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Crazy 8th: Mike Redmond dissects decision-making in decisive inning

WASHINGTON -- Acknowledging that Wednesday's eighth inning left plenty of room for second-guessing, manager Mike Redmond addressed some of the thinking that went into his use of the bullpen in last night's 10-7 loss to the Nationals.

First, a quick recap. With the Marlins leading 7-6, Redmond called on Carlos Marmol to pitch the 8th. The sequence of events:

1) Jose Lobaton flied to left.

2) Nate McLouth hit by pitch.

3) Denard Span beats out bunt and both runners advance a base on Derek Dietrick's throwing error.

4) With first base open, Redmond elects to have Anthony Rendon walked intentionally, loading the bases.

5) Jayson Werth belts Marmol's second-pitch fastball for a grand slam.

On the reasoning behind his decision to go with Marmol instead of A.J. Ramos in the 8th:

Redmond: "It's easy to second-guess now and say I should have done that or should have done this. But, I still felt good about having Marmol out there. I mean, this guy's closed down a lot of games, pitched in a lot of big situations over the course of his career. That's why we signed him. We signed him to come in and take over for the guys that we lost, for Qualls and Webb, and eat up those innings. We're going to need this guy to pitch in some big situations and some big games. I know ultimately it didn't work out for us, or for him. But you think about how that inning kind of took shape. He hits a guy. Then a drag bunt that we throw the ball away. Now, all of a sudden, his ability to pitch out of it was tough. We put him in a tough spot because we made a fielding mistake there. At the same time, I felt like he still had a chance to get out of it."

With his control issues historically, did you think about not walking the guy to load the bases?

Redmond: "Like I said, we can go round and round about whether I should or shouldn't have. My thinking was, try to get a ground ball there and , with his slider, I felt like that was a good matchup. I've seen him (Werth) hit ground ball double plays, and if he threw a couple of nasty sliders, he could get that ground ball and get out of that inning. That was my thinking, and it didn't work. There's stuff all the time that sometimes you roll the dice and it works great...It went from first and second to one out to second and third with a base open, and it's like you have that decision. You could break down that game a lot of different ways."

As you evaluate the eighth inning, how do you kind of let it sort itself out (on which pitchers to use)?

Redmond: "It's like anything. Last year it took a little time to figure out where everybody was going to fit in. And it will this year, too. But we do know that (Mike) Dunn and A.J. and Marmol, those guys are going to have to play a big role in that 8th inning, because that's how we're set up. We're probably going to have to mix and match. A.J.'s not going to be able to throw every single night, and either is Dunner. The tough part was the night before having to throw Dunner almost 30 pitches to cover that game. But we're going to need all those guys down there. Those roles work themselves out over the course of time."

> The MRI on Jacob Turner revealed nothing the Marlins didn't already suspect. He has a strained right shoulder and there's no timetable on his return.

> Rafael Furcal is scheduled to begin playing extended spring games on Monday in Jupiter. Furcal (15-day DL with hamstring injury) has been running the bases.

Today's lineups:

Marlins: 1. Christian Yelich lf; 2. Derek Dietrich 2b; 3. Giancarlo Stanton rf; 4. Garrett Jones 1b; 5. Casey McGehee 3b; 6. Marcell Ozuna cf; 7. Adeiny Hechavarria ss; 8. Jeff Mathis c; 9. Tom Koehler p.

Nationals: 1. Nate McLouth cf; 2. Anthony Rendon 2b; 3. Jayson Werth rf; 4. Adam LaRoche 1b: 5. Ryan Zimmerman 3b; 6. Bryce Harper lf; 7. Ian Desmond ss; 8. Sandy Leon c; 9. Stephen Strasburg p.

Comments

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Flav C.

I agree with Redmond's decision to put Marmol in that spot. He was going against the #8 hitter, a PH, and then back to top of the rotation.

Previous to yesterday, he had faced Tulo, Rosario, Gyorko, Grandal, Cuddyer, etc...and did really well against all of them. All pretty good hitters.

The only time he demonstrates lack of knowledge in this interview is when he says he expected Marmol's slider to induce a double play. Marmol has one of the worst groundout/airout rations among the relievers. Fat chance he would get any ground balls from Werth.

For that decision, he definitely needs to be held accountable, just like Dietrich should take some heat for the stupid fielding error.

Time to move on. I can feel Stanton is going to hit one out of the ballpark today. And so will Jones.

Juanv

I agree flav c, it should be a good game tonight so far I think defensively second base is the issue right now. But with furcal or Solano can be better. as far as offense goes not to shabby getting a lot of hits from all spots. So let's see how the bullpen forms there is still plenty of arms in the minors. to early to give up on marmol.

Flav C.

Juanv, agree with you.

2B with Baker or Dietrich has been a big hole so far. If you look at the starts of a groundballer like Alvarez, there were several infield ground hits right thru that hole between SS and 2B, some of them showing lack of range of both infielders.

Alex

I sure hope they come back and win this game, but it doesn't look so good. I told you guys yesterday that Redmond throwing away yesterday's game could send this team on a slide that could go on for a bunch of games before they snap out of it. That's why that loss was so bad for the Fish. It was psychologically CRUSHING. All the confidence they built up after going 5-2? GONE. Some guys on the team may be starting to say to themselves "oh no, this reminds me of last year". Losing often breeds more losing, as teams start doubting themselves. That's why I am so mad at Redmond for just giving away that game last night. He did NOT manage that game like a manager trying to avoid losing three games in a row. Letting Marmol pitch the 8th inning when he had AJ Ramos in the pen shows that he really didn't care if the team won or lost. Maybe he was more interested in seeing if Marmol could be trusted in situations like that. Managers do stuff like that in September and August if their team is already out of it, twenty games out of first place and playing out the string, evaluating the talent they have for next year. That makes me wonder if Redmond doesn't thinks this team has any chance at all this year.

But hey, maybe they'll pull this game out. It's only 2-0 so far....

Alex

Anyone who AGREES with putting Marmol into a one run game, a game that losing would be bad psychological blow, is just dead wrong. Marmol is an arsonist, a guy who STARTS FIRES, a guy who hits guys at a record rate and WALKS GUYS and throws wild pitches and gives up huge hits. ("Dunner" is just slightly better, BTW. Redmond is a clown) In that situation, trying to win THAT PARTICULAR GAME, there is no other choice but YOUR BEST RELIEF PITCHER other than your closer. Marmol is NOT the Marlins'BEST RELIEF PITCHER other than their closer. He's shaky, AT BEST. This was not the game to mess around.

Losing that game could send this team on a long funk. I can see them losing every game on this road trip, or maybe just winning Jose's game. MAYBE.

I hope I'm wrong; I really do. But look at how this game's going. The effects of yesterday's loss might continue to be felt for a while.

flagstaffishfan

Same as it ever was...a 4 game losing streak to start of the season. Journeymen players all over the field and a manager that appears a bit lost. Well here's to saving money this year on MLB Extra Innings. Glad I only purchased for one month. That's 2 Grand Slams in 2 days. Only this franchise can pull that off within the first 10 games of the year.

Lee

Such much for the Caminero experiment. Back to the minors for him. Totally agree with Alex about the dumb moves by the manager, but we cannot give up on the team yet. The season is still very early.

Camera  Mike

Here's a name from the not so distant past. The White Sox just acquired Gorkys Hernandez from the Royals from cash and are assigning him to their AAA affiliate.

Alex

Totally ridiculous how this has played out. The Fish had a chance to break a losing streak and regain some of their mojo Wed. night. They knocked out Jordan Zimmerman and scored on both Drew Storen and Tyler Clippard. You do NOT throw away a chance to win a game like that, but that's exactly what Redmond did. That effects of that loss can linger for a long time. Bringing in Marmol in another game with a 1 run lead might have been acceptable; bringing him in to THAT game shows either a lack of understanding of the importance of not going on losing streaks early in the year when a team is building an identity, and building confidence, or he just doesnt care because he does NOT feel he has a team that can contend anyway.

This team is in serious danger of going on a 5, six, or seven game losing streak. It's up to the great kid Jose Fernandez to be The Stopper tomorrow. If he does not stop the losing streak in Philly tomorrow night, it could easily become a very LONG losing streak.

Redmond showed his true colors last year losing 100 games and along with Braves mgr Fat Fredi Gonzalez, throwing his best player, Fernandez, under the bus over that HR stare, or whatever. I was hoping he learned something from last year's debacle; apparently NOT.

Stan M

For those of you who still feel that Redmond is a capable ML manager, I offer the following. During that fateful 8th inning of the second game of this series, Marmol was told to intentionally walk a batter to load the bases. Either at that moment, or slightly before, one of our TV announcers said the following: "There is no one warming up in the Marlin bullpen". What? He should have had both a lefty and a righty throwing at the onset of the inning, or when the first guy got on at the earliest. Perhaps I'm wrong, but as I remember it, no one was up until there were runners on 2nd and 3rd after Dietrich's error. If I'm right, and I could be wrong in my time line, it was a horrible mistake.

Al-Kendall

Cishek has not pitched yet this week! Red gave Marmol too much leeway when it seemed he did not have good control, but it could also have been worthwhile to bring in Cishek into the 8th instead of Marmol or Ramos.

Flav C.

Am I crazy or the crowd is out to hang Redmond?

These are the numbers for this series against the (arguably) one of the top 3 teams in the MLB (Nats):

- The Marlins struck out 36 times (!!!),
- Allowed 2 grand-slams in 2 games
- Committed 4 errors (all resulting in runs),
- Went 4 for 24 with RISP,
- Was shut out once,
- Hand, Slowey, and Jennings gave up a 5 runs lead in the timeframe of 2.2 innings,
- Displayed its infield fragility on 2B,
- Caminero (who every single one was pissed about being sent down to AAA) showed the same inconsistency and lack of control he has always displayed since I remember him in A and AA...


....and all I hear about is "Redmond"? Amazing, but it does sound like a witch hunt.

What happened with all the right moves he made with the bullpen when they went 5-2 at home? What happened with the fact that he switched Jones and McGehee as clean-up hitters behind Stanton (which worked really well)? What about against the Rockies, game tied 2-2 on the bottom of the 6th, and to start the inning, Redmond brought Reed to pinch-hit for Eovaldi (when he still had a lot left in the tank) on, and Reed doubled to LF, initiating the rally? On the same inning, he signaled Stanton to steal 3B, allowing him to score on a weak single to CF (he probably would not have scored being on 2B)? On the same game, he brought Marmol to hold a 2 run lead, and he did it very well. And 2 days later, the Rockies were winning 5-3 and Marmol was also brought in and held the 5-3, which contributed to the rally the Marlins pushed forward to win 8-5. What about his aggressiveness, allowing Hech and Yelich to be much more free to steal bases?

All of a sudden none of these details really matters, because of a frigging decision to bring Marmol on the 8th.

Dionysus Thelxinoe

Yes, Flav, it matters that much, imo. Momentum is a real factor in baseball. And the last person I expect to do something to kill a team's momentum is the manager.

Marmol did not belong in that game in that situation. It was poorly thought out. And his responses above are lame, canned, and silly.

Send Loria to Eastern Ukraine

Now this is the Marlins team that I expected. What a joke. You get what you pay for Loria, you scumbag!!

Stan M

Flav, in answer to your question as to whether this crowd is out to hang Redmond, I would answer that he has slit his own wrists and is slowly bleeding to death. I'm not sure what to make of your descriptive word "crowd".

Juan Yanes

Marlins team deserve a better manager; Redmond need be send to minor league to learn a little more about maneuver and base ball principles; Example on wednesday off Nationals inning # 8, he ordered pass Rendon to pith Werth (who is better) ?? Werth is much better than Rendon for sure. then Redmond decision went against a game principles, why?? because he unknown still how to make appropriate decisions.

Juan Yanes

Marlins need urgent a decent manager, there are guys available like Dusty Baker, Davie Johnson and so forth, why the Marlins owner unknown the fans desires ? or maybe he likes loose ?

Juan Yanes

IF MARLINS DON'T REMOVE MANAGER MIKE REDMOND SOON THEY WILL LOOSE AGAIN 100 GAMES FOR SURE, IF NOT MARLINS OWNER LIKES LOOSE GAMES DOESN'T MATTER THE FANS FEELINGS

Russell

@JuanYanes,

Yes, please bring in Dusty Baker to tutor our young pitching staff, that is exactly what the Fish need. The Marlins have a once a week reason for fans to watch and if Baker were to be his Manager our interest will surely dwindle to 0/week.

I agree w/ Flav, Redmond may not be the best Manager out there but if you truly believe he's the bane of this team's existence well….

Platoons at 1st, platoons in LF, a forever revolving door at 3B, a yet to play retread in the IF, a retread bullpen guy who all of you seem to loathe. Yes, it must be the Manager why this team is going nowhere fast.

Stan M

Russell, of course he isn't the only reason. The more important point would be, is he a help? Juan, Dusty Baker destroyed a number of young pitchers through misuse. He is the one manager neither we, nor anyone else should want. The problem with attaining a competent manager is that the buggers want to get paid and that is in direct conflict with our owners philosophy of how to ruin, I mean run, a club.

Dionysus Thelxinoe

The part of his job where Redmond is completely at a loss is what I've stated in the past is the most essential part of being a manager, baseball AND business, and that is putting your people in a position to succeed, through proper preparation and using them in situations where they have a better chance to succeed.

I was willing to cut Redmond some slack last year. But he's still making rookie mistakes. It's ok to make the wrong choice when you can provide sound reasoning behind your moves after they don't work out. But ruminating about second-guessing and about wanting to count on Marmol over the long haul are not reasons ... they're excuses - ANOTHER thing you don't expect from your manager.

It's one thing to hear Samson the moron laying off blame for his actions on someone else. But when the manager does it, the chances of his learning by experience drops dramatically. In other words, expect more of the same, unless he opens his eyes very soon.

Alex

Redmond's losing streak is now at 5 games and counting. Winning the game Wednesday was critical, and he threw it away as if this team can get a win anytime they want. With a chance to stop the bleeding at two games, Redmond threw it away and now this team's confidence is shot. They are starting to look like last year's Fish, unable to get hits when they need them. This was a young team with a bunch of new guys this year. They were starting to develop an identity and to have a bit of confidence, when Redmond brought in Marmol in a game they really needed. That loss REALLY hurt this team. Who knows when this losing streak will end?

Luke T.

Jose Marmol is just not up to the job of pitching in any kind of clutch situation and Mike Redmond should have know that. His well known control issues make him a liability - except to pitch a couple of innings in an already hopelessly lost game.

Lou Vales

Dear Flav, I hope that does not sound nasty but the one thing I find really difficult for Redmond to overc ome is he does NOT engender any confidence. He looks like a lost little boy. It has been demonstrated over and over in psychological testing that you can have 2 people submit the exact same resume and transcript and 98% of the time the person most physically commanding will get the job either through looks or confidence. Can anyone honestly say that he believes Redmond would fare well in this type of a test? I'm not saying a manager needs to look like a young Richard Gere but he sure sould look like he has not lost last lollipop.

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