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Incognito considered black in Dolphins locker room

One of the most curious aspects of the Richie Incognito-Jonathan Martin story is how race has become very much a part of it outside the Dolphins locker room -- in the media and among fans and observers -- but not at all so far within the Dolphins locker room.

Think of this:

Richie Incognito left Jonathan Martin a voice mail that, among other things, called Martin a "half-n----r." And Dolphins players of color, knowing of the voicemail, have expressed no problems with Incognito.

"I don't have a problem with Richie," Mike Wallace said. "I love Richie."

"I don't think Richie is a racist," cornerback Brent Grimes said.

"Richie Incognito isn't a racist," tight end Michael Egnew said.

ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

 “They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

How is this possible?

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

Another former Dolphins employee told me Martin is considered "soft" by his teammates and that's a reason he's not readily accepted by some of the players, particularly the black players. His background -- Stanford educated and the son of highly educated people -- was not necessarily seen as a strength or a positive by some players and it perpetuated in the way Martin carried himself.

And so -- agree with it or not, comprehend it or not -- this is a reason the Dolphins haven't turned on Incognito as a racist.

Comments

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Martin & Dion Jordan got into a scuffle a few weeks ago & Incognito backed up Martin. Latest claim on twitter.

Go figure! You'd think it'd be the other way around if he really didn't like the guy. Or am I crazy?

Cogs may be a douche but, he's gonna get a raw deal here.

Oscar, I always thought you were a smart guy. Who on earth do you think would take a chance on Martin? You know, the guy that just up and left his team 3 days before a game. The same guy that filed a formal grievance. You do remember that, right?
Yeah Martin is soft but he ain't dumb. His statement is just ammo for the grievance.

But don't take my word for it. This is from Forbes....

According to Spotrac.com, Mr. Martin’s 2013 base salary is $607,466…or roughly $38,000 per game. Is he still receiving game checks for games missed while on leave? If not, and if the actions of Mr. Incognito and others caused this absence, then Mr. Martin will be entitled to some form of reimbursement.

But if the alleged taunts and comments have caused enough mental duress and bad blood that Mr. Martin does not feel comfortable returning to the team, the Dolphins organization could be on the hook for much more. According to Spotrac again, he signed a 4-year contract upon entering the league in 2012 worth $4.8 million ($2.9 million guaranteed). He was starting for the team this season in his first 6 games and in fine physical shape. Something tells me that if never returns to Miami, he’ll see every penny of the full value of the contract. And perhaps more if his lawyers were to argue that this incident could either impact his future attractiveness to other teams, his future as a product endorser (which admittedly is likely very low to begin with as a lineman), or future opportunities merely working in the NFL as a coach or administrator.

Get it?

Awesome!!! Pierre Mondou ... 1980s hockey reference! Love it!!!

Up here SOuth Asians think they're black too...

It is obvious that what broke the camels back in JMartins case was that prank of the whole OL to get up from the table when he sat down at it. But nobody breaks down in a deep depressive state because of one prank or incident and only from a sustained and prolonged series of them. That was what drove him to be admitted in the Hospital, probably with suicidal ideation. YOU GODDAM IDIOTS I TOLD YOU THIS WAS SERIOUS!!!

Anyone wanna talk some football???/

Good article here....

http://cover32.com/dolphins/2013/11/05/reevaluating-the-miami-dolphins-2012-draft-class/

How does Incognito fit in a ferrari???

On this story about Black-n-White, I am Latin and do alot of traveling for a living through Latin Countries were Race doesn't even play a part in anything, that's an American phenomenon! The Black People I deal with in business I refer to as "MY NEGRO" which is seen as a term of endearment. The other Latin's on this site know what I mean.

I agreed with the person he spoke reality about what the White man did to the Indians BTW. We stole their land and killed them and acted like we were doing them a favor. Some of their successors believe the White man's lie 'til this day.

It is not all cut and dry though. Some Indians were savages and would kill and eat the white man whether he was a threat or not.

But as a whole the whites were very uncool about the entire situation. Even now the government makes things difficult on the self-sufficient, farmers, Amish, Moormans, Indians. Anyone who tries to make a living without depending on the Government. They want us all under their thumb. They search us before we enter a stadium now.

why no mention of the generational divide at play here, regarding race/N word, etc--notice that most of the pundits that are so critical and offended are middle/older aged guys (Polian, Herm Edwards, Shefter, Greenberg, among others), while many 20-ish NFL players (Dolphins and others) arent nearly as offended....and in fact seem to strongly support Incognito for the most part--all due respect to the above mentioned older guys, young people view/use race and language much differently.....hip hop and some of the thug mentality is mainstream today, and very popular/considered cool--some younger NFL players have probably never heard of Bill Polian....times/attitudes change--the old guys are out of touch.

I laugh every time people try to talk up Martin by saying he was Andrew Luck's left tackle. You all sounds like Al Bundy talk about his 5 touchdowns in one game at Polk High.

He is a POS football player, get it??

Does anyone think Cogs is the reincarnation of Chris Farley??

So glad all of this happened during a week where the Dolphins actually got a win. The story is already getting old...and next week it'll be more fire Ireland + Tannebust complaints after the Phins lose to one win Tampa.

It's a great time to hate The Dolphins.

Phins popularity and bottom line took a hit with this debacle.

Ross has to be pi$$ed.

LOL, if Jordan didn't whip martin, he should get cut too

Wow, these comments go in 360 directions! I agree with the posts that say this is not about race. But it IS about bullying. Yes, it's the NFL, yes, it's a warrior mentality, but keep that sh*t on the field, like Warren Sapp said. IT doesn't belong in the locker room, and especially not beyond. These are grown men but they are not acting like it. RI had a problem with JM, and he rode him too hard. JM was not a rookie anymore, he was 2nd year, and a starter. Maybe emotionally unstable, but why did RI have to keep pushing him? It's not just the voice mails, it sounds from players like it was ongoing. RI has a long history, and it's about time he gets cut loose.

The NFL is a culture all it's own and I respect that. Their norms are different than what each individual has within it's own home and culture.
___________________________________________________
I understand where you are coming from. But it is a subjective position. Objectively it is wrong to haze others. And objectively no one is obliged to go along with it. If someone does not want to play along with it tough nuts, pick on someone else.

Brian Moorman is a punter for the Buffalo Bills.... oh you meant mormon... just breakin em. Thought it was a funny typo.

is patterson as soft as martin, sure seems that way

If Martin could play like a 2nd round pick and perform on the field, we wouldn't be havering this discussion to begin with!!!

The problem here is more Martin's lack of performance than anything. Then, the coaches wouldn't have asked Ritchie to toughen him up. And, he would have commanded more respect in the locker room and at the training table in the lunchroom.

Instead, he wimped out on his teammates, threw his coaches under the bus, and got a player fired from his job! Heaven help the next team (if any) that will take the kid.

If there had really been a problem, Martin should have addressed it like a man; tell Ritchie that you don't like what he's saying and it offends you and then go talk to the coach about it. He did nothing! As far as everyone in the locker room knew, Martin was fine with what was going on. Martin leaves the team, says he's got some personal problems to work on. Talks to the coach and tells him that he's seeking therapy for all the stress, but never mentions harassment, racist remarks, bullying, or anything else. Then, the coach hears about all of this from a bunch of lawyers? C'mon, man! That's a wussy's way out of things! That's like sending your mother to your coach to explain why you can't come to practice!

And, now...they're calling for Philbin's head? Haters gonna hate. And, wussies are gonna be wussies...

How does Incognito fit in a ferrari???

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | November 06, 2013 at 03:25 PM

That's actually a really good ?, LMAO!

the ages of the "older guys" that seem surprised/outraged/critical of this situation, and the race issue in particular--Salguero (age?-old), Polian (70), Herm Edwards (59), Dungy (58), Shefter (46, but acts 72), Carter (47, but acts 64), etc--those players that arent so surprised, and have commented? Ricky Williams (36), Pouncey, Wallace, Ellerbe (24, 26, 27).....sensing a pattern here? Whats unacceptable to old guys, especially regarding race....is apparently much more acceptable, or viewed differently, to younger guys.....

Mark,
Whatever dude. Point is that real coaches that do know football in teams that are elite in college football actually thought that Martin was good enough to start for them. An trust me, Stanford has a very good and deep O Line and POS players like you say would never see playing time, let alone start for them. An I do bring Andrew Luck because if you have the top player in the nation playing for you you make sure that the guys is healthy and that means having a good LT. Or are you telling me that Harbaugh and Shaw are imbeciles for playing Martin? Are you that full of yourself to actually think that you know better than them?

Wow, these comments go in 360 directions! I agree with the posts that say this is not about race. But it IS about bullying. Yes, it's the NFL, yes, it's a warrior mentality, but keep that sh*t on the field, like Warren Sapp said. IT doesn't belong in the locker room, and especially not beyond. These are grown men but they are not acting like it. RI had a problem with JM, and he rode him too hard. JM was not a rookie anymore, he was 2nd year, and a starter. Maybe emotionally unstable, but why did RI have to keep pushing him? It's not just the voice mails, it sounds from players like it was ongoing. RI has a long history, and it's about time he gets cut loose.
______________________________________________
Nice post.

You should be comfortable with your own teammates. But it is interesting that it happened right after he had to switch positions again. And it is interesting that the players back COG. I'm sure Philbin does not want them saying anything so there's that.

All avoidable nonsense. If people could act like adults off the field we would not be missing two starting line-men.

The reason John Martin didnt get picked on a Stanford is because there was a bigger nerd on the team Andrew Luck.. That goofy looking fuq sounds like a fuqkin fraggle when he talks

"Regardless of whether Incognito took his orders too far, those who gave the orders will be facing serious consequences, if the report is accurate. Management-level employees can’t pull the rip cord on a reputed nut job and then throw their hands in the air and say “that was an overreaction” when the local enforcer is overly zealous with his methods of enforcement."

What report? This story said "if the report that the coaches asked Incognito to toughen him up or get him in the fold are true heads will roll".

WTF ARE YOUUUUUU TALKING ABOUTTTTTTTTTTTT????!!!!!!!!!!

They are now trying to say the coaches asked Incognito to berate and belittle Martin with racial slurs?

Or are they saying the coaches asked Incognito to toughen him up and should have known he would take it this far?

You're all vultures, quick, there's a dying player on the side of the road, dig in! F%$#ing a$#holes.

Tracy,

Martin gave the entire Dolphins organization and even the NFL a black eye.

Unless he really has some type of mental problem, he's a lowlife.

The guy just wants a nice severance pay package.


That was what drove him to be admitted in the Hospital, probably with suicidal ideation. YOU GODDAM IDIOTS I TOLD YOU THIS WAS SERIOUS!!!

Posted by: oscar canosa | November 06, 2013 at 03:23 PM

Oscar, as far as concern, this is further evidence this is a very long and calculated plan by Martin to do what he has done. He isn't just sticking o Cogs, this has been a long and calculated plan to stick it to the coaches and locker room mates who have obviously chosen Cogs over him.

Saving the voice mail for that long a period itself shows PREMEDTATION on Martin's part. Distruaght over being moved back to right tackle, spurred Martin to place in long thought out plan to stick it to coaches, players and Cogs into action.

Martin calculated Cogs would be suspended, kicked off of the team, and possibly end Cog's football career.

Remember, Cog's said Martin was easiest player to scare? Well. Martin got Cogs back because given Cogs history, he was easiest player to turn the "black penny" over on.

All of the evidence now points, this was a well thought out, very well organized, attempt by Martin to stick it coaches, fellow players, and Cogs himself by misconscrewing all of facts that suggests he apparently really is a SOFT player.

Martin was trusted enough to start and protect Luck for 3 years.....whats that say about the great Jim Harbaugh?

Posted by: Rdubs | November 06, 2013 at 03:36 PM

So in the Dolphins' locker room, Luck would be hazed frequently and shunnned because he's too goofy and not 'black' enough? Idiotic comment

I understand where you are coming from. But it is a subjective position. Objectively it is wrong to haze others. And objectively no one is obliged to go along with it. If someone does not want to play along with it tough nuts, pick on someone else.

Posted by: John | November 06, 2013 at 03:30 PM

At the end of the day it goes to how good/tough aplayer you are! Martin apparently proved himself soft in the eyes of his teammates! Alot of talk about gay players and they're acceptance but maybe (for some reason) it escapes everybody that All-Pro DE Alonzo Spellmen while a Chicago Bear was seen around Chicago's gay night life wearing a dog collar with another man holding the leash. It was also widely rumored that he had an affair with a DB on that team. The whole thing came to a head with Spellmen threatening suicide which Mike Singletary talked him out of but at the end of the day he could play! So when the Bears released him the Cowboys picked him up (fully aware) and he played an additional 3 Yrs. with them. The point is if you can play and prove your toughness on a field you'd be surprised what you could get away with in an NFL Locker Room.

Right down to leaving the Dolphins facilities, and going immediately to the hospital, proves to me this was a WELL THOUGHT OUT plan by Martin.

Who would have off the top of their head to head directly to the hospital? You would if it was already part of a PREMEDITATED PLAN.

Posted by: benz | November 06, 2013 at 03:38 PM

Like I said, Mark and others would probably say that Harbaugh has no clue about football. Or David Shaw.

This is definitely going to set a new precedent in the nfl. No more rights of passage, no more hazing, no more n ame calling. So basically the NFL is turning into kindergarten.

Someone last night had the best post. He said something about the NFL and WWE joining forces now that the NFL is a soap opera of it's own. He said the NFL is now a soap opera for middle aged fat a#@es who sit around screaming at their tv 3 days a week. I couldn't agree more, brilliant.


I don't believe that Cogs is a "good guy" by any stretch of the imagination. However I am now questioning Martins motives. Martin was not happy with the move back to RT. Martin was not a fan of Cogs.....saving text and voice mails tells me something else was at work here. Martin is a West Coast guy....is this his way back home?? Is he trying to get to the 49ers or Chargers??? He knows he is most likely done with the Dolphins as soon as he walked out?? There is more to this story!

Posted by: Bill Arnsparger | November 05, 2013 at 07:33 PM


I am not prepared to call Cogs a racist however...the "N" word has been mainstreamed by the hip hop world. I hear white youth, Hispanic youth and black youth using the word freely around each other. So I would think that in the context that Cogs was using it...was not racist. If it were I'm sure Wake, Grimes, Wallace and Sims would not be coming out saying Cogs is a good guy.
Calling anybody racist has become old school because "wolf" has been cried too many times when it wasn't really warranted. Before you attack I happen to be BLACK!

Posted by: Bill Arnsparger | November 05, 2013 at 06:15 PM


Wow I was way out front of this developing story!

HOW DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT PHILBIN SAID AND HOW HE SAID IT.

INCOGNITO MAY HAVE SAID TO PHILBIN SOMETHING ALONG THE LINE OF MARTINS TOUGHNESS AND PHILBIN MAY HAVE SAID THEN TOUGHEN HIM UP...

ALL COACHES LEAN ON VETS TO GET YOUNGER PLAYERS UP TO SNUFF.

Arturo, a lot of players got good draft grades and played well in college and couldn't hack it in the NFL.

If you want to tell me Martin was a good OT because he played well in college and stupid ESPN gave him a good draft grade despite being weaker than a lot of CBs, then fine.

I just point to the 1.5 years where he was the worst graded pro OT in the NFL in his time here.

You tell me what's more compelling.

GO POLK HIGH!

And tell me Arturo, who was right about Martin in the NFL?? Huh, who??? ME, right from DAY FUKKING ONE, EVEN BEFORE HIS FIRST PRO SNAP!!!

ME!!!!!

Guys, Martin planned all of this. He was only patiently waiting for the proper time to spring his carefully PREMEDITATED plan into action.

STRANGE HOW THIS ALL HAPPENED 1 WEEK AFTER BEING MOVED BACK TO RIGHT TACKLE.


Right down to leaving the Dolphins facilities, and going immediately to the hospital, proves to me this was a WELL THOUGHT OUT plan by Martin.

Who would have off the top of their head to head directly to the hospital? You would if it was already part of a PREMEDITATED PLAN.

Posted by: Sam I Am | November 06, 2013 at 03:41 PM

Agreed. if Martin was depressed & suicidal he would have tried to kill himself. How many people do you know who were suicidal & opted to finally get help instead of actually committing the act?

Instead, he headed to a hospital to give the impression he was suicidal because that's what the plan called for.

An easy way off the team, still get paid & look like the victim.

Is being 'considered black' in the locker room supposed to be a free pass or an insult?

Sad...This is very sad..The definition of being black has nothing to do with who your parents are or your ancestors or your DNA or the color of your skin. If you can demonstrate a lack of respect for authority, behave like an ignorant thug, you can get your black card. If you demonstrate intelligence and respect for authority then you are soft and white.

Everyone should be insulted by this! Mike Wallace you are a disappointment for multiple reasons. This organization is an embarassment to society. Discugsting! I didn't expect much more from Incognito who already had a bad rep, but the coaches and especially the players are a huge disappointment...

All of this is getting so overblown. Same thing happened to Egnew that happened to Martin. Sherman called him a bad name boohoo. TE coach tells Fasano "stay on him"

Egnew for as much crap as he got worked his tail off and is at least a decent part of this team now. Meanwhile we have Martin who runs to mommy after getting benched. This is such a joke at this point.

f4l, Spellman was a big dude... affair with a DB... hope that DB wasn't the catcher ... yikes!!!

The fact that Martin hasn't come out to tell his story absolutely sickens me to no end.

What kind of crap is going on here that Martin gets to screw an entire franchise because he was picked on by one player but doesn't have to actually face the consequences of HIS actions?

Where are the consequences for him being an unprofessional man baby? My head is going to explode over this soon. The code red thing dragged me right back in. Utterly ridiculous.

If the coaches said, "Hey Richie, we want you to berate this guy until he shapes up by using threats and racial slurs" than fine. FIRE THEM!

But that seems pretty unlikely and we have NO proof that is what happened. So why is the media running with this story as if it's fact?

Arturo, you're acting like a jackarse. Neveer said anything about Harbaugh knowing football. just said the college game was different thatn the pros and it doesn't always translate. Time Tebow was the best Qb ever in college. Weurffel won the Heisman, Ron Dayne the rushing record...

You understand now, u fukking Taco!!

Is it racist to assume that Martin's mom is the white parent? LOL

I am allowed to ask that question, for I am white and my wife is black and we have our own little "half ninja"!

Posted by: Sam I Am | November 06, 2013 at 03:41 PM

EXACTLY!!!!

Why has the media been so quick to judge Incognito whilr turning a blind eye to the things that don't add up in Martins story?

You guys are reporters right?!!! Why aren't you seeing all of these inconsistencies in Martins story and calling him out for it?!

Armando please answer this? What gives man? Yes Richie is a jerk, everyone knows it. But Martin has a part in this and you guys are ignoring it? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

Mark,
But don't give me tha BS explanatioon that a guy that has only been in the league for 1.5 years, while only starting 14 games (or something like that) at one of the toughest positions is ready to be called a POS player. If I remember correctly, you were supportive of Egnew for over a year even though the guy was not good enough to suit up for games in what was a very bad unit. Now turns out he has a decent game and you say: see I told you so.
What I saw in MArtin was a rookie learning the speed at this level who had good games and bad ones, just like any other rookies do. And on top of that, playing on a unit that was nothing short of desastrous. In all fariness, Clabo has been worse, Incognito was just as bad and Puncey really hasn't been at the level we would expect from a 1st rounder.
See, if you look at games this year I have seen a mess in Justin Pugh with the G Men, really bad games fro E Fisher in KC and Joeckel has not impressed me much. But guess what? Their coaches and fans have reasonable expectations and are not calling for their heads. To groom young players is a process and it takes time, good coaching and good leadership. Something it seems Martin was not given by anyone related to this organization.

LOL, EXACTLY!

Anyone not seeing this is stacking up as a well laid out and premeditated plan by Martin. Have not been carefully paying attention.

CONNECT THE DOTS, FOLLOW THE BREAD CRUMBS, IT WILL LEAD YOU ALL THE HOME.

The Fins like any other team in the NFL were just trying to toughen up their players.

Usually 1 of 2 things happen.

The player Mans up like Egnew.

Or

The Players Cracks like M.Wright.

It is an unwritten rule that you don't snitch on everyone your team, your coaches.

Martin should've went to Philbin and told him that he can't take the Bullying.

MARTIN NEVER TOLD PHILBIN HE WAS BEING BULLIED.

Mark is acting like a macho Canadian bully.

Sam I AM and LOL
Thank you guys.. i have been saying the exact same thing since last week and have been laughed at.. i think this is just a ploy to get him out of his contract and so he can still get paid... his parents are lawyer and his agent doesnt get paid either if he quits.. Pouncey made teh comment he didnt want to play anymore earlier in the year.. How as a 2nd yr player do you not show up for OTA's? that shows his want to play

No such thing as a macho Canadian bully....that sentence is an oxymoron!!

Mark,
Really? Calling me a Taco? Oh boy, seems you would fit right in this locker room

You called it Bill. It's amazing to me that we fans are asking the tough questions and the media is only interested in burning Richie. Don't they want the FULL STORY? Isn't that their job?

Burn Richie, go for it, burn him up. BUT, CALL MARTIN OUT FOR HIS ROLE IN THIS! Nope, it's the bullying/racist angle that sells product in this liberally biased joke of a country.

(By the way, love America, if not for the people it would be a wonderful place to live!)

Mark,


Its not Taco Tuesday!!!! Its wednesday!

Don't know how many of you followed Andrew Luck in our/my Suck-For-Luck campaign but I watched alot of Stanford games and will tell you now that Harbaugh had himself a hell of a team with Martin and DeCastro anchoring the OL. The truth here is once again the PAC Conf. has been exposed! If you watched Stanford at all you know that they ran Off-Tackle behind Martin a ton! DeCastro a personal protector of Luck and Fleener and Ertz were all that an a bag of chips at T.E.

I watched them HOUSE USC in a Primetime game were I was on-line with a few here watching the game raving about that OL! Again the PAC which is NOTORIOUS for giving us Joey Harrington, Akili Smith amongst others is a SOFT CONFERENCE! There the NCAA version of AAA ball! It's the reason I wouldn't touch Marcus Marriota unless he fell to RD-5 in the next draft and the fools who take his RB will get Reggie Bush 2.0! Yeah! I said it or don't any of you remember Reggie ripping it up at USC!

He was after all the 2nd overall selection of the draft with some saying he should have gone #1! It's a WEAK CONFERENCE NOTORIOUS FOR PRODUCING WEAK NFL PLAYERS! Period end of story!

Cmon Arturo....you are what you EAT!!

Why ruin a good news story with facts? This business of "unnamed sources" is total horsecrap. I can cite several unnamed sources that say I'm hung like a horse and have bedded several ladies.....and if you believe that, I've got some land in Alaska to sell you cheaply.

Phins78 Cogs was an easy target because he is insane and hated by Defensive players.

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