dallas Cowboys.

Every reporter who rushed to judgement and condemned Richie without knowing any facts should have their immunity removed and sued until they are streetwalkers for their irresponsible 'journalism.'

Armando quotes Florio who quotes unnamed 'sources' from 'around the league.' Either everyone's phone is tapped or Florio is a liar. There were two people on the call and one of them wouldn't have said squat to Florio. How would 'sources' from 'around the league' know anything.

These aren't journalists - they are high school gossip queens. If this rumor is true, or that rumor is true, it means this. Yeah... and if my mother had a willy, she would be my father. Shut up already and stick to reporting facts - you know, those things backed up by evidence.

And what is wrong here? A guy can't simmply be mentally fit for a certain job so it has to become litigiious? He has to take other people down with him? Where's the honour in any of this??

LOL, I'm no fan of Ireland, but the article says Ireland got a call from Martin's agent before he left the team. That sounds like the call was made immediately before he left the team, not months or weeks ago. Obviously from that call forward Ireland and likely Philbin knew what was going on...at least in Martin's head, if not in the locker room.

Really? Isn't it obvious this Martin kid is weak sauce? I'm tired of this travesty.

Say What - Philbin visited Martin in the hospital. That was after he left the team when the whole world knew about it by that time. Philbin is saying, as are the other players, that he didn't know about any problems between the two leading up to Martin's departure.

And what is wrong here? A guy can't simmply be mentally fit for a certain job so it has to become litigiious? He has to take other people down with him? Where's the honour in any of this??

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | November 07, 2013 at 09:57 AM

Cogs is just an A-hole

What did the coaches know? - that Richie and Jonathan were friends and Richie "treated him better than anyone else"? No one wants to listen to the players on the team - everyone wants to just make up their own minds about what happened. This thing is getting absolutely ridiculous. Mark Schreleth on Mike and Mike - what a putz. These guys don't want to hear the truth - an article was written by someone on the team and no one wants to talk about that - only the negative.

I bet if Jon Martin was given truth serum right now - he would say that he regrets handling this situation this way. Now he has to take his marching orders from his attorney because its all about money.

This is a waste of airspace manufactured by people who don't have anything better to write about. There is NOTHING new under the sun. Parity has mostly made this league boring, and any chance to blow a story out of proportion helps mask that fact.

TGH, Incognito was kicked off the Rams and Bills for being over the top aggressive with oppoenents and taking too many personal fouls. He's never had issues with his own teammates.

Pete, I agree. However, Philbin still may have lied. He has denied having any info on the abuse.

If Ireland knew the day Martin left. He OBVIOUSLY told Philbin thus informing him. And all his denials since are lies.

I don't care really, it's all speculation. All I can hope for is that this is finally the last nail in Ireland's coffin.

It's still disturbing that this may cost him his job but, his overall job performance won't. Ross is clueless but, as long as the end result is what I want, I can't complain.

If Ireland did advocate Martin to punch cogs, even though I agree, he is the GM. A person in his position of authority cannot condone violence in the workplace.

What a boner of a move if it's true!

PRINT THE WHOLE LETTER, NOT YOUR SLANT ON IT MONDO!!!!

ARMANDO, YOU WERE ABOVE THE SPECULATION, BUT NOW YOU POST A SPIN ON AN ARTICLE THAT MYRTHA WROTE WITHOUT THE CONTEXT OF THE WHOLE THING.

YOU ARE JUST AS BAD AS THE NATIONAL MEDIA, AND YOU HAVE LOST A TON OF A RESPECT FROM ME, AND I HOPE OTHER READERS.

LOSER.

this becomes more of a joke by the day...."we have a conspiracy on our hands"?--geez, Gomer (I mean Mando), REALLY?--do you think?--wow, are you and many others so naive as to think that the coaches and many others didnt know something was going on?--BUT, as the Saints did last year, and most other teams/coaches/execs would do....they didnt tell the truth about it, because they figured it would get handled internally--like it does ALMOST EVERYWHERE!--it might cost some jobs, which is a shame....but you cant tell me this stuff, and the possible coverup of details, doesnt happen across the league

This story has too many legs. I'm not making any more judgments until all the facts come out. But I stick to my original view that this whole mess is a stain on the entire organization and that both Incognito and Martin have played their last down for the Miami Dolphins. Good riddance to them both.

The good that may come out of this is the team rallies around each other and uses this as motivation to WIN. FOOTBALL. GAMES! Like the saying goes, all will be forgotten (if not forgiven) if that happens.

LOL, it's hard to believe Ireland would say that. Hartline essentially said in his video, why would you ask someone with Incognito's track record to do that? Also hard to believe when Ireland has two autistic kids who would certainly have risk of being bullied themselves. If Ireland did say that, he should be gone ASAP. With Philbin, it's a question of timing regarding when he says he had know knowledge of abuse.

What a mess.

I'm hopeful that Martin can return and be treated like a human being. He can be a productive RT for a long time for us. If he doesnt file suit he'll be back.

Heres my question - WHERE IS JON MARTIN? WHEN IS HE GOING TO TELL HIS SIDE OF THE STORY? HE HAS ALL THE PROTECTION HE NEEDS NOW.

again.....normal people, in normal society/jobs/life.....should stop trying to apply their rules/code/attitudes.....to the world/code/attitudes of nfl players/locker rooms--different worlds, polar opposites.....thats the problem--dont have to like or accept their rules/conduct/code.....but respect it.

More brilliance from ESPN. latest editorial piece in this saga..

What Makes A Man?In light of another controversy, it's time to re-examine what defines "real men" in sports. Kate Fagan

What makes a man in team sports written by a woman ...

Tune in tomorrow when I write an editorial on what makes a real woman ballerina...

Lydon Murtha??? HAHAHAHAHAH!!! These Jack!asses are really reaching now...

DC - I agree - they need to get the "us against the world mentality" - like the old Georgetown teams. They are either going to go in the tank or band together.

NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT HOW MARTIN WAS UNHAPPY MOVING BACK TO RIGHT TACKLE.

NO ONE IS WRITING ABOUT HOW INCOGNITO ALWAYS HAD MARTINS BACK.

NO ONE IS WRITING ABOUT HOW INCOGNITO TEXTED MARTIN AFTER THE LUNCH ROOM PRANK THAT HAD BEED DONE A HUNDRED TIMES TO OTHER PLAYERS AND COACHES AND ASKED HIM IF HE WAS OK. MARTIN SAID YES AND IT WAS NOT ABOUT YOU I JUST NEED SOME TIME ALONE.

THE GUY DOES NOT HAVE THE FIRE TO PLAY FOOTBALL, THAT IS ALL THSI IS ABOUT AND NOW USING INCOGNITO AS A SCAPE GOAT. HE KNEW HE WOULD EVENTUALLY QUIT. WHY WOULD HE SAVE THAT TEXT MESSAGE?

HIS PARENTS ARE LAWYERS AND USING THIS TO MOUNT A CASE IN HIS DEFENSE. WHY DOESN'T HE JUST COME OUT AND SAY HE DOESN'T WANT TO PLAY?

so if I have an issue with a co-worker, maybe an ongoing issue.....I just go straight to the top, or to HR, and log a complaint?--wouldnt/shouldnt most adults go to that person first, and/or their boss, to try to address and deal with it?

BOYCOTT THE HERALD!!! BOYCOTT ARMANDO!!!

TGH, Incognito was kicked off the Rams and Bills for being over the top aggressive with oppoenents and taking too many personal fouls. He's never had issues with his own teammates.

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | November 07, 2013 at 10:03 AM

Thats aimply not true. He has a long history of fights with teammates.


Heres my question - WHERE IS JON MARTIN? WHEN IS HE GOING TO TELL HIS SIDE OF THE STORY? HE HAS ALL THE PROTECTION HE NEEDS NOW.

Posted by: Fatty Parcells | November 07, 2013 at 10:11 AM

He deleted his tweets to Cogs after it started to break that it was "crazy" all the rumors going on.

Maybe his parents and lawyers are behind all this. Who knows. He was still sending tweets after rumors broke to his teammates & then radio silence.

Very good entry, Armando.

Jonathan Martin is a snitch and should thus be handled accordingly...let him sleep with the fishes SEE!!! Raahh...

SICK OF ADAM SCHEFTER AND HIS PERSONAL VENDETTA AGAINST INCOGNITO AND THE FINS..

SICK OF MONDO NOW TOO...

This is boring armando, i need football articles please. We still in the middle of the season and we can make it to the playoffs.

I dont care about this 2 players anymore. I just care about players in the active roster.

Lets go phins!!

You all keep saying until the facts come out are you serious.The ONLY people that will actually know EVERYTHING are those involved even Wells the mouthpiece hired by the NFL wont KNOW everything but he will paint a picture of no cupable for the NFL(thats who hired him).
Do you actually think Ross got the NFL involved for a search for truth hes protecting himself from a big financial loss.
You all have figured it out by now this is headed for another bureacracy the courtroom.

I want to know if Patterson is healthy enough to play this week because Vjax will just eat up Grimes.

Patterson would be a better matchup!

Blah, blah, blah......

Bunch of people with nothing better to do than gossip. Who cares....

Really good piece by Murtha this morning. Read it on CNNSI when you can. Very revealing. Armando has taken a very small piece of it and taken some of it out of context to meet his purpose. I think you'll realize that most of this is on Martin. Sounds like a very unstable guy, which just talks further to the huge gaffe in drafting this guy.

By the way, nothing wrong with Ireland telling Martin's agent that his player to stand up for himself 'by fighting back against Cogs'. This isn't tiddly-winks folks. It's one of the violent sports on the planet. Takes a very special person to want to play in the NFL and leave it all out there every Sunday. It's also very clear that Martin's agent and lawyers have agendas here.

Not cool with the language Cogs uses but it sounds like it happens a lot in pro sports. I believe he's being made to look like the scapegoat here.

Let's face it, Florio and MMQB are looing to generate buzz on this matter which leads to page views which lead to ad impressions which lead to money. Comments taken out of context are designed do just that.

I think that the real problem here is that Martin was struggling as a football player and it was boiling over into who he was as a person.

Now, what truly bothers me is that, since this story broke, we have not heard from Jon Martin once. Not once. We've heard plenty from his agent and we've heard from "sources close to Martin" which are clearly his mommy and daddy, a couple of lawyers who strike me as extreme helicopter parents.

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