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Reports: Dolphins knew internally despite denials

Several new layers of the onion that is the Incognito-Martin-NFL review scandal are being peeled back by ProFootballTalk.com and Monday Morning Quarterback this morning. And believing the information in both items should make the Dolphins cry.

In PFT, Mike Florio reports "Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland received a call from Martin’s agent, Rick Smith, before Martin left the team on October 28. Smith complained to Ireland about the manner in which Incognito was treating Martin.

"Ireland, according to the sources, suggested to Smith that Martin physically confront Incognito. Ireland specifically mentioned that Martin should “punch” Incognito."

In MMQB, Peter King had former Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha write a first-person account of what he saw in the Dolphins locker room of the relationship between Incognito and Martin and the rest of the organization. And he writes, in part, this:

"Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous."

And taken on its face -- and if true -- this is truly problematic for Dolphins coaches and Ireland.

If the NFL Review, which began Wednesday, shows that one of Martin's agents alerted Ireland and thus the Dolphins that his client felt uncomfortable or harassed or bullied or upset in any fashion and the response from someone as high in the Dolphins command structure as Ireland was to simply suggest Martin "punch" Incognito, it shows a callous disregard for Martin's well-being.

If, as Murtha contends, coaches know everything, then we have a conspiracy on our hands.

And worse, we have a cover-up.

Consider that Dolphins coach Joe Philbin has said on numerous occasions the Dolphins didn't know anything about Martin's uncomfortable feelings regarding Incognito. Consider that on Sunday -- a full six days after Martin left the team and Philbin visited him at the hospital where he was seeking emotional help -- the Dolphins released a statement dismissing allegations of bullying as merely "speculation."

And yet ... these reports.

The Dolphins can only hope that context and full disclosure and facts over opinion all work on their behalf to overshadow this kind of information.

What do I mean by that?

Well, take the Florio report. Obviously there are only two people on that phone conversation between Ireland and Smith. And Ireland isn't talking to anyone per the Dolphins policy of not commenting during the ongoing NFL review and Smith is obviously the source.

And as Smith's agenda is to show cause on Martin's behalf, the information does exactly that.

But I cannot believe an agent calls an NFL GM and they talk about a topic so sensitive and the only theme coming out of the conversation is "punch" Incognito. Ireland would have to be an unserious goof for that to be true. (And he is not).

Perhaps he suggested Martin "punch" Incognito in passing. And perhaps after doing that, the phone call became more serious. We. Do. Not. Know.

One thing: Ireland has two autistic daughters. He knows what it is to have children who are singled out on a daily basis. I find it hard to believe he simply dismissed the idea that one of his players was being singled out in such a cavalier manner.

[Update: Florio, a friend who honors me by reading this blog, emailed me this morning when he saw this post. He writes in part: "The context was that Smith was complaining about Incognito and Ireland expressed confusion as to why this was an issue and said that Martin should go punch him."]

As to Murtha's contention that coaches knew. That is entirely possible. His saying it makes it sound probable. Yet, he does not know. The last time Murtha was in the Dolphins locker room was during the 2012 training camp. It's been fully 15 months since he's been around.

So he's speculating. As Peter King, who runs MMQB, is a good reporter, I assume he read Murtha's draft assertions and asked questions. And the question that begs asking is, "Which coaches know? Name names."

No one is named by Murtha. He paints the assertion with a wide brush stroke. And this investigation is going to require precision stenciling.

So we need specifics. We need more context. We need more information.

But if the allegations in these two reports are accurate, Ireland and the coaching staff are in a world of trouble.

 

 

Comments

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FYI,

I know you TRY to be the Richie Incognito of the blog. You've got ONE tone bud......

Here's the part you're not getting. I don't NEED to talk to morons like you. you're nothing. You're that kid that got picked on in the third grade and you're till scarred by that today. You're the ultimate tough guy bully, behind the keyboard.

Here's the thing.....nobody cares. It's not getting you anywhere in life. NOBODY is listening.

Ciao

It's absolute true that if one is the head of an organization, then every decision one makes has to be for the good of the organization, its stakeholders, the public, and employees. It's a very responsible position.

One does NOT do the following:

1 - Ask a potential employee about his Mom's past employment (Dez Bryant Inverview).

2 - Use profanity in public when a paying customer makes a joke at your expense.

3 - Tell the agent of an employee that the employee should solve a workplace dispute with violence.

Of course, context matters. But if one is entrusted with a high professional position, then one should conduct oneself accordingly.

The above things relate to professionalism. All fall short in many ways. Some more than others.

Ireland has not done very well in terms of building a winning program as evidenced by woefully subpar drafts, coaching selection and free agency moves.

Hopefully, the real truth will come out. Regardless, the Dolphins have hurt their image deeply. That's probably going to lead to a loss of fans, credibility and games.

Craig M....I see a team that comes together and rallies behind their former leader. I see a team that will not back down and will not be intimidated by the press. I see a team who has a great resolve and will come out Monday NIght and kick some arse. I wouldn't want to be the team that has to deal with the fallout from this soap opera..going to be a fun game and the Bucs are going to get killed.

on offense, I would run Miller 20 times or more.....and I would find any way, on passing downs, to force the ball to Wallace--which almost has to happen more now with Gibson out--force Wallace the ball, and even if passes arent completed every time, it will open things up more for Hartline/Clay and others (and hopefully Wallace makes some plays)

WashPhinFan @ 11:09 I agree with you. The team is pissed and is going to take it out on the Bucs.

Mass....and I dont know the answer to this....but how many plays has Richardson and Jordan both gotten?--doesnt that come into play?--coaches have to play Jordan for him to have a bigger impact, and the fact that he's been used sparingly is not necessarily a knock on him at all--alot of things can go into that.....my guess is that Richardson has gotten alot more snaps---and should we look at other players taken in Rd 1, and compare their production?--I'm sure some have more, and plenty have less

WashPhinFan/DD,

I Have to agree with Wash here. I was really impressed with Tannehill in the lat game and I've been hard on him.

I expect this team to come out firing and focussed on Monday. I don't buy the distraction BS.

Another episode in as the world turns.

Martin is a clown. With No Spine.

Those who hate Ireland will always hate Ireland. More than half this blog wanted Martin to fight back. And guess what so did the GM. But we still hate Ireland so he is wrong for that.

And I read that clown Florio also. He said just yesterday that the players are wrong for coming out in the defense for Incognito. Then he comes out today and throws a log on the Fire.

SO THE ONLY THING THAT JEFF AND THE AGENT TALKED ABOUT WAS IRELAND TELLING THE AGENT THAT MARTIN NEEDS TO STAND UP FOR HIMSELF AND PUNCH INCOGNITO.

Let me guess the agent also has that recorded!! But only the part about Ireland telling him to punch Incognito.

SEE A PATTERN?

MARTIN AND HIS REPRESENTATIVE ARE ONLY BUILDING A BIGGER HOLE.

Who would've thought the cool headed one was Incognito. He was right when he said the truth will come out.

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST!!

All this shows is that PHILBIN HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF HOW SEVERE MARTIN WAS BEING BULLIED. Ireland did, Philbin did not.

And INSTEAD, Of agent talking to GM, It should've been player talking to coach. Now this is going to make J.Martin's agent look bad. He was also implicit in the scheme to extort the Fins.

rdubs, Tannehill and hartline's comments were so well thought out and put forward that they were played live up here on local sports talk radio. I couldn't tell you the last time a Dolphin got the mike up here ... maybe Ricky's retirement??

Anyway, I know Tannehill has the goods, proud he and Hartline presented a united front. FTW!!!!

marc, ur pretty smart for a French dude.

I'm with marc here. Advocating violence in a manly way is bad?

This is a sport where teammates throw the shots at each other on an almost daily basis.

Violence is what this game is built on,... bunch of light weights here I tell u...

Dashi....you're a little wacky at times....but thats a solid post

Mark,

Totally agree @11:15 am


Here's the part you're not getting. I don't NEED to talk to morons like you. you're nothing. You're that kid that got picked on in the third grade and you're till scarred by that today. You're the ultimate tough guy bully, behind the keyboard.

Here's the thing.....nobody cares. It's not getting you anywhere in life. NOBODY is listening.

Ciao

Posted by: Craig M | November 07, 2013 at 11:08 AM

Coming from the guy who says it's Ok for the GM of a franchise to tell people to go around punching people?

LOL I'm the bully? You have anger issues. Just stfu already.

It's obvious why you're a single middle aged tart who lives on the blog.

So here's my prediction: of course Martin will not play for Miami again but he will end up with Harbaugh in SF or reunite with his old QB and OC in Indy, have a decent career, win a championship and them go to Harvard and get his JD. In 20 years, Cogs, Murtha and all these men will come looking for him for help after their third assault charge on their spouses, DUI or bankrupt proceedings.
Meanwhile Miami fans will still wonder why we haven't won any rings if our locker rooms are full of outstanding men who are real football players and not sissies.
like David Shaw just said: 'Lockers rooms win games'

i agree Craig, i think Wallace and Tannehill might build of that one play. set up the defenses with a good run game and then strike down field.

let's get back to football...

This dolphins team has been a disgrace to its fans for years...its one thing after another with this team. Its is apparent and has been for years that the management on this team is full of morons. That is not bullying , that is a fact. If anyone is being bullied, its the poor dolphins fans, and it has gone on for years. This team is a total laughing stock for everyone anymore.
On a more serious note, from what has been said by Martins teammates and other reports about this incident, i believe that Martins issues are very deep and he may have some seroius mental issues that go way beyond this. Dont get me wrong, Incognito is not exactly all there either, but i think Martin has issues that go way beyond this bullying and he may need serious help.

to bad the Fins don't have a long raod trip to get away from FL. they are stuck there until December.

Rdubs, actually the whole story changed (in the Dolphins favor) once the players you mentioned spoke up. Before that is was all Philbin stonewalling and spinning. And I blame that on Philbin (and Aponte) for the STUPID, DUMB PR strategy of saying nothing. It's not helpful. They should have learned from the Mike Pouncey incident (see how the Steelers handled it). In the void left from their tight-lipped strategy lies speculation and innuendo. It's counter-productive. If they let the players come out and dispel much of the hoopla from the beginning (or did it themselves) then maybe this thing would be done by now. But it's not, once the media trains its sight on a target, they hone in until there's nothing left.

If Philbin remains as HC, I hope he learns from this episode and becomes a much better coach, understanding all his responsibilities and how to manage people and the be the face of a franchise.

Silverback @ 10:48, the circles hernandez was walking in before and after he was drafted were secrets to nobody. So the Pats harbour a no thug and it's oh well Hernandez is a bad man. We have a GM who tells a player's agent that he should consider sticking up for himself and now we need to fire everybody ...

All of South florida must be light in the loafers, i swear...

hhmmmm.....think there is any violence, or bad behavior, or.....atrocities! (yep, I said it....oohh, goodness gracious!) at the bottom of those fumble piles?

P.S. - You'll understand exactly why Ireland cant, if he did say it, tell people to go punching teammates around.

Ross will explain it soon enough. Soo many simpletons here it's ridiculous. None of you obviously have anything in your lives wrth protecting.

Just your macho punching people for self respect is cool. Martin is a twinkie but, get a grip.

Bunch of e-tough guys in here. I bet there wasn't a fight any of you didn't run away from. LOL

Hey Mando, can you PLEASE set up a separate post for those of us who want to talk about the game Monday Night and not about this dribble ,drama fest that I have been forced to deal with for the past week now? TIred of the speculation, tired of the innuendo, tire of the "secret sources" and I am just plain tired of the subject all together.

Is anybody ready for some football, a Monday Night party.....?????

FYI, again....grown men dont/cant/shouldnt use "LOL", ok?--my 12 yr old daughter and her friends do....but not appealing when a grown dude does....just sayin.....OMG!!

Craig, this Monday is a great opportunity for Tannehill to have a good game... I think the Tampa defense is a good match up for him. They just need to get up early and often on Tampa and come out wth the same focus they showed against the Bengals.

38 - 13 Miami...haters keep on hatin'!!!
WOO!!!

On the REAL NEWS!! The Game.

Dolphins will play well. The Dolphins will play really well.

I believe everyone on that team is extra focus. Only the Media and the Fans are giving it extra thought. Out of anything Martin has made this team closer.

Thanks, you Big Honey Bear of a Boy!!

Winnie the Pooh looking N---a!!

As the great General Patton use to say, I didn't know they can stack Chit that high.


hhmmmm.....think there is any violence, or bad behavior, or.....atrocities! (yep, I said it....oohh, goodness gracious!) at the bottom of those fumble piles?

Posted by: benz | November 07, 2013 at 11:23 AM

Aren't players fined or suspended for crossing the line on the field?

Well guess what? The same would apply to Ireland if what he supposedly said is true.

Ross will explain it o all you dum dums in due time.

..Craig M...How was your B-Day??

I don't care that we look great this week as long as we win. We haven't looked great for a whole game(except Indy) yet this year. I totally disagree that this week hasn't been a distraction. Has what has gone on this week been total BS? Absolutely. Anyway you want to look at it..It is total BS. But I do not think that it is to far fetched to think that everyone on the team has been totally focused on Monday. I don't see how they could. Human nature for your mind to stray under these condiditons. Instead of preparing for the game..The players are answering questions they should have never had to answer.

Add to this..No team in the NFL is just good enough to show up..I will be very impressed if we play a mentaly tough game Monday. Personally I don't see it..I think it going to be tough.

Can we please get back to football. This blog sounds like a bunch of boared housewives looking for some excitment.

N - National
F - Feminine
L - League

This is will create an us vs them mentality. Exactly what the Dolphins need to get them moving.
The Bengals game was the best demonstration of grit that I have seen from a Dolphins team in 10 years.

FYI, what part don't you get that the NFL player environment is not the same as working at wherever you work or any of us work. it's different and you can't remove the violent (hand to hand) element out of it. It's at the epicentre of this sport...


FYI, again....grown men dont/cant/shouldnt use "LOL", ok?--my 12 yr old daughter and her friends do....but not appealing when a grown dude does....just sayin.....OMG!!

Posted by: benz | November 07, 2013 at 11:25 AM

When I'm talking to a bunch of kids who act 12, LOL is highly appropriate & acceptable.

Putz!

yeah, and how do the players feel about the recent fine-happy rules/league?--you've heard them....do they like it, for the most part--so there is clearly the "real world"....and "FYI's world"

and you used LOL again.....weak, seriously

McCarthy said of Philbins character, i trust him with my childeren, that says alot.

Whatever it takes to get rid of Ireland then I am all for it.

..One advantage for the Phins is that the Tampa D-Line is putrid. With the exception of Gerald McCoy They are brutal. So it may be the perfect week for a patchwork line to do some work.

Mando, dig a LITTLE bit more deeper for us.

People complain about NFL violence BUT Ireland is telling players to punch each other.

KEEP GOING MANDO!

Finally!!! lol @ Weasel

Just hang an effigy of Martin from the opponent's goal post..that should motivate this team if nothing else does...

FYI,
It's hard to make people understand that the nFL is a corporation and should be subject to labor laws and frankly common sense.

When people make the analogy about heir kids in school i laugh thinking about these parents then finding out that the school principal anti- bullying approach boils down to this advice to the boy: hey, just punch the other kid. That solves everything...

MassD, first off nobody was a bigger fan than me of Sheldon Richardson coming into this year's draft.

However, Richardson is a starter and plays all downs, Jordan gets about 15 snaps a game. You want to compare production??

Furthermore claiming someone is a bust 8 games into their career when they've already shown a penchant for game changing plays in limited opporutnities, is at best premature.


FYI, what part don't you get that the NFL player environment is not the same as working at wherever you work or any of us work. it's different and you can't remove the violent (hand to hand) element out of it. It's at the epicentre of this sport...

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | November 07, 2013 at 11:27 AM

How do you people not understand that a workplace is a workplace? It's mind numbing to see a few ppl not grasp this!

Violence is in the GAME on the field. Not in the locker room with your team mates.

If a fight breaks out between players on their own, that's 1 thing. It happens.

However, can NONE of you see how it's different if the GM is advocating it?

A business is a business. Doesn't matter if it's a fast food place or an NFL team.

Some of you ppl have obviously not received higher education if you cannot decipher the difference. It also explains why you spend most of your day talking about a football team.

Ask Ross, after he fired Ireland about his attitude & how he handled HIS business, when he gets fired & then you meatheads still won't get it!

A Day At the Office With Jeff Ireland

Agenda Notes

1 - Call Cowboys and see if they have any rejects to sign.

2 - Throw away those boring medical reports on draft and free agent prospects. Cheaper to sign injured vets and young people get better quickly.

3 - Rookies not playing much. Something about them having to work second jobs to pay for vacations and dinners for veterans. Maybe I can force the kicker to pay for my massage tomorrow.

4 - Call Florida State QB and find out what his mother did for a living.

5 - Set up cage match between Aponte and Starks over contract dispute. Be sure to put in on voice mail in case someone wants to sue us.

6 - Stick up middle finger at fans buying jerseys at fan shop.

7 - Contact Ross about contract extension. Outline the first 15 year rebuilding plan ever put on paper in NFL.

8 - Blame Parcells.

I'm with DD...just run the damn ball down their throats, on first, second, and third down...ah hell run it for good measure on forth as well. Miller is going to have a monster night, believe that.

Amando,
Why doesnt someone ask Ronnie Brown if Zach was a bully? Racist? I think not. Seem to recall Zach made Ronnie buy alot of locker room toys back in the day.
Its all BS, NAACP lawyer parents want to get paid....and the NFL are the ones that will be doing it. PC police in full swing, Redskins are glad the focus is off them. Richie got caught as the bag man. Keep the riseing Dolphins down (Patsies are their pride and joy)
ITS FOOTBALL for chrit sake.
Got a feeling though, this may just kickstart the season..See how much anger and heart this team has!!!! FREE COGS !!


FYI,
It's hard to make people understand that the nFL is a corporation and should be subject to labor laws and frankly common sense.

When people make the analogy about heir kids in school i laugh thinking about these parents then finding out that the school principal anti- bullying approach boils down to this advice to the boy: hey, just punch the other kid. That solves everything...

Posted by: Arturo | November 07, 2013 at 11:30 AM

It's quite sad tat people cannot see how this would have been wrong of Ireland to say.

Do most of us agree with the mentiality, Sure! But, this isn't what hgh up management people do!

Bunch of meatballs in here to NOT grasp this COMMON, BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL thing.

While major sports industries in the US do get concessions established by congress, if the NFL workplace comes under the purview of the US Department of Labor, one can visit their website and learn their views on harassment, violence, threats, etc. in the workplace. Ireland may be on the thinnest of ice for his reported comments...

Yea, Kids fightin comparing it to a franchise GM advocating violence.

If my kid gets in a fight I'm not worried about natl media attention, investigations, law suits, laywers.

SHOCKING that people can pretend to be this dumb. I simply cannot believe people actually think this way.

DD, I think Claiborne has his moments but overall, Miami's pass game should have an edge against TB. Especially if they stickw ith their zone and don't line Revis against Wallace 1 v1 .

That's right, Wallace, not #11. He showed up large against the Bengals and the handle #11 is retired for now.

Got to move Wallace around some ... slot, etc.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

FYI and Taco, I'll dim the lights so you guys can slow dance

The latest I heard in this saga is that the Martin camp wants to take this to real court. THAT WOULD BE THE DUMBEST MISTAKE THOSE GENIUSES MADE.

You don't sue the NFL in real Court. They have to much power. Remember the NFL is a Mafia with 32 of the most powerful people in America.

Keep digging Martin.

Mark,
Very deep and well-thought response. Seems that defending the NFL culture by some has really brought down the IQ in this blog

The Ross ownership is just one debacle after another.

The media keeps saying that porr little Jon Martin filed the proper grievance and was ingnored. NO ! He didn't file a greivance. He sent a voicemail from 7 months ago to a reporter at ESPN. Classy. www.DolphinsTruth.com

What has been avoided is telling WHEN the conversation with Ireland and Martin's agent occurred. It only says, "before" Martin left the team. When. A year? A week? And is Ireland's comments being distorted? He sat there and the only definitive answer he gave was "punch him" ? There is so much desperation to produce any information that simple conversation and casual words are now being taken literally? This is going to lead to some major complications in the future for all of sports if this is the case. Suddenly, everyone will be held accountable for everything they say, joke or not. Whether they meant it figuratively or literally. This is why the media is so out of control. This is the biggest non story that the media jumped all over and made national headlines before doing any research. This has all been fueled by speculation.

The bad thing also Bobby is that everyone is seeing this, non football fans who don't know the difference between bullying and football hijinks.

MarK. If you call me French one more time I'll have Richie shat in your mouth!

Haha. Martin voted Richie on the leadership council! More and more this seems like the story of a lover scorned...

The serious consequence of this situation, Peru, is that a Person became seriously ill apparently as a consequence of some inappropriate behavior from the members of his surroundings. If that is the case, some of us believe that if the Game of Football has to change in order to prevent this from happening again, then so be it.

But if the allegations in these two reports are accurate, Ireland and the coaching staff are in a world of trouble.
-Almando Salguero

A WORLD OF TROUBLE?
Ireland: Just signed extension - getting fired would be his best outcome because he would still get paid by Phins and can go back to scouting.

Sherman: Sherman was retired after his dismissal from TA&M, he doesn't care one way or another.

Philbin: Philbin gets the short straw. His record is 11-13. He can't get the ball to the leagues highest paid wr. His crappy OL has imploded and his QB is about to be maimed.

If you think Martin is just taking down the fins, you are wrong, he is changing the whole NFL, most likely for the worst. All of this is blown out of proportion. Everyone wants a hand in it, and the media always needs a good story. Andrew Scicliano yesterday was trying so hard to make an issue and he couldn't get any players except for one to bite. See Brandon Marshall's interview and that will sum it up. Whether you like or hate the GM and the coaches, bottom line is they are smart people and if it was presented in a serious matter it would have been taken that way. Lawyers and agents are involved so the truth will never come out.

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