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Jeffrey Loria address players in clubhouse meeting, says he still believes

    BOSTON -- Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria addressed players and coaches in a closed-door clubhouse meeting shortly before batting practice, telling them he hasn't given up on them and doesn't want them to quit, either.

     Players I spoke with said Loria was calm and matter-of-fact, never raising his voice, during his talk, which lasted for about 10 minutes. Coaches and manager Ozzie Guillen also sat in on the meeting. Here's what Loria said he told the players:

    "The general theme was I wanted them to look back when they first started discovering baseball. And then they discovered that they could play baseball. And then they discovered that they could play it really well. And that they could become professionals, and what it meant to them....to start thinking about that for a few moments each day. I went on from there to talk about that this is the best team I've ever been involved with, and I believed in them. That they're capable of doing a lot of successful things this year.

    "I pointed to Josh (Johnson) and told him you have that little adorable blond here kid who's in here everyday, running around, and lots of you have little kids running around. Wouldn't you like them to know that you did something good? I'm not quitting on you, so don't quit on yourselves. We have a very good club.

    "I"m not angry at anybody. I have no anger with anybody. And Heath Bell at the end reminded them that it's still a family and we should all keep working with each other. There are ups and downs in this business. I still have enormous faith in everybody. The talent level is enormous."

    Loria said it was when he couldn't sleep last night following the Marlins' 15-5 loss to the Red Sox that he decided to speak to the team.

    "I was up the whole night thinking about it," Loria continued. "I care about this, as you well know. And I mentioned to my wife that I want to say what I want to say to the players.

    "I talked to them about that I've had the success I want to have in my life and you still haven't experienced it. Yes, you're making money. But when the money is all spent down the road, it's going to be what you accomplished that matters. And that's what you'll be talking about, not that I had a contract for X million dollars.

    "I think they heard. It may resonate with a few guys. It may resonate with many. But, eventually they'll think about it. I can't hit for them, I can't field for them and I can't pitch for them. But I do my part."

Comments

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jb smoove

Yawn..bet it went in one ear and out the other, especially coming from a B.S Art Dealer who never played as a Pro.

Billy's Bunch

Best team he's ever been "involved with"? Guess Loria wasnt too involved with the 03' WS team that Dave Dombrowski with the previous owners put together. What a crock. More merde from the top. Shut Up Loria. Nobody believes a word you say. Bring a shovel next time so we can dig our way out of the crap your spreading around us.

Flagstafffishfan

I actually think this is a good thing. It has been so negative for so long and I'm tired of watching my team lose. Hopefully they find a little inspiration in what the owner said. I don't care about his reputation or the bad press. Just tired of writing all the negatives I see with this team. I do want to see a sox player get dusted off tonight though! He's right too these players have shown flashes of dominating baseball skills. Don't know where they've hidden it but it has to be somewhere. Still hope they can turn it around and fast.

Glags

You know effed part is that I hard Beinfest say today that he doesn't know if this team is the May team or the April, June team. He's our talent evaluator, if he doesn't know then what are we to expect.

Max

How come no mention how Ramirez and Reys go to that night club called Live everynight till 5 am during home games. Nothing like drunken ballplayers. That's what i am told anyone. Dont wanna start rumors but i think it might be true

Flagstafffishfan

Off to a great start. Holding my breath for Big Z.

Alex

What a JOKE! Jeffrey LIE-ria is one of the most slimy and despised owners in baseball. Nice to see how the team responded to him!

Scott Pose

Does anyone want to formulate a guess as to who besides the 12 of us were watching this game? I am really serious about Showtime having stumbled into an Emmy winning series. Has anyone noticed you never see the slimy little in-law when things are going bad? I mean you don't see the diminutive reprobate at all. Where does he go? Is there a pygmy competition that only coincides with bad Marlin streaks? Where is that guy? I would possibly not be running around Dade County if the Heat win tonight. I don't know if the little guy will try to get some road work in, but tonight might not have a fortuitous ending.

Alex

This team NEVER has the same line up two nights in a row. Of course that has NOTHING to do with all these losses, right? Look at this nonsense tonight:

Dobbs playing 3rd base, Lomo in LF, Gaby with his .140 BA (in June) at 1st base and Ruggiano on the bench again. This is a line up that could really hurt them; the whole left side is suspect defensively. Barely adequate, if that.

Ruggiano gets a double and a triple and gets a seat on the bench for his trouble. Meanwhile the miserable Gaby keeps playing, which means Lomo in the OF, weakening the defense and taking the bat away from Ruggiano.

Ozzie is starting to really piss me off. These line ups, letting Choate pitch to righties, not pinch hitting and pinch running for Buck, his love of Dobbs and Kearns as starters (despite Dobbs' hit, he's better ON THE BENCH), not walking the other teams' hot hitters. The list goes on.

Cornholio

the Bullpen was in the crapper when Loria was putting the rest of the team to sleep with his pep talk.

Alex

This is another loss that's the fault of the anemic offense? What about the bullpen, you ask? Look, had the offense put away Dice K like they should have, and continued to hit after the 1st inning and add on runs like they should have, we would have won. Yes, the bullpen sucked tonight. But the hitting was worse.

Scott Pose

I hear Mujica is the real bullpen clown. Maybe he can wrap a boa around his neck and do some Milton Berle impersonations. My wife and I were both wondering if these players realize they would not have wives of this pedigree if they were not making million a year? Do you think any of these guys believe these stauesque former prom queens are hanging with them because of the charming personalities.The most shocking thing about what I saw tonight did not take place on the field. Anyone else see something that was beyond mind boggling?

Dipshitz happens

Lomo the Great looks at strike 3,right down the middle,with runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out in the 1st. Guess Lomo was truly inspired by the great motivator Loria. Lomo was tweeting during Loria's coma inducing effort.

Glags

Well, Lebron finally got his ring. That's positive.

Stan M

Can't understand why they didn't bring in the Hopper. Oh, that's right, he was traded for a reserve catcher in AA ball. Well then Brian Sanches. No, he was just let go. Then it has to be Hensley, he was pretty good. You mean to say he's gone,too! Why? But none of that matters when we make 3 big signings...right? What was that song of many years ago? Oh, yea, "Little Things Mean A Lot"

richiej

sad, very sad. maybe they need Rosary Beads, 25-30 sets of Rosary Beads. Maybe a few Novenas too.

Alex

Lomo has the bad habit of not really beginning his AB until he has two strikes on him. Wade Boggs used to do that, except Boggs would never just stand there and get called out looking as many times as Lomo has done.

Alex

Hey, i wonder how Joe "The Shill" Frisaro is covering this monumental June swoon over on the "Let's Give Loria Some Strokes" website. I bet they are saying that this losing is all part of Loria's Master Plan. It's called the "Possum Marlin" strategy (as in "playin' possum"; get it?), and what it entails is the Marlins losing all these games ON PURPOSE. This is done to lull the opposition to sleep, so that they laugh us off and don't consider us a real threat. And when they are least expecting it, this team will reel off 20 wins in a row and take the NL East at the last minute, storm in to the playoffs on the momentum, and ride it to our third World Series title!

That Loria sure is a smart man!

Dr. NO

Loria giving a pep talk is reminiscent of the scene from The Natural, when the New York Knights get the pep talk, "losing is a disease,just like syphilis". Well, the Marlins might have "the syph" comcast.netand it's gonna take a Roy Hobbs effort, like Stanton in May, to get them out of it. Otherwise, the patient is terminal.

Alex

Hanley's batting .194 this month with 3 HR's, the 3 he hit in Philly the first two days of June. Nothing since then.

Alex

LOL @ Dr. No.

Mr Softy

Hanley should dye his hair glow-in-the-dark orange again, to change his luck. Would look great with the white uni's and orange socks, sleeves and cap. Like a chocolate creamsicle. They could serve Hanley Creamsicle Martini's at the Clevelander, to take everybodies mind off the team.

Flav C

I still believe in this team. Infante is hitting much better in the # 5 spot, which is the spot he had much success in the beginning of the season. LoMo is hitting better. And several other players will start going back to their historical bat avg numbers, or very close to it.
"A guy's going to be who he is". This is not me saying that, this was Shane Battier, who possibly has a much higher IQ than I do. When asked about having a "hot hand", he basically said he didn't prescribe for that, he was just finding the shots and moving back his avg to his historical avg. This is called regression to the means. In the interview, he joked and called it "aggression to the means".
Some players, when they see their average plummet, they start to press hard to get back to their regular numbers. Most make things worse but eventually, they start to slowly climb back towards the average.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is the following:
Buck is not a .280 player (his best bat avg), but he is definitely not a .168 (his current and worse bat avg). You will find him very close to .230, which is his bat avg of his other 7 ML seasons.
Reyes is not a .337 hitter (his best bat avg, achieved last season), but he is not a .255 hitter (his worse performance in 2005). He is close to .285, which is the average of all the other seasons. You can see that he is slowly climbing towards that in 2012. Same is valid for Hayes, who started hot this season and several fans were already insanely saying he was the solution for our catching position. Now take another look where his numbers are this season and compare to his historical avg.
Young hitters like Gaby, Lomo, Coghlan...it is much harder to define what type of hitters they are because of the small sampling and short career in the Majors.
But in the end, "a guy's going to be who he is".

As far as the Red Sox series, the offense did a good job. Not great, not amazing, but good. Scoring 5 runs in a game will give you a win 75% of the time. We scored 5 runs three times in this series and came out empty handed. So, think whatever you want, but to blame the offense for these loses would seem awkward.

As a said, I still believe in this team. After all, Nats is 8 games ahead of us. The wild card leaders are 4.5 games ahead. In the big scheme of things, those numbers can quickly fade away and we're still in June. And oddly enough, the Nats scored only 4 more runs than the Marlins this season. Their pitching has been keeping them alive, not sure for how long they can continue doing that.

Hi! I'm Matt Dominguez and Kyle Skipworth. Remember Me?

Stan, The strange thing is that these guys continue to regress and this has ben a trend going back years. The latest example is Mike Dunn. I believe most who followed the Marlins saw a very impressive left handed power arm and now he may be "Done" as in Dunn. Webb had an impressive debut with the Padres in 2010 and most thought he was near closer ready--anyone still think that. Mujica would be fine if they had a Penn Gilette to go along with his Teller impersonation. Remember the [power arm that was Taylor Tankersley? Probably back in Huntsville. At least his parents are nuclear physicists so nobody will starve. The inimitable Logan Kensing--another power arm--Not so much.The guy with the alias who is being eyed by governmental agencies forever. Is there a YOUNG(under 32) FORMER Marlin reliever who is a trustworthy part of a bullpen in baseball? This team ruins promising young arms. This team cuts arms while they are still functional. This team has such inconsistent starting pitching over the years that it tears out young arms and spits them out.

In another 10 days when the basketball euphoria is over could SOMEONE, ANYONE who follows the Marlins write a piece on the total breakdown of the drafting process since Beckett and Gonzalez? Cabrera was a free agent signing in Venezuela. Are there any "good" former Marlins draftees playing in the Major Leagues who were drafted since 2002? Do you read the box scores in the morning--and besides Miguel Cabrera and Adrian Gonzalez--and that was over a decade ago--do you say to yourself "We gave up too early on him.

Allison, Volstad, Skipworth, Dominguez and on and on and on and on. What kind of waste matter is this/ How is this possible? Justin Marceaux?? What in the name of all that is good is happening? This is flotsam and jetsam. This is not acceptable. Is Yelich going to be able to play? We all think so, but he ain't no Nick Castellanos. We got 2 guys who look like they are ripping up Greensboro. Great!!!! Greensboro is the home of the ACC Basketball Tournament and has not yet been dubbed "The Home of Future Major League Stars", why by acclamation has this been called one of the most sparse and barren systems in baseball? The excuse ONCE was the infusion of all this "young talent" into the Majors. Morrison, Coghlin and others. Now it's all about Stanton and we all better hope there ain't no permanent hole in his swing. Our future 3rd baseman is hitting.220, our future catcher is hitting .220, we have no future CF or second baseman. We have 2 starters on the verge of walking, another starter with numerouds physical and other problems, a 35 year old "crafty" lefty and one guy who was suppose to be a sure thing. A bullpen in shambles. A closer who has thrown a Hell of a lot of pitches.

Heys guys, this stuff writes itself and you have the resources of a major metropolitan paper behind you and basketball season is over and you can tie in the lingering financial stench and the impending dropoff of attendance and a White Elephant that gives meaning to "White Elephant", in the words of Ben Bradlee---"WRITE IT!!!!!!"

jimmy the geek

Flav C..what you say is true, thats why the Marlins will be a slightly above .500 team. That's it.Period. Unless they get better players, with better lifetime MLB numbers.

Flav C

Jimmy, I agree with you.

Flav C

And just to finalize: I am not drinking the cool-aid or anything like that :)
Believing in this time doesn't mean I think "this is the best team Ii've been involved with". Far from it.
But this is a competitive team, that, if some adjustments are made (several suggestions were given here in this boards), could result in the Marlins being playoff-bound.
As Alex mentioned here several times, the Marlins had the opportunity to make the playoffs in 2009, and the FO did nothing to help their cause. This is a good opportunity to show they mean business.

Hi! I'm Matt Dominguez and Kyle Skipworth. Remember Me?

Dear Flav, Sorry I didn't read your comment first. You are right about "Guys being who they are", the only problem too many of these guys we never really got a real idea who they were and with a couple of other guys the personalities have been of such magnitude that they were able to intrude upon performance. We also can no longer ignore the abject failure of this farm system.

You guys all bring something to the analysis of what has happened. I tend to focus on the sheer craziness and incompetence of having NOBODY ready at so many positions. To not even have a marginal left fielder, center fielder, catcher and first baseman Malor League "acceptable" is nearly unheard of. How is that even remotely possible. There have been more busts in this organization than in Hefner's Mansion. It's hard to believe that given the Marlins' draft position and the number of picks that they could not accidentally have stumbled onto a catcher, left fielder, first baseman, center fielder and even third baseman. However, the strangest thing remains the total lack of commentary about just how bad these selections have bben the last 10 or so years. You almost could not have successfully flopped on purpose in so many areas of need. Agreed?

Flav C

My friend, I couldn't agree with you more. You've been bringing this topic for a long time already and If I recall well, you called here first last year when you said this team would linger for 2-3 years because of how bad the farm system was. Last year was rated the worse in the ML. I think I wrote here the other day a comparison between the Nats and the Fish regarding their draft selections since between 2004-2008. Basically, after 200 hundred kids were drafted, the Marlins has only 2 quality starters in Stanton and Cishek. The Nats has almost their entire starting lineup, most of their starting rotation, several good relievers and some good bench guys, not including good prospects they used to trade for Gio.
Wouldn't that go back to the Marlins scouting/draft mentality of quantity over quality? Instead of paying a bigger bonus for quality prospects and hence, drafting less kids, the Marlins MO over the last 10 years has been of usually selecting much more kids by paying a smaller amount in signing bonus for each of them?

flagstafffishfan

I'm still euphoric over the Heat being the CHAMPIONS!!! I really thought the fish had a chance yesterday. And I agree with the above postings as well concerning how the Marlins draft and their inability to locate any quality players with their current approach. Yeah I think were basically looking at a team that will be a few games over .500 and that's about it. It's almost like Mujica has taken the "blow the game" torch from Bell. Let's see how they fair tonight back home against Toronto. No more news for this team to hide behind with Basketball over and football still a ways away. If it keeps up I would imagine we'll be hearing boos directed at just about everyone and a pretty empty park come mid July into August. Then let's see how patient Jeffrey is with his team?

Hi! I'm Matt Dominguez and Kyle Skipworth. Remember Me?

Dear Flav and Flags(And I will be out there in a couple of months), You 2 guys are among my favorite posters. Also like Stan and a couple of others. As I said yesterday I was a pain in the butt in my former guise and I hope I have apologized sufficiently to atone. If not- once again I express remorsIf anybody could give an opinion as to the reluctance to address this train wreck, I would appreciate it. Everyone seems to have ben fooled by the Merry Month of May. Go back and look at that month. Look at the teams and WHEN we were catching them. It was a facade. This team is ill equipped to compete with the few dominant teams in MLB. They get locked down by good(NOT GREAT) pitching. They have trouble with power pitchers and they have troubles with finesse guys. What else is left? As we have said ad nauseum--and there I go again adding to it--you can't have the 5,6,7 and 8 holes in your order as empty holes. Your 2 year removed Batting Champ has for some reason changed his whole approach after maybe watching a Charlie Lau Video, your potential superstar RF is a butcher in the field and still goes into slumps that linger way too long where he apparently isn't even seeing the ball. Bonifacio obviously demands 10 million a year off of what we are seeing. They may be a different team because of his absence or they may have bben primed to come back to Earth when he as hurt.

IF i could ask one question to a CANDID Guillen it would be if he ever had an inkling this was coming. i guess I would also like to ask some more knowledgable people in baseball what the real opinions are of Beinfest and his gang?

I was going to cancel these road trips but what the Hell it's baseball. Well, what the other teams play is baseball. I have really started to pull for the Nats because I know they are better than Miami and the Nats are a far better feel good story than the Braves, Phillies or Mets.

Flags, maybe we can meet up in Phoenix. Give me the name of a restaurant and I'll wear a Marlins jacket if i look respectable come by and talk. I'm staying away from Brewer on a tarmac.

laurelbowie

Some good analysis here today from several baseball-savvy contributors. In my mind, the important thing is to make a significant move right now, if for nothing else than to boost this team's psyche before it's too late. Go out and acquire a Carlos Quentin or Carlos Lee or Denard Span, or maybe find a halfway decent catcher somewhere. Anything that will draw a psychological line of demarcation that says "OK, boys, forget about everything that's happened to this point, our new season starts right now." After last night's game, the cameras lingered on Hanley and Reyes, not rushing off to shower but sitting very still in the dugout looking totally shell-shocked. In a way, this was encouraging because you could see that they really cared, which is sometimes in question with Hanley. But if the team gets to point where they think no matter how hard we try, it ain't gonna happen, then this season really is over.
Wonder if they'll get 15,000 people at the ballpark tonight. There's your over and under.

Flav C

LB, i'm used to be at the Dolphins stadium with 200 more folks. 15,000 will feel like I'm in Fenway!

laurelbowie

Flav C,
Know what you mean. Did anybody else think the crowd at Fenway seemed listless and uninterested through most of last night's game? Guess it was the heat. Or maybe the Heat.

jimmy the geek

May 1st 5 under .500...June 1st 6 over .500...3 games under .500 with 9 home games to go thru July 1st, gotta get back to at least .500 and above on this homestand ,and then we will see how serious Loria is by upgrading players and sitting the dead wood.

Flagstafffishfan

Hanley has to be on the block at this point with the trade deadline looming right?

laurelbowie

Flagstaff,
I'd think the entire team is on the trading block now except Reyes, Stanton and the starting pitchers. But Hanley, Infante, and a couple of relievers are the only guys who'd bring anything in return.

Scott Pose

Flag, Imagine you are any other team in MLB and tell me what you will give me for Hanley? I have friends with the Tigers so I know that organization better than any other. They obviously will not speak to me about something like that but I do know their system and perception of the marlins. Cabrera has made himself into a very acceptable #B and he does not want to DH. Peralta is serviceable and that is about it. So they could obviously go for a "SS". Let's assume they even think hanley can play SS(believe he's shown he's a better 3B but let's play along) what do they give up. I believe they MIGHT--it's now morphed down to "might" because of Hanley's troubles--give up Boesch, a VERY GOOD young pitcher and Ramon Santiago. That's It!!! Finite!! Basta!! Now I believe the marlins say NO to that but that is all they are getting from at least one team based on the last year and 3 months. They say "take it", Fish say "leave it" and the marlins could try someone else.

I'd like to hear what other believe other teams would give up. BUT remember you need 2 teams for a deal.

Scott Pose

Should have said the Marlins would install Boesch in LF, Play Infante at 3rd, santiago at 2B, Morrison to 1B, young pitcher would be ready by end of year or start of 2013, and Gaby has to take the Obsesssive Compulsive manipulation of his batting gloves somewhere else.

jimmy the geek

In 97 Dombrowski traded for Darren Daulton and Craig Counsell...In 03 Beinfest traded Adrian Gonzalez for Urbina and traded for Conine due to Mike Lowells injury. Marlins need to make similar impact trades in July to get to the play-offs. The right 2 players could get them there, if Loria will roll the dice and go for broke,making ALL minor leaguers available.

laurelbowie

I'm not convinced the Marlins should trade Hanley but I'm convinced they would if the right deal came knocking. The Dodgers might be a good candidate because they desperately need somebody to replace Uribe at third and Hanley has always played well against them. They also need help at first base. Anybody got any ideas?
Speaking of the Dodgers, our old friend Matt Treanor is hitting .280-something as their backup catcher — about twice what Buck is hitting.

Stan M

Making a trade at this jucture using our ML roster would not be beneficial because most of our players are at an all time low in value. Therefore it would have to be a salary dump player acquired.

I have a different opinion about our farm system in general. This team has been very young for some time and with a developing player at virtually every position. Therefore, the team did not need a load of prospects in AAA all ready to step in. Rather they needed young kids with excellent upside who would be ready as the present roster aged or became too expensive to keep. They have that in both A ball teams. The fact that some of our ML players have not developed as expected has been a major problem. That and letting very good "fill in" players depart. Yes, there have been some glaring mistakes in signings. Taking Dominguez over Heywood was a major blunder. But I don't think it is time to give up on Skipworth just yet. Nearly all catchers take longer to develop their offensive skills. The mistake there was signing Buck. Nearly all of us clamoured to have Hayes take over, but his more frequent play has exposed his shortcomings as well. How much did financial considerations come into play in our signimgs and our releases and trades. We all know the answer to that...too damn much. The true bottom line isn't our scouts, or our front office; it's our parsimonious owner. We might draw 15,000 tonight, but a crowd of 25,000 will be announced.

flagstafffishfan

@Hi! I'm Matt Dominguez and Kyle Skipworth. Remember Me - I will be at the Thursday 8/23 game in PHX. Would love to hook up. I normally go to Cooperstown outside the park before the game for a beer or two..who knows i might need more to numb myself by the time August comes around.

Agreed Scott that it wouldn't be a blockbuster trade with Hanley anymore. I'm not familiar with enough minor league guys but again agree that no team would part with any upper tier talent for Hanley. I just feel that the Marlins have over the past several years worked so hard to make this "Hanley's Team" and we know that isn't working out. If he goes I think it allows for the team to grow. They feel and look stagnant, almost like their waiting for him to return to form. I like @jimmy's comment above about some of the moves they made in the past bringing in more impact players both on the field and in the clubhouse. And @laurel is right too, I did see some fire last night and I do think they obviously want to win but the talent assembled with players out of position defensively as Alex would say, makes it hard at times.

I too would love to know if Ozzie would like to blow this whole mess up and start over with a squad that he can groom a little bit and I'm sure he had no idea that guys like Gaby, Buck, Cogs, Hanley, Lomo, Boni, heck the whole team, would struggle this much. My other comment about Bonifacio coming back and making that big of an impact is.....No Way! He's good but there is no way that guy comes back and suddenly this whole team turns it around. I'm still of the thought as well that over the past several years this team comes out of Spring Training and they look unprepared. Like I said above I don't mind an owner coming in and giving a pep talk but it looks like he may have been better served to talk to the wall. Oh and on Mujica...maybe he should spend a little more time preparing for games than being known as the team prankster. Begging for a win tonight. Enjoyed all the comments...helped the day go by faster as I'm nursing a hangover from watching the HEAT!!!

Alex

Flav C, I really WANT to believe in this team. For me, summer sucks when my baseball team is out of it by the 4th of July. I read your post, and it was an intelligent one, and I never said you didn't know your baseball. And of course I paid particular note to your point about guys being who they are, etc. True, usually guys finish up right around their usual statistics; guys who are .275 hitters usually end up hitting close to .275. Unless of course they have a "career year" like Reyes did last year. I agree with ALL OF THAT which you said.

But you forgot one little detail, and I really HATE to bring this up, because DAMNIT, I WANT TO BELIEVE! I need a baseball team to root for this summer, and my team is the Marlins. But this is what you forgot: just like guys can have a "career year", so too it is possible for them to have a "career DOWN year", a year where their stats are completely out of line with their usual numbers but in a negative way. And that's what it appears is happening on the Fish; SEVERAL PLAYERS are having career DOWN years at the same time. And of course the hitting coach is of no use at all, not even, apparently, to TALK TO THE PLAYERS ABOUT CHANGING THEIR APPROACH. Some of these guys who are driving us nuts don't NEED their whole swing mechanics analyzed and tinkered with. Many of these guys just need to be schooled about HOW THEY APPROACH THEIR AT BATS.

Too many of our guys are seemingly oblivious to what the game situation is when they come up to bat. What the score is, who's on base, WHAT THE CORRECT STRATEGY IS FOR THE SITUATION; it seems to me that some of these guys spend zero time THINKING about those things. They swing for the fences and PULL THE BALL with a runner on 2nd or 3rd with no outs, either striking out, or hitting a grounder to the left side, not advancing the runners. It's like some of these guys are strangers to the concept of a PRODUCTIVE OUT, which considering ho3w many outs they make, is really dumb. If you are going to make an out, at least make it a productive out, but this seems to be an alien concept to these guys. I coached Little Leaguers with better baseball situational awareness than these guys.

Yeah, Flav, I really wanna BELIEVE, dude, I do. And true, they ain't THAT FAR out of it yet. But very little of what I SEE gives me any hope. And despite your good post, very little of what I READ gives me any hope either.

Alex

"As Alex mentioned here several times, the Marlins had the opportunity to make the playoffs in 2009, and the FO did nothing to help their cause."

Posted by: Flav C

Well, that's not 100% correct. In 2009 they made a pick up at the trading deadline - they got....drumroll!...Nick JOHNSON!!!! "Nick (echoes like the PA at Yankee Stadium, Nick, Nick...Johnson, Johnson; LOL!) Yup, with all the pitching help they needed they went out and got NICK JOHNSON. Who played about a week before getting hurt. Also, we had a good squad in 2008! At least that year we did get one pitcher - the big lefty reliever Arthur Rhodes. Rhodes did help, but it was staggering that we didn't even TRY to pick up a starter (plenty were available BOTH YEARS, including Vincente Padilla) that year or ANY KIND OF PITCHER in 2009. Nick Bleeping Johnson. Are you kidding me? Apparently not!

"This is a good opportunity to show they mean business." - Flav C

True, but here's the problem: if the team is under .500, what's the point? The only way it makes sense to add guys at the deadline is if you're over .500, playing good ball, and you believe a few additions will get you over the hump.

laurelbowie

Alex,
I don't know whether the hitters aren't smart enough to figure out the situation and react accordingly, or whether they do know what's needed from them and just aren't good enough to pull it off. If they really don't understand the correct strategy for a given situation, then that's the fault of Ozzie and Eduardo and Joey Cora, because they're standing RIGHT THERE, close enough to whisper in the hitter's ear moments before they step into the batter's box. So why isn't somebody talking to them? (Now, dammit, you've got me typing in CAPITAL LETTERS, too.)

Alex

LOL...LB, I only capitalize those words that, if I were standing there and speaking to you face to face, I would EMPHASIZE by inflection or by slightly raising my voice. Basically, I write the way I talk.

LB, these guys have been playing baseball since Little league, so they all certainly KNOW about situational hitting, but in my experience guys need to constantly be reminded about these things. I know myself, when I came up to hit, at times the adrenaline would take over and I wasn't thinking of what I was trying to ACCOMPLISH with that AB. Every hitter should have a CLEAR PLAN in his mind of what he NEEDS TO ACCOMPLISH with that AB. I know guys will say "well, the plan is ALWAYS get a hit!" but it's not that simple. With runners on base and less than two outs you should be thinking "get a hit", but also "I need to move the runners up if I CAN'T get a hit". That will dictate what kind of pitch you will look for, what kind of swing you will take, the whole 9 yards. Coaches should be reminding guys of the game situation and what they should be trying to accomplish and they should be talking about game strategy in team meetings as well. In my experience (with kids, admittedly) you have to CONSTANTLY be saying it to the players or they forget. Sure, you shouldn't have to remind major leaguers like you do Little League kids, but if a team is struggling and has a hard time making productive outs, then you have to drill it into them.

laurelbowie

Alex,
I think we're saying the same thing: Somebody should be talking them, but apparently, nobody is.
Take a look at that lineup the Fish are throwing out there tonight and it's scary. It's pretty obvious why they're not winning ballgames.

Scott Pose

Time for the Nats. I'll keep the BP down. I'll see some good baseball and it will be played by guys who look like they care.

Alex

Just unbelievable. They haven't even hit rock bottom yet with all these losses. Each game it gets worse and worse! The line up? Of course I hate seeing Kearns in the OF, same as I hate to see Dobbs there, but considering that no one seems to know how to hit, I can almost condone what Ozzie is trying to do with these crazy line ups.

The only thing I can't figure out is if Ozzie knows this team is shot and has completely given up or not. One can look at some of these lineups and some of these pitching moves (Gaudin means I quit!) and come to the conclusion that Ozzie no longer cares. Either that or he is so frustrated and desperate that he will do ANYTHING, no matter how crazy.

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