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Incognito considered black in Dolphins locker room

One of the most curious aspects of the Richie Incognito-Jonathan Martin story is how race has become very much a part of it outside the Dolphins locker room -- in the media and among fans and observers -- but not at all so far within the Dolphins locker room.

Think of this:

Richie Incognito left Jonathan Martin a voice mail that, among other things, called Martin a "half-n----r." And Dolphins players of color, knowing of the voicemail, have expressed no problems with Incognito.

"I don't have a problem with Richie," Mike Wallace said. "I love Richie."

"I don't think Richie is a racist," cornerback Brent Grimes said.

"Richie Incognito isn't a racist," tight end Michael Egnew said.

ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

 “They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

How is this possible?

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

Another former Dolphins employee told me Martin is considered "soft" by his teammates and that's a reason he's not readily accepted by some of the players, particularly the black players. His background -- Stanford educated and the son of highly educated people -- was not necessarily seen as a strength or a positive by some players and it perpetuated in the way Martin carried himself.

And so -- agree with it or not, comprehend it or not -- this is a reason the Dolphins haven't turned on Incognito as a racist.

Comments

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Who, Mr. 54% 26th best QB in the league overhyped Luck?

lol

What does 11 come-back wins mean? It means he's always about to lose and never with a lead.

Since this story broke last week I have been asking questions?? What has been leaked just doesn't add up?

Looks like the Dolphins front Office and fans have jumped the gun here. This problem must now, I say must--become a problem for thorough examination and scrutiny of Dolphins Management. Ireland, Philbin, and all higher ups need to be held accountable for this debacle.

ESPN HATES THE FINS THATS WHY

AND WARREN SAPP WAS A BULLY AND SAID MANY UNCOOL THINGS TO OPPONENTS. AND PROBABLY TO TEAM MATES BUT THING DIDN'T GET OUT LIKE THEY DO NOW.

Posted by: Phins78 | November 06, 2013 at 03:51 PM

I'VE BEEN PISSED MANY TIMES, AND NEVER ONCE, HAVE I HEADED STRAIGHT TO HOSPITAL FOR PSYCHIATRIC HELP.

THIS WREAKS OF A WELL THOUGHT OUT AND PREMEDITATED PLAN BY MARTIN. TIME FOR REPORTERS TO BEGIN ASKING HIM SOME VERY TOUGH QUESTIONS LIKE:

1. WHY DID YOU SAVE THE VOICE MAIL FOR 6MTH?
2. WHAT SPURRED YOU TO HEAD DIRECTLY TO THE HOSPITAL?
3. CAN YOU TWELL US EXACTLY WHY NOT 1 TEAMMATE HAS COME TO YOUR DEFENSE?

4. DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF BLACK PLAYERS ON THE TEAM SEEING COGS AS BLACK OR BEING ACCEPTED AS BLACK?

5. WHY DO YOUR TEAMMATES SEE YOU AS SOFT?

MARTIN REALLY NEEDS TO BE ASKED THESE SORT OF QUESTIONS.

I've been big in here on people not using racial slurs against each other. But that's completely different, we don't know each other so you haven't EARNED that from me.

My friends can do it because they are like family. People are taking this way out of context, just like Martin wanted.

I'll tell ya, I don't ever want to see this guy in a Dolphins uniform again. If they bring him back I will booo him and bully him from the stands every chance I get. F$#k him!

THE ONLY TIME BEING AN HONORARY BLACK IS GOOD IS WHEN

Your women bestows that honor upon you.

Hey Arturo Freeman,

You understand why I say Martin couldn't hack it and Egnew had a shot???

It is because one is an athlete and the other isn't. If you knew anything about my thought process on players, you woudl knwo I love measureables and I go on raving about Egnew's performance at his combine. Behind Vernon Davis and maybe Jimmy Graham, his #s are up there with anyone who plays the position in the NFL.

Martin is weak, soft, it came across in his performance and not just in his bench.

I had empirical data to power my opinion. You want to come on here and challenge my theories fine but don't act like I pull them out of nowhere. I have facts to back up anything I say definitively and if you want any further proof on hiw right I can be, look at the Martin Egnew dichotomy.

Martin was given positive reinforcement from the start, given a starting position, he failed miserably. And don't give me this it is a hard position to learn business, when you are the worst, you are not salvageable. You are garbage and will never be useful. It's not like he was in the bottom third or lower ten percent. He was THE WORST.

Now Egnew was written off for dead. Cursed out violently by his boss in front of the whole fandom. He puts his nose to the grindstone, has nobody believeing in him except maybe Dashi and myself and a cuple of others here and there but really nobody would've been really surprised if he faded away. Now for the last few weeks he's earned a role on this team and played well in an unnatural position.

You have one guy complaining about right v left tackle while one is playing a load of snaps at fullback instead of TE, now what's a bigger perceived demotion??

Mark my words, you will see Egnew become a bigger piece of the passing game too. he will be ten times the pro martin ever was, heck he is already is.

I say blow up the entire mgmt. and cut Cogs and Martin. In game 8 of an NFL season with our record being 4-4 this is the last thing the team should be concentrating on. For this reason alone fire them all!!

Sjrgh9, that was me.

ok people,enough is enough.there's a job to be done[play the game and try to win]grown men can hash out their problems with each other if out siders just stay out of it .give Martin and Richie that chance so they can move on in whatever direction they want to go.stop the name calling and put yourselves in their positions. stop feeding on the foolishness and let,s get back to having fun.
Clara

hey with our season over early, this least gives us stuff to talk about

I was calling you a Taco as in female genitalia... not ethnic cuisine.

Posted by: fin4life | November 06, 2013 at 03:56 PM

Just Stanford players today: Richard Sherman, Andrew Luck, Coby Fleener, De Castro, Griff Whalen, Tobi Gerhart plus others like John Lynch, John Elway, Bob Whitfield, Jim Plunkett et al. Weak players? Come on...That is just a silly statement.

And as much as I hate USC, are you saying Polamalu, Clay Mathews, Brian Cushing and a host of other greats are weak?

FYI, like Dino Bravo???

Piss poor mgmt. for 6 yrs under Ireland. The snake rots from the head down....it is time to cut the head off!! Philbin all the way down to the friggin ball boys!!

The Ukraine is weak

'Taco as in female genitalia'

What? First I heard that...Canadians surely are creative

"Richie is honarary"

is dropping the "a" in there the street cred spelling?

Q. How many people do you know who were suicidal & opted to finally get help instead of actually committing the act?

I'll answer my own question. None, they are all dead!

Armando,
Your weak and you want to stir the pot. Not everything in this world is racist. Have you or anyone else ever ( while you were apprehensive to do something)called you a pu**y or some other derogatory term? He was just trying to get the guy to toughen up. If you play in the NFL you have to be tough. If the NFL wants to change this they can let women play! If you are having sex in the bedroom and you call the girl( hopefully) a "B" or a "C" is she? No, its part of the moment. What happens in the locker-room should stay in the locker room. All this damn media and the damn country wants is to increase racial tensions to keep people divided. Armando, you and anyone else that wants to perpetuate this kind of situation should be ashamed and realize you are part of the problem and not the solution!!!!!

Sam email it to Armando.

I think we should all come up with a list of questions for Martin so we can make sure the right questions get asked and the conference doesn't turn into a softball game where he's at bat and the field is empty.

There are too many inconsistencies. Armando is a good reporter so I have faith he is noticing this and loading up for a good story or a great press conference.

But I'm also afraid that reporters will be afraid to go against the mob because they don't want to be harassed. Someone needs to man up, that will be the reporter I follow for life.

But we still think you eat tacos Arturo ;)

rdubs, get Arturo a lobstertube pass, he doesn't know what a Taco is ... geez

TAMPA MAY BE THE LAST GAME WE WIN THIS SEASON

And they played Seattle tough so I wouldn't say this is a gimme game although it should be.

f4l, Spellman was a big dude... affair with a DB... hope that DB wasn't the catcher ... yikes!!!

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | November 06, 2013 at 03:48 PM

He wasn't the only one, all this talk with Collins in the NBA coming out but there have been a few in the NFL, Spellmen wasn't the only one! If your a UM fan you knew that All-American DB Termain Mack was a FRUIT and I mean a BIG ONE! He was as open about it around town as you can get, it was about the most open secret of Butch Davis's team! He went to the Bengals dropping into RD-4 not just because of the Alcoholic issues (which I think the kid had conflicted about who he was and the World he lived in as a Football player) but because they had to know about the Sexual orientation issue and bringing it in the Locker Room. He would go to 2 Pro Bowls before a 4th DUI arrest in Ohio put him behind bars for 3 Yrs. but there was alot going on there.

THE WIN OVER CINCY WAS HUGE

By the way we did win our last game.
Just when the season is about to collapse we pull out the win to keep things alive.
Now this martin/incogs crap.

I'LL HAVE MY TACOS

With the curtains removed first.

.and if you believe that, I've got some land in Alaska to sell you cheaply.

Posted by: H.C.D. | November 06, 2013 at 03:58 PM

I would personally like to sell you the Elevator of Miami's Criminal Courts Building. You can charge everybody going up to Court a Quarter for using it and make yourself a fortune in the process!

I started writing a post that addressed this today, but there's something about being a part of a tight-knit team of brothers where our cultural sensitivity to race is trivial, and that brotherhood supersedes the political correctness that our external society demands.

It's hard for us to understand, but when you're unified as a team you can even joke around areas of higher sensitivity (even racial remarks) b/c there's a recognition that you're part of something that transcends what otherwise may create division b/c your friendships and brotherhood supersede it.

The outside public and the media fail to recognize that simply b/c they're abiding by the rules of another culture. Without some attempt to relate to a different code of ethics and values that pervade a football team, you simply isolate a few of the words and actions without context and then demonize and martyr those involved.

Having said that, Richie (and probably others) probably stepped over the line. Even the coaches might need to step back and address the situation to see how they may handle things differently (and they are). But the drama that's unfolded and the nationwide vilification is not only ignorant (in the truest sense of the word) and unfortunate, but cruel.

hey with our season over early, this least gives us stuff to talk about

Posted by: dusty bottoms | November 06, 2013 at 04:02 PM

dusty you really make no sense at times. The fins could very well win the next three games and be 7-4. How in the hell is the season over? You're not thinking.

I feel like some of you aren't going to root for the team until they go 8-2 to start the season. You do realize all kinds of playoff teams and even super bowl teams go in at 10-6 and 9-7 right? Dusty are you French? Is that why you give up so easy?

Mark, I was a big supporter of Martin. I was confident & more than confident, praying Martin can bulk up & play OT. If not, another hole on the team.

All scouting reports I read were that Martin has the quick feet & lateral movement to play OT & that was most important. The strength & condition aspect he was deficient in could be taught & come along with training.

What I & people like me who wished & thought this kid could produce with a lil help did not know was that aside from the physical strength, he lacks mental strength. Obviously we are seeing which is more important!

I don't think anyone would have counted on this guy had we known just how weak he was mentally. He's proven me wrong & the only plus side is we won't have to wait years til he "gets" it which is par for the course with Ireland picks.

National media killing local guys


The NFL Players Association is making an attempt to open up the lines of communication between the camps of Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin.

Oscar,
whats the minimum stay at a hospital when they hold someone that is deemed suicidal?

To add on to what Chester said. The media is just playing the politically correct card because it sells, that's all.

The players have all said they have no problem with this! So the media expecting the opposite chose to ignore this information and be outraged for everyone on their own.

The players aren't outraged.

The majority of the fans aren't outraged.

Hel, the NFL isn't even making a huge deal about it.

That leaves Jonathan Martin and the media, two pu$#y peas in a pu%$y pod.

72 hrs in NYC

Oscar,
whats the minimum stay at a hospital when they hold someone that is deemed suicidal?

Posted by: mattybfromnc | November 06, 2013 at 04:15 PM

My Bro-In-Law is a SWAT Paramedic and it's 72 Hrs.

This story is beginning to absolutely WREAK of PREMDITATION and COGS being given an EXTREMELY RAW DEAL by Jonathan Martin.

WE DO NOT NEED THE HUBBLE TELESCOPE TO SEE THIS!

lets face it, the 9-0 Chiefs are the surprise of the league and messed everything up--we're only at the midway point and there literally is only 1 playoff/WC spot up for grabs....few expected Miami to win the division, so a WC was the most realistic shot at the playoffs....now 5-6 mid pack teams will be fighting for that last spot.

Phins78 I listened to NFL Radio on Sirius all day today. Richie Gannon has been in many locker rooms in his 17 yrs and he said that this crap NEVER went on. He said that in Oakland it was there when he arrived but he put an end to it. He further stated that winning organizations do not allow this mentality. Gannon is in total support of Martin as was Madden and many others. They all agreed that it goes to a vacume in leadership in the Dolphins locker room. That we cannot debate....we have no leadership!

Only thing I think trumps this story is for the Dolphins to go on a 8-0 to 7-1 season ending run, in spite of this.

WINNING TRUMPS EVERYTHING!

Sammmmm with this coaching staff????

Bill....lets say we might have "weak leadership" (Im talking about Fin players)--but I maintain that the players didnt step in because they didnt see anything too wrong about any of it....nothing unusual enough to step in and "lead"--watch their interviews....they clearly didnt think it was a big deal, and in fact some seem to have no idea what much of this is even about--not sure its a lack of leadership....it just seems like the norm, to them, so they didnt feel the need to address it.

phins 78 i dont care what they could do, they COULD GO 12-4. AND BRONCOS COULD FINISH 7-9. but we know neither will happen, another pointless 7-9 season instead of finishing 4-12 will kill us again like always

not true fin4life, craig got out in 6 hours

Everyone is so quick to take Martin's side and condemn Incognito and the Dolphins..

What if this is all just a ploy by Martin and his rep to create this scandal and use the scandal to make enough money to retire and get back at the Dolphins for switching him back and forth at left and right tackle, because he couldn't handle the job and was afraid he was being replaced altogether. He made it clear BEFORE he walked off that he upset with being switched in this statement: “You can go in the tank and be one of those guys who [complains] and moans and is a cancer in the locker room, or you can be a guy who goes out there and can be a professional and plays as hard as I can.” So I guess he changed his mind and decided to "be a cancer in the locker room".

Martin also said this MONTHS before he left the team:

As for Martin’s thoughts of leaving the team, here’s how Carter characterized the situation: “There were times he struggled as a rookie and contemplated, ‘Am I cut out for this?’ ”

So it's hard to give up all that money, so lets devise a scheme so Martin can sue the Dolphins and he goes out like the "poor mistreated" football player with millions of dollars, instead of "the loser" that couldn't handle it and in his own words, not "cut out for this" and of course not one penny.. His agent and lawyers also stand to make some money from a law suit where they wouldn't make a dime otherwise, so they come up with a plan and which would you choose? Let's see; good guy with millions of dollars or loser without a dime?

Benz leadership means there is somebody in a position of authority that a player would feel comfortable going to open up to. This team has no leaders. I preface the following by stating I think Martin had a hidden agenda....however Martin obviously felt trapped and had no where to turn so he walked out.
When I was growing up I always stood up for the weak. I would kinda know when enough was enough and I would step in.....don't ya think that somebody saw that what was going on was too much??

dusty--were you expecting "alot" better than 7-9, at the beginning of the season?--MAYBE 9-7, at best?--were you expecting much more?

Never can tell what can happen if the entire locker room rallies around this situation. We could go on a 8-0 to 7-1 season run, regardless of being coached by the Mickey Mouse Club.

Yeah, Bill. Rich Gannon saw some black players saying "sup my, N..." And he said. Now you guys need to stop saying that word. Ok. And it was done. LOL
Rich is the Man. Don't listen to that music either.


Gannon is in total support of Martin as was Madden and many others. They all agreed that it goes to a vacume in leadership in the Dolphins locker room. That we cannot debate....we have no leadership!

Posted by: Bill Arnsparger | November 06, 2013 at 04:23 PM

Bill,

I have a feeling some of the "leaders" in Madden's Raiders locker rooms would make Cogs look like an angel.

Besides, Madden has to protect his brand nowadays. He's got to come out on the PC side of this.

no benz i was expecting another pointless 7-9 year, i have always targeted 2014 as the year we make strides towards playoffs. "seriously" havent heard really anyone taking martins side


You cannot tell me Dolphins players never once heard Incognito’s verbal taunts, never once noticed a young lineman in emotional distress, never once thought, “Man, this has gone a little too far.” And it is every person who saw what was happening to Martin and did nothing who deserve our condemnation.

Bill, Never can tell what may happen if the talent on this team rallies around this situation and goes on a 8-0 to 7-1 season ending run. Sometimes in these type situations its very much possible. Regardless if that team is being coached by the Mickey Mouse club.

There's certainly enough talent to make it so if to a man everyone is focused and plays the best football of their lives.

No, Bill that's the whole point. A lot of us DON'T think people saw what was going on. We think what people did see were the pranks that Martin also participated in. We think people saw the pictures being circulated of Martin and Richie hanging out, smiling and goofing off in. By the way...you sound like a superhero in that last post. That was pretty good how you protect the weak and all.

Rich Gannon is flat out lying!

I have a life example to share. I went to highschool in Schenectady NY, we were a very racially mixed school. You name it, Italians, Irish, African American, Asian, we had it all.

I played football and the majority of guys on the team were black. My friend Chris, 6'5" and 225lbs in 10th grade was the defensive end on our team and one hell of a player. Loved Chris who we nicknamed "Huggy Bear" (TRUST ME IT FIT) and we spent a lot of time at each others homes eating dinner, playing games whatever , point is we knew eachothers families as well.

Chris and I used to walk around all day saying things to each other out of jest. They were RACIALLY CHARGED words yet we would laugh and here's why. Chris was my brother, I didn't care what color his skin was and he didn't care about my skin color. The racial stuff was funny to us, we made a joke out of it because it was so ridiculous! As in we didn't believe it, it was all so silly, so why not make fun of it. We made the words meaningless.

He would yell to me down the school hall, "Hey (Phins78;), go wash your hair I can see the lice from here!" I would yell something back about watermelon or chicken. You name it, we would use these ridiculous stereotypical comments and laugh. We were brothers, we were teammates, and other team members understood what was going on.

It's not fair that people on the outside are sitting in judgement of these events when they weren't even present to witness them.

Like I said martin should take up ballet. And give us our trench bulldog back.

this whoe thing has ackomplished one thing no one italking abut how shitty the OLINE is any longer!!

Great diversion Martin

The N word is used all the time between black dudes and Rich Gannon would have no authority to tell other blk players whether to use it or no. Get ouuta here with that!

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