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Front office execs summoned to Miami to discuss fading Marlins

     At least three top roving baseball executives for the Marlins have been summoned to Miami for a meeting, presumably to talk about what can be done to reverse the team's June nosedive, which is now nearing terminal velocity. The Marlins have lost 17 of their past 20 games, plummeting from a first-place tie in the National League East on June 3 to sole possession of last, nine games out.

     While one source said the meeting is common practice as the season approaches the halfway point, another said it is anything but as the front office scrambles for solutions to end the skid. They'll also discuss what direction to take in advance of the July 31 non-waiver trading deadline. Arriving to South Florida for the meeting, which was scheduled for today, are assistant general manager Dan Jennings, vice president of player development Marty Scott and senior advisor to player personnel Orrin Freeman.

     They are expected to meet with the Miami-based front office contingent of club president David Samson, president of baseball operations Larry Beinfest and general manager Michael Hill -- among others -- to discuss the team's rapidly deterioriating prospects. Owner Jeffrey Loria is not in Miami but could participate via conference call.

     After losing to the Cardinals on Tuesday, the Marlins -- a team most picked to contend for at least a wild card playoff spot after spending lavishly on free agents over the winter -- dropped to six games below .500 for the first time since they were 8-14.

     The Marlins have been outscored 144-74 this month, producing an overall negative run differential on the season of minus 68. Only the lowly Twins (-88) and Padres (-79) rank lower. The Marlins and Royals are the only two teams in the majors that have yet to score as many as 10 runs in a game. Yet the Marlins have given up 10 or more runs seven times.

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BraMan

LoMo, Gaby, Buck, Bell, Hanley, all kick rocks. The Marlins always had some of baseball top prosepects in the farm system, now we dont even have that. Its going to bea struggle for the rest of the year.

dre

LOL the Marlins front office is a joke. Only people they can fool is the clowns running the city buying them stadiums.

flagstafffishfan

I have an idea....fire these "front office executives"!! They have assembled a cast of losers that clearly don't even like each other. Hell Loria you have them all in one office. Do the Trump thing and fire them all cuz man they have helped lead this team and your franchise right into the basement where their gonna stay for years the way that our farm system looks. FO grade = F.

Prof. Hal

The Yankees (I have been a fan since I was an ardent eight and half year old back in Queens in 1960.) always made trades when they were floundering, as the Fish are right now. The Yankees picked up Roger Maris for surplus talent in 1959 and Graig Nettles that way in the early '70s.The Marlins need a trade to shake things up. They have surplus talent - Gabby Sanchez can be traded. Chris Coglan, Peterson, Cousins, maybe Chad James down on the farm. Sean West, anyone?
They need a pitcher and a hitter. They just don't have enough right now. They could bring up Wade LeBlanc who had a solid spring but didn't make the team.
Anyway, a shakeup is needed here.

BraMan

Prof, all thoughs player you just named as possible trade bail SUCKS, you couldnt get peanuts for the has-beens.

Carlos

Lets keep Eduardo Perez as the batting coach he is doing a great job!!!! Why cant the front office see that this guys SUCKS as a batting coach

Stan M

I did a little basic math, something which is not my strong suit by any means. The results are not good and anyone who thinks that there is still plenty of time should look at these numbers.

If Washington continues at about its present pace, with 90 games to go, they should go 50-40. If they do, the Marlins would have to go 58-32 to tie them or 26 games above .500. By comparison, the Yankees, with the best record in baseball, are only 17 games above .500.

If Wash. dropped to 45-45, the Marlins would have to go 53-37 to tie, or 16 games above .500. If Wash went 40-50, the Marlins would still have to go 48-42. And if Wash did take such a nosedive, one of the other 3 teams above the Marlins would probably be on some sort of push for Wash to fare so poorly. Remember, there are 4 teams that the Marlins would have to climb over.

There is still a remote chance that they could finish with a wild card placement, but there are currently 7 NL teams above them and they are 5.5 games out there.

The worst news, as is pointed out in the article above, is that when one considers how many runs the Marlins have scored, vs. how many runs they have allowed, they have the 3rd worse performance in all of baseball; 27 teams did better.

Realistically, this team is no longer in contention. The frightening thought is the type of selloff that is in our future. Something drastic can, and probably should, be expected. Nearly all of our front line players are at an all time low in value. It would not surprise me if Hanley and Infante are both traded, and I fear that Anabel Sanchez could also be a goner for he will be a Free Agent. Then what, fellow posters, then what? The best solution would be to make a very significant buy, but when has this team sought the best solution while under Loria's ownership.

And I still find the attendance figures puzzling. If they are being fudged, our overall future is indeed bleak!

Flav C

Stan,
Considering the remainder of their schedules, games at home, intra NL East games, and strength of schedule (for the Marlins and close playoff contenders), a statistical scenario for the Marlins is:

W L % of chance

50 38 4.1
51 37 12.4
52 36 31.9
53 35 55
54 34 68.5
55 33 84.4
56 32 89.5
57 31 90.9
58 30 Playoffs

Statistically speaking, yes, the chances are there.
Realistically speaking, highly unlikely.

flagstafffishfan

Nice work with the numbers boys! Stan I would imagine that Hanley, Infante and Anibel are the biggest pieces that can be moved. You know that some "Front Office Executive" will take a chance with Hammering Hanley so there's the possibility of loading up on young talent. I would think that the Marlins would also have to go after a BIG name but who? Who's out there? Wish list Greinke, Hammels, Chase Headley, Upton? Loria may have to throw in one of his fine works of art to get any deals done with our chips that we have. Sad time for this franchise. It's all over 6/27/12 and the season is over.....

Glags

I say sell. Unfortunately outside of JJ and Stanton I can't think of anyone on this current roster that would bring back valuable prospects to replenish this organization. It's been said many times by different posters that the young guys are at least two years away. Sell and hope you can get guys that will come up along with the Yelichs and Fernandez'. By then I hope Stanton is what everyone thinks he'll be and the young guys can come in and compliment him.

The flip side of this proposition is do we trust the FO to trade for the right pieces. I don't.

Peter Gammons Dog

Blow up this roster ,they are losers. A new broom sweeps clean..

laurelbowie

This being the first year with the new ballpark, I think the FO will feel compelled to do something to try to salvage this season. They're only filling about half the seats now. A couple of "rebuilding" years and that fancy new park will be a mausoleum. And then there won't be a nickel spent on payroll.
I'm with you guys — I don't see much chance of making the playoffs. But lassoing a big name might help breathe a little life into the situation.

rbleigh

Unfortunately I do not think Stanton is in Cabrera's stratosphere despite the way "chicks dig the long ball."

I've lost almost all hope in this team making the playoffs, there is just too many holes in their overall game. My hope now is that Sanchez pitches great in his next few starts and he'll be the team's best bargaining chip to improve future prospects. Of course the team could have made that trade last June as well.

And as a smart poster already pointed out that there is no trade value in Gaby. Does Buehrle have a no-trade clause? He might be the only other guy that could bring talent, how many years did the Marlins sign him for? Hanley is still young and I can't give up on him yet, his switch can still easily be flipped up to "ON"

Lomo = toast; Coughlan etc. Bell, yes, it's a waste giving 40million to a closer not named Rivera.

Glags

No way. The opportunity is now. With so many teams close to that second wild card, teams like the blue jays and cardinals that have decent farm systems can be persuaded into a trade. The jays need so much pitching that they signed Moyer to a minor league deal. They have the #1 catching prospect. You send Anibal and one of the guys rotting in the minors and they could make that move. Renting a guy for a few months isn't going to inject anything. Unless you're talking about getting a guy like Mauer or CarGo that have long term deals it makes no sense.

For the record I acknowledge that this is a different tune from a few weeks ago but this organization is a mess.

Stan M

As I go round the majors looking for pickups, there aren't many considering the talent we have to give. Giambi would be cheap, a good RH pinch hitter and great for the clubhouse. Carlos Lee would be a great pickup considering Loria's budget and Houston could have him back next year as a DH. From the Twins there is Doumit whom I think would be a great pickup and Morneau who would be costly. Yes, the Hammer is probably available, but I don't think his power translates well to Marlin's park. I would be happy if they got Giambi, Lee, and Doumit. All would help and cost little. Gabby should either be released or sent down for intensive catching instructions which might be worth the try.

BraMan

Stan, Gabby needs to get sent down to Single A.

Flav C

Stan, this going to be a "sellers" trade season. Whoever has good players to discard (Mariners, Padres, Rockies, Cubs) will be in a very good position to acquire good prospects.
With the addition of the wild card spot, there will be so many teams that will still have a shot at the playoffs that each one of them will try to improve their roster.

I never thought I would say that, but I would hope the Marlins loses more games, so players like LoMo, Coghlan, Gaby, even Hanley, would have a higher value than they actually are worth.

Alex

Stanton is ONLY TWENTY TWO YEARS OLD. Guys need to remember that before criticizing him. That kid could break ALL THE HOME RUN RECORDS before it's over.

Flav C

Alex, no doubt about it. I think the only two positive things we can be sure about the Marlins at this point are:
1 - The trade of Volstad for Z was a steal, and
2 - Stanton is a keeper.

Alex

How funny that the Front Office now wants to discuss what went wrong! I said the following things when the season started: THE MARLINS WILL NEVER WIN ANYTHING WITH INFIELDERS, FIRST BASEMEN, and DH types like Dobbs in the OUTFIELD. Playing guys out of position is STUPIDITY. I also said signing Bell was a huge mistake when Papelbon was available. I also said signing Reyes is a mistake UNLESS they are 100% SURE that Hanley would return to form. And I also said that destroying the Bullpen by getting rid of Brian Sanches, Clay Hensley and Badenhop would come back to haunt them. Finally I said that despite the fact that it LOOKS like the owner is finally spending money, DON'T BE FOOLED. He's not spending it WISELY, but spending it the way a CHEAPSKATE would, trying to get bargains (Buck) and settling for second or third best (Bell).

I said ALL THESE THINGS on Opening Day, ok? In fact it was because I said those things that I got BANNED by Joe "The Shill" Frisaro at his Marlins kiss butt website. So now here come all the Front Office gurus to discuss what went wrong. Hell, if that little CRYBABY Frisaro hadn't gone and had me BANNED, these geniuses could have read this stuff RIGHT THERE ON THE MARLINS' WEBSITE! Would have saved them some money! LMFAO

Alex

What surprised me this year? I'm surprised at just how LOUSY of a manager Ozzie is. Maybe he doesn't understand NL baseball yet, but his managing leaves a LOT to be desired.

Right now this is a BAD BASEBALL TEAM. How do I know this? Not by their W-L record; good teams can have a bad stretch. No, you can tell this a BAD TEAM by the WAY THEY ARE LOSING. They are finding a new way to lose every night; that's the mark of a bad team. If it's not the hitting, it's the starting pitching or the bullpen or the Defense; it seems as if every night they find a new way to lose. That is what BAD TEAMS do, and Good teams find new ways to WIN every night. This is a BAD TEAM right now and they are also a poorly coached and poorly managed team as well.

Alex

Alex, no doubt about it. I think the only two positive things we can be sure about the Marlins at this point are:
1 - The trade of Volstad for Z was a steal, and
2 - Stanton is a keeper.

Posted by: Flav C

ABSOLUTELY, Flav! People here in Miami should be EXCITED beyond belief about this kid Stanton! This kid has unlimited potential, I kid you not. A future Triple Crown Winner? Certainly a possibility. Gold Glover in RF? Definitely has a good chance. Breaking Bonds' lifetime HR mark? Why not? The kid has a great chance to have about 90 HRs when the season ends, at 22 years old. If he stays healthy, the sky is the limit. Everyone needs to remember that he's still LEARNING the game; he was basically a football player until about 4 years ago. But when you look at his physique and see how fast he is, and what a great arm he has, we should be watching this kid the way we watched Jeter when he came up, and Griffey, Bonds, guys like that, because when it comes to potential, he is at LEAST the equal of what those guys were. In another city, this kid would OWN THE TOWN.

Alex

What would I like to hear from Loria?

"I'm embarrassed at the way this team is playing, but we are not giving up. We will be active at the trading deadline trying to improve THIS TEAM; we will not be sellers trying to dump payroll because we know we're out of it. We will do whatever it takes, spend whatever we need to spend, to get this team turned around this year".

If Loria said that and then followed through, I would support him 100%!

richiej

lots of good comments here, but I still think a lot of the problem is due to coaching not getting the job done.

Coghlan when he had his ROY season, gave credit for his success to "on base machine" Nick Johnson, remeber him? Lomo when he first came up was hitting doubles and triples into the gaps, he was being helped by hitting coach Mallee who was fired for some reason, probably because he had a mind of his own. Also, I think part of the reason Lomo was sent dow last year was because he complained about that firing. You see, Lomo also has amind of his own. I also think Lomo was getting a lot of coaching from his Dad who unfortunately passed away but probably watched every at bat. Gaby too, went into his slide after Dave Mallee was fired. Hanley is his own problem. I am not sure he is coachable.
Regarding the pitching, wow. Randy StClaire???? Every baseball analyst marvelled about the talented starting pitching over the past two years. There have been injuries but which starter has progressed under the watchful eye of the hitting coach?
When the entire lineup is doing so poorly, I think it only makes sense to look at the hitting coach. When all the pitching talent makes no progress as they gain time in the Major Leagues, I think there needs to be some evaluation the the pitching coach.
Then there is the terrible job done by front office and management, playing guys out of position, not realizing that a Leader like Uggla was more than worth the extra one year in the contract he wanted, allowing the only Major League experienced Outfielder to go away, for NOTHING. What imbecile decided that Cody Ross was worth Nothing?
But on the bright side, the Marlins play in the only ballpark with tropical fish behind home plate, a view of the city skyline in left field, and a multi million dollar action toy in center field.

Stan M

Alex,
Joe Frisaro is on another blog. Isn't it time you left him there.

I still must respectfully differ with you about signing Reyes. All things considered, his price was not exorbitent. You mentioned you would have preferred Fielder. Right now I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Tigers would gladly swap him for Reyes even up and eat the difference in salaries, too. He has been a negative factor for them by causing two horrible infield defensive positions and this has reigned distruction upon their pitching staff. And if the Angels could trade Pujols AND his salary for Reyes and his salary, I'll bet they just might. Neither of those signings have been truly rewarding. Of course the Marlin FO had to believe that Hanley would improve; he was hurt last year. This team's nosedive has nothing to do with Reyes. However, your point about Bell is well taken. He has been a disaster. Bruelhe(sic) has been about what one would expect and even with his last couple of poor outings, Zambrano has been a huge success, surprisingly, even in the clubhouse. We know that Lorie wanted Ozzie. I wonder about the rest of the powers that be. If I had to pick one major disappointment for this year to date, it would be a tossup between Bell or Ozzie. You were not alone in lamenting the departure of those 3 middle relievers and I still cringe when Cody is good enough to hit cleanup for the Red Sox, but not worth the few million it would have taken to keep him. Ditto deAZA given away for nothing.

richiej

sorry about not proof reading my post above. Randy St Claire is not a hitting coach he is supposed to be the pitching coach.

Glags

Dude, too many holes and not enough trade bait. It's that simple.

Jacob

Really? You'd support him if he said that? You hear that Loria? That's all you have to do to gain Alex's support!

Stan M

Richiej,
Forget the proofing, you had a lot to say, that's what is really important. You did forget to mention the Cleveland Club and the dancing girls. They also make this a better team...right?

Alex

Stan, you consistently MISUNDERSTAND ME when I talk about the Reyes signing. That signing SUCKS right now, but it's really not Reyes' fault, although he's batting only .270 and his Defense has been surprisingly shaky. No, the reason the Reyes signing SUCKS is because this team DIDN'T NEED ANOTHER SINGLES HITTER! We have several of those. This team NEEDS SLUGGERS, guys who can drive in RUNS. Once again, the ONLY WAY that the Reyes signing is a good one is if Hanley and Gaby, Lomo, etc. would PRODUCE. But they ARE NOT PRODUCING. Hence the Reyes signing is not doing us any good at all.

And let's not just gloss over HIS PART in this fiasco either, Stan! Why you want to give him a pass is beyond me! This is the NL batting champ and he's batting 70 points less than last year. And his Defense is very lackadaisical, something I did not know as I didn't see him play every day until this year. No, Reyes deserves HIS SHARE OF THE BLAME TOO.

As for Pujols, you gotta be kidding! He's ON FIRE right now, and just you watch what his numbers will be at years' end. There is no way in HELL that the angels would rather have Reyes. And you must be kidding about Fielder as well. He's batting .306 with 12 HRs but also FIFTY RBI's and has an OBP of .379!!! I have always respected your posts, Stan, but to say you would rather have REYES and his sorry ass .270 BA instead of Pujols or Fielder is just plain ridiculous, I'm sorry.

Alex

Seriously, it's time for the Reyes honeymoon to be OVER. We rip on Heath Bell for not producing, justifiably so, but we have been giving Reyes a free pass since Opening Day. Well, it's almost July and he's batting .270, which is 67 points LOWER than last year. He is starting to look like another Hanley, a guy who has one great year, wins a batting title, and then goes back to being an average guy. And then there's the matter of his Defense. He's an ok SS, nothing more. And he has a tendency to get a little too laid back, too lackadaisical.

All this doesn't make him a bad player. But we are paying this guy $109 MILLION dollars! I'm sorry, Stan, for THAT kind of money, I expect MORE. He definitely is UNDERPERFORMING and deserves his share of the blame for how this TEAM is performing.

Still, his On Base Percentage is good at .350. It's not HIS FAULT that Hanley, Lomo, Gaby, Buck, etc., etc., have SUCKED and are not driving him in. But he isn't BLAMELESS either. If we are going to HONESTLY evaluate this team, NOBODY GETS A PASS.

flagstafffishfan

I don't know Alex...Reyes is starting to hit the crap out of the ball right now. I do agree with you that because Hanley has lost his mojo we too often see Jose...Jose Jose Jose...left standing on 2nd or 3rd base and without a true RBI man both he and Boni have looked like their stranded on an island for much of this year. Hmmm..Maybe we should have him steal home every time he makes it to 3rd. I think I'll drop this in the suggestion box at Marlins Park. In terms of blame...we were all told at the beginning of the year by OZZIE that we can blame him for any failures this team endures...so guess what I blame OZZIE!!

flagstafffishfan

Look two "dirty Sanchez's" in the lineup tonight...Wonder which one will stink worse? Like the above post says we need Anibel to pitch well so we can trade him!! Ugh!

Alex

And I also strongly DISAGREE with you Stan that the FO "had to believe that Hanley would produce". C'mon, man, you are much smarter than that, LOL! You've been watching this kid since he came up, right, just like I did, right? Well, NOTHING I have seen since 2009 (when he dogged it in August and nearly got punched out by Uggla for doing so!) made me believe that Hanley would suddenly produce this year. Sure, the Front Office was HOPING he would return to form; we all were! But let's be honest, injured or not, nothing I saw since 2009 made me think he was ready to start tearing up the league again. Did YOU really think he would? I doubt it, LOL!

Alex

"I do agree with you that because Hanley has lost his mojo we too often see Jose...Jose Jose Jose...left standing on 2nd or 3rd base and without a true RBI man both he and Boni have looked like their stranded on an island for much of this year." - flagstaff

BINGO! That's exactly what I'm saying. Without a guy DRIVING IN RUNS, Reyes is just another LEFT ON BASE statistic. And we KNEW last year that what this team REALLY NEEDED was a slugger. The Marlins getting Reyes is like a starving man buying himself a nice gold chain. Looks great, but it won't do nothing for that HUNGRY feeling in your stomach! LOL!

Alex

LMFAO!!!! He's got Gaby at 1st base and Dobbs in Left Field tonight. This guy Ozzie is as stupid as can be. He's just in LOVE with SLOW INFIELDERS playing the OF! This is a huge Left Field. Neither Dobbs, nor Lomo, nor Kearns has ANY BUSINESS in this outfield. F*CKING MORONIC.

If he loves Dobbs' bat so much, play him at 1st base, even though he has no power. No way should Dobbs be in LF.

Glags

I'm not sure that you understand, none of us do, how to run an organization. With that said you don't dump a player that you signed for six years after 1/4 of a season into the first year of that contract. For one you still need someone to play SS and secondly it reflects poorly on the organization and further cements the very same thing that this organization in particular has been killed for in the past.

I'll give you that their first mistake was banking on Hanley and Lomo to be productive. I for one bought into the notion of H2R.09. It hasn't worked out. Absolutely no one is without fault but Reyes is the least of this teams problems.

Stan M

Alex, if you think back to last year, Hanley (whom I do not like either by the way) hit quite well when he came back from his injury. Therefore there was reason to expect him to perform reasonably well. Furthermore, with this huge new ball field, gap hitters are a must. And Reyes personifies that role. Lastly, the idea was to team him with Bono, not Hanley, and recreate the flying twins of 2003, Juan and Luis. Regarding your comments about Fielder's worth, please note that last year Detroit finished with a winning percentage of .586. This year they have a losing percentage of.486. And you think they are happy with that signing? Finally, ask yourself this question. Would you rather have Reyes at 28YO for the next 6 years, or Pujols for the next 10 years at 32 YO (and like many others, I think he's 34 or 35) and that monster contract? Notice with Pujols I said his contract would have to go with him. Under those circumstances, I think the Angels would part with him in a heartbeat. Reason is not just his performance, but examining a more inclusive picture, also the unexpected way that Kendry Morales, Trumbo and Trout are playing. Right now Pujols is either the 4th or 5th best position player on that team depending on where one would evaluate Kendrick. And did I personally think Hanley would return to form. Yes, to the 2010 form but doubtful to the 2009 form. But I don't like the guy either and have expressed my doubts as to whether this team can ever be a true winner with him at its center. As Gary Sheffield said in a recent interview, Hanley thinks of himself as a star but still has much to prove to actually become one.

Moe The Fan

Hanley has a contract year coming up in '13, so at this time next year he should be leading the league in hitting. That's when the bum should be traded. Marlin execs have fallen for their own hype. Lomo, Gaby, give me a break!

Flagstafffishfan

Does it really matter if it's Reyes or whoever. Look down 2-0 in the first. The whole team sucks balls! Really pathetic. Can't wait to watch Showtime.

James Moore

Stop with the "V" sign over the eye thing.
It's stupid. If I'm the manager (and I'm not) I tell the players knock that bullsxxt off. It looks like "Little League". Also, tell Mr. Reyes he can start paying attention to base coaches that's what they're out on the field for. Just because he has speed on the base paths doesn't mean he takes chances and run the team out of innings all the time.

James Moore

Ozzie get your mojo.
You're trying to be "all nice".
When you're "nice" your team is weak.
Quit being a little sissy boy just cause you made some
dumb comments a long time ago. Run your mouth, and loud!!

Alex

Glags, what the hell are you talking about? Where did I say we should "dump Reyes"? I just said we OVERPAID for him and he's not producing what we hoped. NEVER SAID anything about "dumping him".

glags

My bad. Misinterpretation.

al

You guys are all very long winded, I remember 1997 and 2003
we picked up some great insurence for the runs to the W/S
and I think they can again and keep the team as it is and I
know the younger players will pick it up. You got to believe!!!!

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