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Turner played OT in college, must be G in NFL

One of the problems the Dolphins have had with player development the past few years is they don't always have a clear vision about their talent.

Just prior to this draft, the Dolphins weren't sure if they were going to use 2013 draft pick Dallas Thomas as a guard or a tackle. So a year after picking him, having him in training camp and, indeed, getting him started in this year's offseason program, last year's third-round pick didn't know his position. (He should be a guard, folks).

Dannell Ellerbe, signed to a big-money contract to play middle linebacker last year, may be moving outside this year because that work he did at MLB was no bueno.

Koa Misi was drafted as a 3-4 outside linebacker but he's been taking repetitions as a middle linebacker now -- an experiment that has been tried multiple times during his time with the team. Jared Odrick? Drafted as a 3-4 DE. Now a 4-3 DT.

Dion Jordan? Is he a defensive end? Is he an outside linebacker? What's the vision for him?

And that brings me to Billy Turner, a Dolphins third-round selection in this most recent draft.

Turner played left tackle at North Dakota State as the Bisons won three consecutive FCS (small school) championships. Some teams projected him as a right tackle prior to the draft.

The Dolphins have not said where they want him to settle in.

Here's an idea: The Dolphins should settle Turner in at guard and ...

Keep.

Him.

There.

The Dolphins drafted a right tackle in the first round in Ja'Wuan James. They signed left tackle Branden Albert to a huge contract in free agency.

They have a hole at guard.

Turner, by all accounts, has a nasty personality on the field. He plays with good (should improve) pad level. He's a guard, folks.

The Dolphins do not need him competing with fellow rookie James at RT. It's a waste of repetitions. It asks too much to have him learn both spots right now. It doesn't maximize his chances to contribute early.

If I'm the Dolphins, I do with James and Turner what Don Shula tried multiple times in the 1990s: He picked Richmond Webb to play left tackle and Keith Sims to play left guard in 1990 and that's what the two rookies did every single repetition in practice and every single down in the preseason.

Voila, offensive line issues solved.

Shula tried a similar approach in 1995. He picked Billy Milner to play right tackle and Andrew Greene to play right guard. He didn't mess with position flexibility. He had a vision for both and gave each a chance to maximize at the positions they were selected to play.

It didn't work. Greene was not a brilliant guy or a very hard worker. Bust. Milner's talent was not up to par and he was gone from the team a year later.

But the point is they failed based on their talent level rather than a lack of vision or difficult circumstances created by the team plugging them in here or there.

The Dolphins have picked offensive tackle Billy Turner this draft. Make him a guard. Stick with the conviction. Now, release the hounds.

Let Turner hunt.

 

Comments

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Darryl,

I've written similar comments based on what I've heard from other pro's as well but it falls on deaf ears here. The bloggers remain stuck on believing a player rated 22 is better than a player rated 33. Or a 4th round pick will be better than a 5th round pick.

The issue is, it is nice to have the 4th round pick than 5th because you have more options to fit your needs, doesn't there aren't equally talented players in the 5th,

Good post.

One can say there are exceptions...it always seems there is a handful of players in the top ten that are sure fire studs....but then...every draft half of them never live up to their draft position.

Fans seem to forget this every draft. GM's don't.

true bodine, very few of the players drafted every year amount to much

Andre Johnson would make us contenders IMO

dusty

A month before every draft I like to go back and look up the top 20 picks of the previous 5 drafts. It really puts things in perspective and makes you less susceptible to all the hype going around.

Shula never read off que cards when he talked to his team either!

I see all this in a slightly different way. FIRST, I wasn't real impressed with Hickey's first draft. But this isn't even close to time to pass any judgements. All we can do is give up our best OPINIONS. Still, I liked some of what Hickey did, other times I was completely baffled.

Everything in the NFL Game is predicated on winning the battles up front. The O-Line stunk at run blocking and were even worse at pass blocking. Even setting records!

This put tons of pressure on our QB and on our Defense. Without any blocking up front, NONE of the Skill Position players can be expected to produce. Not on a consistent basis anyways.

Despite the complete implosion up front, Tannehill and the D managed a .500 record and kept us in the playoff hunt right up until the end! To me, that was an awesome achievement.

As it appears right now, Hickey has rebuilt the O-Line. All save for Pouncey, the only keeper. And he did it IN LESS TIME than the Titans, in my opinion.

So, my point would be this: Have a little patience and a lot of perspective.

Juwan James and Billy Turner look like great picks to me. I have to say, even if Landry makes Offensive Rookie of the year, I still don't understand taking a WR in the 2nd of this years draft. Having said that though, Hickey keeps Pouncey and brings in Albert and Smith. The James and Turner picks are obviously meant to solidify the O-Line. And like I mention above, the O-Line was and is our biggest problem.

Tannehill and Defense managed to keep this team "In It" despite the atrocity that was our O-Line.

So, if Hickey came in, in his first year and cured our biggest problem, I say: More Power To Him! If he got us a great slot receiver or any other hidden gems along the way, that's just Gravy!

Without an O-Line we can't even pretend to pass judgements......across the board. So I believe Hickey improved this team. I think he cured "The Main Problem" and this is exactly what he should have done.

Of course, the proofs in the pudding and none of will be able to claim the "I called It" bragging rights until we see it all play out.

I'll go on record, I believe we win at least 9 AND make the playoffs. Despite having what appears to be a more difficult schedule than last year.

I bet A.Williams will have a better rookie year than C.Hyde.

..Bodine..I have been posting similar opinions since the draft ended. I just thought that it was interesting that Pete Carroll said as much.. Think about when they took Bruce Irvin's..The Seattle fans went nuts because he had like a 3rd round grade by all the experts. Seattle got hammered for that one. Now they have to trust what their FO is doing. They have a clear plan.

We may look back and James could be that guy for us..You can never know. So many people are upset because we didn't trade out of the spot. My opinion is that we had our guy..The obviously did not want to bow a chance at the guy they wanted. Who knows if he is available if we trade down. So they took him. No looking back..

Like I said..This FO has a ways to go before they gain the trust of the fan base. So I understand why some people are going to question the picks..Until we start winning, and these players contribute. It is difficult to just put it on auto pilot and trust the vision.

Top 3 needs of the off season. #1- LT, #2- RT, #3 OG. That is all Hickey had to do to win the Off season. That and Resign B.Grimes.

Señor Hickey did it, without having to Overspend on Free Agents or having to Overdraft on a Tackle in a Weak Tackle draft.

Getting a #2 RB, resigning Starks, and possibly getting the future #2 WR are bonuses.

I give Hickey a B for the off season. B- for free agency, B for the draft. B+ for Cap Management.

We are still in Position to have a good off season next year. Which is always good. After cutting M.Moore and B.Gibson the Dolphins will free up about $10M in Cap that they can use on next years cap. With only Odrick and Pouncey being the only 2 priorities.

Some interesting position battles on Offense. My picks going into training camp.

QB

Tannehill
Devlin
Jensen

RB

L.Miller
K.Moreno
D.Williams
D.Thomas

FB/H-Back

C.Clay

TE

D.Sims
M.Egnew
A.Lynch

WR

Wallace
Hartline
Landry
Matthews
Hazel

O-line

LT-Albert
LG-Turner
C-Pouncey
RG-D.Thomas
RT-J.Jones
S.Smith
S.Brenner
J.Fox

DE

Vernon
Wake
Jordan
Shelby
Fede

DT

Odrick
Starks
E.Mitchell
Francis

OLB

Misi
Wheeler
Tripp
Edwards

MLB

Ellerbe
Jenkins
D.Johnson
Thompson

CB

B.Grimes
J.Taylor
C.Finnegan
W.Davis
W.Aikens

FS

D.Jones
L.Delmas

SS

R.Jones
J.Wilson

K

TBA

P

B.Fields

Bodine my problem with the "reach" scenario was not that the players they selected wouldn't live up to their draft grade but more that we could have accumulated more picks. Having more chances at picking your guys is important.

I understand it's not an exact science but there were opportunities to accumulate more picks. As to whether James is a "first round talent" I guess that's a measurement that is different for different evaluators.

Unfortunately DD this draft was heavy on the "need" side and less in the future part. Drafting for need means you leave a lot of talented players maybe exceptionally talented on the board because you must address a position in the draft.

Darryl,

Only about a week ago PFT interviewed Chip Kelly, and he flat out said...not quoting him...but...you just don't know and can't know how any player will perform in the NFL. You do your homework, do the best you can, but it is a crapshoot in the end. There is no magic formula.

Maybe once in awhile a GM stands out as having the knack for it, but more often than not, a GM has a good couple of drafts at just the right time and that carries him.

dashi u couldnt even answer the easiest one with kicker

Darkoak, then you missed my point entirely. First round talent is not decided by the media mocks. If you stacked every teams board side by side they would be quite different.

Maybe Hickey was conservative, but I can't blame him for being responsible. He saw James as the best RT left and snagged him while he could.

It is easy to play the stock market with paper money, a bit different with your own coin on the line.

I know Devlin is not a fan favorite like Matt "MVP" Moore. But over the past 2 off seasons Devlin has been the better QB over the past 2 years. And we are paying to much for a backup.

If, Tannehill gets injured. Which he won't. Specially with a better O-line. And Devlin has been to be real bad. The worst that could happen is we have a Top 5 pick next year, and Tannehill coming back from injury.

And L.Miller is a better RB than K.Moreno. D.Williams is a better RB than K.Moreno. With a new improved O-line we will see the real L.Miller. And hopefully Lazor doesn't go away from the run in the second half when it is working in the first. And we finally have the OGs to run Screens and Sweeps. Not Ben & Jerry.

I really like that pickup. D.Williams is a "Value" Acorn, and whatever else you want to call him D.Williams is built like a RB and runs like a RB. He automatically makes Thigpen and Gillislee expendable.

No Bodine I actually identified your point as valid and said that everyone has a different interpretation of first round talent. I agreed with you but identified that if Hickey had judges the other teams needs and wants a little bit better could have secured a couple more picks and got his guys.

I believe anyone off the street is better than Wide Left.

Sturgis cost us 2 games last year. Even in college Sturgis missed field goals in key moments. He is a good place kicker. But I bet if they wanted B.Fields will be a better place kicker. I bet Fields will always kick a touchback.

We need a consistent Kicker. I couldn't care less if he can't kick a 60yd field goal. As long as he is automatic inside 50.

Kelvin Benjamin is a good example.

With Benjamin coming off the board where he did, you never really know where James(or anyone else)might go.

I know Devlin is not a fan favorite like Matt "MVP" Moore. But over the past 2 off seasons Devlin has been the better QB over the past 2 years.
Posted by: Dashi | May 14, 2014 at 08:40 PM

What the heck is this based on???? Certainly no first hand information.


Devlin has had 3 years to rise from #3 and he couldn't!!!

He is likely to be gone by opening day and may not get another chance. Try getting in touch with reality instead of confusing it with your fantasy world.

Posted by: odinseye | May 14, 2014 at 08:47 PM

If you understand your opponents then you can anticipate what they need. I would expect Hickey and his team to do live mocks internally leading up to the draft. It's pretty common in business to do live test drives of processes, or dry runs.

Hmm maybe I will fire in that resume lol. I would have the most ridiculous scouting department if I was GM. I'd scout all games, coaches, the works. Send spies into clubs to check out players, everything. Lol

Two completely different coaching staffs had Devlin rated #3, yet Dashi knows better???

Based on what exactly? Tarot cards?

Puhlease.

He is likely to be gone by opening day and may not get another chance. Try getting in touch with reality instead of confusing it with your fantasy world.

Posted by: Miso | May 14, 2014 at 08:50 PM
=========================================

Way to supplant Dashi's opinion with.......with.......well.........YOUR OWN......OPINION!

Ah Ha Ha! Ah Ha Ha! Ah Ha Ha!!!!

Look at SFs Draft! Carlos Hyde, Marcus Martin, Chris Borland, Brando Thomas(even if hurt), Bruce Ellington. Wow! That's the way I would have gone.

Darkoak,

I really can't speak for Hickey. I can only guess that he liked the guy enough he didn't want to risk losing him. Nobody can really say how long he would have lasted. Add to that the FA market isn't exactly swimming with RT, he took care of a need early.

Even Polian pre-draft said he needed to take care of the line top priority. You can fault him for being conservative, but to me he was just being responsible.

That's all.

..Dashi..I lost the bet we made..Here to pay the Piper.

I didn't think about the teams passing on the distraction of Mike Sam..That and his game may not translate to this level..Anyway. I was wrong. You won the bet.

Posted by: Bodine | May 14, 2014 at 08:56 PM

True, I guess we all will see soon where this direction is leading us.

But, but, all these picks are on paper now. The probabilities indicate that SF draft was better than ours was, but those rookies still have to play it out.

odinseye,

It is not my opinion that two completely different coaching staffs saw Devlin as a 3rd stringer.

Dat dere be a FACT!

I'll take the opinion of coaches with decades of experience and personal knowledge of the players performance over a blogger who bases his (her) opinions based on imaginary fluff.

Not even your Ha Ha Ha's can change that ;)

..Bodine..Yeah, Jeff Ireland was on the Herd a few days ago. Did you know from 2010(The year Ireland really took control) until last year. The Phins had the most drafted players on Pro rosters. Now not all of these players are good ones. But that is impressive none the less. Ireland said half joking..If you can hit on 50 percent of your picks over your career..You will go to the GM hall of fame.

Ireland was super complimentary of the players, owner of the Phins. Cowherd kept asking questions that Ireland could have ripped the franchise. You could tell by the tone, and the questions that Cowhed would have loved it if Ireland would have gone off on his old team..He didn't. He took the blame for failing to win enough. Plain and simple.I just wasn't good enough.

I thought it was really standup..

Who is SFs GM? Bring him here.(he probably will fail miserably here)

..Trent Balke...

...The Clamaker.....# 89 top 100...Well done

I heard that Darryl. It does show some character

Dark - yeah, that is all I'm saying...their value can't be determined until they've played 2 or 3 seasons.

I see an **IMPROVED(not great, not awesome, IMPROVED)** O-Line helping our Skill position players and Defense exponentially!

I see our Defense being better because our O-Line is.

I see our QB play being better because our O-Line is.

I see our play calling being better because our O-Line is.

In all honesty, I don't know how an improved O-Line doesn't help EXPONENTIALLY!

Then again, curses are funny that way.........

I have Class. I am a Contender. I shoulda been a GM.

WHY ARE 4 TOP STORIES ON ESPN ABOUT

Michael Sam?

Johnny Football must be pissed at the lack of attention.

I'll take the opinion of coaches with decades of experience and personal knowledge of the players performance over a blogger who bases his (her) opinions based on imaginary fluff.

Not even your Ha Ha Ha's can change that ;)

Posted by: Miso | May 14, 2014 at 09:02 PM
=========================================

Yeah Miso, except(being totally serious)Philbin has a total boner for Devlin. He also outplayed Moore in Pre-Season, if I remember correctly.

You and Dashi's little back and forth aside, I would **ALMOST** take Devlin over Moore at this point in their careers. I say **ALMOST** because I haven't seen enough of Devlin to really make that sweeping statement.

Devlin's been a winner and Moore, he just seems happy to be going along for the ride.

I will say this, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Devlin outplay Moore this pre-season.

ohnny Football must be pissed at the lack of attention.

Posted by: ExposingTheFraud | May 14, 2014 at 09:18 PM

Kinda like you with your Lincoln, Cadillac, SMF, Sparrow, Back Door and other troll names,

odin @ 8:18

I agree Albert and Moreno were strong signings.
But I don't know if James or Billy are better than Garner. And I don't know if there even as good as Dallas let alone the 2 career backups Fox & Smith.

Personally I think Hickey screwed Philbin and I think he did it on purpose.

I want the team to do well also but I just don't see it with these moves.

WHY ARE 4 TOP STORIES ON ESPN ABOUT

Michael Sam?

Johnny Football must be pissed at the lack of attention.

Posted by: ExposingTheFraud | May 14, 2014 at 09:18 PM
====================================================

Maybe Johnny should ask Michael out on a date.........Huh?

You know, ESPN is ALL about Man-Love these days.......

Odinseye

Devlin has ZERO wins and has never been a starter. Moore has started on two teams and did quite well for us when Henne went down.

The knock on Devlin is that he has a weak arm. Accurate, but not an NFL arm. That might be why he went undrafted? Let's face it, the odds of UDFA QB's becoming quality starters are pretty dang slim, only a few out of many have done it...and they didn't have weak arms.

Devlin might be a candidate for the HOF of practice squad players, nothing more.

A CHILD ASKED ME: ARE ALL MEN GAY OR JUST THE

Football players?

Eric Stokes? Lookout Hicks!

Nahhh, Matt Moore will remain as Tannehill's backup.

I rooted for Garner forever. I thought he would actually, eventually have his breakout year too. It never materialized. The one thing you can say for him, he's a real solid, prototypical, Career back up.

You can never know until the pads come on. But just watch James, Turner and Garner on video.

Garner is way to stiff and even after all this time in the big leagues, he still gets his pad level way to high and way too often. His strength is in being a mauler. In my mind, he's now a bad scheme fit as well.

You never know, but the one thing I can say for sure, James and Turner are BOTH twice the athletes than Garner. Top to Bottom!

WORLD CHAMPION HEAT BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Miso,

I was never talking about Devlin as the starter.

I was considering him as the challenger to Moore.

Also, Devlin never had an NFL start, so obviously no wins. I called him a winner because he has been one since High School and throughout his collegiate years.

The arm strength issue may be true. I haven't seen enough of him to make that call myself. Having said that, I have never been all that impressed with Moore's arm strength.

I really have no dogs in the fight when it comes to Devlin or Moore. I would just like to have some talent back there that might actually challenge or push Tannehill should he stumble.

You know....?

Garner's best position seems to be C.

Odinseye,

I'd like a backup that can take over and lead the team...ala Earl Morrall and Don Strock. I don't think Moore or Devlin fit the bill.

"You can never know until the pads come on. But just watch James, Turner and Garner on video."
-odinseye

I watched the tape.
I did not see James or Injun playing against NFL defenders.
I did not see Garner playing against North Dakota A&M's opponents either.
The tape did me no good.

GARNER IS A SOLID BACKUP.

If you start him the whole year some of his numbers would be middle of the pack, nothing wrong with that.

But my point is rookie linemen not named Jake Long or Jake Matthews get abused/tricked by defenders. If you have 2 rookies on the OL then it is that much more precarious for Tanne.

The Dolphins still stink but I do have good news. HEAT WIN!!!!! HEAT WIN!!!!!

If Tannehill gets hurt we'll improve with Moore at the helm just like when Henne got hurt.

Don't bring in the Pacers, bring in somebody else..

I watched the tape.
I did not see James or Injun playing against NFL defenders.
I did not see Garner playing against North Dakota A&M's opponents either.
The tape did me no good.

Posted by: ExposingTheFraud | May 14, 2014 at 09:54 PM
=====================================================

I said watch the video in regards to their athleticism. James looks atletic........Turner looks exceptionally athletic.

Garner........? Garner looks like Herman Munsters Twin Brother!!!!

C'Mon Man!!!!

Guys,

In most drafts unless your talking about a QB usually the BA players from FBS,FCS & Div-1AA tend to start coming off the Boards around the 3rd Rd which we've seen in the past with Liberty, Troy ect...

This Yrs. draft Crop was so deep I'll bet going into as late as Rd-5 everybody here knew most of the players available on the boards. I say this because even with all my hardcore Fandome I usually lose interest in a draft after the 4th Rd were I hae little clue who more than 50% are. This Yr. was a different story whether hype or not based on potential this was the deepest draft I have ever winessed!

I think (It's just what I deducted) that we made a run on the FCS Programs rounding out our draft because I'd bet Hickey had those players rated a bit higher than were they landed for him. It's risky because I can't recall a draft were I can remember so many Div-1AA Kids going in one shot to a specific team.

I did however see Jordan Tripp graded in most spots as a likely 3rd rd'er as well as Billy Turner were after watching him on film and seeing his natural physical ability the only reason I can come up with were he's rated behind a potential 1st Rd graded Morgan Moses has everything to do with level of College Comp and nothing to do with ability straight up!

My one hang up with this Crop of picks is missing on 2 POTENTIAL breakout RB's from the FCS that we had to have scouted seeing the emphasis we placed on the Champoinship (FCS) and Bowl(FBS)Conferences allowing the rest of the League to feast on the Div-1A guys. Those RB's being T.West in Rd-3 (Who I believe is a breakout STAR!) and Lorenzo Taliaferra in Rd-4 were we took a DB having a deep group already on the roster while later taking a WR out of the same program at Coastal Carolina.

I just hope I don't have to sit through games in the future watching these 2 in Clev and Balt. repectively having stellar careers! Outside that like odin said to early and will wait out the Yr. before passing judgement. If you add our Top-3 picks from 2013 to this group were we gave them a Red-Shirt last Yr. then it puts it over the Top on potential for me!

Does not bode well for Hickey selecting all those small school Players, f4l. They brought in Terrance then they passed him up. ????

want to get excited about Billy Turner? worried about his level of competition? then check out North Dakota State vs Kansas State 2013 on YouTube... (the Cats put a whoopin' on UM 2 years ago for those who think KSU is a pushover). The first two series are all you'll need to see to understand the type of player he is. Billy had awesome second and third effort ... plays thru the whistle ... he's going to be a fine lineman ...

Watching Ja'Wuan James is another story ... I'm still searching for a game where he showed something special .... he consistently makes an initial hit and then stands around and watches the rest of the play ... rarely an effort to find work ... he's going to have to get with it, or he'll be replaced .... I can't believe the staff watched the same guy I watched ... and used their #1 on him ...

I hope I'm wrong ....

.

fin4life


YAWN.....

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