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Panthers GameDay LIVE! Florida Panthers 2, Tampa Bay Lightning 3 (FINAL) ... Tied for Worst Start in Franchise History (1-4-0)

Lightninggirls2 TAMPA -- Welcome to another Hockey Night in (Central) Florida as the Panthers take on the Lightning from the Lakeland Ledger Ice Palace on the shores of Lake Wasapamanni.

Kickoff is just a few minutes away, so make sure to return throughout the game for our usual LIVE! chat.

If it takes a few minutes for your questions to get through, be patient. Like a lot of things at this arena, the internet sucks.

They do have a pretty nice scoreboard though. But I digress.

-- Randy Sexton tonight on Dmitry Kulikov: 'We're keeping an open mind, but we're going to do whatever is best for the long term interest of this player.''

''We have five games left. We'll see.''

-- As far as Dominic Moore goes, the Panthers can't do anymore to help. Sexton says all the paperwork is turned in and they are waiting for Homeland Security to clear him to come in with a work visa. It's been a week since he signed, but thanks to Columbus, Ohio, Day, only five workdays. It can take up to 15 workdays but probably won't.


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I'm sorry, I've just had enough. When are the Panthers going to realize that Vokun SUCKS!!!!! How many soft unscreened goals can a guy give up in one game? He blows!!!!

Hurry up Clemmenson!

trade tvo for a foward he sucks alot

Until that blow hard Vokun is replaced, this team is going nowhere. He is the worst. DeBoer better start Clemmenson and soon. Three, count them three, clear views to the shooter and puck and that you know what can't stop them. Pathetic.

the whole team is pathetic, worst defense I've ever seen pathetic goaltending, no emotion... Thank you Mr. Cohen for another mediocre ice product.. . Let's rock the rink!!!

They played very well tonight minus some dumb penalties.
It feels like they are two players away, is it Moore that they are missing, and benching Koisten? We will find out when Moore comes to town. I think Kulikov should stay.

Go FINS!!Who knew, Ginn knew how to catch a football?

They should have kept Andy and traded Vokun and Horton for a jockstrap. What a waste of money. I actually went to Tampa tonight to watch the game, hoping for a win. Instead I had to deal with nasty tampons after that brilliant performance Panthers put on. Looked more like Dancing with the Puck than hockey. And I actually thought of upgrading my 13 game pack to half season. That thought quickly died on the ice in Tampa tonight.
I'm getting too old to remember 96.

Just got back from the game tonight. Actually thought the Panthers outchanced the Lightning, some great stops by Niitymaki, a couple dumb, dumb penalties, and a couple horrible, horrible goals against fro Vokoun. I have to think\hope that Clemmensen is just itching for a shot at taking the #1 job. It certainly felt like we had more chances tonight than we have the first 4 games of the season, just couldn't finish. Sigh.

Why the heck are you all blaming Vokoun? he hasn't been nearly as bad as the rest of the team. The Panthers have been outshot 193 to 128 and out scored 20-10. The forwards can't keep the puck in the other teams zone to save their lives. Booth blew 2 breakaways, Weiss hitting the crossbar on a wide open net, Kreps missing three open nets because he fired the puck right into the golies pads. The second line has been noexistant except for Frolik taking 3 dumb penalties against NJ. How about the forwards making millions actually forecheck and score? Or is that too much to ask? Not to mention the defense, Allen taking stupid penalties, nobody being physical, McCabe forgeting that its a bad idea to turn the puck over right in front of the crease. The whole defense was standing around watching while Malone skates in and taps that puck in on the winning goal. Vokoun is the least of our problems.

"And it's ladies night, tonight, at the Palace Hotel Ballroom...free parking..."

I gotta laugh. While I really liked Craig, it wouldn't matter who is in net, be it Terry Sawchuk or Pat Roy, with these bozos in front of them. The team is B-A-D. The offense can't maintain possession and generate sustained pressure, the D can't headman the puck without coughing it up...

Without whining about the poor deals of yesteryear, the future needs to be addressed now. Horton MUST go. The kid is one of the NHL's best practice players but in game situations he chokes like Mama Cass at a Subway Buffet. I believe that he is one of the main reasons we can't get over the hump - we rely on him on the first line and expect him to carry the load when instead he IS the load.

Additionally, we need 2 better faceoff guys who can win to both sides and in both ends and we need to get an older player up front who can teach the multitude of kids what to do instead of continuing to put the old legs on D where they get torched.

(Brendan Shanahan should be available in a few days...anyone?)

By the way, our girls are MUCH hotter than these west coasties. Of course they would be, our gene pool is much deeper over here and most of us have all our teeth...

Stat to watch as the season wears on.
As of the morning of 10/13/09.
Vokoun $5.7mil 5GP 1-4-0 3.80GA .903%SP 0SHT
Anderson $1.5mil 5GP 3-1-1 2.18GA .935%SP 1SHT
Reach your own conclusion on the key personnel decision of this past off-season.

you can't compare stats between Vokoun and Anderson because a goalie still needs good players in front of him. I am not a Vokoun fan as he gives up way too many soft goals at the wrong time; but you still have to be fair and Colorado has more talent then the panthers (not saying much) If Vokoun gives up 2 goals chances our we lose. That is a lot of pressure to play under when you have to be perfect because you don't have talent in front of you that is willing to work hard and win the battles.

As EJ Hradek said it looks like the same old panthers.

How in the world does a team lose 2 out of every 3 face offs. As Stamkos said after the game, their guys were just standing still so we were able to get around them.

Vokoun is not a great goalie, I am not blaming him because if it wasn't for him the goals against would be worse then Toronto who is the only team playing worse then the panthers.

DeBoer says "best we played all season", we are in deep trouble if that is the best.

First, as stated above we can't win face offs so we start out on defense. The forwards refuse to go into traffic, we can't forecheck because we don't have the puck to forecheck and we don't have someone that can control the puck.

The forwards don't back check thus the high shots on goal.

The defense doesn't win battles in the corners and the slot is wide open for anyone to take a vacation in before the puck arrives. Again a high number of shots against.

Our power play is terrible and the penalty kill is terrible. We take dumb penalties because of lazy play and not aggressive play.

I said it last year and the year before that and the year before that etc. it is time to get rid of some of the dead weight. Why is it that when other teams realize they made a mistake they trade them for more assets; while we get rid of our assets for nothing.

Keeping Bouwmeester was a huge mistake, I said it a year ago and am saying it again, look at the Pronger and Kessler trades for what their teams received compared to the Panthers)

The Luongo mess was management made.

Now we have our worse start ever when our goal was to get off to a quick start.

What is the over/under for the rested flyers this week when they play the panthers.

Some say don't panic, that is easy when your team has played well but is not easy when your team hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years. (or won a playoff series in 12 years)

Get rid of everyone except Booth, Matthais,Frokik and Ballard. Send Kulikov to Juniors so he can build his confidence and be around a winning organization.

The Horton, Weiss, Bouwmeester, Jokinen years were a waste, get what you can for Horton, Weiss and Vokoun,

Build the team around Booth, Matthais, Frolik Ballard, Kulikov, Garrison, Ellerby, Dadonov and Repik

For what its worth, i was at the rochester v. albany game the other night and no one...i mean no one stood out. dadonov was aweful...ellerby took dumb penalties, numerous turnovers in the d zone. repik played like he was the only guy on the ice. i thought i was going to see our future club, well the future does not look very bright.

I agree it's not fair to bash T-vo here...That was JM's decision to try to draw attention away from the Luongo mess, and it back-fired..

Surely if they could get rid of T-vo's $5.7 and $6.3 mill for next year, they would've and kept ANDY for much less...But no other team is making a deal for T-vo, unless you take on a bad contract in return(Nylander, Huet, Campbell, Theodore, Gomez, Finger, etc...)

Yes Marty St louis's goal was BAD and untimely, but as stated by previous writers, they don't do anything right to possess the puck, sustain pressure, and look anything close to consistent out there....Very poor decisions on top of other poor decisions...It actually looked like they almost deserved a point last night, but more lack of coverage, poor penalties, and toss in a bad goal that this team can never seem to overcome...

After all, they can't even average 2 goals/gm.. They need to blow it up like Burke's doing in Toronto. They may not be good now, but they're improving and they play more exciting hockey that gets fans into the game.. They'll get better when Kessel is there and they get rid ofa few more deadbeats and bad contracts...But the Panthers won't admit their mistakes, and keep trying to push CRAP on us..

PDB can't do much as this was the hand he's dealt. I say first things first...Find some energy players that can hit and stir up some excitement...This will set a tone to the young guys of what is to be expected...

Now we've got McCabe as our CAPT, but he should probably be used as trade bait as soon as someone needs that D-man. Our best D-man is probably Seidenberg. Only FWDs worth anything so far are Dvorak, Booth, Matthias..maybe Frolik but I'm still not sold.. Repik will never make it--too small and not willing to battle against more competitive players...

For the mean time, we're trying to make Chicken Soup out of Chicken Crap...Dominic Moore will help short-handed and on faceoffs.. Any offense is a bonus. I'd love us to talk to Shanahan, even though he'll never come...Hell even to Chelios to mentor some youngsters and teach some leadership to these young guys. Sign Kulikov as he's probably one of our best 3 or 4 Dman, but that ain't sayin' much...

It does look like the same old Panthers. That's exactly what my wife said last night and she doesn't care for hockey. I think you can compare the goalies numbers because Colorado's defense is young and just as unaccomplished as ours. Their only real star is JM Liles on the blueline (Foote is OLD). But I think the key is they have forward that can control the puck and forcheck/backcheck. Their talent up front is keeping the pressure off their defense for the most part. I know, I watch all their games since I live in Denver. Andy has been rock solid for them - he made something ridiculous like 74 of 75 saves his first week of the season.

I have not been a big fan of Vokoun so maybe I am bias, but I agree with Georgia Panther that we should have traded TiVo to a contender for an asset, like a top-end forward prospect. This team is going to have to rebuild again b/c I don't believe the core is good enough to get them to the promise land, the playoffs let alone talking about the Stanley Cup.

Same year, same old Panthers. 1-4 = worst start in history. I do think you can panic b/c these slow starts have killed us the past 2-3 years where we just can't make up enough ground later on.

TVo makes too much money for how he plays and no other team wants his salary.

For those of you who say you can't compare Anderson's stats with Colorado with Vokoun's in Florida I remind you that Colorado was the consensus pick to finish last in the Western Conference this season.

you have to look at the overall team, yes, Colorado was expected to be very bad this year, as people did not expect their young players to start off the way they did.

the point is that you have to look at what is in front of the players, Anderson has young talented players that work hard, win face offs and control the puck,

Vokoun has a bunch of players that are slow, lazy, can't control the puck and refuse to fight the one on one battles.

I am not a Vokoun fan at all, I thought we overpayed for him when we traded for him and would have been better off keeping the picks to build talent like Colorado has.

Toronto is in trouble as they paid too much for Kessel too soon.

Mike Keenan said players don't develop in Florida because there is no pressure to win right away.

As far as statistics go, I can take any statistic and spin it anyway I want. A better indication for a goalie would be save percentage on scoring chances. Making saves on long shots with no chance only bulsters save percentage where making saves from the slot is a true indication of value.

Also when you make the save and this is where Vokoun is bad is very important. Last night is an example, Tampa makes the big save on Booth and Vokoun gives up a rebound on a long shot that goes in, not to mention the St. Louis goal.

Vokoun's history is that he gives up untimely goals yet we give up 3 draft picks for him.

Vokoun also gives up way too many soft goals.

The great goalies make the timely saves and win games. The only statistic that really matters is wins/losses.

You can talk about how the team as a whole should be playing better, forwards can't maintain pressure, etc etc... Vokoun has 1 job. Stop the puck. I don't care if they score on a 2 on 1 or if the defense turns it over, fine. Those will happen. It's the slap shot from the side hash marks from St Louis and Stamkos' wrist shot from above the circle that found its way through that bugs me. He's paid to stop the puck. Rebounds will happen, that's the defenses job. Odd man rushes will happen. It's the easy saves that Vokoun fails to make far too often. It's hard to stay confident and push too far into the offensive zone, even with a 3rd period lead like they had last night, when in the back of your mind, you know any shot from any where could tie it.

So yea, obviously the rest of the team could play better, more goals would lead to wins, but you have to make the stops on unscreened, bad angle, long distance shots. Period.

Another thought on Vokoun and the team playing in front of him. I think most would agree that the Panthers played better last season in front of Andy than Vokoun. Some use that as an excuse for Vokoun but I regard that as an indictment of him and him remaining a Panther. If the team, as a whole, plays better in front of another goalie, no matter what the reason and frankly I don't think the reason matters, why in the world would you want to play the goalie the team plays more poorly for, over the one the team plays better for, no matter how talented that goalie is? After all, this is a team sport and the team is more important than any one player. Sometimes even the most talented player is a poor fit in the overall team picture. It will be interesting to see how the team performs in front of Clem.

You guys are missing the point that we feel T-vo is good, but not great....Coupled to that how much money he makes, he's UNTRADEABLE so it's not like we had a choice...There's plenty of goalies out there and if we could we'd sign one for about $3mill like Andy as well, but we're stuck with that contract...

Maybe our best bet is find a team like Toronto that's not getting great goaltending, but we'd probably have to take a bad contract in return like Van Ryn or Finger or Toskala to make it happen...They're not giving up a star forward to pay T-vo, so basically we're stuck...It's just not easy to get rid of those kinds of contracts...Nashville recognized this and sent him to us, but we realize these things or hold on to these players(Horton) too long, and then it's TOO LATE and you don't get good value in return...

So you can knock Sexton, but he didn't even have the official job until last week...So even if he wou;d've wanted to do it, he was going to have to get approved by Torrey, etc..

Vokoun has a no trade, there is no doubt that this was another of the who knows how many bad trades the panthers have made over the years. this team either pays too much for players or doesn't get enough for players.

I was thinking it is easy to pick the 5 worse trades in panthers history (actually the hard part is narrowing down the 5 worse trades) meanwhile I can only think of one trade that favored the panthers.

Vokoun we paid too much because Martin paniced after the Luongo mess (remember when Kidd was injured in practice and we overpaid for Vernon.) That has been the history of this team and will continue to be as long as Cohen is running the show with Yormark.

I like that the problem is also PD. He will go with his number 1 and never change for long periods of time. Case in point - last year Vokoun loses game after game... Anderson goes in (and WINS), loses one game and we get Vokoun next game.

As far as Vokoun's NTC goes, he said last season he didn't want to stay in a place that he wasn't wanted so I really don't think that would be a big issue in moving him. Finding a team that would want him at that salary with another year left on his contract would be the bigger issue in trading him.

Then again, you could always waive him and if he went unclaimed at least he wouldn't count on our Cap as long as he's at Rochester.

As I wrote today (online now) i don't think TVo has been perfect by any stretch. But he has made some great saves and helped them win the only game they've won. Truth is, this is the worst start in franchise history; that 2000-01 team never got a chance to get a point in a shootout. Under 2000-01 rules, this Florida team would be 0-4-1. TVo hasn't been fantastic, but there have been a lot of other problems with this start. And they can turn it around; a win or two and things are looking better. But it has to come sooner than later...

Anderson = 1st star tonight in the Avs 4-1 win against the Leafs. Like GP said, they were the consensus pick to finish last in the west and they've got guys like David Jones and Brett Clark scoring for them.

The Panthers are lucky that they had Koistinen in that 1st game too. The fact is TiVo has to be a GREAT goaltender on a team like this and he hasn't been. He's got to be able to steal games for us. Is that fair to put that pressure on your goalie? Well, if you're making almost 6 million a year then yeah, it is. I think TiVo would kiss Alan Cohen on the lips if he asked him to waive his NTC and get out this situation.

Still waiting for that 3rd jersey.... tick...tock....

At least give the fans a little bit of excitement. I guess that's too much for this organization to do.

"Like a lot of things at this arena, the internet sucks."

How witty. The Panther organization's absence of professionalism carries over to the beat writer, I see. I really don't understand how anyone with any connection to the Florida Panthers could turn up their nose at another organization. The condescention that drips from the screen is unearned, unjustified, and un-funny.

Btw, your article today said Repik has the 2 goals on his line. Repik isn't even up with the Panthers.

Everyone's high on trading Vokoun but who is going to be the Panther's backup goalie to Clemmson. Its not like we have someone to fill that role.

Panthers need a good swift kick. If I was in Deboer shoes, I would sit the two players who have performed the worse and bring up whoever is playing decently in Rochester. There needs to be some fear set on this team. sign someone and throw him in. Do Something to get some type of play out of these guys consistently. My feeling is that we don't have enough guys sitting on the bench challenging our players. Also, these guys have some tired legs, do they need two days off? Are they not conditioning right?Why are they so lazy, this early in the season!

hey, I got no problem with the Lightning nor the city of Tampa. Always have a good time there. But the arena leaves a lot to be desired -- especially last night. One elevator (a freight one at that); no internet service on one half of the press box. The popcorn was good though...

Bring Belak in to knock some heads around (on our team!).

STH since Day One, what was the one good trade??

Piere LeBrum has a good article on Anderson for Espn.com. As he stated with Vokoun's salary there was no way to trade him.

It all goes back to Martin panicing and wanting a goalie, he gambled with this trade and we lost. He gambled by not trading Bouwmeester and we lost.

Every move this organization has made since Cohen has been in charge has been wrong except for hiring DeBoer, if DeBoer wasn't coach I would hate to see where this team would be

GR-Let's see how the team plays in front of Clem and then maybe we can see that my point that the team plays better with a goalie other than Vokoun in net, whatever the reason, has merit.

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