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Getting Zack Martin may require trade up contingency

I spent the morning talking to three NFL scouting and personnel department sources and, of course, my interest was centered almost exclusively on the situation the Dolphins will face at No. 19 when they are on the clock a month from now during the draft.

And the read I'm getting is the Dolphins are going to be wholly dependent on what happens in front of them, barring a trade up, if they are to get the starting right tackle everyone says should go to them -- Notre Dame tackle Zack Martin.

There are apparently four consensus first round tackles in this draft. They are in order from the folks I'm talking to, Auburn's Greg Robinson, Texas A&M's Jake Matthews, Michigan's Taylor Lewan and Martin.

Yes, there are other tackle possibilities such as Virginia's Morgan Moses, Tennessee's Ju'Wuan James, Alabama's Cyrus Kouandjio and even perhaps Nevada's Joel Bitonio, who jumps in there if you're talking to people who don't mind an undersized tackle. But those guys are not considered first-round values. Solid players. Good prospects.

But not as good as Robinson, Matthews, Lewan and Martin coming out.

Having said that, the Dolphins are not getting Robinson or Matthews. Both of them are top 10 picks. And without multiple picks in the first couple of rounds, the Dolphins don't have obvious ammunition to execute a trade up that high unless they want to go without picks in the second and third round or are willing to invest 2015 picks.

Lewan and Martin will be more attainable if Miami wants to grab either of them in a trade up. Why would the Dolphins have to consider a trade up to get one of those, you ask?

Well, apparently neither is certain to be there when the Dolphins pick.

As there are four first-round tackles, there are five teams already ahead of Miami that can use tackle upgrades. St. Louis, Atlanta, Detroit, the New York Giants and Baltimore may all be considering getting help at tackle before the Dolphins are scheduled to pick.

So if things go exactly wrong, with five teams picking before Miami vying for four sure-fire first-round tackles, the Dolphins are left ... well, needing another option.

Furthermore, Arizona (20th overall), Kansas City (23), and Carolina (28) have tackle needs to varying degrees and may consider jumping up ahead of Miami.

The point here is the idea of Zach Martin, who by all accounts is a clean pick and a value at No. 19, being available to Miami when the time comes is very nice and almost convenient. But it is hardly a certainty.

Last year, there was a run on tackles early in the draft and teams were willing to pick players they ended up using on the right side as rookies simply to solidify their lines for the present and the future.

Are teams this year suddenly going to decide the tackle spot is less important and let a solid one be available at No. 19?

Dolphins fans would love to believe so -- especially since Martin is seemingly perfectly suited for Miami's need at right tackle. But a sure thing? No.

General manager Dennis Hickey is going to need trade-up contingencies to be certain he gets Martin.

Comments

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Z.Martin Sucks!!

If the Fins move up it better be for Matthews or Lewan.

Martin is a Guard at the Pro Level.

J.Martin is also a Guard in the NFL. He doesn't have what it takes to be a NFL Tackle.

The question is what are they going to have to give up to move up?

*This blog entry has been brought to you by the incessant posting by Mark in Toronto

mando, i will be expecting royalties soon..

Zach Martin will be selected 15th by the Pittsburgh Steelers

Taylor Lewan will be selected 14th by the Miami Dolphins

They can't afford to give away high picks. Especially in this year's draft. This is where we'll see Hickey's true ability as a GM. Can he make something out of nothing or will he sell the farm for one horse? Hickey is on the clock!

If "Da Hick" is going to trade up you better hire Jeff Ireland as a "consultant" That man knows how to trade up for top talent.

1. Dion Jordan
2. Daniel Thomas
3. Pat White

And two things mando...

1. You should suggest where it is Miami could affordably move up to draft Lewan (i.e. 14 to the Bears is prime) gets them ahead of Baltimore and Pittsburgh

2. martin is no sure thing at RT. If he was a true tackle there would be none of this .. well he can play all along the line. Taylor lewan could lay 4 spots on the line too but only an idiot would put him at guard because he will eventually dominate at LT.

This entry was again, half way done at best...

A trade up is good conversation but we don't have extra picks to do it with. I'm not a fan if a trade up personally.

J Martin > Z Martin

Trading up to 14 would cost as high as a 3rd, as low as a 6th.

Two things need to happen for a trade up to occur.

1. Lewan needs to be available passed the Rams
2. Donald needs to be selected before the Bears

Donald is too good for the bears let go to Dallas...

And like Dashi says, Lewan is the owner's favourite player in this draft, can't be overlooked.

mando should've lifted some quotes from Barry Jackson on this topic... shed a lot of light.

J Martin > Z Martin
Posted by: Dashi, boy of 1000 names | April 11, 2014 at 12:06 PM

Reality > Your opinion

NeMo from the last blog, yeah i know the OL and WR class gets a lot of pub but I think the DE class is just as rich so even though we don't have a need, if a guy with a 2nd round grade falls, it's always wise to take him in.

Never have enough pass rushers...

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | April 11, 2014 at 12:17 PM

Which is true if they get significant snaps. A Philbin coached team won't allow for it. We have needs that almost certainly be filled by the draft but at positions where we need those rookies to start now. We can think to the future (we already have with Jordan) but we can't have high picks languishing on the sidelines again this season IMO.

I am against it since I still have faith in Dion Jordan. But considering The eagles needs help at pass rush and is trying acquire dion Jordan in a trade. How about Miami trades Dion to the eagles for lance Johnson straight up? would that be fair? A Need for A Need. Any Thaughts????

I would never trade up to take a guard or right tackle that's just stupid we only have 6 picks now you want us to give up another one

There are so many lineman we can take it would make better sense to trade down or take someone that slides like Eric Ebron or somebody like that

Mark, you have he Bears pegged pretty well. If Donald is there at 14, he is gone. He won't fall any further. He fits exactly what their GM wants, athletic guys in the trenches (Kyle Long last year).

Beyond that, he wants to trade down. He could still get a decent defensive player at 19 and more picks.

I would NOT trade up for Zach Martin. If he falls and we take him at 19 thats one thing. I would only trade up for Lewan if he fell.

If we are at 19 probably look to trade down. If that doesn't work look at Shazier as a good player at a position we could use help at.

I wouldn't trade Johnson for Jordan straight up. We can get another Johnson in this draft.
We can't get another Dline/LB this draft who can cover the likes of Gronk.

Maybe if the price was right but not straight up..

Posted by: Marc from nj | April 11, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Marc I understand we have 7 picks
The 7th rounder that we gave Baltimore for McKinney is in next year's draft, 2015 not this year

Ralph @ 12:40, you are correct.

Omar Kelly's updated draft has come out. He has Zach Martin going to the Jets at 18. He has CJ Mosley going to the Dolphins at 19. Kelly states that Mosley is instictive and would mean an upgrade for two positions as Ellerbe would move to his more natural position at the weak side.

I am a bit concern about this pick. Are Alabama LBs a product of Nick Saban's system. Last highly talked up LB from Alabama was Rolando McClain who was picked in the top 10 of the draft. He is now out of the league and sucked as an NFL player.

@ garn, I'm just looking at the value 3rd overall and 4th overall from last draft. I don't want us to trade up in the draft to draft an OL when we only have 6 draft picks.

Let's see we signed a wr that had a mediocre year 3 years ago and riding the pine for the last 2 years and the homers are giving Dickey a standing ovation

Is the desire to win so badly that totally blinds you? Is the desperation to win so great that you force yourself to seethese acorns as the food players we need to win?

I can not wrap my mind around some of the comments I read. Guys we can not expect that the ackups we sign suddenly turn into superstars. There isareason why smith was a 6th round and backup, there is a reason why this Damian dude (not even in fantasy football I have heard Bout this guy) started just one game with 0, I repeat 00000 TD last 2 seasons

What is the logic here? That the 8th last and only candidate for our GM position, the man that was part of the team that dragged TB to a 28-52 record and 4-12 last season suddenly by divine intervention became a great talent evaluator and can see greatness where other just saw chit?....really?...I mean really really you guys believe that?

Never really knew the power of homerness until I joined this blog

I don't knowwhat to say. I am awestruck

"And the read I'm getting is the Dolphins are going to be wholly dependent on what happens in front of them"

"Well, apparently neither is certain to be there when the Dolphins pick"

Mando, do you mean that in the NFL draft, a team's pick is dependent on who is already picked ahead of them and there is no guarantee a certain player will be there. Well, thank you Captain Obvious.

I know news is slow but c'mon Mando, don't just write to take up space.

How would the jets draft OL? that would be very unorthodox

Dolphins need to grab one of the stop gap options left in FA and take best player available at 19th pick. Clabo is my pick to sign, YES he had a bad first half of 2013, but was good enough for the second half. Sign clabo and perhaps we get lucky and can get a solid second round guard this year and look to upgrade RT next year, This is simple

You don't trade up in the 1st round for a RT. Period.
You trade up for an elite LT or you wait for value in the later rounds

Browns transition-tagged center Alex Mack signed his five-year, $42M offer sheet that includes $26M guaranteed with the Jaguars.

@ go goo, you do realize that these players they signing are to fill the 90 some roster you need before minicamp? they are just practice scrub guys. every team makes these types of signings to fill the roster.

I would not trade up as the dolphins need help in multiple areas. I would either trade down (if possible) to get an additional pick or draft the BPA. The fins can find a good OL in the second round (OT or G). This is a deep OT draft, though the elite tackles will be gone before the dolphins pick at 19. If Martin is gone, I would take the best OL available OL in the second or third round. There are solid OT prospects in the 2nd and 3rd round.

Zack Martin is a better prospect than Lewan. And trading up for Lewan who has never played RT before in his life would be one of the dumbest moves in NFL history.
I don't particularly want either badly but I'd rather Martin.
I don't think Miami gets either though. Why is Armando talking like the only position Miami needs is a Right Tackle? LOL

Whoever said we should give up picks for Taylor Lewan I think I need a lie down LOL. This place is off the chain! hahaha

a 3rd round pick is not a high pick...

not many 3rd round pick pro bowlers walking the earth these days..

Tururun tuntucutun Tutun
Tururun tuntucutun tutun

Miami has the dolphins
The greatest acorn team
We sign acorns from from goal to goal
Like no one ever seen

We sign them on the air and on the ground
We are always acorntrol
And when you say Miami
You are are talking Super Acorn

Cause we are the
Miami Acorns, Miami Acorns
Miami Acorns number 1

Everybody...
Miami Acorns, Miami Acorns
Miami Acorns number 1

TurunRun tuntucutun Tutun

Martin is a better prospect than Lewan ... said nobody ... except jordan

@ go goo, you do realize that these players they signing are to fill the 90 some roster you need before minicamp? they are just practice scrub guys. every team makes these types of signings to fill the roster.

If Martin is gone. They cannot take an OL with that pick. The logical thing to do would be take bpa and then the best available OL in the second round (Yankee, Moses, Bittolo, etc.) I would love for Ebron to fall to our laps at 19, or just take a dynamic WR, a shut down corner, or ball hawking safety. As I mentioned before, I am not crazy about Mosley at LB but that is another option.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9581

actually teams tend to agree Martin > Lewan

The same people arguing for a trade up will be bitching and moaning a year from now when Miami doesn't have a high-round pick as a result of it.

Guaranteed.

dbo, i'd be up for that trade... actually lane johnson was the guy i would've drafted at 3... think Philbin would have too.. that is probably what broken phibin's back regarding Ireland and a conspiracy theorist would say why we never saw Jordan fully utilized.

In fact I asked someone who knows a lot more than me and they expect Lewan to be there at 19

Killing some time on fanspeak. I don't think too many of these players would be around at certain points, but it would be great if they were.


YOUR PICKS
R1
OLB RYAN SHAZIER
OHIO STATE
R2
TE JACE AMARO
TEXAS TECH
R3
G TRAI TURNER
LSU
R4
RB BISHOP SANKEY
WASHINGTON
R5
QB TOM SAVAGE
PITTSBURGH
R6
OLB KEVIN PIERRE-LOUIS
BOSTON COLLEGE
R7
RB JERICK MCKINNON
GEORGIA SOUTHERN

Dbo, I get that. But why the standing ovation for Dickey? That is what I am talking about

I don't think we will trade up
to do so we would have to jump at least to Chicago's spot #14
that would cost us 325 points because #14 pick is worth 1100 and #19 is worth 875

that means that we would almost certainly have to give up our second round pick worth 390 points in order to move up
Our third round pick is only worth 180
so that would be too costly in my opinion in a year where we need players and we can pick up a starter in round 2
I just don't see that happening
plus the difference between players Martin and any of the 4 other tackles later in the draft is only 10% better
I think we go with a second round tackle if Martin is not there at 19 and we pick best available player that meets our needs at LB, safety, or TE.
I could see a trade down as making more sense since we can surely use an additional starter and we would definitely pick one up by trading back.
I am sure that this scenario has been and will be the topic of discussion by the front office and many hours will be spent evaluating all the options depending n how the draft goes and in the end common sense will prevail over falling in love with one particular player.

Unless you have xtra pics and/or need that one player for a SB run, it's foolish to trade up.
This draft is the end result of bad decisions last year. Be smart and stay at 19 or trade down. We're not 1 piece away.

It is possible that Lewan will be available at 19. He is now being viewed as a bad character guy as he has had a couple of disciplinary issues. So do the Dolphins take a chance on a guy like that on the OL after Incognito? I don't know if Ross would touch him with a 10 foot pole (though he is from Michigan).

who is giving a standing ovation for hickey on this blog for the signing?

Mark from Toronto, Ireland already made the mistake from 'you can never have enough pass rushers'. This draft season the Dolphins have to go after protecting the QB and getting guys out in front of the screens, which they could not do with their OG personnel. Therefore very few screens were called. They were called to beat the Dolphins though by the Buffalo Bills. Imagine that a bad team like the Bills beat the Dolphins with the screen pass. Go Figure?

Lewan just makes no sense for Miami dude has never played RT before he is a pure LT and he has his issues

Omar Kelly is off his fukking rocker. The jets are going CB (our version of getting Lewan since that would combine BPA in dennard or Gilbert or Roby and biggest need). Us and Pittsburgh are the only teams so depleted in o line talent at that point in the draft that would consider overdrafting Martin. I mean a guy who's ceiling is RT? In this draft? pff have to be in some kind of bind to pull that move.

Also teams ahead of Dolphins are in the need of running backs, and there are not much quality running backs in this draft. Also are serviceables offensive tackles in later rounds.

If the top 4 tackles are taken in the top 12 picks then players as WR Brandin Cooks or LB Mosley are very likely to be available for the dolphins.

For me is a matter of patience and see what is happen by the round 12.

I don't doubt that this person knows more than you, but no way Lewan gets through all those teams before 12 that need a tackle then Pittsburgh and Baltimore ... no freaking way...

promichael, you do realize I'm talking about using a mid round pick on a de possibly.. not the 19th or 50th picks, right? When you get into the 3rd round you are starting to talk non starters year one ... unless you're jax or oakland.

Here is Omar Kelly's argument about why the Jets will take Zach Martin:

"Willie Colon and Breno Giacomini are stop-gap options for the Jets, but Zack Martin could be a solid starter on the right side of New York's offensive line for the next decade, and his versatility elevates his draft stock"

Unless the Dolphins trade Jordan and gain the No 22 overall pick trading up for a RT in RD 1 is just a DUMB move. And yes Lewan will be there. Martin I could see going to Rams Steelers or Ravens.
Steelers and Ravens both need help in the secondary so that is where they would go instead of Lewan.

The Jeff Ireland curse will live on. Had Ireland did the right thing in 2013, this conversation never exists. Now we're in a situation to do even further damage to the future prospects of this franchise.

Say we trade up. What happens if the guy sustains a career threatening injuring never returning to peak performance, ala Jake Long? Not only are we without peak performance at the position, we're out of multiple draft picks traded for that player.

Now all of a sudden the waterpipe develop several leaks because we do not have those picks to plug them. Then, not only has that position been affected, other positions become affected too because of those absence of draft picks.

These things tend to have great domino affect tendancy when they go wrong. Therefore, I'm more aboard with grabbing a RT 2nd rd if need be. At least this way we aren't compromising multiple future position by giving up multiple draft picks.

In picking your poison, you always go with the "lesser evil".

Omar Kelly... If I remember right the Jets have Ferguson and Giocomini as their tackles.

I mean I would hope they take Martin at 18 to be a guard in this draft, but I doubt they will. If they're smart they add a corner or a nice playmaker.

"Jake Long career threatning injury"? ARE YOU DRUNK? Long was the 7th best OT in football before he got hurt last year LMFAO

FINALY MANDO CATCHES ON

I'm the first one that said we need to trade up not back in the 1st round.
I can prove it simply by going through the archives, in fact that is probably where Mando got the idea.

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