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Greenberg homers in B.P.; Guillen decision could linger

     Adam Greenberg -- the one-at-bat man for the Marlins -- said he was more nervous about having to stand up and sing in front of Marlins players (while wearing a skimpy bathing suit) than he was about facing the Mets' R.A. Dickey later on.

      Greenberg was the center of attention in the clubhouse and during batting practice heading into tonight's cameo appearance, when he'll step into the batter's box in a major league uniform for the first time since 2005 when he was hit by a pitch at Sun Life Stadium while making his big league debut with the Chicago Cubs.

      Greenberg looked uncertain fielding the outfield during batting practice. But it's unlikely he'll see any playing time in the field. Instead, manager Ozzie Guillen indicated that, more than likely, Greenberg will pinch-hit at some point during the middle innings.

       The 31-year-old player looked much better in the batting cage, where he ended his session with a home run to right on the last pitch thrown to him.

       As for Guillen, there's a good chance no announcement concerning his future with the team will be made before the season finale tomorrow. Guillen hasn't been told anything, one way or the other, and is going overseas for vacation on Thursday. He said that while he has spoken with Marlins over Jeffrey Loria the past couple of days about what needs to be done to improve the team, his job status has not been discussed. There's always a chance that Loria, should he decide to keep Guillen -- who is under contract for three more seasons -- makes no formal announcement of any kind.

        With that, here's some video of Greenberg in the cage:   

Comments

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Camera Mike

Jacob Turner pitches a great 7 2/3's and we finally stand a chance of getting a win against Dickie, but the Ozzie had to go with Dunn and Bell who did the only thing they know how to and cost Turner a win and possibly the same for the fish. I hope that is the last time we have to see either of them in a Marlins uniform. They're the best players for the other team.

Marlin Fan

Amen Camera Mike . Ideally Turner finishes the inning. He has all off season to rest.

Camera Mike

I think tonight was the first time I saw a player earn a golden sombrero and get the game winning RBI. Way to save the night Solano. Seeing things like that is why I love baseball. Also it was great to see Greemberg's at bat. Yes he went down swinging but good for him for getting back to the plate and being healthy enough to do so. I hope we invite him to spring training and let him try out for us.

laurelbowie

Stan M,
I want to make sure you saw the compliment I paid you on the previous thread. I guess American Airlines isn't the only one with a loose-seat problem.

BURG MOBILE

Way to preserve the evening Solano. Seeing factors like that is why I really like football. Also it was excellent to see Greemberg's at bat.

bob

Hopefully Dunn and Bell are gone next season.

SunnyDee

I would rather see the Marlins eat Bell's entire contract than see him pitch next season. He will be impossible to trade. Just send him to minors or get rid of him somehow. It is infuriating watching him blow games.

Stan M

LB, I assume that you were referring to the seat of my intellectual prowess! Those seats were great and worth the extra bucks if one only goes to one or two games a tear. Usually there are about 5 or 6 available in rows 2 and 3. We could all get together. However one is surrounded be tomahawk chops. Such racist prejudice is not to be taken lightly. Seriously, in the last of the ninth Dunn came in and Chipper was up. Dunn must have been shaking in his spikes. There was sheer bedlam, the place was actually shaking. It really was amazing.

The time Cody was hit in the mouth was a different occasion.

Lou

Laurel, Great 30 minutes talking with you on the phone yesterday. Beats the Hell out of blogging and facebook and texting.

My favorite scenario for the Braves' playoff game with the Cards would be for Chippy to strike out 4 times, game goes to extra innings and then he grounds into a DP with the bases loaded and one out in the 13th with Braves trailing by a run. Don't even need him to strain a groin running it out as that would be his last AB and the DL would no longer be such an important part of his curriculum vitae. I was really disappointed he did not come up with some type of bizarre way to end up on the DL this year. My all time favorites are the injury incurred while sleeping in the suite of a Four Seasons in Atlanta and the batting cage "attacking" him with a richochet. Our Chipper will be missed. It's important to get them eliminated as soon as possible because they are dangerous and I could not tolerate the Braves winning 2nd World Championship since 1958. The 2 the Braves have since 1953 are equivalent to what the Marlins have since 1997. Chop That!!!

Flav C.

For the sake of comparison, I'll post the NL Average stats for relievers, so we can try to match with the numbers our 5 key relievers posted this season. The stats are: ERA, BA, OBP, SO/9, SO/BB, WHIP.

ERA BA OBP SO/9 SO/BB WHIP
NL 3.78 .247 .324 8.5 2.35 1.336

Dunn 4.91 .283 .379 9.6 1.62 1.773

Webb 4.03 .295 .356 6.6 2.21 1.525

Gaudin 4.54 .272 .344 7.4 2.12 1.411

Bell 5.09 .282 .357 8.3 2.03 1.555

Cishek 2.69 .230 .327 9.6 2.34 1.304

Basically, the Marlins had 4 of its 5 relievers pitching way worse than NL Average and 1 guy, the youngest, and who was placed under the spot as a closer, pitching better than League Average.

The most telling stat here is the fact that Bell and Cishek pitched the exact number of innings this season, with results completely different.

Another mystery is Dunn: After being sent to Triple A, he came back on fire, and pitched 8 straight games without allowing a single hit or BB. And then all hell broke loose. On top of that, he was supposed to be the "lefty specialist": Right hitters batted .272 against Dunn and lefties...well, .293.

One stat I came up with and I like a lot because it puts WHIP on another perspective is CI (Clean Inning). Basically I look at the number of innings where a pitcher had an easy 1-2-3 outing. No hits or BBs allowed. That's basically what we expect from relievers, right?

Dunn pitched 44 innings and had 16 CI (36%)
Webb pitched 60.1 innings with 13 CI (21.6%)
Gaudin pitched 67.1 innings with 6.2 CI (9.2%)
Bell pitched 63.2 innings with 26.2 CI (41.4%)
Cishek pitched 63.2 innings with 27 CI (42.7%).

For comparison purposes, one of the best relievers in the AL, Fernando Rodney, pitched 74.1 innings, with 30.2 CI (40.6%). His ERA, a dismal 0.61.

Craig Kimbrell, arguably the best reliever in the NL, pitched 60.1 innings with 32.1 CI (53.4%). His ERA was a minuscule 1.02.

Relievers usually are not long term investments for a team. They come under a 1yr - 2yr contract. Unless they are young and under team control (cheap).
Because of this fact, they are expected to perform within league average or a bit better, or somewhere around those numbers. 4 of 5 of our relievers are way worse than league average and what I'm afraid of is that 1 of them was brought in under a long term (and expensive) investment - Bell. And another one is cheap and still under team control for another year (Dunn). They might be back to hunt us for another season.

I have the opinion that the Marlins should look for a bench player with a bad contract and try to negotiate Bell on a trade. Quid pro quo. i.e Get Jason Bay from the Mets. The Mets still owe him $ 33 mil over the next 2 years. Try to work something out and send Bell to NY. At least we would bring a true LF for a couple of years and there is no way he can bat worse than .165 again.

Send Webb and Gaudin away. Dunn too, even though I'm, quite sure they'll keep him.

Bring Ramos, Koehler, and Jennings to Spring training, along with Delaney and Caminero from the minors. Those two are gems of relievers in the minor leagues.

And finally bring a veteran reliever: Jason Grilli and Brett Myers are pitching really well this season and will be available thru free agency in 2013.

This bullpen can and must be fixed.

richiej

great stuff Flav

Stan M

Flav, look at Miller and the Hopper. Much better than our guys. Why were they moved for next to nothing? And one small thing. Choate was almost a throw in when we dumped Hanley. But I'll bet we would have 2-3 more wins if we had him for the difficult LH batters. He was missed far more than we realize.

I agree with everything you say above with one small maybe. If Dunn could be farmed out again, I'd keep him. One, he has little trade value. Two, the guy does have good "stuff" and I'd hate to just throw him away. That being said, I do not want him pitching in critical situations for ML team until/unless there is improvement.

richiej

Dunn and the rest of the bullpen probably need a pitching coach. They all have good stuff, it needs to be refined.

Speaking of refinement and other fine things, Samson was in the TV broadcast booth last night. He said that all in all, the first year in the new park was a success. Attendence could have been better. He did forget to mention the 15 people who came to a game just to see the tropical fish, and, the other 12 or so people who came to a game so that they could look out the windows in left field. Next year they should promote those things a bit more. Probably can double or triple those numbers.

laurelbowie

It all comes down to what many of us having been saying since before the Big Bang — the Fish need a pitching coach. They have too many guys, including Webb and Dunn, with very good stuff who can't seem to get the job done. When the Nats fired Saint Randy, the story out of Washington was that they didn't want him anywhere near their cadre of young pitchers for fear that he would mess them up so badly they'd never recover. Then the Marlins turn right around and snatch him up like he was a long-lost Renoir, which was par for the course. Wonder how long it will be before he screws up Eovaldi, Turner, Ramos and Koehler, among others. I hate to be one of those guys who flies into panic mode over the fate of a baseball team, but this has reached crisis proportions. It won't matter how they shuffle the bullpen or the starting rotation until they get a pitching coach who knows how to coach pitchers.
Great stats, Flav C. As you pointed out, Dunn was a total mess until he was sent down and got a little coaching, then came back up and looked unhittable for a while. Then, after a few weeks under St. Clair's tutelage, he totally disintegrated again. I'd hate to see the Marlins get rid of Dunn, Webb or any of their young pitchers until we see what they can do under a pitching coach who knows a screwball from a screwdriver.
Stan M,
Just to clarify. I wasn't talking about the seats you purchased at the game, I was referring to the seat you took with you.

Stan M

LB, I knew that. Should have started a new paragraph after the first sentence I guess. Thought my answer was appropriate, too now that you can recheck the post.

Stan M

Enough about Greenberg already. Nice gesture I guess, but to be frank, I don't see why it's such a big deal.

laurelbowie

Stan M,
I knew you knew. I just wanted to get in the last word. It would be fun for a bunch of us to get together at a game and see what we all look like after all the time we've spent chatting. And I agree that if you're going, you might as well get the best seats available (within reason). Of course, if we're going to Marlins Park, we could buy any seat in the house and move down behind home plate after the second inning because the place will be as empty as Elvis's grave next year.
Sadly, I've never looked forward to a Marlins season as much as I did this one, and I've never looked forward to the end of a season as much as I do this one.

Stan M

LB, those seats cost us $75.00. Paid more last year but price is based on drawing power of team. We get there at 5 PM when gates open and actually had more fun before the game actually started. One thing I came away with. Eovaldi has fantastic stuff. He made several hitters look foolish and from our vantage point, I saw several Brave hitters swing when the ball was already in the catcher's mitt. I kid you not when I say that he has #1 starter stuff. He's good enough now to go 10-10 next year, then watch out.

In the days of old, I used to go to Shea Stadium and buy the cheapest tickets, then go down to the box seat section to a certain usher I got to know and show my ticket with a twenty dollar bill ( that would be 40 or 50 today)and say, " I think I'm sitting down there". And we got great seats. Once got WORTV's box. If seat holders came, which was rare, he knew who usually came to his section, he simply moved us and we got more attention than the regular seat holders. I don't think that would work anymore.

laurelbowie

richiej,
I hadn't seen your post when I started typing mine and I wasn't trying to steal your thunder, but it's clear we agree on the need for a pitching coach. No matter how many times they reshuffle the deck in the bullpen, they're going to end up with a lousy hand as long as St. Elsewhere isn't elsewhere.
Also, the most disheartening thing to me about Samson's appearance in the broadcast booth was that he refused to commit to a desire to keep Stanton with the Marlins. When asked about the team's hopes of signing Stanton to a long-term contract, he mumbled something about nobody being untouchable. In other words, Lou's proposed trade with Detroit may actually be on the horizon.

laurelbowie

Anybody else see the barehanded catch that guy made in the stands to spare his girlfriend a trip to the plastic surgeon? That was actually more spectacular and more dramatic than anything I've seen on the field lately.

Camera Mike

That was a good catch Laurel, but did you see the kid in the left field seats backhand catch the foul ball. He couldn't have been any older the 11 or 12 and it was a catch some pros would have dropped. Marlins should check the child labor laws and see how well he can bat because we still need some fielders and he must be within our budget. Also we should mention Petersens sliding catch last night, was an impressive snag.

laurelbowie

Camera Mike,
I did see the kid's catch and it was incredible. I just mentioned the other one because it appeared to be a real life saver. Miniweenie interviewed the guy and he said it was the first time he'd ever taken his girlfriend to a ballgame. I hope he was duly rewarded for his gallantry.

Camera Mike

You are right that it was a life saver. She didn't move or cove up at all, if he missed the catch it would have hit her square in the face. Plus I also caught Samson's interview last night and almost got sick when the only topic he got defensive or emotional on was on whether the parks fences should be moved in. Not the dismal state of the team he helped create and how to fix it, or even the long term plans for Stanton, but about the fences. I think it shows his priorities are way out of whack.

richiej

laurelbowie, no offense taken. actually i am flattered to know others agree with some of my opinions. in addition to a real pitching coach, a batting coach should be high on the list of needs. For a couple of hundred thousand dollars, each coaching position can be greatly improved.

Lou

Look for the Stanton and Reyes to Detroit to go down sometime in the middle of 2013. The Tigers will have to eat Bell's contract--Bell eats everything else---and the Marlins WILL get back Boesch, Porcello, Berry, Santiago, Villareal and two guys currently on the Niagara Falls roster.

I remain a little perplexed that so many of you, who I can ascertain from writing ability have high IQ's, continue to agonize over this flotsam and jetsam. You know Samson possibly has some kind of problems related to physical stature envy. You know he bragged about the Marlins trading acuity---Triple Crown Winner and MVP for Hopper---why would you believe or care about anything he says. I'm surprised he doesn't walk around with hand stuck in his jacket like his idol.

Laurel, I'm no longer joking about the Reyes and Stanton thing. Reyes would love to play with Cabrera(who will be the reason the Tigers resign Sanchez--Team Venezuela) and a Jackson,Reyes, Cabrera, Fielder, Stanton and Victor Martinez top 6 would be pretty impressive.

Lou

Dear Loria, Samson, Beinfest and anyone else connected, would like to thank all you idiots(Stan, Sorry but that's what they are) who had anything to do with dealing a guy who just had a historic and epic season and personally drove a mediocre team into the playoffs. The Tigers have a leadoff hitter and a cleanup hitter to augment Miggy. They are pitiful at catcher, 2B, SS, LF, RF and DH. They have a TRUE ACE and a very good Number 2 starter and they also have a guy managing them who is a walking ad for Carcinogens. That is what they have and anyone who thinks Trout is the MVP should do a poll of American League pitchers and ask them who are they going to walk with the winning run in scoring position late in the game? The result should not surprise you.

I have followed baseball since 1956--when I started following the Tigers and there has never(Well, Steve Carlton in 72) been a greater player with a near total roster of culls surrounding him that said player drove into the playoffs. Miggy, it's a shame that you did not play for New York where the Eastern Seaboard Projection Network would have already established a place for you in the Hall.

Once again, THANK YOU, you idiots!! You gave the city of Detroit a great present.

laurelbowie

Miggy is in the lineup tonight. Good for him. We've seen what Hanley would do in Cabrera's situation.
Lou,
I think you're still joking, at least a little bit. Aren't you?
The Dodgers made it hard on everybody (except Andre Ethier) when they signed Ethier for five years, $85 million. That's nuts, of course. He's 30 years old and has more aches and pains than Grandma. McCutcheon got five years, $51 million and Starlin Castro, who has Stanton's agent, got 6 years, $60 million. If the Marlins could sign Stanton for like 7 years, $90 million, they'd be getting a bargain. Stanton would get some job security, in case he wanted to buy an iPad or something, and he'd be just 29 at the end of the deal, so he'd still have time to cash in on a monster free-agent contract if he stays healthy. Sounds like a win-win to me. In fact, it makes so much sense, Loria would probably never go for it. (Just for comparison, I recently signed for two years, $3.98.)
Anyway, thank goodness the Fish season is over — and thank goodness there are a couple of games on the tube so I don't have to watch the Presidential Debate tonight. Years ago, when I had to cover those things, I promised myself I'd never watch a Presidential Debate or a State of the Union Address, or wade through any other form of pigsh*t, unless somebody was paying me to do it.

Lou

Laurel, 45% of people on either side would not change their minds if preferred candidate came out wearing a dress, the 10% who have not made up their minds after 18 months of this should be forced to to take an EEG to test for presence of brain activity. All those clowns in Undecided Focus Groups employed by the networks are the equivalent of a class of kindergartners screaming "Look At Me!!! Look At Me."

Jane

Sat by Loria at the game last nite. His daughter sitting next to him was very friendly. Loria,not so much.

Camera Mike

Just watched the final Dodger game of the year and one of the worst things about them not making the playoffs is I have to wait until April to hear Vin Scully call a game.

Lou

A question for Samson--Should the Marlins have kept Cabrera or Ramirez? The sad thing is none of us would bet 10,000 that the Vertically Challenged One would get it right.

Let's get some nicknames for Samson--REMEMBER this is a FAMILY blog.

Lou

I'll start:

Mt. Ant Hill

The Diminutive Dilettante

Mr. Lucky

The Marathon Mangler

Camera Mike

The only name I want to hear him called is the former president of the Miami Marlins.

laurelbowie

Petty Theft.

Flav C.

Mini-Me

Poor Man's Napoleon

sugar daddy

Hey Jane...Loria doesnt have a daughter..that was his wife....

laurelbowie

The Wee Weasel.

JUAN YANES

GUILLEN PERFORMANCE AS MARLINS MANAGER WAS VERY POOR, LACK OF ACKNOWLEDGES OF BASEBALL FUNDAMENTALS, UNKNOWN THE MECHANIC OF THE NATIONAL LEAGUE (WHICH IS QUITE DIFFERENT TO THE AMERICAN LEAGUE)EXAMPLES: LOWEST SCORE RUN IN MOST GAMES DUE TO ERRONEOUS LINE-UP BATTING ORDER; HIGH PITCHING ERA DUE TO ERRONEOUS MANEUVER OF THE BULLPEN ( DUNN LOSE MORE THAN 15 GAMES WITH GO AHEAD SCORE)LACK OF TEACH HIM APPROPRIATE THROW OFF EACH BATTERS AND SO FORTH. MARLINS NEED A MORE INTELLIGENT PERSON TO FILL THIS HOLE; THE FANS DESERVE THAT.

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