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Washington Fallout: Koistinen on Bench ... Gregory Campbell Bruised ... Scott Clemmensen's D-Fence

Koistinen Happy Sunday to everyone. Just wanted to throw out some odds and ends from last night's Debacle in the Capital:

-- See that picture to the left? That's Ville Koistinen in happier times. You know, playing, scoring, winning?

Seems like last season.

Signed as a free agent defenseman on July 1, Koistinen spent the preseason playing defense.

But for Florida's opener against Chicago in Helsinki, Koistinen was put with the forwards, a move that was thought to be a short-term answer. He's been there ever since.

And he isn't playing much. In five recent games, Koistinen has played fewer than 10 shifts with less than nine minutes of ice time. Saturday, Koistinen got two shifts even though the Panthers were shorthanded with the loss of Gregory Campbell.

Pete DeBoer today: ''He's a defenseman. We had six healthy defensemen,'' DeBoer said. ''I've been playing him as a forward because I've had to piece together a lineup. But he's not a forward, it's not his natural position.

DeBoer said Koistinen was benched during Saturday's game because ''I made the decision he couldn't help us. It was that simple.''

-- DeBoer said he is hopeful Campbell will return to the lineup on Thursday after the center took a hard slap shot to the face. Campbell spent most of the second half of the game being examined and stitched up – all in full uniform so he could return to the game if given clearance by the medical staff. He was not granted permission to return. Campbell was being examined by Florida medical staff on Sunday.

''We want to make sure there are no fractures,'' DeBoer said. ''It was a significant cut. He had damage to his teeth. If he can eat, hold down food, he's going to try and play. We know he wants to play, but we have to make the decision whether he will or not. He'll go out there hurt.''

-- Scott Clemmensen had a rough day yesterday, you know, giving up five goals in the third and all.

He was very critical of the Florida defense after the game and DeBoer basically said today that Clemmensen can voice his own opinions.

Does DeBoer buy it?

More later.

-- Panthers back on the Incredible Ice tomorrow at 10:30. Should be interesting.


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Clemmenson critical of the defense? I don't know if Clemmer realizes it or not, but five of those seven goals were his fault. Yes the other two were D-failures, but come on Clemmer, wake up. So many stuffs from the sides of the net which are easy stops for any other netminder. It is unacceptable and I am disappointed that he is pointing fingers at others when it was his fault.

Stat to watch as the season wears on.
As of 11:00PM on 11/07/09.
Vokoun $5.7mil 12GP 3-8-1 2.99GA .916%SP 2SHT
Anderson $1.5mil 16GP 11-3-2 2.15GA .934%SP 2SHT
Clemmensen $1.0mil 4GP 2-1-0 5.13GA .838%SP 0SHT

Reach your own conclusion on the key personnel decision of this past off-season.

there was a reason that NJ let Clemmensen go for nothing, unlike the panthers, NJ knows when to unload players while the panthers don't know when to pick up players

Too many times we have overplayed for players (years and term)

It goes back to the lack of scouting budget, we look at video and stats, we don't know if a guy has lost a step or if he is washed up.

Uh I dont think it is just "scouting budget." Its called picking the right players in the draft and picking up the right free agents. Koistenen, Horton, etc. are lazy. Panthers have not had any consistency in the entire front office since the days of the rat. Their only constistency has been as Owner and with Luce. Both need to go.

Panthers should bring in Amerks Nolan next year as GM, head scout, or President (he can have his choise) - if the Amerks do well 10-1 so far. Forget Sexton, remember he had a hand in letting Anderson go for Clememson. Nolan made ALL of the choices in Rochester over the offseason, the Panthers had nothing to do with the free agent pickups in Rochester.

(P.S. According to the Democrat and Chronicle, the current owner of the Amerks picked up the "salary" for the additions - AC had no hand in that one what a surprise!)

Classless in South FLorida to Classy in Rochester. The last two games in Amerk country, Amerks Owner and CEO Curt Styres has given away a signed (by a player) jersey to a lucky fan after a win.

Bill Lindsay said it best, "The Panthers play disconbobulated."

Once again this team goes back the their ways and continues to show us how bad they are.
Also, how much longer do we keep a player that plays only 2 shifts, especially when the coach says, "He can't Help us"!

Can they also include Goldy and Moeller in any trade that they make. I can't stand listening to either one of them.

you can't pick the right players if you are not at the ring learning who they are and what they are about.

Our scouting department except for Europe consists of watching videos, other teams interview coaches and people in the stands, they learn about a player the good, bad and the ugly, we only see the stats and what little video there is available,

That is the root of the problem. I don't know if Luce is a good scout or not, I just understand that he is provided a budget that does not allow him to properly scout the players.

It is like someone telling someone to find me a horse that can win the triple crown but I only give them enough money to buy a donkey.

Too many times we have drafted the wrong player, traded for the wrong player and signed the wrong free agents. Is it scouting, the lack of scouting or the scouts. I don't know, but I would be willing to bet that our scouting budget is near the bottom of the league.

vokoun vs andy? andy vs clemmer? clemmer vs vokoune? bench,trade, or play koistinen,horton etc? spend more on scouting? none of this matters. we panther fans should be cheering at the top of our lungs. as of friday WE SIGNED JET BLUE AS A PILLAR PARTNER!. a PILLAR PARTNER! how great is that?
and on a side note this new kool-aid in the upper level tastes funny. go JET BLUE!!!

I just keep thinking how Koistenin was sold as a top 4 defenseman when he was signed this summer. HAHAHAHAHA! The guy can't even break the top 6. If he stunk in Nashville and couldn't break their top 4, granted they have a better than us, why would we think he would come here and blossom into a top 4 guy???

I don't have as big a problem with Horton as some people. The problem lies within the organization that ALL of our 1st round picks have to be superstars. Horts hasn't played with a bona fide #1 center since Jokinen was here, and when he was he broke 30 goals. His scoring may be down, but he's playing a better all-around game. Unfortunately, we need him to score like an all-star b/c our lack of scoring talent. If we had a real 1st line, maybe we'd see more from Horton. I like Weiss, but he's not a #1 guy, he's a #2 and a good #2. I know the Rhino-Stillman-Horton line is clicking but seriously, how many teams would have that line as their #1??? Not many...

Nashville was known to have a solid D unit, and I think Koistenen is getting a raw deal as PDB won't sit Allen...I'm not saying he's overly physical or even totally worthy yet as a signing, but I do say he's never gotten a fair shake as a D-man, other than some PP time..

As far as Horton goes, I wouldn't even have as much of a problem with him if he played like he has for the most part....I'd rather him score 20 instead of 30 playing good team hockey, but we all know that just doesn't happen with him....He holds onto it too long, loses possession, killing momentum... He does make some nice passes from time to time, but his Negatives outweigh his Positives as a whole, and I think this is why he's now being mentioned as a BURDEN, because he also makes too much $$$$..

Weiss has skills, but like many guys here, benefits from the fact that we have lesser talent.... SO he doesn't have to earn his ice time, he's pretty much given it...And far from CAPTAIN-worthy material, as are McCabe and Stillman....Too many free hand-outs for these players...

Really? They have no scouting budget?? then why is Luce traveling to Europe in the summer. Please see his comments on his blog on the website. These guys are scouting the wrong places for D and scorers... I just took bits and pieces of his blog...

7/27/09 "August will bring the start of the 2009-10 Scouting Season. We will be covering both the USA and Canadian World Junior Development Camps.....Then it is off to Slovakia and the Czech Republic for the Ivan Hlinka Tournament."

Luce - 9/29/09"We will continue to try and add both quality and quantity to our prospect pool as we scout the world this season in preparation for the 2010 NHL Entry Draft."

At this point, how about the Panthers do something smart. Rip up the roster sheet and start over. Get a new GM, Scouts, owner, and President. Keep Deboer to train the "kids." Trade Horton and Weiss for a veteran gritty center and D prospect. Why not? Lots of our current guys are way overpaid for their style of play. We will never get better without dumping AVERAGE centers and D.

Build around Kulikov, Reinchart, Frolik, Oreskovich, Booth. The rest of the roster can go.

I am loving Oreskovich and McArdle by the way. The restof the team is going to bring the same heartache: 2 wins 4 losses a shutout then a blowout. Our biggest feat again will be breaking .500...then go on a 7 game losing streak. Why is it the Cats only get airtime locally or NHL Network when someone gets hurt (Zed,Booth,CampbellY? I really miss Anderson, Belak...and most of all Potvin!

Bring back Potvin...he was a fun guy.

Does anyone know what is he doing nowadays?

Here is to "Clemensen, the Swiss Cheese Netminder"

Oreskovich is money..yo!!!

Man, these comments just really show just how little people pay attention. It seems some are perfectly content pretending they know what they're talking about and rehashing the same tired, old arguments instead of actually watching and analyzing the players. Horton has been arguably our best player this year. He has been consistently good in the offensive zone as well as the defensive zone. Horton is far from the problem, this year.

Horton is one of our most improved player this year, but he has to learn from Rhino how to shoot the puck immediately without circulating behind the net.

Try and pay attention to Rhino and follow his number, I did in two games, and I saw why is this guy getting chances and scoring in the way he is, he does not hold onto the puck, almost as it was Kriptonite, what I learned also was that he is pretty good with the puck.

Some say Rhino is doing well just because he played with more talented people than him in the past and didn't get the ice time in the first line in the way he is getting it right now.

I know, Rhino is not our Savior and he is having one of his best years, what I'm saying is, he has good habits, and the very basic habits, he goes to the net, gets in the blue paint and shoots the puck inmediately.

Kulikov, I love that kid, with mistakes and all, I would have loved to see him play with Bow.

We need the energy of Booth and Dvorak back, those are 2 character guys we are really missing.

Bob-- Maybe you should pay attention, and stop making excuses for Horton....Because he has been one of the problems for years here...And his lack of work ethic rubs off on the young guys around....

I agree he is playing better this year than in the past, but it's not enough...Many others see this and that's why even though we say we're not trying to trade him, they probably are and just getting CRAP offers in return... It's not all about points. His point production has been better, but it's his turnovers and lack of effort that really make him a liability... He's playing better and sadly that's probably only 80% of his skill potential....Imagine if he could find the other 20%, but you know he never will... He's had plenty of time now, and if he can't give more than this, he never will...And if any coach ever puts a C on his chest, I'll disown this team...But I'm comfortable they won't, because word is out now and if he hasn't gotten better by now, he never will...Please TRADE him--the sooner the better...

another year of failures.




And its not like we would use a high pick to draft anyone good or anything like that. Scott should be fired as our scout, he's done a F- job. I guess thats why cohen and yormark still keep him. They have no desire to win!

As long as Horton works hard and goes to the net I will not complain it is the fact that he rarely goes to the net or the corners, he is a big boy and he needs to get in the scoring areas.

As far as scouting, Fla Kittens, they go to the tournaments to save money, they don't go to the small towns to find out about people, and as I said they do go to Europe and appear to concentrate in that area.

As far as Potvin he is working for the NHL network on the recap show called "On the Fly", he gets to analysis all the games, he is also on XM radio doing guest appearances on the morning show and the afternoon show, he was on for about one hour yesterday.

Steve MacIntyre back in the Panthers organization. We claimed him today from waivers and he is expected to likely play with the Panthers.

season ticket holder since day one,

We can only wonder what the Panthers are doing in Slovakia..When most of the top NHL prospects in next years draft, are in Canada, Russia, and USA. The game plan must be to fail again at the draft and at free agency.

Kittens, I'm gonna say this nicely as possible. You really don't grasp the business side of running a hockey franchise.

First off, Slovakia produces more quality players than you might think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Slovaks_in_the_NHL There's a list of players from Slovakia through the years. When the Czechs and Slovakia were one nation, the national team was only allowed to have TWO Slovakians on the team and all the rest had to be Czechs. Just a little history. Slovakia has been producing more and more NHLers as time passes, and the problems with Russians still hasn't been resolved with no transfer agreement.

Secondly, goin to tournaments, regardless of where, doesn't show the true aspects of a player, as many times he'll play with better players around him than he usually will. Dany Roussin would be a good example of a guy who looks great playin with someone like Crosby but can't cut the mustard otherwise. Another example of this is Olesz, a guy I predicted on his draft day to be a third liner and not much more. Looked good in his international tournaments but there's not a lot of character study time in those.

Thirdly, you can't blame Luce for draftin the best player available, at the time of the draft. He doesn't make the decisions on whether to have a farm system or not. Until the past two seasons, the Panthers prospects have been coached by management of a different franchise's choosing. Rochester being Buffalo's and the Everblades being Carolina's. When the other team comes first in priority and being taught a system that is nothing like your's (Like the diving in Carolina), your prospects will suffer.

How to properly rebuild the Florida Panthers...

Trade everyone for picks and prospects under the age of 21 and still eligible for the AHL without needing to pass through waivers. Reasoning: Send them to Rochester and develop them or leave them with their junior team and allow them to dominate there and gain more confidence. Actively be involved with them if with juniors. Reload farm with fresh, untainted by present management/ownership's stank players who don't get the screwed attitude of "not caring to win, only control of the arena."

Heavily scout Europe. I'm talkin CRAZY scout Sweden, Finland, the KHL, Czech and Slovakian elite leagues. Germany and Swiss Elitserien. Look for unsigned, undrafted players under the age of 25 with promise (Salak, Hiller, Gustavsson for goalie examples, Ville Leino). Look for North Americans playing abroad who can be solid character third/fourth liners or AHLers/ injury call-ups who would also be team leaders and teachers in the minors. They might get lucky and find themselves a Brian Rafalski in the mix, not just a Cory Murphy.

Heavily scout the college ranks. This is something BIG the Panthers miss out year after year. Sign as many undrafted college players as possible. The list of collegiate players who have gone one to produce in the NHL after goin undrafted is endless. St. Louis and Boyle being two familiar examples for Florida fans.

Sign under performing NHLers lookin to stay in the league and rebuild their careers to low cost, heavy incentive laden, one year contracts contracts, with option years based on performance and at a club option. Make every season an audition to keep their job. Too many guys have contracts they don't have to worry about being renewed.

Hire a coaching staff AND scouting staff that look for the EXACT same thing in players. Hire minor league coaching staffs with the same system as the NHL staff, who are also solid scouts as their time coaching against opposing teams can double as scouting trips.

There's a good reason Detroit and Jersey are the closest things to dynasties in the NHL at present. Because they do these things. They spend the money on improving the team, not on the arena ammenities. They scout. They sign undrafted collegiates and Europeans. They fill their rosters out with former minor leaguers who have gone over seas for a couple seasons, while spending the money on the stars. They sign guys like Bertuzzi who need to redeem themselves, so they can get a decent contract again. Not go after guys because they have had a star name they can sell for advertising, as the Panthers have in the past.

Additionally Kittens, your post about Nolan in Rochester. Usually, the parent club is only responsible for paying the salary of prospects and guys like Taffe, who are injury call ups. Guys like York and Taylor, who are roster fillers and (in the case of Taylor) career minor leaguers with no real NHL future, are the responsibility of the AHL/ minor league team. NHL teams can only carry 50 contracts through a season, and most usually stick to around 40. 23 players on the active NHL roster not including IR, leaves about 17 for the AHL and ECHL. And not everyone who succeeds in the minors does well in the NHL. Dudley won a Turner Cup in the IHL as GM, calling all the moves, and was heavily credited with assembling the Lightning Cup winning team, by their players. But you can't find many south of the big lake who would want Dudley calling the shots again in Sunrise.

Regarding Horton, how do you know he isn't putting int he effort? That line of reasoning is completely stupid. He has been visibly skating hard all season long, has been very good defensively, and has been this team's best playmaker despite being a goal scorer. Horton isn't the only player on this team turning the puck over--far from it. Regarding Horton rubbing off on the "young" players. Horton himself is young. What young players are you talking about? Frolik? he doesn't seem to have any issues that a sophomore shouldn't have. Repik? McArdle? Oreskovich? Which young players is he rubbing off on? (And please or the love of god don't say Matthias. that could possibly be one of the dumbest things ever said.)

Hey Clash, While I agree with you i your extensive write up, for all of that to happen, you have to get rid of Management first, as they do not have a Winning mentality, they are just "sucking the blood out of the franchise" until probably they have to move the team out of Florida, they are concerned every single dollar they can get of any empty floor or wall space in the arena.
If they had a good hockey team able to make the playoffs year after year, those seats would be filled and they would a loyal following who then they could sell them Soda and Popcorn for $50.00 a game.
The Today mentality of this Ownership will not allow any of this to happen, I would make too much sense to them, so ...let's dream on.

Dude, I have known the methodology of this ownership since 2004, when I got banned from Hockey's Future website for being correct too often and answering people when asked why I was hostile towards ownership and management. I'd get attacked for the same thing over and over. I disagreed with the fashion Martin AND Keenan were hired. I said Martin would KILL any offensive ability of the team. I said the team would get much older fast and how the younger guys would be cast off, which happened as much as many will deny it. I said Olesz was a third liner. I predicted before the lockout Luongo wanted out of town, especially with the arrival of Keenan. I said after Luongo left, the fans would chastise Bouwmeester and run him out of town.

I said then I was boycotting the franchise, as I would never buy a ticket again. I haven't bought a single ticket to a game, nor have I taken tickets from people who have bought them who had season tix. Have I been to games? Sure, but I haven't bought a single thing in the arena. I haven't been to any concerts at their venues. I said back then the only way things would change is if people stopped buying their BS and buying tickets. 5 years later, nothing has changed except for a few names.

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