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Turner played OT in college, must be G in NFL

One of the problems the Dolphins have had with player development the past few years is they don't always have a clear vision about their talent.

Just prior to this draft, the Dolphins weren't sure if they were going to use 2013 draft pick Dallas Thomas as a guard or a tackle. So a year after picking him, having him in training camp and, indeed, getting him started in this year's offseason program, last year's third-round pick didn't know his position. (He should be a guard, folks).

Dannell Ellerbe, signed to a big-money contract to play middle linebacker last year, may be moving outside this year because that work he did at MLB was no bueno.

Koa Misi was drafted as a 3-4 outside linebacker but he's been taking repetitions as a middle linebacker now -- an experiment that has been tried multiple times during his time with the team. Jared Odrick? Drafted as a 3-4 DE. Now a 4-3 DT.

Dion Jordan? Is he a defensive end? Is he an outside linebacker? What's the vision for him?

And that brings me to Billy Turner, a Dolphins third-round selection in this most recent draft.

Turner played left tackle at North Dakota State as the Bisons won three consecutive FCS (small school) championships. Some teams projected him as a right tackle prior to the draft.

The Dolphins have not said where they want him to settle in.

Here's an idea: The Dolphins should settle Turner in at guard and ...

Keep.

Him.

There.

The Dolphins drafted a right tackle in the first round in Ja'Wuan James. They signed left tackle Branden Albert to a huge contract in free agency.

They have a hole at guard.

Turner, by all accounts, has a nasty personality on the field. He plays with good (should improve) pad level. He's a guard, folks.

The Dolphins do not need him competing with fellow rookie James at RT. It's a waste of repetitions. It asks too much to have him learn both spots right now. It doesn't maximize his chances to contribute early.

If I'm the Dolphins, I do with James and Turner what Don Shula tried multiple times in the 1990s: He picked Richmond Webb to play left tackle and Keith Sims to play left guard in 1990 and that's what the two rookies did every single repetition in practice and every single down in the preseason.

Voila, offensive line issues solved.

Shula tried a similar approach in 1995. He picked Billy Milner to play right tackle and Andrew Greene to play right guard. He didn't mess with position flexibility. He had a vision for both and gave each a chance to maximize at the positions they were selected to play.

It didn't work. Greene was not a brilliant guy or a very hard worker. Bust. Milner's talent was not up to par and he was gone from the team a year later.

But the point is they failed based on their talent level rather than a lack of vision or difficult circumstances created by the team plugging them in here or there.

The Dolphins have picked offensive tackle Billy Turner this draft. Make him a guard. Stick with the conviction. Now, release the hounds.

Let Turner hunt.

 

Comments

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Ah neMo, your last post jsut reminded me that had a shot at Robinson and Adams at 50 as well. ah, I think I just shat myself.

People want to point at Landry's production ... Adams had 1800 yards and 24 tds and is a much more suprior athlete.

Robinson had more yards too and is 6'2 220 lbs...

Armando,
Philbin is clueless. Way over his head. A bad season looms and another cleaning house adventure awaits.

I'm as excited about the Landry pick because Miami NEVER takes WRs like this in the early/mid rounds--competitive, talented ballers--instead, we take guys like Ginn, Patrick Turner, Egnew, Gates, Hagan--thats what we're used to....and you all are complaining about Landry's metrics?

still need
a qb

the line is fine now. turner will play guard. problem solved. now lets TRADE FOR ANDRE JOHNSON!!! BRING THE BEAST HOME!!! next years 4th should do it. aj, wallace, hartline, landry. BOOM!!! rishard and binns can be 5 and 6.

This team is in shambles

surprise, surprise. as always we dont have a clear vision for our draft picks and will try to make it work by putting players in their unnatural position and setting them up for failure. wash, rinse, repeat...

I agree, for the most part. However, when it comes to playmakers, coaching staffs should have some flexibility to maximize their full potential. The Dolphins did not demonstrate any creatvity last season. They had Mike Wallace run the same patterns on the same side of the field on just about every offensive possession. Ryan Tannehill was not allowed to roll-out or run despite the fact that was one of his strengths. And, Dion Jordan was used primarily as a defensive end even though Skip Kelly and others wanted to draft him as a pass rushing linebacker who also excelled in covering tight-ends. If your 4-3 defensive alignment is not working, what's wrong with using a little creativity and installing a hybrid scheme that maximizes your players' potential.

MIT,

busy work day by my understanding is he was mid second round grade before 4.77. So we traded down picked up another pick and got him at 63 ( 13 picks later) and then used the ammo to move up and get milner. Looks like a solid play if they both work out. Again if.

WHERE IS JAMES RIGHT HAND IN THIS PHOTO?

http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/7405/nfl-nation-buzz-miami-dolphins-28

qnilly turner played LT put him at LG. he can compete there and at some point he could be LT after Albert is no longer here. much easier to slide over than switch sides. there is enough other OL to find a RG.

clee, sure, I will buy that explanation. I just saw so much better in this draft class. I knew they would pick a WR all along.. but this guy?

You told the Blog that drafting a LT and expecting him to play RT was a BAD decision because guys had issues translating and I disagreed with you then and find it interesting you're now advocating plugging a LT at LG. I disagreed with you because I saw Dallas take 3 LT's in the 90's and have them play at pro Bowl levels at a variety of Positions.

Eric Williams was a LT at an FCS School mind you who was a Pro Bowl NFL RT (And to this day the meanest SOB I ever saw) Larry Allen out of Tiny Sanoma St. as well playing RG early then LT to finish his Dallas days at RT before becoming a 49ers RG. Followed by Flozelle Adams who played RG and LT in Big D.

When asked the Team (Jerry who learned OL from JJ better than anything else) said that LT's have the highest grade of any OL Pos. on his boards because they're usually the best athlete's out of the OL so if you have a high grade on one you take him ahead of any other Pos. on the OL!

(Again the JJ way were at UM LB's became DE's and S's turned into LB's TO GET THE FASTEST MOST ATHLETIC GUYS ON THE FIELD GIVEN AHLETICS TRANSLATE TO VERSATILITY!!)

They further proved there point with LT washes but LG & RT Pro Bowl players Leonard Davis and Columbo giving Dallas a near 2 decade run of the best OL or Top-3.

Had we been fortunate to have one of the Big-3 fall to us it would have lent alot more flexibilty to what we can expect but we did get this kid B.Turner who is from his video clips obviously a phenom athletic talent. So yes plug him into the LG spot with an eye on maybe moving him to LT in 2016 after you've paid Albert his guaranteed portion given J.James might have more issue slidding over!

By the way great piece on what Shula did!! So in 90 we drafted a LT % LG respectfully and we played them at those positions? What vision!! I would have put them both on the punt team myself! Same with Milner out of Houston in 95! Whoa!!

scott, Andre Johnson is too big, fast and talented for the Dolphins

Maybe they will call Ricky Proehl back out of retirement or re-sign Davone Bess now as a good value.

exactly
Armando
tpuke was drafted
as a qb and evry1
kno's he's a wr
.
lol

So another useless article and more trolls responding

Running the 40 i shorts and an under armour shirt are different than running routes in pads. Landry can play football. We need skill players that make plays. I personally think the draft was well executed. This team was an offensive line away from making the playoffs last year. End of story. Well......we addressed the line in the offseason and in the draft. W lost nobody that was worth keeping, and we added a veteran cb, veteran safety, veteran ot, and picked up a good wr and undervalued lb in the draft......why all the negativity.......oh yeah the fins havent won a playoff game....blah blah balh neither have the cowboys,jets,falcons,bucs, but they dont get bashed on the regular. Actually the cowboys are superbowl contenders every year.......ha....funny....if you really enjoy football then watching this team last year was pretty exciting. Yeah we blew a couple of games and the pats are sooooooo awesome.....how many super bowls have they won in the last 5 years???? exactly.....so tired of so called fans bashing this team. We are far from the worst and far from the best but we are making strides in the right direction.

f4l, that thought Mando put in everyone's head here is hogwash. Everyone knows college Lts the vast majority of the time are cross-trained to RT if they lack the feet for LT or the already has a vet starter there.

Mando was just coming up for ammo for mocking James to us.

I don't have the exact figure on this but in a brainstorming session we had here last week, we could only come up with 4 college RTs that were drafted to play RT in the NFL that were selected in the first round of the modern NFL draft.. there may be more but not many...

Harris Barton, Kwame harris, Dj Fluker, and now James.

It is far from a common practice in NFL circles.

So if (and likely when) Albert misses time this year, who is going to fill in at LT? James can't play there and Turner will get eaten alive.
Another reason why teams draft LTs to play RT in the NFL. Not only are they better athletes that RTs they can fill in in pinch at LT.

Another wasted season down the drain.At least the BYE BYE week is early and the fans can save their money by avoiding this continuous train wreck of a franchise for the final 8 games....

MIT,

Definite an outlier draft picks. I believe in athletic metrics especially in the first round where you that elite game changing freak athlete.

By late second, 3 4 ect…. I am okay drafting football players IF you can done the homework to justify success on the next level.

i cant predict Landry success but hopefully hickey did. i do think then nfl has created a niche for slower tough inside receivers who catch everything.

Position flexibility is short for not great at any one spot!! I'm sick of hearing about this. Go get guys that can play a spot great! Who cares if they can play multiple spots if they aren't good enough to start at one. That is how you build a mediocre to poor OL! I am glad they took James because whether he is good or not they needed a RT and they got a guy who that is what he plays. I laugh at all those people that wanted Zach Martin in the first - why?? - for a guard?? 1st rd to convert a guy to a guard? I agree with Mando here - find Turner a home, put him there, and give him as many reps as he can take. How many Garner's can you have on a team? He can play every spot but not good enough to start at any. You need starters and this looking for positional flexibility crap is why our OL has not been very good IMO. Love the Albert signing and James pick because we have 2 guys where you know exactly were they play - plug them in and move on.

mark in toronto....

andre johnson will be 33 in july......hes hurt every year.....the only reason he isnt hanging up his cleats is the same reason houston cant trade him....3 yrs left at 34 million. hamstrung

omar
is that u?
.
lol

I just wanna see us play..........cant wait till we open up preseason in the atl.....only two hours away.....fins up....i will be there

MassD, i agree 100%. A reason I was keeping my fingers crossed for a Lewan fall and trade up..

Also another reason for all their flaws either John Jerry or Bryant McKinnie should've been brought back. Neither was going to kill you playing LT in a pinch.

Albert has played an entire season how many times? Once?

I decided to follow Dashi's lead and do a roster projection for the heck of it. First guy listed is the top of the depth chart going down.

QB- Tannehill, Moore, Brock Jensen (Devlin gets beat out for the # 3 job)

RB- Moreno, Miller, Thomas, Thigpen, Damien Williams, (the UDFA Williams beats out Gillisle to make the roster)

WR- Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, Landry, Matthews, Hazel (we keep 6 WRs instead of 4 like last year. Binns is cut. Gibson recovers from the injury and holds the slot job.)

TE- Clay, Lynch, Sims, Egnew (Egnew will have to fight for a roster spot in preseason)

O-Line- Albert, Turner, Pouncey, Smith, James, Thomas, Brenner, Fox (Garner is cut. Turner wins the starting LG job.)

D-Line- Wake, Starks, Odrick, Vernon, Jordan, Mitchell, Shelby, Fede, Francis (I think the acorn Fede will turn some heads and crack the roster. Aj Francis beats out Aatui and Anthony Johnson. Starks/Odrick beat out Mitchell for the starting DT jobs)

Linebacker- Misi, Ellerbe, Wheeler, Jenkins, Tripp, Trusnik (Jenkins and Tripp are hopefully pushing Wheeler and Misi hard for playing time. Trusnik sticks for special teams)

Safety- R. Jones, Delmas, Wilson, D. Jones, Kovacs (I am praying Delmas and Reshad Jones stay health. Not much depth here. Jones plays FS, Delmas plays SS.)

Cornerback- Grimes, Finnegan, Taylor, Davis, Aikens (They go with Finnegan as the other start. Taylor goes outside and Finnegan kicks inside in 3 WR sets. Davis beats Aikens for the number 4 job.)

Specialists- Sturgis, Fields, Denney

Crap, I'm at 54 if my math is right. Logical cuts would be Kovacs, Trusnik, or just rolling with 2 QBs.

Obviously I have not seen any of training camp or preseason and we will poach a couple of guys from other rosters. Still something fun to do to kill some time.

Jethater, I was tongue in cheek about Andre - not serious.

And why is it that when we draft a slow, substandard athlete, we assume everyone else on the board at the position couldn't play football. Allen Robinson and Davonte Adams were more productive - bigger, faster, more explosive, etc. Robinson put up more yards than Landry at Penn St of all places - not exactly the home of 1000 yard WRs. Moncrief put up 900+ yards and many Tds in a Qb challenged team in Miss St.

how about this.........THERE WERE 256 PICKS IN THIS YEARS DRAFT........the national media only care about two...MANZIEL AND SAM.....so tired of hearing about both.

ARMANDO IS A SLUG! Yellow journalism with a touch of Morton Downey sprinkled in. Salguero's Modus Operandi: Career Strategy

> Go out of my way to put a negative spin on everything
> Claim that its fair and objective journalism
> Rest on my many years in the Biz to deflect critics
> Say anything inflammatory to get people talking and thereby keeping me and my name significant
> Wake up tomorrow and repeat

clee but the point was, they originally weren't in the end of the 2nd round, they were mid 2nd round where because of the depth of this draft and wr class especially, if they had just stood still, they could've got a WR that would've been the best of the entire draft just a year before.

Not a fan of what they did in the 2nd at all - but that seems to be the way with this team.

Ja'Wuan James and Billy Turner key to draft with great measurables. Both are top 10 in every important OL category. Very consistent performers.

Bench -weight room dedication and upper body strength
Ja'Wuan James 22 reps 10th best
Billy Turner 25 reps 7th best

3 cone - most crucial OL drill 1a, change of direction
Ja'Wuan James 3rd best
Billy Turner 8th best

shuttle drill - most crucial 1b for OL, change of dir.
Ja'Wuan James 3rd best
Billy Turner 7th best

Vertical jump - explosion out of stance/lower body str.
Ja'Wuan James - 4th best
Billy Turner - 6th best

Broad Jump - explosion out of stance/lower body str.
Ja'Wuan James - 6th best
Billy Turner - 3rd best

Arm length - keep defenders outside/ideal over 34"
Ja'Wuan James - 35.0
Billy Turner - 34.0

Ja'Wuan James - starting RT from day 1 for the next decade IMO. Will make the "reach" crowd eat their words.

Billy Turner - high upside to be a Pro Bowl talent at LG because of his very good athleticism.


mark.....

i wanted moncreif....loved the way he plays.
but i do believe Landry will be a good player for us.
If what they say is true....and i saw it vs my Tide many times...he blocks for rb down the field...he catches every ball thrown his way.....he is the toughest most physical wr in the draft.......why all the negativity???
ohh yeah its because he ran a slow 40. Put the pads on and run it every player runs a 4.7

The biggest reach of the draft was carolina taking benjamin in the first.....

After 50 years of living even I know that not everything or everyone for that matter is all bad or all good. This fact has thus far apparently escaped ARMANDO. I say apparently because I think he's playing all of us for chumps. He wants us to believe that there is nothing right in Dolphin-Land. Every move is questioned, every player is ripped, every coach is vilified. My answer ARMANDO...

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Live right die old

Posted by: NeMo | May 14, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Your very close if not spot on to what it will probably be when the 1st depth chart is released in Training Camp. It will be intersting to see how Coyle sees the Safety pos. and after watching Charles Davis plug the quick versatile Fede I also think he could be a sleeper! Very fast 4.77/40 for a 275 Pd DE.

Yes I was still posting away on the other blog.

Jethater @ 12:21

Bovada has Kelvin Benjamin as the favorite to win rookie of the year.

If Miami had drafted him he would be a bust.


Harris Barton, Kwame harris, Dj Fluker, and now James.

It is far from a common practice in NFL circles.

Posted by: Mark in Toronto | May 14, 2014 at 12:04 PM

I've been racking my brain since you put this up and can't recall another either?

It will be nice to stop being a team of such innovation as well!! Remember Wannstedt drafted Vernon Carey a RG/RT (Was what he played his entire College career at UM and every Canes fan on this Blog knows it!) To play LT??? I can't recall anybody doing this either??

hahha, yeah f4l, don't think anyone else did that. leave it up to Wannstedt.

people complain about Ireland but Wannstedt could only draft three players who were starters in all his drafts...

Carey, Chambers, mcMichael.

The smartest thing he ever did was trade a boat load of draft picks for Ricky because otherwise he was going to fart them away anyway....

Qb needy team selecting a nickel back over a potential starting Qb, my goodness...

Posted by: AndyNJ | May 14, 2014 at 12:19 PM

Good post.

Yes I was still posting away on the other blog.

Posted by: Dolfan Rick | May 14, 2014 at 12:26 PM

Happens to me a couple times a week!!

Is Brock Jensen the starting QB yet?

Tampa

Thanks bro

I'm Ok with the OL moves in the draft. The moves to get more picks in the later rounds could come back to hurt the Dolphins in that other than Mike Wallace the WR's are slow. I'm not sure about Landry for this team that already has slower receivers. The Dolphins really needed another guy to stretch the field. Parcells and Ireland never had quickness in their vocabulary when evaluating and drafting receivers.

Dawn must not have written down for Joe what the clear vision is for the draftees...

brock has great hair

jethater, for me its' simple. He has the worst metrics of any WR drafted in the last five years.

Had that opinion before the draft, stated it here.

Now just because he's a Dolphin, I'm supposed to think different?

Considering every team farts away 60% of their picks every year, I would feel comfortable saying we won't get anything special out of this guy either.

This has been going on for quite some time now. I thought at first that it was because Sparano was clueless, but here we are with a new coach and nothing changes. Drafting guys and not knowing where to play them? This is the NFL, not college. I always said Jerry was better at tackle, he is NOT a guard. They play him at guard. Ellerbe is a weakside LB, not a mike LB. They play him in the middle. Thomas should be a guard, not a tackle. And for the love of God, Dion Jordan should be a LB, not a DE!!!!

If we are going to see a lot of Calvin Pryor then we need "tough as nails" receivers - hence Jarvis Landry as a start.

Dion Jordan: OLB
Jordan Tripp: MLB
Donnell Ellerbe: OLB

O-line:

Brandon Albert: LT
Billy Turner: LG
Mike Pouncey: C
Shelley Smith: RG
JaWuan James: RT

DE: Cameron Wake
DT: Jared Odrick
DT: Earl Mitchell
DE: Randy Starks/Olivier Vernon

if landry gets us 800 yrds a year and 5 td....im happy

Tim in Tampa, good point. We're not going to get much physicality out of Wallace and Hartline, that's for sure.

I think Armando had a very good point in his post but it got lost with him trying to make a story out of it about projecting players to the wrong positions.

The major take away is what Shula did with Simms and Webb we need to do with James and Turner.

Get them in the line-up as soon as psossible and get them as many reps as possible before opening day.

All the time they took trying to figure out where Dallas Thomas fit last year isn't going to cut it. Nobody gets 3-5 year building plans anymore. Philbin better have a plan and execute it or he'll join the growing list of ex Fins coaches.

Thats really the only issue I have with the Turner pick. If they think he can play quard I don't have an issue.

Dol-fans may be surprised at who fills the RG spot. I have close ties to a member of the personnel dept and word Philbin is exploring the option of using Jared Odrick at RG, yes, you heard me right.

Anyone see Panthers DE Greg Hardy in the news? He has been accused of domestic violence against his girlfriend. Will he be missing team OTAs? Any sort of sensitivity training or counseling? I doubt it. That goes along with the Pats, Ravens, and 49ers incidents all offseason.

God forbid Don Jones make a tweet like that though. INSTANT SUSPENSION.

MIT you ignorant sl*t. How could you be so stupid???

Just kidding. I had to jump on the argue with MIT about Landry bandwagon.

just got back from vacation...came here to read some moronic posts from the haters out there to get my blood boiling again...

re: turner...we need a LT backup. Albert is not gonna be here for long. + hes been hurt. its a good pick, and they obviously see flexibility with him & need a LG so its win/win...

they obviously have a plan...why else draft a guy from NDSU?

I trust Hickey & their prep/interview process...not another Jeff I who only looks at metrics & stares at their amazing bodies....oooooohhhhhh

Nice work NJ - Andy!

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