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McKeon: "It's getting embarrassing"

        SAN DIEGO -- The mighty San Diego Padres splattered the Marlins 14-1 last night, after which Jack McKeon sat at his desk looking like a man who would rather be sitting at home in Elon, N.C., with his beloved dog Yogi than this team of mutts.

        "It's getting embarrassing," McKeon said.

        Yes it is. The Padres are not a good team, and yet the Marlins make them look like the Phillies or Red Sox. The Pads are 6-0 against the Fish this season and will be aiming for a series sweep later this afternoon at Petco Park. If it occurs, it will be the third four-game series sweep this season against the Marlins.

         Nick Hundley had as many hits last night -- four -- as did the entire Marlins lineup. Aaron Harang, who gave up 31 hits and eight walks in his previous three outings, held the Marlins to a run on three hits and five walks over six last night.

         The Marlins have lost 14 of their past 16 games. They are 12 games under .500 for the first time this season. The 13-run difference last night was the largest losing margin of the season. After starter Clay Hensley gave up four runs in the first last night -- all coming with two outs -- the avalanche didn't stop. The Padres, one of the worst hitting clubs in the majors, have scored in the first inning of every game they've played against the Marlins.

      "This club's not a very good hitting club," McKeon said of the Padres. "(But) they kick the hell out of us every time we see 'em. We just can't keep putting crooked numbers up the first and second inning of every game. I don't know what we can do about it. We got what we got. That's it."

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Stan M

Some random thoughts:
Until recently I watched every pitch of every Marlin game. A few days ago I changed to reading with the game in the background with sound off unless something critical happened or Stanton was up. I haven't even bothered to have game on at all for last 3 games. What does that say?

Posts on this blog have decreased dramatically. What does that say?

New team propaganda seems to be "we are shorthanded and that is why we're losing.

If we are so shorthanded, why was Coghlan not brought up after his rehab stint?

A few days ago, someone (I think it was LB) remarked about the pitching coach. It's becoming obvious that both pitching and hitting coaches simply have to be replaced.

Unfortunately, the McKeon bubble has burst and it is also becoming apparent that a new manager, in fact an entirely new dugout approach, will be needed for this team to show any improvement. There is something wrong with the whole team chemistry. I don't think these players are "happy".

At least I'm still reading about the Marlins but wonder how much longer that will last. Stating to follow KC which is full of really young kids.

If I feel this way, and it seems that many of you are also starting to drift away, what does that say about the more casual fan and next year...I think enthusiasm for new ballpark has taken what could be an unrecoverable hit.

Personally, I'm happy for Dan Uggla, a guy who always gave the Marlins his all.

Mike Kucharski

The Royals may have some young talent but they will never field a winning ballclub because they always trade them away (sounds familiar, although we have started locking up some of our talent). Look how Greinke's doing in Milwaukee and I think KC even still had him under contract for 3 - 4 seasons.

laurelbowie

Stan M,
I agree. The Marlins are going to clean house the minute this season is over, bringing in a new manager and dumping the entire coaching staff, with the possible exception of Perry Hill.
Interestingly, Tommy Hutton mentioned last night that there are still 30-some games left in this season and the guys on the field should play out those games like their future in the Big Leagues depends on it, because in a some cases that could be true. Guys like Petersen and Lopez are making a good run at staying around while others clearly are not.
And the FO should be doing everything it can to help this team win right now, because they can still end the season close to .500 (not likely, but mathematically possible), which would look a lot better than finishing 20 games under going into next season as they try to sell tickets to their fancy new ballpark. Seems like they are trying to make a point with Coghlan and LoMo, but if the Fish are going to win even a few more games this year, they have to bring those guys back and forget the schoolboy wrist-slapping.
Managers always talk about building a "winning culture" on a team, but the Marlins seem hellbent on doing just the opposite.
Sadly, before last night's game, I came very close to getting on here and predicting a Marlins victory. Don't tell anybody.

Stan M

I'd also keep the 3B coach. Reading between the lines, and consiidering his comments, I think McKeon had at least some input in farming LoMo out. This is in direct contrast to how he treated Hanley.

A couple of days ago we discussed a possible addition that would have helped the team both on the field and in the dugout. Never mentioned him, and I realize it's not going to happen, but Thome should have been at the top of our lists. What an addition he would make for next year and if they don't do something drastic, I doubt if they'll even draw next year after the first month or two. This team is in serious trouble and much of it has been caused by factors other than the players themselves.

Samsons Boyfriend

What good would it do to bring back Cogs and Lomo..they're poor hitting,which got them sent down,was part of the problem. Marlins over-estimated the talent on this team and are left with what they have.A last place team. Gaby has also has hit poorly after the All-Star break and his ability to produce over a full season is in question. The FO severly misjudged the roster on this team and will continue to lose in the future ,unless they dramatically change their thinking..

Todd C

I am so disillusioned with this team. Like Stan M., I have the TV on but only pay attention when Stanton is at bat or the Marlins have runners in scoring position. I was a big fan of Lomo and felt he was becoming the face of the franchise. When the owner and his son-in-law sent him to triple A as punishment, I actually felt like I was being punished. I have been a Marlins fan since 1993 and watch every televised game. I also attend a few games a year. I am not sure whether I will remain a Marlins fan after this year. I am checking out my options. Some of the things this organization has done are unforgivable. For example: 1. Leting Cody Ross leave on Waivers for nothing in return. 2. Trading Dan Uggla for spare parts within their own division. 3. Trading Miguel Cabrera with nothing to show in return. Let's see what they do in the off-season. But I really don't expect much. I am really sick of Beinfest and the rest of the bunch.

rbleigh

And to add to Stan's comments:

Loria still expects this team to compete for a WS Title next year and Sampson will do his best to sell it. Does that guy ever answer a direct question?

The team's farm system is a mess with MLB ready players, we draft a HS kid with the top pick and fail to sign the no. 3 and no. 4 picks. I cringe.

laurelbowie

Gaby CAN hit. LoMo CAN hit. Coghlan CAN hit. Hanley CAN hit. The fact that none of them IS hitting worth a sheet shows there is something desperately wrong somewhere.
I've chosen a different solution to watching the games on TV. I record them, then check back on Gameday every few innings to see if there is anything I want to see. If anything looks interesting, I'll watch that play or that half inning, then flip the set off again. I've found I can read at least one extra book a week that way.

Samsons Boyfriend

Compare the rosters of the Phillies and Braves to the Marlins. That alone should tell anybody that knows MLB,that the Marlins wont ever sniff the play-offs with the players they have now.

Samsons Boyfriend

Hitting in April and May does not mean anything. The fact is that Gaby ,Lomo and Cogs are all hitting close to .200 with RISP for the season...Gaby's hitting fell off a cliff after the All-Star game. Hanley is the only player with good #s,but cant stay on the field anymore due to poor physical condition/injuries. How does anybody expect this team to contend in September when these guys cant even contend thru June???

Samsons Boyfriend

Besides the hitting .the Marlins starting pitchers will never be consistant winners throughout a 162 games season. Not one of them. Marlins have to go back to the drawing board and overhaul the WHOLE roster ,leaving the bullpen,which is the best part of team now,for last.This is a BAD Team.

Flav C

Sam's BF, the worst part is that going to the drawing board and overhauling the whole roster means....2-3 more seasons out of contention. Maybe a bit more. But if that means building a competitive team for years to come, that would be the best solution. Agree 100% with you.

Samsons Boyfriend

Flav C...Marlins will be out of contention for the next several years anyway with the current roster. If they wait for their young players to come around to be consistant producers,they'll be waiting till Hell freezes over.Marlins have to get in the game by raising the payroll next season to at least 80 million by signing proven Big League producers,and not having a roster of unproven wannbe's.The only player that's a keeper is Stanton. The rest should be made available to trade if it upgrades the team. Next season with the new stadium is put up or shut up time.Guessing the Marlins will keep their hands in their pockets and be content with mediocrity as Loria likes to make money ,but not spend it on the field.Better get used to more of the same with this group.

spitballer

I agree with some of Sam's BF statments...but this team was not that bad the last 2 seasons. The problem which has been stated many times is the lack of talent in the FO. Beinfest, Hill, Samson & the whole scouting department have totally droped the ball with this team. I'm certain if they were with another club, they all would have been fired. The media needs to go after the FO with some hard questions as to why they have failed.

Samsons Boyfriend

The local media wont ask the hard questions as they are ass-kissers that wont bite the hand that feeds them. If this was NY or Boston Loria,Samson and Beinfest would have been held accountable by now for all the bad moves they've made over the past 6 years.Samson and Beinfest are best at dodging questions,giving vague answers and changing the subject when asked a question that requires a forthright answer.The local media just nods its head like a Dog,and goes along with the Baloney they've been fed.

Samsons Boyfriend

This was a different team 2 seasons ago,the last winning season.

Roger S

This team really isn't as far away as most of you are putting on. All they need is a new starting rotation and around 6-7 new position players. There, answer solved. I see no reason to believe that they can't win 70 games next year. Give them some credit, geez.

Samsons Boyfriend

Right now the only credit the Marlins deserve is drafting Stanton in the 2nd round after all the other teams had a crack at him, and not trading him in the rumored Manny deal 2 or 3 years ago.Also give them credit for flim-flamming Miami for the new stadium.

Stan M

Jason Stark was asked on the ESPN web chat whom he would choose to build a franchise around. He picked Stanton! WOW!

Samson, this is once where I must differ with your player evaluations. I'm with you and everyone else about the FO.

As stated above, this is not a "happy" team. Whether it be bad karma from the FO, Hanley's antics and McKeon's treatment of him, the miserable condition of the home field, poor fan enthusiasm, or changes in the coaching staff, something isn't right. We all read or heard Cody's feelings about getting on the road. When evaluating this team, please remember they consistently win on the road.

Bill James, who taught us all more about player evaluation than anyone else, perhaps in history, emphatically states that if a player shows a skill, then it's going to be part of his makeup forever. Coghlan has hit well in the past, undoubtedly played hurt this year, yet had 33 runs and 20 doubles (that might have been leading the league) in about 2/5 of a season. LoMo came to the majors with a deserved reputation as an excellent judge of the strike zone. He hit very well until the past 2 months and now swings at anything. He even led the league in RBIs last month while not hitting particularly well. Gabby has shown that he can hit for an acceptable average and drives in runs at an above average pace. Personally, I think they ran him into the ground. A team can compete with him at 1B and Coghlan and LoMo in the OF.

I do agree with you that the Braves are a superior team. However, nearly all of the Phillies are already in middle age in baseball years. Washington is a future competitor in 2-3 years, but by then we'll have the two kids I talked about yesterday.

We can't beat the Braves for 1st place, but can compete for the Wild Card and finish no lower than 3rd for years to come. Retooling this whole team would be a mistake. Yes to the FO, but it ain't happenin, so the solution is pitching and one positive veteran presence in the dugout who needent even be a regular. Resigning Vazquez is a must and then a very competent lefthanded started...but he's got to be good, really good.

Samsons Boyfriend

Stan.. The only thing that Gaby,Lomo and Cogs have proven so far is they cant produce at a consistently productive level over a full season yet.If you look at their numbers ,they all are sub -par. All the excuses doesnt change what these three have been to date and nobody can be sure what they will do in the future. Wouldnt gamble that any of these guys will be even a .300 hitter over a full season.You can have them if you like but I'd get rid of all of them for a sure thing.Go to the Marlins MLB website under stats and look at their splits..pretty dismal

Stan M

Let'scompare our lineup and show me where there is an improvement that whould make a huge change:
Bono...for two months has demonstrated that there are few better leadoff men in baseball.
Coghlan...when healthy has demonstrated that he hits for average and his stroke is perfect for the new park.
LoMO...everyone speaks highly of him. A Keith Hernandez but with more power and also perfect for the new ballpark's capacious outfield.
Stanton...Jason Stark said it all
Hanley...As Bill James says, "If the skill is there, etc." Switch with LoMo by who pitches.
Gabby...at this spot, one of best #6 hitters in league
Infante...really came on strong and with his fielding, is a huge plus in the lineup
Buck...no comment except that he is an average #8 hitter. I'd start Hayes if given the chance.

Now try to replace one of those guys with Loria's known parsimony. You can't count the obvious catcher's spot because he has 2 years remaining on his contract at enormour expense for this team. Yes, it's got to be in pitching where the team's limited money must be spent. That's my opinion anyway.

Stan M

Samson, our posts crossed timewise. I'm sorry, but in two of your examples, you are obviously in error. You state that they can't consistently produce over a full season. Completely untrue. Coghlan did in his rookie year and so did Gabby last year. That is proven and beyond refute. I agree that LoMo hasn't had a full season, but I haven't heard or read of a single evaluation of him (except yours) that doesn't predict a fine career as an excellent hitter. I'm sorry to have to disagree, but you are just wrong in 2/3 of your facts and I think in your entire opinion of these 3 players.

That doesn't mean that I don't usually agree completely with most of what you say. But here you are dead wrong!

spitballer

This is a little off topic....IMO...Hanley is faking his injury to get back at the FO. He had his feelings hurt when "Niner" called him out. I seriously doubt he will return this season.

Samsons Boyfriend

All three have just average numbers for their careers so far.Cogs had 2 great months 2 yrs ago ,thats it.Gaby faded down the stretch last year to hit .273 and 19hr's and thats where he's gonna be this year.Big deal,when you look at other 1st basemen like Pujols,Prince,and Howard. Lomo at.262 and Cogs at.283 havnt adjusted to the league adjusting to them,thats why they got sent down. I'll bet you one of these three if not two,will be gone by Opening Day.

Stan M

You didn't say careers. You were talking about one year. Of course Gabby isn't on the same level as your three examples, nor did I say he was. What I said was the team can compete with him at 1B. In 2 years Yelich will probably replace him and he will become a good trading chip. For now, he is all we have and Loria won't spend for Fielder. In point of fact, it would be just the type of move to change this team's miserable countenance. What a great idea! But it ain't happenin. I think LOMo could be traded for about 3/4 to 4/5 of the position players in the major leagues right now! As you say, Gabby also faded last year. Again, they never rested the guy. I come back to the overall spirit of this ballclub right now. Something is wrong and talent is the result, not the cause. As LB and I said above, the team needs a new outlook and it must start with a manager and 2 or 3 new coaches; definitely in pitching and hitting.

Samsons Boyfriend

Gaby's a good trading chip now at 28 in Sept. Move Lomo to first,he'll never be a good outfielder,Cogs in CF,Petey in LF.

Stan M

Sam, I wouldn't be against that move...if Peterson continues to produce. I really wish you were one of our occasional nut cases. I don't lke to disagree with someone whom I respect . Here are a couple of examples to consider. Heywood was considered the 4th person of the blessed trinity. Yet he hasn't had a good career yet either. In fact, until his recent slump, I think the Marlins would have hung up first if the Braves proposed an even up swap. Justin Upton was supposedly trade bait last Winter. Now he's up for a possible MVP. LoMo is a 23 YO kid who recently lost his father and was probably too vocal in an unsettling clubhouse. Give him the same chance that Upton got and Hanley seems to be getting. I hope our disagreement stems from your utter frustration with the team's performance and there we could agree all night. My worry about Coghlan isn't with his talent, it's with his cockiness. To complete your thought, the best plan I can think of would be to sign Fielder, use Gabby and Nunez in a 3 team trade to acquire Buerhle (or a like talented LH pitcher)from the White Sox; resign Vazquez; replace the pitching and hitting coaches and get a manager with superior "people skills". Could we agree on that and that the first suggestion ain't goin to happen. But, you know, they almost have to do something that drastic. Congress probably has a higher approval rating than the Marlins right now.

Samsons Boyfriend

Dont know what the answer is right now,but will agree that something drastic will be done to change the complexion of this team,roster wise.Ill leave it at that for now...Later Stan.

Glags

I enjoyed reading all these comments. I won't add anything because it'll be redundant. I haven't been watching any of the games for about two weeks just watching highlights, if you can call them that. Instead I've been preparing for back to school and hitting the field with my six year old. Interestingly enough at six my son says he'd rather play for the Yankees or Red Sox. I told him no son of mine will ever be a Yankee.

Dragonfly13

It was embarrassing when the McKeon/GM optioned L. Morrison back to New Orleans. If I were Lo Mo, I think Id ask for my release. The Marlins front office wouldnt know a baseball form a chicken egg. Both being round and white. The entire Marlin management is a total disaster. Whos running this dog and pony show, Larry, Curley, and Mo?

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