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Third base (again) is top priority for Marlins

      Quick. Who was the last player to make as many as 130 starts at third base in one season for the Marlins?

      Time's up. The answer is Miguel Cabrera, who yesterday completed the first "Triple Crown" season in the majors since Carl Yastrzemski in 1967.

      How does that little nugget make you feel as you wake up from the nightmare that was the 2012 Marlins? Has there ever been a more awful trade involving a future Triple Crown winner? Why, yes. There actually was.

      The Cincinnati Reds dealt Frank Robinson after the 1965 season to the Baltimore Orioles for Jack Baldschun, Milt Pappas and Dick Simpson. And Robinson didn't wait five seasons -- five seasons for that trade-induced migraine to subside even a little -- to make Reds fans sick by nailing the hitting trifecta: home runs, batting average and RBI. Robinson went off in his very first season with the O's. Not only did he capture the Triple Crown, but the Orioles won the World Series that year and Robinson was the Series MVP.

        CabreraCabrera took over at the hot corner for the Marlins in 2006 after Mike Lowell, who had manned the position for seven years, was traded to Boston. Cabrera started 157 games at third in 2006 and 153 in '07 for the Marlins. In Cabrera's final season, the Marlins drafted third baseman Matt Dominguez, believing him to be their third baseman of the future and knowing that they had no intention of paying Cabrera superstar money. They were also tired of dealing with Cabrera's off-field habits, which later surfaced in Detroit.

       Third base has been an issue ever since. The Marlins have started 14 different players at third in the five seasons since trading Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for six humans.

       Take a look at this year-by-year chart showing the Marlins' third basemen since 2006 and the number of starts each of them made there:

        2006 -- Miguel Cabrera (157), Wes Helms (5)

        2007 -- Miguel Cabrera (153), Aaron Boone (5), Alfredo Amezaga (4)

        2008 -- Jorge Cantu (129), Helms (30), Dallas McPherson (2)

        2009 -- Emilio Bonifacio (82), Cantu (44), Helms (35), Andy Gonzalez (1)

        2010 -- Cantu (81), Helms (50), Chad Tracy (22), Bonifacio (4), Donnie Murphy (3), Hector Luna (2).

        2011 -- Greg Dobbs (84), Bonifacio (30), Helms (17), Matt Dominguez (13), Luna (10), Murphy (8).

        2012 -- Hanley Ramirez (89), Dobbs (30), Murphy (17), Gil Velazquez (15), Donovan Solano (8), Nick Green (3).

        Of course, the Marlins thought they had this whole third base thing figured out this season. They signed Jose Reyes and shoved Hanley Ramirez over to third, where he played all of 89 games before he and the remainder of his contract ($38 million) were dealt to the Dodgers.

        Look, Cabrera is certaintly no Gold Glover. His dWAR (defensive wins above replacement) was a minus 0.2. Among third basemen who started as many as 81 games, or half the season, only three finished with a poorer defensive figure: Hanley Ramirez (-0.4), Alex Rodriguez (-0.4) and Chris Johnson (-0.7).

        When it comes to finding a solution at third base, there are no easy answers for the Marlins as they head into the offseason. They have identified third base as their top priority, with improvement to the bullpen next on the list. But the list of prospective free agents at third appears rather sickly (Scott Rolen, anyone?).

        Most likely, the Marlins will look to acquire a third baseman through a trade -- the same manner in which the Tigers acquired this year's Triple Crown winner.  

 

Comments

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JUAN YANES

MARLINS SHOULD THINK NOW # 1 IN RETAIN 1ST BASE PLAYER CARLOS LEE (THEIR BEST RBI HITTER) THE ONLY STEADY FOURTH
IN THE LINE UP.- MORRISON SHOULD PLAY LEFT FIELD WHEN HE COME BACK. # 3. BONIFACIO CAN PLAY 3RD BASE SUCCESFUL #4. RUGGIANO AND GORKIS HERNANDEZ CAN SHARE THE CENTER FIELD.
#5. RELIEVERS DUNN AND BELL SHOULD BE TRADE. # 6. ALL COACHING STAFF SHOULD BE REMOVED, NEITHER DESERVE REMAIN
INTO THE TEAM FOR NEXT SEASON. NEXT LINE UP SHOULD BE: #1 AS LEADOFF JOSE REYES # 2. BONIFACIO #3. STANTON # 4 C. LEE #5. MORRISON #6. RUGGIANO # 7. BRANDLY # 8. SOLANO

Camera Mike

Hi everyone just thought I'd ask a quick question. Would you be happy or willing to trade Josh Johnson for prospects if our trading partner also agreed to take the full contracts of Heath Bell and John Buck?

I would be because with the team wanting to reduce payroll they are going to have to trade either JJ or Nolasco and Josh would probably bring higher prospects in return. Plus getting Bell's and Buck's contracts off our books would help reduce the payroll without getting rid of players who produced this past season or show the ability to do so next year.

laurelbowie

Camera Mike,
Interesting question, but it's kinda like asking, "Would you trade your wife for a tractor?" The answer is, "Show me your tractor and I'll let you know."
I'd definitely trade JJ for the RIGHT prospects, because he's never going to be the ace he once was. But as we all know, the Marlins have a habit of unloading their stars for the Dallas Traherns and Mike Rabellos of this world just to save a peso. So even with the added bonus of upchucking Buck and Bell, it's an iffy proposition.
I'd hate to see JJ become the Marlins' latest Ermintrude Inch.

Camera Mike

Good point perhaps a better question, at least as making one think goes, is would you trade Loria for Frank McCourt?

stan M

Camera Mike,
I think your question above can be divided into two parts. Bell is gone even if his contract must be eaten. There might be a player revolt if he is kept. Buck only has one year left on his contract and can be an expensive but competent mentor and #2 catcher until one of our 2 catching prospects is ready in 2014.

Trading JJ or Nolasco does make sense but, in my opinion, not for prospects. Here's why. LoMo is 25 at 1B and still has much upside. Salerno will be 27 at 2B. Reyes is still under 30. Stanton will be 23. Bono will be 27. Duggiano will be 31 and Coghlan 27 and might still be a valuable player despite Lou's hysterics. That leaves 3B. We simply don't know anything about Cox because Loria saved a few quid by not bringing him up. This is our most immediate hole. Although out minor league system is far from solid throughout, Yelich should be available late in 2013 or 2014 at the latest and can replace either Ruggiano or LoMo if necessary. Alex Fernandez tore through A ball and should have the same call up time as Yelich.

My point is, the starting lineup is either young or entering their prime years so more prospects whould be superfluous at this point. Considering the poorer than anticipated attendance and Loria's proclivity toward that of a mendicant, a free agent signing is almost certainly not going to happen. Therefore trading JJ or Nolasco makes perfect sense, but for a competent 3B rather than prospects. We would still have 4 competent starters with the 5th slot temporarily filled by a LeBlanc or Sanabia (I would resign Zambrano if cheap enough and a new pitching coach is brought in) until Alex Fernandez is promoted. Winning anything in 2013 is unrealistic. Finishing at .500 is a more realistic goal.

stan M

LB, how about a trophy tractor? Even chubby Loria seems to have acquired a fine riding machine.

laurelbowie

Stan M,
That's funny. But mark my word, she's going to dump the tubby tightwad one day — and send him a John Deere letter!

richiej

lots of good trade/roster ideas. i think it might be a long time before loria is willing to carry a $100 million payroll, if ever.

regarding a trade for loria, how about horse and chicken manure, enough for one treatment to the outfield grass, straight up. throw in samson to sweeten the deal...or just throw him in.

Where Is Jerome Brown??

Why am I considered "hysterical", why in the Hell aren't people who still consider a certain guy as valuable viewed as "demented"?? Why don't we just let it play out and see who was "hysterical" and who was "demented", I have suggested that Laurel be the arbiter for a little friendly bet about Mr Pie Man's future. I made the parameters of the bet so friendly towards Wounded Knee that it would be silly to not engage IF you thought the man could really play. I don't like certain people because I have an abiding dislike of silly adults who jump around throwing pies
and then once they are injured they parlay that into service time on the DL. Now I understand how my displeasure for Sara Lee could be seen as "hysterical" under normal circumstances,however, these are not normal circumstances as some people STILL believe that Mr Opposite Field Flare can still play. I remain willing to engage in a Governor's style bet---Think of a Maine lobster being bet against some New Orleans Filet Gumbo in a Patriot-Saints Super Bowl--that would be very tilted towards the guy taking Oh My, Where has My Stroke Gone.

Where Is Jerome Brown??

I'm betting "Where Is Jerome Brown" is a name Lou uses on the Hurricane blog to ridicule a school whose football program may soon go the way of Perry Wallace. Truman, did I get that right?

laurelbowie

Mr. Brown,
I'm still racking my (alleged) brain to come up with suitable stakes for your proposed wager. It's difficult to determine something appropriate without knowing exactly who the combatants will be, along with their likes, dislikes and secret sexual fantasies.

Stan M

Lou, I cannot speak for others, but I think you are histerical because you can't seem to let up when you get on a subject. There is no doubt that I enjoy tweaking your ego once in a while but that shouldn't be a problem for you. You have enough ego to keep blasting on the same two topics for the entire off season. If it isn't Coghlan, it's the Carbera trade. By this time a mouse in the attic clearly knows that you don't like Coghlan. And Iranian desenters all realize that the Carbera trade was, in retrospect, a mistake. But, Lou, it's time to move on. I know you are not malicious and in many ways, I like you. But it's time to give those two areas a rest or at least moderate your rants. Isn't that why you left many months ago and then returned with apologies?

Stan M

LB, I put up a post after your wonderful John Deere retort but it was pulled; probably with good reason. Just want to say that you are a gem. You could easily write for a late night commedian. A John Deere letter! Precious!

Camera Mike

Stan,

Those are good points but I was more interested in would people be willing to accept a bad trade if it involved ridding the team of Bell and Buck, as well as their salaries which would free up some of the small amount Loria will be willing to spend next year, as opposed to what trade would people like to see the Marlins make.

I guess I must admit that I'm still bitter and angry over the performance of Bell and Buck, and the amount of payroll they will cost us next year and was just venting in the hopes they will be gone in every imaginable way.

Though like you if we are to trade Johnson, which I feel we will, I would prefer we get an everyday big league third baseman in return.

richiej

not entirely fair to throw Buck under the same bus as Bell. Yes, Buck has been a disappointment, but whenever he is interviewd, or when on camera in the dugout, he seems to be a very nice guy and probably a clubhouse asset. True, $6 million a year has been a lot for the miniscule payroll (until 2012), but I have not heard that any pitcher would rather pitch to another catcher, or that anybody had something bad to say about him. with all the terrible at bats Buck has had, he appears to be very level headed, plus I think he is the players rep for the marlins. On the other hand, I have not heard anybody speak up for Bell.

raylene

Bell and Josh J to Toronto for B Lawrie. Case closed.
I think I know laurelbowie...used to work with him. We called him Possum. If I'm correct, he's super smart and super nice. laurelbowie, r u our Possum?

Camera Mike

It is true that Buck is not at all the locker room pariah that Heath Bell is, but I still feel strongly he needs to go. It wasn't just his batting that left Marlins fans frustrated, his catching left a lot to be desired. He gave up 7 past balls, 7 errors, while caching only 18 steal attempts and giving up 48 steals. Yes some steals are also on the pitcher but he only caught 27.3% of base stealers this season and is at 24.8% for his career. He had one good season a few years ago in Toronto and is still living off of that.

It is also obvious the club plans on going with Brantly next season and for a team that will have a low payroll it doesn't make sense to pay a back up catcher $6.5 million. Also if the team is moving on to a new catcher we should replace him as player rep. Though that decision would be more about a new player taking his position and not about him being a poor rep as I have no reason to believe that is the case.

From the I interviews I have seen and his camera time on "The Franchise" he does seems to be an increadably nice, intelligent, and well respected man. Because of that I do wish him the best of luck in the rest of is career (while I do not feel the same way on Bell), but I think the teams needs to move on from him and make getting rid of his contract one of this offseasons priorities.

LOU

Stan, My buddy, people react differently. See, I would not have been upset by the guy who bothered you because I would have had no respect for him and would have ignored it. Now,if you ,who I respect, spoke in a derogatory way about me, I would have responded. Since I respect you and take you seriously I will respond to what I deem to be a lingering fantasy. Think of Laurel insisting that Tom Koehler and Sanabia might someday make fine 3 and 4 starters. That would drive me nuts and I would not let it go,however if Drag Queen from Davie or Miramar Myrtle says it--I don't give a blank. I told you I would NEVER bring up Sara's name. You admit that you had the intention of agitating me by invoking it and you succeeded. But then you express surprise that your words worked.

Once again IF I never read Coghlin's name----and by that I DON'T mean any passing mention of it----associated with the words "possible contributor" or the like, I will NEVER mention his name. However if you wave Betty Crocker in front of my face, as you would a cape in front of a bull, I will respond. In this instance who do you think should be deemed as the agent provacateur?

Went to a GREAT sushi restaurant in Hendersonville. 644 Main Street or some such number. EXTRAORDINARY and you just know that I know "EXTRAORDINARY" when I taste it.

Stan M

Camera Mike, let's for the sake of your argument say that Buck must go. I think you would agree that no one would assume his salary of 6 million (which might actually be higher knowing Loria's tendency to backload contracts). Therefore the Marlins would have to eat at least half, and probably even more in order to dump him. At that point we would still need a veteran presence to help Brantly along in his first full year. That would cost something and that expense, must in a sense be added to the dollars lost in dumping Buck. By the time we are finished, we saved little and brought in a new presence who might or might not enjoy playing second fiddle. I agree with all above who point out Buck's deficiences as a player, but also agree that he is probably a plus in a troubled clubhouse. It should also be noted that he was reported to be an excellent mentor for Bradley and that this will be the last year of his contract. So I think it best to keep him until 2014 when one or both of our catching prospects should be ready to advance.

richiej

StanM and Camera Mike. Great comments. Refreshing to read insightful and intelligent posts.

Camera Mike

Stan,

I do admit getting rid of Buck would not be all positive but it is still a move I want to see. In my orginal post on a trade I proposed attaching Buck to a trade involving JJ ala the Dodgeres having to take on Beckett in order to get Adrian Gonzalez and I feel that would be the only way to trade him. I also believe such a trade with Bell would be impossible as I don't think any team is desperate enough to get Johnson that they would take Bell and his 2 years at 9 million per. Anyway though back to Buck. His loss of leadership in the locker room may be a hit to Brantly and I do know we have enough trouble already developing young players, but with the lower payroll sure to come next year I think we may be able to use the money from a Buck trade to bring in a journeyman back up catcher and have some money left over to help the bull pen. Of course my support of a trade of this sort is dependent on who we recieve and until I see that I can't fully support it. Though I would like to see the team look into this possibility.

LOU

Dear Camera Mike, You can ask people on this Blog questions and for the most part you will get more salient responses that you would from the Marlins' Three Stooges, however, you should always remember that these guys are--Oh Oh Here It Comes----MORONS!!! Therefore since they don't believe in credible responses to baseball issues, at some point as a follower of the team you must wash your hands of the dysfunction. There is no reason for you to suffer this garbage just because you initially had an affinity for an organization. You should not be miserable while a person who follows the Detroit Tigers is happy. The,YES!!! MORONS, who are the Florida Marlins?Morons are not worthy of your respect, consideration or support. Make yourself feel better--Move On!!!! Why wait until Mike Stanton gets traded to the Tigers, yankees, Dodgers or Angels for Mike Rabelo, Burt Badenhop, Dallas Trehern and the ashes of Clem Labine.

laurelbowie

Lou,
There's an amendment in there somewhere that gives Camera Mike the right to suffer just like the rest of us, and I think you should allow him to enjoy his suffering in peace. Furthermore, you should be ashamed of yourself for switching skateboards in the middle of a varial heel flip. Once a Fish fan, always a Fish fan, I say.
Go Nats! — but only until next year, when the umps start the Marlins season with the traditional pronouncement, "Gentlemen, start your suffering."

Camera Mike

Lou, it seems you have some rather strong feelings on my rooting for the fish. I sure hope I am over reading the emotions in your post and that you don't really care that much about what team I choose to pull for.

As to why I am a Marlins fan. I was born and raised in Miami and have loved baseball my whole life. Therefore when the city was awarded an expansion team I was ecstatic and have been a fan ever since and know I will be for years and years to come.

Living in Los Angeles I have seen Laker fans berate Clipper fans (yes there really are Clipper fans, just like Marlins fans they are few and far between) about moving on and cheering for a winner. I'm happy to say most Clipper fans stuck by their convictions and true feelings and now have a competitive team to cheer for. And don't forget for years Donald Sterling was just a bad of owner as Loria but something seems to have gotten through to him.

Also there were years, especially the mid to late 90's or after the 2003 season where one could have told Tiger fans to end their misery and move on. If someone said that to you at the time would you have found a new team to follow?

I am a Marlins fan and will continue to be so. From reading my posts on this blog you must know I have no respect or care for Loria and the FO, but I know that one day he will no longer be able to squeeze a profit out of the franchise and sell the team. When that glorious day does come I will still be a true fan and not a band wagon jumper.

Stan M

Lou, I mentioned above that I sometimes enjoy tweaking your ego and never do it to others. Actually it has nothing to do with your baseball opinions. Rather I do it because of your propensity to look down upon virtually everyone, but usually not those on this blog. Some evening when you are bored, look back on your posts over this past season and see what I mean. Above you refer to the Marlin FO as morons. That is commendable but at other times you sound like you are a superior being looking down upon the great unwashed masses. As I said above, you are not malicious, but it still took a long time to convince my son (Stan III) that you aren't really Alex under a pseudonym. The worst example to me was when you said you were at a game screaming at someone on the field and a fan offered to buy you a beer. You said you refused saying you only drink expensive beer. That was the epitome of snobbery in my opinion and beneath you. I realize that I can be a pedantic and a judgemental bore and probably have no business posting this. Others might jump on me for it. I'm no psychiatrist, but something just rubs me the wrong way.

Did you notice that police officers are giving out flyers to Tiger fans telling them that Detroit is a dangerous city and to enter at their own risk?

laurelbowie

raylene,
I've been pondering this, but I'm sorry, I don't know who you are. Why are you trying to make people think I'm a nice guy? You can't be a girl, because I've never met a girl who knows who Brett Lawrie is. If you really know me, give me a clue or call me on my cell phone. If you're a member of the paparazzi trying to draw me out of hiding, forget it.
Lou,
This is honestly not a put-down of anybody, any place or anything. But eating sushi in Hendersonville seems a little like eating grits in California, eating caviar in Wyoming or eating sweetbreads in Mississippi. I, as they say, prefer my sushi southern-fried.

LOU

Dear Camera Mike, Be rest assured I was being facetious and I don't really care if you root for the old Hollywood Stars, and I most assuredly quit paying attention to the Detroit Tigers when they quit respecting themselves as an organization. I feel the same way about the Detroit Lions who have won 1!!! playoff game since the introduction of the Edsel. Following a team is like having a favorite restaurant. If the restaurant was really good, but the chef quit and the kitchen became a health hazard, I am under no self imposed mandate to continue eating there. I choose not to eat anything the Marlins are dishing out and if the Tigers start serving slop again I will "abandon" them. Loyalty is a 2 way street. If people choose to make themselves miserable by taking on the mantle--Not Mickey--of good FANaticS that is their business. As far as Stan, and his now becoming near dangerous obsession with everything I do and post, I must take solace in the near 50 miles seperating us.As far as the "beer" incident, that was a joke and that guy now e-mails me nearly every day and has invited my wife and I to second round of the playoffs IF the Nats make it.I love Stanley's astute analysis of me. Maybe he can come to Greenville on any Thursday when the radio show does a remote from a restaurant. He will be able to witness first hand how I'm despised and reviled by the crowd. I will even put both Stanleys on the dais with a microphone and let Stan 1 tell a baseball story--That I ALWAYS enjoy. Might have to wait until football season is over because everyone here is preoccupied with Clemson and South Carolina and care not a twit about MLB. You are welcome any Thursday. WCCP FM Voice of the Clemson Tigers. The remote is at Twin Peaks Restaurant on Woodruff Rd, i mile east of Exit 52 on US 85. 3:00 to 7:00 I'll buy you some NON Budweiser, Coors or Miller.

LOU

By the way, I will accept any invitation anyone can proffer to go to a city where I can get on the air and talk to a sizeable audience lke that streching from Greenville to Spartanburg to Clemson to about 50 miles from Atlanta. I acn assure Stan that many more people will hear him than read us on this Blog.Plus the host and I each can't tolerate the now departed Larry Wayne "Chipper" Jones of the Bolles School in jacksonville, Florida. Do you think when he is 85, he will still be "Chipper" or Larry?

Laurel, You are of course invited as well. A newspaper man who has known your cast of characters would be very interesting. Will need a whole hour with you in studio.

LOU

Detroit IS an extremely dangerous city you should not enter without knowing exactly where you ar and how you will exit,

In another news flash, Afghanistan has some severely challenging mountain passes and ethnic tribes who do not look highly upon intruders.

I feel better having issued these alerts. i would go to Detroit over Afghanistan but not by myself and not without On Star and some SEALS.

LOU

You know, I would probably be okay leaving the neighborhood around Comerica if I was with Cabrera.Those Triple Crowns and MYPs give you some street cred. I'm not hanging with Rabelo, Trahern dela Cruz, Miller or Maybin. That would be ugly. Maybe we could get Samson to do a little road work down Michigan Ave. at 3:00 in the morning.

LOU

Camera Mike, Don't bknow your age. Maybe you have time to wait Loria out. As far as "bandwagon jumpers", I really feel sorry fot those 103 year old Cub FANaticS who started following the Cubs when they were 8. Only 95 years of crap, but what the Hell, they were born in Chicago and stayed loyal.Sad that your place of birth can consign you to misery. Born in Skokie--Screwed. Born in Manhatten----You get to feel so good about yourself as a person. This is when we need a real psychiatrist to consider the pro and cons of not only living vicariously through actions of others BUT living vicariously through the actions of others who aren't very good at what they do. I consider it strange but maybe the medical profession would disagree.

LOU

Laurel I hope I have said nothing worthy of having a fatwa leveled on the blog.

LOU

Thinking I'm Alex would be similiar to comparing Anton Chekov with Al Capp.

LOU

Hope you are satisfied. The adrenaline has kicked in and if it wasn't 47 outside I'd run another 5 miles. By the way, EVERYONE over 60 should gat a Nuclear Stress Test could save your life. If I would have known this Socialist Medicare was so cheap and comprehensive in its coverage, I could have saved a couple of thousand by waiting 2 months. Also have your colonoscopies and blood workups done. Don't want to lose ANY of you!!!

LOU

Okay!! Good Night!! I'm going to watch Game Changer again or Horrible Bosses for the 9th time,Kevin Spacey is great.

Stan III

I don't post here much, but I read this blog everyday, follow the sports writers on twiiter, read the internet articles much like everyone else. Sometimes I see a post, and I start in on something and then realize, wow, you sound like a real jerk, or it's just not that interesting. I don't know why my father would say It took a long time to convince me Lou wasn't ALEX, I believe he misspoke. I was speaking in jest, saying, I'm not so sure Lou isn't alex, alluding to the similarities of your posts. After reading the above, I had to laugh, because there are certainly traces of ol' Alex up in there. I'm sorry Lou, I have a hard time understanding where you're coming from. I like the comparison of a team and a good restaurant, which then goes south. Do you feel the same way about a player? When Cabrera ages and his numbers decline will your love for him subside and simply toss him and your memories to the wayside? Same with a woman right? You are not the same quality as when I met you, buh-bye. I'm exagerating here obviously, but not by much. Loyalty says a lot about a person, and so does being a front runner. I will always have a special place in my heart for the Marlins, as I still do for the Mets, a team a grew up watching. I see the logo, it takes me back to my youth, and remembering the glory years of being a kid and going to Shea. My long winded post isn't supposed to be about all the above, I'm setting the table to say this....I too know people in the Media (in Kansas City) and was a golfing/beer drinking buddy with the Royals 3rd base coach, now AA manager of the KC Royals minor league team. When I'd see this KC radio personaliy, or email the show, it was always in praise of what they were doing. There were a few competing shows, and I just happened to love his. I still listen in via the computer when I can. As he became familiar with me, and my systematic dismantaling of his competition, he sent me a messgae back, and said, Thanks for the kind words, but our shows are completely opposite. I have more of GM perspective, his is a fan show. It hit me like a ton of bricks, yet was so obvious, but I didn't see it. The show I loved offered insight, perspective, analysis, and suggestions. The callers are more spohisticated, they were fans, but on a different level. The other show is a bunch of "fans" expressing themselves with great words like IDIOT, or STUPID, but never offer much more. I see the same thing on this blog, often in your posts, Lou. I don't really like or appreciate them. Hence the comparison of good ol ALEX. I don't know why you continue to "eat" at the Marlin restaurant if the food sucks. Your posts are so negative, I can't for the life of me understand how such a health conscious person would continue to hold on to such negative feelings for a franchise you are over. Why post here? You don't care right? The restaurant was even remodeled. It's not the smae place you came after your kids crappy violin recital. "Fans" certainly have a right to express themselves and say this sucks, that sucks, I hate so and so...It gets redundant to me, but they are fans. I love to read peoples suggestions for the team, or their analysis. Both are fans, and I can relate to that. But you're not even a "fan" anymore are you? Why are you here? To promote a radio show? I work near Greenvile, and could easily listen....but why would I? To hear a rant about how good Cabrera is? To hear how the Marlins suck? Maybe if the restaurant of Lou started serving up some good interesting food, more people would take notice. A simple quick search on the blog can pull up every post by each author. I guess you consider it odd for someone to re post something to show you where you were wrong. I did it to read your apology, and how you will be different this go around. People don't change, sometimes the food and waiters do, but people don't. You are what your record says you are, and yours is there for the reading. I work near Greenville, I'd be more than happy to listen to your show live, but I don't want to jump through the rediculous hoops of calling some bar and knowing some code word to say to the bartender to have him put you on the bat phone.
-Stan III

Flav C.

From a business stand-point, I don't see the Marlins eating up all those contracts (Bell, Buck, Ozzie) and letting them go. It is a lot of money and we can say whatever we want about Loria's baseball knowledge skills, but he knows how to make money.

Buck had his worst season ever. He will be free agent after this next season, so he knows it is time to improve his numbers. Also, looking from a statistical point of view, 2013 is a rebound year for him and the Marlins can use him smartly against left-handed starters and against NL starters that he's had success since 2011. So as a back up catcher, the Marlins can and should use him in these circumstances. As far as his fielding, it is up to par with the likes of Posey and Wieters.

As far as Bell and Ozzie, one of the two will go. Probably the one who does more harm to the team, and in this aspect, it is a toss up. Bell is a liability on the field, and Ozzie outside of the field.

But I'm sure Loria will look back and realize that in the trade for Ozzie, he let go of a really good pitching prospect on Jhan Marinez, who is thriving in AAA with the White Sox and has already pitched a few innings in the majors.

The truth is, whatever move the Marlins does to trade one of those pieces, it will not be a win-win situation. Any team will ask the Marlins to eat up most of their salaries AND ask for minor league pieces to go with it.

I would not trade JJ and Nolasco right now, unless it is for the right piece. They will both be free agents in 2014 so they will do everything they can to increase their trading value now in 2013.

Flav C.

From Nick Cafardo, Boston Globe:

"Josh Johnson, RHP, Marlins — Despite some talk out of Florida that the Marlins won’t deal Johnson, who can become a free agent after 2014, the 28-year-old will be trade bait. The Marlins would likely get a boatload back from teams such as Baltimore, Toronto, Boston, Kansas City, Minnesota, Texas, and the Dodgers. The Red Sox were interested at the trade deadline. The 69-win Marlins look as if they’re cleaning house again and they, like Cleveland, could be a good trading partner for the Red Sox."

And since we talk a lot about the importance of having a good hitting coach, I thought this piece of article (Nick Cafardo again) very interesting:

"Chili Davis, batting coach, A’s — It’s amazing how you either click or don’t with batting coaches. What Davis has done with A’s hitters this season is remarkable. Davis was in the Red Sox employ at Pawtucket, but the Sox couldn’t keep him from joining the A’s. His recommendation to get Josh Reddick from the Sox, predicting he would hit for power, has really fueled the A’s season."

LOU

Dear Stan 3, The call to the "bar" was to get Laurel's number and had nothing to do with a "bat line" but rather to be able to talk to an intelligent person and avoid the Blog. It's not my radio show, I just contribute and am known for my contributions. The show is probably more intelligent than most sports show with the exception of too much discussion of high school football recruiting. I NEVER turn against players because they age and lose skills. I am grateful for what they have given. I continue to "eat" at the Marlins restaurant because it has become so amusing, not in a sadistically amusing way but rather an incomprehensible way. The idea of people believing things will change, with no evidence for that premise is borderline pathological. The host of these shows in Greenville enjoy me being inflammmatory and then after the people see me at remotes they know it was basically like pro wrestling and I lose my persona. I will not give more lip service to your dad being a good man as I have already done that in abundance and even told the Herald that people who assailed him should be neutralized. I believed him to be playing a game with the Coghlin stuff--how could I have thought anything else, The man barely was functional in the PCL where nearly everyone hits .330---so I played back everytime I thought he was trying to elicit a response. Not to sound pompous,however, if you know me and talk to me, you like me.The smartest guy on this blog will vouch for that. To misconstrue verbiage on a blog as a window into someone's head or soul is somewhat silly. I welcome you any Thursday to come into Twin Peaks between 3:00 and 7:00, you will have a good time and meet some intelligent people and any "rants" will be done in the spirit of fun. I believe you would enjoy my rants on fan behavior at sporting events, the Napoleonic Complex of Nick Saban, the Choir Boy image of Mark Richt, the craziness of NASCAR, the "genius" of Tony LaRussa, steroids, FANaticS and a whole bunch of topics. I promise you one thing #3, you will walk out wondering--"Why did I dislike that guy?" If not, I'll buy you 4 beers---GOOD microbrewery beers. I should warn you the waitresses at Twin Peaks are somewhat Hooterish in their apparel. This is not meant as a promotion for the show. You would be somewhat surprised how few people in the Upstate of South Carolina read the Herald Baseball Blog. Stan, I hope you note that I rarely engage in psychological evaluations of the people who participate on this blog. If I thought anyone on this Blog was capable of compiling a diagnosis that would qualify me for DSM cClassification, I would be worried. As it stands now, if Laurel calls me out I will worry. The others not so much. Of course I speak to Laurel on a somewhat frequent basis, when he is not floating on the Columbia River, and I would say he has a better insight into me than most.

LOU

Dear Stan 3, I forgot to add. It most assuredly does not require a rant from me to demonstrate how good Miguel Cabrera plays the game. Looking forward to seeing you. Come up to the table where the host sits in back of the restaurant and ask for Lou. I'll be there after 3:30. You are obviously functional and working and I would not expect you until later. If you tell me you are coming, I will stick around. I am serious about your dad doing some memorabilia stuff.

LOU

As a concession to reconciliation this is my last sentence that contains the name Miguel Cabrera. No matter what!!! Bookmark it or whatever phrase is used to go back and find it if needed.

I will actually enjoy Guillen receiving 3 years salary for doing nothing. I hold him not at all responsible for this debacle. I believe the perfect replacement would be Eduardo Perez or if Andre Dawson has a son, he would be also be appropriate. Maybe Loria will pull a Ted Turner and hire himself or Samson as the skipper. The only thing I'm sure of is the continuation of hair-brained player personnel moves, penurious motivations and idiotic pronouncements. It's always fun in Fish Land. Next year the 5th Army will be able to conduct manuevers in right field with no risk of injuries to civilians.

Is there any player personnel move that would enable anyone to just cut the cord and move on? I'm assuming the move of Stanton for prospects would be the only thing. That will occur. It is 2 years away. That will be Loria's final shot across the bow.

Stan M

After wading through all of the "I am Lou soap opera", (I was amazed at how many jumped to his defence)there were some legitimate baseball questins asked by the ever reliable Flav. Personally, I would trade one of the two, but not both. The stat heads will tell us all about JJ's hidden accomplishments. Nonetheless, the guy was 8-14. I wonder if LaBlanc couldn't go 8-14, for in my elderly blissfulness, I still think that wins are important. Pennants are still decided by the team with the best winning percentage, not the most WARs and that is how it should be. And Flav, any hitting coach is preferble at this juncture. As to your Bell or Ozzie going, it has to be Bell. Ozzie is the lesser of the two evils, especially since he now has his player's support.

Marlin Fan

Wow this blog has fallen off ..... Stan I agree with you about Buck for one more yr . I dont think JJ is done . 8-14 is not indicative of how ge pitched with one of the worse run supports in the majors . Yes he probably is our most " enticing " trade bait .
Anyone see Werth's catch the other night , robbing a Hr and almost doubling the guy off of first ?....... Lincecum doesn't get a start , wow hrs fallen off for a two time Cy Young winner. ....... Ichiro having a great series so far . ....... I like Coco's " basket catch" and then"tweeting" about it later , incredible .

Flav C.

Agree with Marlin Fan. If I'm not wrong, Clark posted here that JJ had one of the worst run supports in the league: 2 runs/game. No wonder Ricky usually has a better W-L performance than JJ, even with a close to 5 ERA. His run support is around 4/game.

Lou

"The blog has fallen off" because it is rarely updated. And I'm not blaming Clark. What is there to discuss? It's obvious they will shut down spending. The best prospects are still a September callup away. There is still no tangible news as to how injured players will return--nor should there be. We know who the prospects are--It's not like we are looking at the Nats or Royals lists of "Top 20 Prospects." There should be nobody summarily dumped for nothing--with the exception of Bell---this off season as nobody is at a really high arbitration level. We all know Johnson will be gone for next to nothing if he makes it back by end of expiring deal. We have Stanton for 3 more years. Our outfielders still consist of Petersen, Hernandez, Cousins. Ruggiano and Solano are under club control for awhile. Bonifacio will reinjure already fragile thumb because he will not change the way he slides. As Blog story said we have NO third baseman or one on horizon. We have no viable closer candidate. We have a disenchanted and/or largely dismissive fan base that will shrink revenues at every level and especially merchandising. There are about 20 people who really care about the Marlins and they are on this blog. Of course they extend from Malibu to Flagstaff to the Carolinas to Perth, Australia for all I know. Therefore they will probably not make up a 20 person increase in season ticket base. We are left to speculate about the likes of Buck and the desirability of his being allowed to farther increase pension vesting

Clark, come to think of it, you are doing just fine.

Lou

Stan 3, If you have access to a radio, tune in to 104.9 between 3:05 and 3:30 tomorrow and I'll offer you a proper invitation to join us at the remote. I should be the first caller. Host's name is Walt Deptula, and NO that is not promoting a radio station to people who live nowhere near the area. I guarantee you will need to try very hard to not enjoy it. Not as good as a Ralph Kiner and Bob Murphy post game show but still fun.

Camera Mike

Marlin Fan, I do agree on JJ not being done because like others have said his low run supports shows he pitched better then just his record would indicate. He started the year poorl but put is some great games as the season went on and I think he will be strong next year as he won't be returning from a long then usual offseason due to injury. As well it's going to be a contract year and I think he'll show his worth. Unfortunately I think he'll be doing it for another team because as you say he is our most enticing trade bait and Loria doesn't have a history of keeping players in contrat years.

Also since you mentioned Ichiro did you see his dance around Matt Wieters for a run? He still has incredible reflexes, and one has to wonder if he played his whole career in the majors if he'd be chasing down Rose's all time hit record.

Stan M

Camera Mike, from a personal point of view I like JJ and think he's a good teammate who never complains, etc. However, even when he was great, his pitch counts too often forced him from games too early and this often cost him dearly. This coming year has to be one of transition and as it is the last year of his contract, a trade from that prospective alone seems reasonable. Lastly, an awful lot of major league pitchers can go 8-14. So my conclusion would be to move him, but for a player who can immediately fill our hole at 3B.

Much has been written here pro and con about Beinfest; mostly con. In my opinion, he is sort of in the same position that Cashman was with the Yankees a couple of years ago. Whether he has great talents or not, anything he does, or tries to do can be stymied by too many others within the FO, or more dangerously, by our munificent owner. I think he should lay down an ultimatum, either give me the responsibility to do my thing, or fire me. Any other opinions?

Lou

Stan 3, Forml invite issued today at 3:32. Would have given a shout out to whom you work for but I didn't know the name. We can do that tomorrow. Mentioned death of Alex Karras today--a really good man.

Lou

I forgot who posted Beinfest's background. It was done awhile back. From what I remember he should probably not offer any ultimatums that include the words "or fire me." Would be similiar--but not exactly the same---to Samson saying "or kick me out of the family."

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