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GaySoFla.com remembers Lawrence "Larry" King - A Young Hero

From GaySoFla.com:

BY DAVID L. WYLIE

According to friends and family, Lawrence “Larry” King should be remembered as a brave young man who was willing to endure being ridiculed and ostracized for just being himself. A public memorial service for King, 15, is scheduled for 3 p.m. Friday at Westminster Presbyterian Church in Port Hueneme, California. This week King’s life is also being celebrated at scores of candlelight vigils and gatherings across the United States and around the world.

Lawrence “Larry” Fobes King was born on January 13, 1993 to Greg & Dawn King. Described by his father as headstrong, confident and sweet, Larry loved to sing. “He had a very gifted voice,” his father said.
In fact, Lawrence had spent a considerable amount of time studying the Star Spangled Banner. He had hopes of singing it at his little brother’s baseball games. Friends had encouraged Lawrence to try out for American Idol.
Lawrence also had a special bond with animals and had built a special connection with a stray dog named Jasmine. “She’d fetch for Larry, but anyone else that tried to come near her she’d run,” remembers Greg.
According to students at his school, Lawrence King was openly gay and he was teased often by other students because of his nonconformist behavior and style of dress.
Lawrence King’s young life was tragically ended when he was shot in the head one week ago (February 12, 2008) in a classroom at E.O. Green Middle School in Oxnard, California. He was pronounced brain-dead the next day. Lawrence King was taken off a ventilator late February 14.
Lawrence King’s family decided to donate his organs. Because of his rare type-A blood, Lawrence King will live on through the donation of seven vital organs. According to his father, a young child received Lawrence’s heart on Valentine’s Day. As details emerged of Lawrence’s passing, the hearts of thousands around the world were touched by this senseless tragedy. In death his life has made an indelible mark upon the world.
Witnesses identified the shooter as a classmate, Brandon McInerney, 14. The young man was arrested shortly after the shooting and has been charged with first-degree murder and the use of a firearm to commit a crime. He is also being charged with a hate crime.
The family of Lawrence King has refused to comment on the shooting investigation or anything relating to Lawrence’s struggles. They would rather focus on celebrating their son’s life. Besides his mother and father, Lawrence King is survived by his younger brother, two older brothers and an older sister.
On Saturday, February 16, over 1000 young people turned out Saturday for a hastily organized peace march to remember Lawrence King. Police, school officials and even the two high school sophomores who organized the event were surprised by the turnout. Through word of mouth, fliers, text messages and MySpace Bulletins, the youth of Oxnard heard about the event and they came. They came to celebrate Lawrence’s life and they came to plea for tolerance on school campuses for those who are different. The “peace circle” formed at Plaza Park in downtown Oxnard was made up of Goths and Punks and Skaters. Their presence sent a clear and simple message to the world. The hate and violence must stop.
“What he did was really brave-to wear makeup and high-heeled boots,” Erin King, 12, told the Los Angeles Times. Mings, who hung out with Lawrence at school, said he was an outgoing and funny boy who stood his ground. “When people came up and started punking him, he just stood up for himself,” Ming said.
In the weeks and months to come there will be those that will cite the killing of Lawrence King as they debate the merits of passing federal hate crime legislation. There will be ample opportunity to hold the main stream media accountable for their willingness to sweep this story ‘under the rug’. Hopefully this tragedy will prompt educators to revisit their policies and procedures on bullying and this killing will move parents to sit down and have a long and serious discussion with their children about the idea of the importance of acceptance in a civilized society.
But for now we should mourn the passing of a life cut short at such a young age. The possibilities never realized, the dreams never achieved and the potential never even given a chance...all these were lost when Lawrence King was taken. We should pause to remember the life of this child of God, created in the Divine’s own image, molded by the Creator’s very hands. Let’s celebrate the courage of this young man and let’s encourage our children to emulate his willingness to be true to himself, even in the face of adversity. Lawrence “Larry” King, the epitome of the word HERO…
Martin Luther King said, “Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” Let’s drive out the darkness of violence by sharing rays of hope and love. Gaysofla.com readers are encouraged to take a moment to sign the internet condolence book set up by Lawrence King’s family at Remember Larry or visit Remembering Lawrence for information about gatherings and vigils around the country that are being organized to remember and celebrate the life of this young man.

David L. Wylie is the Senior Editor of Gaysofla.com The information for this memorial was compiled from printed news reports and interviews with King family members. Gasofla.com is south
Florida’s premier online media outlet for the LGBT community. Wylie can be reached at david@gaysofla.com

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I am deeply touched by this carnage and the untimely passing of Lawrence King. I could not help but shed tears for this young man who simply wanted to live his life. I can never understand why some people would not just live and let live. Lawrence, your spirit lives on. I do hope that humanity has learnt a great lesson for the sacrifice you made. Your courage and desire to live as you deemed fit is inspiration to all others who for one reason or another cannot openly make a declaration of freedon the way you did. Adieux, young man of courage!

Well said Mr. Wylie
A very moving tribute to a very brave young man

Another homo bites the dust. At least the world is spared another fruit cake from getting aids and giving it to everyone else.

RE: Jeff's Comments-And there u have it people. This is the type of attitude that feeds the hate. I can only pray Jeff that if you ever face the loss of a loved one, people will not be as cruel to you as you seem to be.

Jordan:

Been there, done that. Look the boy brought it on himself. You call him a hero wearing makeup? I call him a moron for doing it in public and bringing the wrath down on his head.

Not everybody likes you people to begin with. What this kid did was tantamount to a Jew in WWII going to a nightclub full of Nazi's and standing on the table proclaiming he is a Jew. Didn't really work out back then, certainly doesn't work very well now.

He got blown away. His fault. He isn't a hero.

Re: Jeff's Comments

Boy, for a person who is full of hateful intolerance of minorities & gender differences and obviously" Not" a resident from this earth, you're on this website twice. Hmmm...You got a lot of time on your hands. Go back to your planet where there is nobody and you will feel a whole lot better. We won't miss you!

R.I.P Lawrence King, My condolences for the King family

Re: Jeff's Comments

Boy, for a person who is full of hateful intolerance of minorities & gender differences and obviously" Not" a resident from this earth, you're on this website twice. Hmmm...You got a lot of time on your hands. Go back to your planet where there is nobody and you will feel a whole lot better. We won't miss you!

R.I.P Lawrence King, My condolences for the King family

Jeff,

Thanks for sharing the Christian/NRA perspective to this tragic story.

"Look the boy brought it on himself."

No boy brings anything upon himself. No one deserves to die. What a complete asshole.

"You call him a hero wearing makeup? I call him a moron for doing it in public and bringing the wrath down on his head."

In this country people are supposed to be able to wear whatever they goddamn please without being shot because you didn't like it. You are a moron for thinking people have the right to shoot others with whom they disagree with their style of clothing. Back to red-raggers and blue-raggers. HOW old are you?

"Not everybody likes you people to begin with. What this kid did was tantamount to a Jew in WWII going to a nightclub full of Nazi's and standing on the table proclaiming he is a Jew. Didn't really work out back then, certainly doesn't work very well now."

Again. Are you advocating shooting people merely because you don't like them?

And how is it you even bring up the Jew analogy? Are you a Jew hater? Is this Nazi Germany we're living in? Larry didn't proclaim anything, he just wore his clothes and some homo-phobe shot him. And this is OK? Because YOU think that wearing what you want should get you shot in this country? Maybe I don't like you. Maybe it should be OK for me to shoot you then? How does that sound?

"He got blown away. His fault. He isn't a hero."

This boy was just wearing what he wanted. He was brave in the face of adversity. It wasn't his fault some mis-raised child took his life.

I wouldn't liken him to the Jew going to a Nazi bar, standing at a table and proclaiming himself to be a Jew.

Rather, I would compare him to the Jew who knows he was being targeted for practice, and who would have rather died standing than sitting down.

This boy is a hero whether Nazi Homophobics like you like it or not.

I hope this boy rest in peace, and may his murderer get his comeupance.

This is, after all, the USA, NOT Nazi Germany.

Good day to you.

R.I.P Lawrence King, My condolences for the King family.

Brave, kind, specail....

Tragic

No words just sadness !

This story of history is just wrong...
America should get that!
All you sick barstads that come here to write sick things should be ashamed the world is watching and is not impressed !

People must be free to be who they are !!!!!!!

Hmmm: G.D. Should learn how not to double post.

Chip: Never said I was Christian nor did I mention the NRA. Thanks for playing but do try again.

Joe: People are free do as they please however there are consequences. You advocate a consequence free lifestyle. He wanted to be gay. He wanted to experience it. Frankly, he got more than he bargained for. The consequences for being gay was that someone would take deep offense. It was a simple roll of the dice whether it resulted in a beat down or a gun down. Kid lost and lost in spades. If he didn't get blown away, then he would have been beaten within an inch of his life. If not that, it would have been something else. Besides, being a homo is genetic suicide anyway. So it really doesn't matter how he died as he was a dead man walking already.

Yes Jeff and you choose to be white, black people choose to be black, asians choose to be asian get real you mong head! People are who they are..... its that simple.

The only choice here Jeff was yours to be an ignorant F**k witt. I hope you don't breed. Where do you live Jeff ? You wouldn't last a second down under!

When did you choose to be straight Jeff ? Why don't you try for a week to be gay ? If its a choice it should be easy yeah ?

Grow the f**k up!

Where you abused as a child Jeff ? Do you know that pedophiles have nothing to do with sexuality its a power thing ? If thats where your hate comes from I'm sorry for you! 89% of pedophiles are straight Jeff! If its not whats with all the hate ?

"He wanted to be gay. He wanted to experience it."-Jeff

He was 15 he wanted to be honest Jeff. Gay is not an action its who he was. Sex is sex straight or gay. So what do you mean he wanted to experience it ? Did you know him ? We don't even know if the poor kid got to love anyone or to be loved back!

You really are one sick hateful puppy, so weak and pathetic posting your hate posts while you hide behind your keyboard!

-shane

Hey Steve Rothaus just wanted to say that i think its pretty sick of you to watermark the kids photo like its some short of ad for you guys.... Wise up its a dead boy not an ad !

A few things: I've pulled Jeff's most recent post because it crossed the line. Good-bye Jeff.

Shane, as for the watermarks on the pictures, please direct those comments to the people at gaysofla.com. It's a new website here in South Florida and the post came from there. (Click the gaysofla link a the top of the posting.)

Thanks.

Steve Rothaus

Sorry Steve my bad ! I think you should have left the posts the world need to know what people are really like and that the kid who did this to Lawrence learnt or thought it was ok from someone -shane

Again Sorry Steve

Ps Message sent to the right target now Steve!

Shane, I reposted Jeff's comments so you and everyone could read them.

What do the rest of you think? Should Jeff's comments be posted or not?

Steve Rothaus

Well the standard attack pattern of any liberal is this: anything you disagree with should be censored, pulled, and immediately labeled hate speech.

So pull the comments. It makes no difference to me one bit. You take being gay as if it is the only thing in your life that matters and everyone else be damned. It matters not to you that people are offended or simply prefer you to keep to yourself. As long as you can shove it down other people's throats while claiming you are a victim.

Now for clarity: I never said I wished the kid dead. I said he got a consequence for it. No different than me being straight and being irresponsible with the opposite sex. I will also put this out there: I have more respect for the person who is a transsexual or transgendered than I do for a person who is gay. Why? Because it takes nads (no pun intended)to admit something is wrong and do what they can to fix it.

Gays never admit that they have a mental issue. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. Yet you fail to understand that gays are a simple minority. Yet you act like you rule the world. You don't. You give God the middle finger (any wonder why so many gays are athiest?) and run to science. Yet to this day science has yet to find your "gay" gene. I find it humorous we can diagnose the imbalances for a TS/TG chemically, genetically, but yet with gays, it is a blank or suspect.

I have a standing bet with a group of people and the bet is this: If science was to find the cure for being gay, would you take the cure? My answer was "No". Reason: You couldn't play victim anymore.

Jeff,
You havent answered any of my questions ? Why not did it touch a nerve ? Whats your deal ? Where does the hate come from ? Bible referance ?

Ill share this email I recived with you Jeff.

What happens when things are taken literally.....

Subject: Oh no, not another abomination!

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a U.S. radio personality who dispenses advice> to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.

The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a U.S. resident,which was posted on the Internet. It's informative:

Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1: 9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24.

The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations.

A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.

Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27.
How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?
Lev.24: 10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.> 20:14)? I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your Devoted Fan,

I think it kinda somes up that point!

Dont you see you are making people victims of your hate and/or fear ?

People are who they are! Your country has a messed up record with all this stuff You guys used to think that Black people could be traded and sold and that were they to marry it would cheapen Marriage! Now Black folk can marry in those verry same churchs that thought and preached those stupid thoughts ! Get with the times Jeff Live and Let... Live!

People like you make people like this kid that did this to Lawrence from your hate his action came. He and Lawrance are victims of the hate you preach while hiding behind your keyboard!

Shane,

First off, I did not make that kid shoot that other kid. That was his decision and his alone. Again you use the word hate because I disagree with how you ram your lifestyle down our throats.

To address your Biblical sarcasm:

"1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1: 9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?"

No because it would murder. Report it.

"2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?"

It's called a dowry. Whatever you feel is fair because she is probably going to rape the man out of every penny anyway. Might as well get yours.

"3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24.

The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence."

You seriously cannot tell when a woman is menstruating? Oh wait, your gay, you prefer skid marks.

"4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations.

A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?"

Who the hell wants to own Canada? Especially with Quebec making it look bad.

"5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.

Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?"

God was the first Teamster president. Can you blame him for not wanting you to work on HIS day? However, Jesus didn't have a problem with it and God really didn't go out of his way to smite the planet for working on Sabbath.

"6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?"

Consider the time they lived in. Cooking was survival not an art. Shellfish were unclean simply due to the various virus they contained and they could kill a person if they were not properly cooked.

"7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?"

No. No one in their right mind would want a blind person next to the candles near the altar. You know, that whole burn to the death thing is a downer.

"8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27.
How should they die?"

Forbidden is the operative word. Nothing about killing. Try again.

"9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?"

I believe they meant the skin of the pig that is still attached to the rotting carcass. Once removed from the carcass, I am quite sure it is ok.

"10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend)."

Wrong blend. It was wool and linen.

"He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?Lev.24: 10-16.Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.> 20:14)?"

It's more of a personal choice I believe. Although any man who does sleep with his mother in law should be put to death for being a putz.

Now that your attempt at droll sarcasm is out of the way, I will answer your question about why I despise homosexuals. We are men. It is a simple answer. Men. If you prefer a sausage fest, then you give up what it is to be a man. We are about power, confidence, and supremacy. You bend over for another man or drop to your knees for another man, you are no man, you are a slave. Property.

You make this kid into a hero for wearing makeup. That is the one thing that sets me off about you gays. Every gay that does something that gets himself whacked (no pun intended) is an automatic hero. You cheapen the word and the meaning. Sorry being gay doesn't make you a hero. It makes you a target. If you can't see that, you never will.

And like I said, you have become so enamored with being a victim, you feel in love with tyranny. You demand hate crimes for everyone but yourselves. You who are a minority that moved against God and creation. You who hate the breeders as you call us and you foist upon us your need to be "special" and "tolerated". You demand we "tolerate" you.

See, I never cared what gays did. Until they started passing laws that gave you special rights above the citizens of my nation. Protected class that can do no wrong. Rather than keep your business to yourself, you forced us to accept you and tolerate you. You forced us to put forth our children so our children can be indoctrinated in tolerance. Tyranny is the simple word. If I choose to like you or not, it is my business. Not for you to go crying to government for intervention because you did not get a birthday party invitation. My war began with you when you made war with us.


Jeff,
I don't recall stating my sexual orientation. So it a bit presumptive of you to claim to know what that is.. You didn't choose your eye color and niether did I. People are who they are it sjust that simple.

So your hate comes down to sex and power ? That a prety weak argument! Sex is sex dude. Im guessing you have an unhappy partner or your single other wise Im sure you've been on your knees Jeff. people love who they love its not just a sex thing jeff!

That has nothing to do with power Jeff. I think you should hang out with some gay folk because you view is really warped.

What age do you choose to be straight ?

How did you make the choice ?

What did you think about when you made up your mind ?

How much time did you spend on the decision ?

"First off, I did not make that kid shoot that other kid. That was his decision and his alone. Again you use the word hate because I disagree with how you ram your lifestyle down our throats."-jeff

Jeff how can you not say the following is hate:

"Another homo bites the dust. At least the world is spared another fruit cake from getting aids and giving it to everyone else"

Your talking about a 15 year old boy... Its pretty f**ken hatefull Jeff As well as cold and illinformed and heartless!

"He got blown away. His fault."-Jeff

Again it a 15 year old boy.... If you cant see that what you wrote is hate then you really have mental problems.

"You call him a hero wearing makeup?"-Jeff

Who is your favoriate TV star, Sports star, Sports commentator televangelist ? They all wear makeup dude.

Im not calling him a hero I didn't know him but I would absolutely call him brave. He choose not to lie about who he was and say to a world, that has people in it like you and the boy that killed him, that he is who he is. He spoke and lived his truth..I think thats very honourable.


You've lost me on the victim thing ?? Im no ones victim. Im also no one victimizer. Can you say that ?

You see I feel sorry for you Jeff I dont know who taught you to be such a little man to take joy in comenting in such a way against a dead kid and think it ok to do so while hidding behind a keyboard and a bible that even you find silly! Who messed you up so much ? Its the same question I have for the kid that killed lawrance! You are both victims of stupidity, ignorance and hate!

"My war began with you when you made war with us"-Jeff

What war are you talking about ? How old are you dude ?

When I first red your posts I wanted to smack the stupid outa you! But now I wanna get you help. Do you guys have that saying over there "Twenty cents short of a dollar" ? I think that sums you up!

"tolerated" is a stupid word I think people should just accept people for who they are as long as there not hurting anyone.


Wow. Where do I begin...

Regarding the watermark...all photos posted at gaysofla.com are watermarked, branded if you will. Since we made no money off posting the article or photos, we do not view the watermark as an ad. usually 'ad' equals some kind of compensation.

Secondly, as to whether or not this young man should be considered a hero...Absolutely. He had more backbone for living his life the way he wanted and being true to himself than most of us will ever have. His friends told reporters that he stood up for himself when other kids 'punked' him. He was a hero.

Finally, as far as this Jeff is concerned: He sure has a lot of time on his hands, cruisising the gay section of Miami Herald. I was told sometime ago, in this forum, not to go to battle of wits with an unarmed man, so Jeff, just know that your words have consequences. A good example...the two most recent hate crimes here in south Florida....one resulting in murder. While some may view your ranting as protected free speech from a mad man, others actually believe what you say and may take it a step further.

Regards & Respect (Except Jeff),
David

As I read some of the postings, I can't help but to think how ignorant people really are and and how affraid they are too. NO ONE should hurt or kill anyone for being who they are. Its like straight people being stright. Can you just imagine if there were straight bashing??? and would't it be assanine to think or say "Well they should have seen it coming"?? It never cease to amaze me how stupid people are in this hateful world. If it was your kid, I STRONGLY believe anyone who loves their child wouldn't be quick to say, well they got what they deserve. I feel for this kid and his family. What also sad that the killer is only 14 years old. There should be tons of postings critizing his parents and creating a monster. But we can't say that because its wrong also. HE IS GOING TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME in jail for doing something that could have been avoided. Now his youth is domed!

Hi David,
Im not looking for a fight with you...Im sure given people Jeff you get enough s**t, Im sure your proberly a nice guy..

However I do personally find your reply disingenuous, you and I know the difference bettwen ads and ad sales. An ad is used to raise awareness of a product of service. How would you feel if I watermarked several photos of your loved one had they passed ? I think for everone that should be the starting point how would you like to be treated ?

I saw the story here in Australia on CNN AC360 when I googled it this was the only link to the story.. (I find that really odd. It would be major news had it happened over here) So with that in mind I give you a ton of praise for putting the story together.

I truley feel the watermarks are tasteless I think you do too!

Regards shane


Dave,

"Secondly, as to whether or not this young man should be considered a hero...Absolutely."

Wow fighting with kids because he wore makeup and heels makes him a hero? He got shot for it. Hero's don't go looking for trouble. They shy away from it. Heroes are not in your face type of people and disrespectful either.

High school is not a social club. If he wanted to play barbie with his other fag friends, he had his house, their house, somebody's house to do that in. He brought his crap to school, a place of learning mind you, and it was disruptive. Unfortunately, it cost him his life.

"He had more backbone for living his life the way he wanted and being true to himself than most of us will ever have."

Judging from the picture, looks like he got boned from the backside a lot. Now he has a high lead quantity as well. Hey if smoking some dude's pole makes you true to yourself, have at it with your bad self. Just don't expect people to love you for it.

"His friends told reporters that he stood up for himself when other kids 'punked' him. He was a hero."

Ahem...he stood up, got shot. He got the punked ultimately. Kinda hard to be a hero when you bring a purse to a gunfight.

You don't want to be beaten or murdered by some yo-yo you don't know? Try this for size: be nice. Instead of jamming your "gay culture" in everyone's face and demanding that we all love you, try being nice. In other words, if people don't care for you, leave them be. If they want to be friends, then you get them. When you wage war on them to force them into believing your need to hump a man's pooper is completely normal, then you have a problem.

Just out of curiosity, can any of you gay types answer a simple question? What is it about a man's rear and his poop you find so attractive that you risk every possible disease to go play with it?

Jeff,
Smoke my pole !!!
You really are a sad miserable,ignorant, little fuck. If you really want a war post your address Ill come pay you a visit! Im not shy of travel !

You seem way to interested in gay sex to be straight ? Maybe bi ? It seems like your projecting self hate onto this kid ?

Is it really hate or is it jealousy that this 15 year old boy had more courage than you to be himself.

Sexually transmited diseases do not discriminate they will infect straight or gay. In Australia the people most at risk are hetrosexual females 18-30 Im guessing its the same in the states (?)

I dont think any gay guy or girl is asking you to love them Jeff. Im afraid for your sake stupidity weakness and people that take joy in the death of a 15 year old kid is not really what anyone would be looking for !

"Try this for size: be nice. Instead of jamming your "gay culture" in everyone's face and demanding that we all love you, try being nice. In other words, if people don't care for you, leave them be"-Jeff

With the change of two words jeff swollow your own advise!

Try this for size: be nice. Instead of jamming your "anti-gay culture" in everyone's face and demanding that we all love you, try being nice. In other words, if people don't care for you, leave them be"-shane

Gay people are not trying to convert you Jeff there not asking you to love them just to accept them as you would any other person! You have the choice weather you want to carry on the hate of people who have done nothing to you, caused you no harm to continue with the stupidity. Or just let people be.

Im sure theres alot of straight people that have caused you grief in your life I cant imagaine that you would wish there kids dead and make stupid coments about it on a website! The pleasure you express in the death of a 15 year old boy who did nothing to no one is really sick can you see that ?

Live and let live Jeff! If you want to be a hero Jeff maybe you should try sticking up for gay people when people give them shit theres no courage in just joining the pact.

Shane,

Do I take pleasure from the death of this 15yr old? No. Do I really care he got blown away? No. Am concerned? Not really. I am indifferent to it. He wanted to play with the big boys and got more than his ass handed to him. It is what it is: unfortunate.

"Smoke my pole !!!"

No thanks. Not my cup of tea.

"You really are a sad miserable,"

Actually I am very happy.

"ignorant,"

The only person who is ignorant is the person who believes a 10% gay minority should be allowed to rewrite the rules of marriage, family, and society as a whole.

"little fuck."

Not really. Standard white guy issue. And I use it to please my woman. You know, woman, the hideous creature you fear so much but gave birth to you. That one.

"If you really want a war post your address Ill come pay you a visit! Im not shy of travel !"

Aww poor, poor, liberal. Upset that I am not taking this boy's death hard? You made my point. You can't handle it when someone opposes you. So you curse, jump up and down, and toss a temper tantrum and even toss in a veiled threat if I don't agree with you. Ok. I'll kick it up a notch just for you Aussie. Between you and your jackeroo shagging boyfriend, you two can come over to Houston, Texas. In case you lads down under don't own a globe, it's way, way, way west of the Gold Coast.

"You seem way to interested in gay sex to be straight ? Maybe bi ?"

Ohh I love this game! Anyone who disagrees with a liberal and a homo must be a homo himself. God forbid we all have a different opinion on what we like or dislike. You liberal types sure love to do everyone elses thinking. Sheesh.

"It seems like your projecting self hate onto this kid ?"

Self hate? Really son, is that the best you can do?

"Is it really hate or is it jealousy that this 15 year old boy had more courage than you to be himself."

Sorry wearing makeup doesn't constitute courage. He wanted to be a rebel. He got hammered for it.

"Sexually transmited diseases do not discriminate they will infect straight or gay. In Australia the people most at risk are hetrosexual females 18-30 Im guessing its the same in the states (?)"

You are correct to a degree. AIDS had an original name. A name gays don't like to talk about. It was called GRID. Gay related Immune Deficiency. I wonder why.....? The name changed to AIDS in the eary 80's because gays became bi and gave their lovely disease to our women and children. Me personally, I would never have let it get that far. I would have quarentined every person with AIDS until the cure was found or they died. Children should not have to die for your craven lust and utter depravity. Which is another reason I sponsor wholesale removal of male children in a gay foster household to be removed and put somewhere else with a normal family.

An yes, with you guys shagging each other, I can see why the women go for the sheep. The sheep are probably more man than most gays anyway. Veal anyone?

"Try this for size: be nice. Instead of jamming your "anti-gay culture" in everyone's face and demanding that we all love you, try being nice. In other words, if people don't care for you, leave them be"-shane"

Ask yourself the question: Why is there an anti-gay culture? I don't know, maybe it is those stupid gay pride parades where you force entire cities to drag people who don't want to be there to participate? Maybe because people don't really give a damn what you monkeys do in the privacy of your home? You cry to us about that but then you throw it in our face and expect us to accept you. Hell no. Take your crap back to the house where it belongs. You want blame your lack of morals and values on the fact that animals are gay too, more power to you. Keep it away from us. Do that and then guess what? Anti-gay culture is gone.

"Gay people are not trying to convert you Jeff there not asking you to love them just to accept them as you would any other person!"

I call shenanigans on that. Simple reason, if that was the case, your kind would not be tripping over yourselves to go to court to sue for special rights above others. Lawmakers would not be bribed or purchased by your kind to create hate crimes or thought crimes for everyone but you. You demand we acknowledge you and give you credence in what you do. If we disagree, we should be jailed. That is what your kind wants. You have your hooks in our children trying to teach our kids that being gay is normal as night and day and you know damn well it is wrong as hell. You don't care. You could kill us all and probably would in order to have a rainbow planet.

"You have the choice weather you want to carry on the hate of people who have done nothing to you, caused you no harm to continue with the stupidity. Or just let people be."

I agree with that. Get your hooks our of my kids, get your gay crap out of my schools. Keep it to yourself and you got no issues with me.

"you should try sticking up for gay people when people give them shit theres no courage in just joining the pact."

I see no reason to stick up for them as long as they insist on sticking it to us or in us and our kids.

Jeff,

Well look who's got all his feather in a bunch! So you can give shit but you cant take it ! WEAK
Look how angry you are.

The Gays are taking over LOL get over it ya fool!
I know Texas very well been there lots! Ill be there again in July. Think your tough Post your address! Im guessing your a wacko from waco ??

Aids was developed by your government as a bio weapon Jeff look it up for yourself DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS FOR 1970 H.B. 15090

TUESDAY, JULY 1, 1969

SYNTHETIC BIOLOGICAL AGENTS

There are two things about the biological agent field I would like to mention. One is the possibility of technological surprise. Molecular biology is a field that is advancing very rapidly and eminent biologists believe that within a period of 5 to 10 years it would be possible to produce a synthetic biological agent, an agent that does not naturally exist and for which no natural immunity could have been acquired.
MR. SIKES. Are we doing any work in that field?
DR. MACARTHUR. We are not.
MR. SIKES. Why not? Lack of money or lack of interest?
DR. MACARTHUR. Certainly not lack of interest.
MR. SIKES. Would you provide for our records information on what would be required, what the advantages of such a program would be, the time and the cost involved?
DR. MACARTHUR. We will be very happy to.
(The information follows:)

The dramatic progress being made in the field of molecular biology led us to investigate the relevance of this field of science to biological warfare. A small group of experts considered this matter and provided the following observations:
1. All biological agents up the the present time are representatives of naturally occurring disease, and are thus known by scientists throughout the world. They are easily available to qualified scientists for research, either for offensive or defensive purposes.
2. Within the next 5 to 10 years, it would probably be possible to make a new infective microorganism which could differ in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organisms. Most important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease.
3. A research program to explore the feasibility of this could be completed in approximately 5 years at a total cost of $10 million.
4. It would be very difficult to establish such a program. Molecular biology is a relatively new science. There are not many highly competent scientists in the field. Almost all are in university laboratories, and they are generally adequately supported from sources other than DOD. However, it was considered possible to initiate an adequate program through the National Academy of Sciences - National Research Council (NAS-NRC).
The matter was discussed with the NAS-NRC, and tentative plans were plans were made to initiate the program. However decreasing funds in CB, growing criticism of the CB program, and our reluctance to involve the NAS-NRC in such a controversial endeavor have led us to postpone it for the past 2 years.
It is a highly controversial issue and there are many who believe such research should not be undertaken lest it lead to yet another method of massive killing of large populations. On the other hand, without the sure scientific knowledge that such a weapon is possible, and an understanding of the ways it could be done, there is little that can be done to devise defensive measures. Should an enemy develop it, there is little doubt that this is an important area of potential military technological inferiority in which there is no adequate research program.

And there you have it the birth of Aids Jeff your government choose to test it in Hati first case 1979 hetrosexual women as part of the experiment your government also tested it on prisions and homosexuals

The "introduction" of HIV into the homosexual community in America occurred the same year the hepatitis B vaccine experiment began in 1978 in New York City. In the experiment over a thousand young, promiscuous, homosexual and bisexual men were used as guinea pigs and injected with the vaccine. In 1979, a few months after the homosexual experiment began in Manhattan, the first case of AIDS appeared in a young gay Manhattan male. In 1980, thousands of additional gays were injected in subsequent hepatitis B vaccine experiments in San Francisco, Los Angeles and other U.S. cities.

We are taught about it in our schools Jeff.

Want a list of experiments your government has carried out on it people :

1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.
1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.
1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occured within poverty-striken black populations.
1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.
1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.
1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.
1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.
1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.
1945 "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.
1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.
1947 Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Comission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.
1947 The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.
1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.
1950 In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Franciso. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.
1951 Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.
1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.
1953 Joint Army-Navy-CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands of people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii.
1953 CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.
1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.
1955 Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.
1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.
1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.
1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the european population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.
1965 CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.
1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.
1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.
1966 U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant 'n-word' throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.
1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.
1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.
1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.
1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.
1970 United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.
1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).
1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.
1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.
1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine.
1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.
1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.
1986 A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.
1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.
1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.
1994 With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made.
1994 Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials included mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psychochemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War.

1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research.
1995 Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.
1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.
1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bioweapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.

"A name gays don't like to talk about. It was called GRID. Gay related Immune Deficiency. I wonder why.....?"

The CDC changed the name because it infected straights also much to the "shock" of your government.

"Aww poor, poor, liberal. Upset that I am not taking this boy's death hard?"

"Liberal" I thought on that Retard Bill O'riely
used that word. LOL Have you ever looked up it meaning in a dictionary ?

Its got nothing to do with taking it hard its a poor kid that was killed for being hinself. What color are you eyes ? Maybe we should kill everyone for having that color. thats how stupid your argument is!
It does however have everything to do with acting like a human. Only an asshole would make coments like you have about a kid!

"Special rights" Jeff or Equal rights ? Gay folk can adopt here and I think that is how it should be sexual orinatation has nothing to do with being a fit parent Jeff. Gay folk can't yet marry here they can have civil unions its only a mater of time and they will be 100% equal and thats how it should be! They will get there too in the US you guys a just a little slower in it all! But it will happen I promise !

Little man was refering to you as a person wasnt a question about your cock. I promise you no ones interested in it(put it away)!

What now you have issuses with gay pride parades ? Sydney has the biggest party for mardi gra 2-4 million people straight gay bi all partying together drinking and dancing in the streets, its one of the best parties you dont know what your missing. Thats probably a good thing for us.

Gays have always been here and always will Jeff get with it or get out the way!


Hey whats this line:
"Which is another reason I sponsor wholesale removal of male children in a gay foster household to be removed and put somewhere else with a normal family." about Jeff ?

So should female foster kids be removed from hetrosexual foster perents ?

"What is it about a man's rear and his poop you find so attractive that you risk every possible disease to go play with it?" The same reason I guess people like pussy and its wee and periods Jeff!

Gay or Straight STD's don't care !

[quote] Jeff,
Thanks for sharing the Christian/NRA perspective to this tragic story.
Posted by: chip | February 25, 2008 at 08:38 AM [quote]

Chip,
As a Christian and supporter of all of my Constitutional Rights, including the 2nd Ammendment Right (Amendment II- the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed), I find you catagorizing the perspectives of christians and the NRA, highly offensive.

No one knows who or what Jeff claims to be or not to be, because he did not say. I am not going to judge him, however, I will tell you that MY belief is that true christianity does not teach hatred of any kind, for any reason.
I was born and raised in church and continue my faith in God. I would love and be friends with a homosexual- in a heartbeat. What others, including "christians" think or feel about this is their problem.

My husband, father, grandfather, brother, uncle's, father in law, are all gun owners. They are all legally licensed and consider this a very serious responsibility. Fortunately, none of them have ever been placed in a dangerous situtation that required them to pull their gun.

Guns make me nervous, however had my father had one and been able to use it, he would have used a gun when I was 15, to ward off my 20 year old rapist. I sleep better at night knowing my spouse has a gun next to the bed locked inside a gun safe. I do not have a gun license, but I promise you that if I ever caught someone harming one of my children, I would not hesitate to shoot them, taking my chances that I may pay the price in jail later. I'd rather my child live with the memory of my protecting them than standing by allowing them to be scarred for life by memories of a personal invader thrusting themself on innocence.

Lastly, and certainly not least, my sympathy and prayers to the victim and his family, as well as the offender and his. It is a terrible shame prejudices and judgements lead to tragedies such as this. Even worse, that it happens among children.

Praying for Peace, Andrea <><

definitely not acceptable for someone to be killed for being gay!

what does a 15-year-old know about being gay anyway EXCEPT WHAT HE IS TAUGHT.

I think you can call any one a hero when their organs are donated. I hope that all 7 organs that were donated by this family allow someones life to continue!

Reading through all the comments on this page was almost painful. I respect people's freedom of speech, but we have to keep in mind that this child had family and friends that cared about him deeply. Sometimes (especially in times of mourning) opinions need to be kept to themselves. No one wants to listen to someone who rants and raves about their viewpoints. Be humble and respectful. Remember the saying, "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one".

Also remember that if you are arguing a point, you need to do your homework. Good example was a comment about pigs skin being unclean. For anyone that has studied Judaism they know that Jews do not consume pork. It has nothing to do with a rotting carcass. Pigs are consdiered unclean no matter what.

I saw that Christianity was brought up in a prior discussion. Now I don't really quote the Bible, but I remember that Jesus said something like "love thy brother and sisters". I don't recall a disclaimer that said if you were of a certain race, creed or sexuailty that you were excluded! Jesus preached of love, no matter who you are.

Jesus also discusses how a sin is a sin, no matter how big or small you think it is. Example: Stealing a pack of gum is considered in the eye's of God to be just as bad as killing someone or maybe even engaging in homosexual acts. We are all sinners and we all flawed. For those Christian thinkers, just remember who you will have to answer to eventually. Who will God look favorably on? Someone who loves? Or someone who is ignorant and hateful?

I post this not really as an opinion, but just as insight. Take it how you will.

Shane,

"Well look who's got all his feather in a bunch! So you can give shit but you cant take it ! WEAK
Look how angry you are."

As far as I can see, I am not the one who was foaming at the mouth wanting to fly over to the states to get into a fight. That would be you.

"The Gays are taking over LOL get over it ya fool!
I know Texas very well been there lots! Ill be there again in July. Think your tough Post your address! Im guessing your a wacko from waco ??"

You can't read can you? I said Houston, you end up with Waco. No wonder your gay, can't figure out which end is which and you go backwards.

So AIDS is something the government did, right? Had nothing to do with your penchant for farking poop? You play russian roulette with one of the potentially disease ridden parts of the human body and it's the government's fault?

How the hell is it the government's fault? We didn't tell you to be a loser and give up your ass to another man. Hell we did the opposite. But no, you had to do it your way and you got bit.

Look I know why you and the author of this blog (who looks like he has AFS btw) are gay. I knew a few of you in school. Look if you were a dweeb in high school and the your best accomplishment was art class and band, no beautiful girl is going to be impressed. Dude, you seem like an ok guy despite your lack of spelling prowess and I understand girls can be tricky. You can't play out of your league. Jocks can afford that, God knows I did and won a few too. But Shane, I feel your pain man. Look us jocks felt bad for you guys and we tried to set you straight but you don't listen. If the girl is out of your league, you got no chance, son, no chance. You got to start with the girl with the braces who is shy and work your way up.

Also, reading your post, you don't take rejection very well. The word "no" and "hell no" doesn't translate very well to you. Now I know the girls probably gave you the smackdown a couple of thousand times and finally some dude saw your wretched suicidal self wanting to end it all and he came over and introduced you to manlove, but you got to be a trooper.

Look, Dad, uncle, drunk relative, crossing guard, boy scout leader, whoever took you into the outback and had their way with you did you wrong friend. You got to step up and take the fight to them. Don't let them run you like this. Plenty of sweet, sweet Aussie chicks out there. Hell I feel in love with one in Hawaii years ago. Bluest eyes you ever saw and a personality to match. Nice lithe body, she didn't walk, she glides. Her legs were simply awesome (why do I have a craving for chicken right now?).

Anyway, Im tired dude and going to take a nap. And yes your right, gays are here. They always have been. They can be great people. Accept the fact that not every one likes you and stop trying to force us too and we have no problems. When you try to force laws on us to make us acknowledge you, well now you got a problem. Also, please remember something: use protection. I really would hate for half the world to die from AIDS part 2 because you didn't.

Your so silly Jeff if you were not so hateful it would be funny. As I told you already I havent stated my sexual orientation Its not importatant, I didnt choose it like you didnt choose yours and Steve Rothaus didnt choose his. We all are who we are meant to be.

You comments about the Jocks and things we dont have those stupid devides in our schools Jeff If you play sports you play sports. Everyone who wants to plays sports can play. Our schools are not like your's. We have never had a highschool shooting. Never.

Now your comments about me I find funny Id be happy to compare my partner to yours... Id be happy to compare my bank balance to yours. Happy to compare my acivements to yours. again even happy to compare my sporting medals to yours Jeff. We have already compared our humanity and you have been found lacking. Am I perect NO the fact I wanted and still partly do want to smack the stupid outa ya... proves that. But I still am way better just by the fact of how you speack of a dead child.

"So AIDS is something the government did, right!" Jeff

Glade you can admit the truth!

1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.
1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine.
1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.
1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.

"You play russian roulette with one of the potentially disease ridden parts of the human body and it's the government's fault?"-Jeff

You obviously didnt do well in science Jeff now wether you or I like the fact or not.. its true that the most germ and bacteria ridden part of the Human body is the vagina.... The second most germ and bacteria ridden part of the human body is the mouth. The third most germ and bacteria ridden part of the human body is the anus. Check with your doctor if you don't believe me.

Its known world wide that your government was responsible for aids and was presured into accepting responsiblity for it by nations around the world some years back I think you guys had B. Clinton in charge then (94 ?) (?) anyhow at the time your government declared AIDS a national security threat to allow it to free up money to pay for global prevention measures. By accepting finacial responsiblity while not publicly confirming it was responsible.

"As far as I can see, I am not the one who was foaming at the mouth wanting to fly over to the states to get into a fight. That would be you."Jeff

Would it ?

"My war began with you when you made war with us."

That kinda stupidity makes me angry... I admit it. You want a war with people who have done nothing to you..You wanna talk so stupid and ignorantly about a murdered 15 year old boy. I stand with the people on the otherside with my gay and straight brothers and sisters. If you were being bulied for being white Id stand up for you! You had no choose about your race and people have no choose in there sexual orientation. I judge a person by there deeds not there color or creed. People of the gay creed have always been good to me lots of people of the religous creed here at least have been good to me. Lots of athiest people have been good to me. Lots of assians have been good to me,Lots of Blacks have been good to me and so on.

As for the Waco or Houston Can I read ? Well sometimes lol I was hoping you would post your your address so I can stop by ;). But your just not that brave!

Ill be at InterContinental Houston 2222 W. LOOP-SOUTH HOUSTON, TX 77027 UNITED STATES July 8-21 If your close and wanna post your address ?

What difference does it make to you if two guys or girl get married ? If it makes people happy isnt that a good thing ? Is it because you prefer the illusion that homosexuality is about promiscuity ? Does it threaten you to understand its just like a straight relashionship were its about love ? That its not just about sex ?

"Look, Dad, uncle, drunk relative, crossing guard, boy scout leader, whoever took you into the outback and had their way with you did you wrong friend."-Jeff

Look at you projecting again !(?) LOL Silly Silly....

"I knew a few of you in school" Ha HA So what happened were you used and abused and kicked to the curb or just flatout rejected dude ?

I dont find Gay a bad word you wanna call me Gay you might be right you might be wrong. I dont find gay sex offensive.. Sex is sex... You wanna think I take it up the ass good for you!
You wanna think I suck cock again good for you! Spit swollow and gargle dude..balls to the chin mate... Same goes with straight sex.... I dont find either offensive.

Are you like brain dead dude STD have nothing to do with the type of sex you have ? Straight people have anal sex too mate! You and I have to love with a glove as much as anyone else!

Ps Kelly your point is absoultly true I stand corrected. He was more than just brave and courageous saving six peoples lives... He was a hero!


Shane,

Typical liberal. You blame everyone else for their dislike of you and what you do. OK fine. You know what, you and your kind will never admit when your wrong. You know what you do is disgusting and not natural. You people brought AIDS on your own head. Just like the kid who got his head shot off. You provoke that kind of response from people and you get off on it. Then you act all shocked when someone leaves a body behind.

To be honest, with all the innocents in the world infected by your deviancy and depravity, I seriously doubt there are enough gays in the world to balance the books of the lives you took. But you keep on thinking that the government did this. I mean hell, we had our first cases prior to 1981 and even 1978. I know you can't be bothered to look up the studies in microbiology for SIV/HIV. It is much easier to simply point to a government and say: they did it.

It is never your responsibility for anything you do in this world that brings wrath down. It is everyone's fault. I know that because you never answered the question: If we found a cure for your gayness, would you take it?

Every homo in this thread avoided the question like a vampire in sunlight. Because you and I both know, you made a choice. I live in the Woodlands, champ. Feel free to bring your bad ass down. Its 21 miles from BIA.

Jeff thank you for the compliment : )

Definition:Liberal

1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others

2. progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual

3. generous: freely giving money, time, or some other asset

4. generous in quantity: large in size or amount

5. culturally oriented: concerned with general cultural matters and broadening of the mind rather than professional or technical study

"I mean hell, we had our first cases prior to 1981"-Jeff

You are wrong first USA case was June 5, 1981.
Hati woman first case 1979 only determined after usa case.

That information came from your government! 1994 Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report of 50 years of experiments. Why he released the information ? Maybe he thought his family maybe held liabel for lawsuits But who knows ?

"know that because you never answered the question: If we found a cure for your gayness, would you take it?"-Jeff

If there was a cure for your straightness would you take it ?

If there was a cure for your whiteness would you take it ?

If there was a cure for vision would you take it ?

I dont think anyone answered because its a stupid question! Homosexuality is not a disease dude.

The monkey SIV does not infect humans and HIV-1 does not infect monkeys. Scinece has proven that Jeff. That story you were told about an man having sex with a monkey was just that Jeff a story. The only people who cary on that story are some seven day aventists! It doesnt stand up to the facts.

So grow it on up !

"It is much easier to simply point to a government and say: they did it."Jeff

They did!! Look up the documents yourself!

"To be honest, with all the innocents in the world infected by your deviancy and depravity, I seriously doubt there are enough gays in the world to balance the books of the lives you took."Jeff

To be honest, with all the innocents in the world infected by your deviancy and depravity, I seriously doubt there are enough American's in the world to balance the books for the lives you took.

Your government did it..... DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS FOR 1970 H.B. 15090

I have been reading with some facination the war of words going on between Shane and Jeff.
Although I agree in principle with what I see as the main point Jeff is trying to make, I find this exchange very childish on both parts. I can understand your frusteration Jeff, it does feel as though the "Gay Lifestyle" is being shoved very hard down our throats. I take comfort in the fact that there is absolutly no way we can be forced to accept something that God clearly did not create. We know for a fact that God created his children in the image of himself, he created Adam and Eve to populate the world. Man and Man/ Woman and Woman is NOT natural. If you go back and read all of the comments, mention of the lives of Larry AND Brandon slowly dissapear. You both have lost focus of the entire POINT, two lives were permanantly destroyed. Jeff take comfort in the fact that you know in your heart the truth, and you are lucky as the world is full of people who are lost and misguided, Larry included. That said I think God loved Larry very much, he created him after all. You can love a person but not the act. Shane all I can say is for a man who who hates the crime of violence that Larry indured, you are sure quick to jump at the chance to bring harm and violence to a person you have never met.

"Ill be at InterContinental Houston 2222 W. LOOP-SOUTH HOUSTON, TX 77027 UNITED STATES July 8-21 If your close and wanna post your address ? "

Both of you need to take some time away from the verbal attacks and then go back and read what you have written to eachother. This is not what Jesus would want. Please be kind and understand that God gave us the gift of free will, weather or not someone has made a concious decision to be homosexual, or life events/environment has unfortunately intervened on their lives, they still have free will. Jesus did not want people to HAVE to love him, he wanted them to freeley and willingly come to him for their salvation. All we can do is stick to our beliefs, know truth and love for God in our hearts, and not hurt each other. Let's let God be the Judge just like the Bible has taught. That being said as Christians (or those who just have similar views on Homosexuality) do not need to roll over and let the world walk all over us. Speak you mind and beliefs, don't let today's culture influence you, stick up for what God has taught us, just don't let it turn into childish and abusive banter. It gets us nowhere.

Cam,
I don't believe in your God. I don't judge you for it. I wouldn't support anyone killing you for it! If you believe God made man then he made homosexuals as well. People are who they are Cam !

Can you qoute the part in the bible which say Homosexuality is a sin ??

I again point too this for you:

What happens when things are taken literally.....

Subject: Oh no, not another abomination!

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a U.S. radio personality who dispenses advice> to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.

The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a U.S. resident,which was posted on the Internet. It's informative:

Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1: 9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24.

The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations.

A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.

Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27.
How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?
Lev.24: 10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.> 20:14)? I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

I have never said im perfect Cam I do the best i can.. I do get angry when someone talks about a dead 15 year old kid like Jeff has! You call it quick hey ? Seems to me there was some number of days before we got there Cam. If you think that talking of a dead child like that is Gods work your a mess.

You state:
"We know for a fact that God created his children in the image of himself, he created Adam and Eve to populate the world. Man and Man/ Woman and Woman is NOT natural."-Cam

We all know Man & Man, Woman & Woman is completly natural as is Man & Woman. All are beautiful!!!

"Do not need to roll over and let the world walk all over us."Cam

What does two people loving each other have to do with walking over you ?

You need to read up on your own beliefs:

Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Please pratice what you preach Cam!


Ruth 1:16-17 and 2:10-11 describe their close friendship Perhaps the best known passage from this book is Ruth 1:16-17 which is often read out during opposite-sex and same-sex marriage and union ceremonies:

"Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me." (NIV)

Ruth 1:14, referring to the relationship between Ruth and Naomi, mentions that "Ruth clave onto her." (KJV) The Hebrew word translated here as "clave" is identical to that used in the description of a heterosexual marriage in Genesis 2:24: " Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." (KJV)

Passages in 1 Samuel & 2 Samuel describe, among other events, a extremely close bond between David and Jonathan. Jonathan was the son of King Saul, and next in line for the throne. But Samuel anointed David to be the next king. This produced a strong conflict in the mind of Saul.

1 Samuel 18:1
"...Jonathan became one in spirit with David and he loved him as himself." (NIV)

"...the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (KJV)

1 Samuel 18:2
"From that day, Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his father's house." (NIV)

David left his parent's home and moved to Saul's where he would be with Jonathan. This is a strong indication that the relationship was extremely close. It echoes the passage marriage passage in Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

1 Samuel 18:3-4
"And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt." (NIV)

Since people in those days did not wear underwear, Jonathan stripped himself naked in front of David. That would be considered extremely unusual behavior (then and now) unless their relationship was physical.

1 Samuel 20:41
"After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with is face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together - but David wept the most." (NIV)

Other translations have a different ending to the verse: "...and they kissed one another and wept with one another, until David exceeded." (KJV)
"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David got control of himself." (Amplified Bible)
"and they sadly shook hands, tears running down their cheeks until David could weep no more." (Living Bible)
"They kissed each other and wept together until David got control of himself." (Modern Language)
"They kissed each other and wept aloud together." (New American Bible)
"Then David and Jonathan kissed each other. They cried together, but David cried the most." (New Century Version)
"Then they kissed one another and shed tears together, until David's grief was even greater than Jonathan's." (Revised English Bible)
"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David recovered himself." (Revised Standard Version)

2 Samuel 1:26
"I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."

In the society of ancient Israel, it was not considered proper for a man and woman to have a platonic relationship. Men and women rarely spoke to each other in public. Since David's only relationships with women would have been sexual in nature, then he must be referring to sexual love here. It would not make sense in this verse to compare platonic love for a man with sexual love for a woman; they are two completely different phenomena. It would appear that David is referring to his sexual love for Jonathan.

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination"
Leviticus 18:22

"Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"I don't believe in your God. I don't judge you for it."

As I previously stated I believe God gave you and everyone else he created a free will. Therefore if you don't believe in my God, I am fine with that. It is your right to believe what you want. As it is mine to believe what I want.

I do not claim to be an expert on the Bible. I do believe that the Old Testament was meant to guide the Jewish people. After Jesus came the new testament was created for us (the gentiles). The old testament is important for knowledge of our history, however when Christ died on the cross he took all of the sins of those living in that age with him. People could choose salvation and have their sins forgiven. The old Testament also talks of sacrificing animals to have your sins forgiven, which after Jesus came was no longer necessary. I believe that most of the passages you have questioned came from our Old Testament. I am sorry if this isn't clear enough, but as I have said I am not an expert on this.

I agree that it is very frusterating when someone is cold and indifferent to the death of a child. Where you and I disagree is not on the value of Larry's life, he was no more important or unimportant than any other human being. However I believe him to have been very lost and misguided. I never knew him, but I do know the God who created him. I believe that God loves him very much, it is no different than any other sin. Love the person, hate the sin.

I want to clairify that what I meant by quick, was not necessarily a time issue, The point was that whether it was an hour or a week, you were ready to hurt another human being because he thought different things than you. How does that make you any better than Brandon?

I am not sure where this came from:
"If you think that talking of a dead child like that is Gods work your a mess.-Shane"

I think all children deserve to be protected and loved, not once did I say this disgusting talk about a child is OK.

I am not perfect and I certainly don't have all of the answers. I am Christian and do the best I can with the knowledge I have. That said, it is impossible to stand up for your beliefs and express your opinion without some judgement. What I meant earlier is that God is the ultimate Judge, He has the final say, and that part is really none of mine or your business. Brandon is just like anyone who has committed murder, he has also broken the "Thou shalt not kill" commandment. If we as a society were to not judge them, we would have rapists and killers running our streets.

All I ask Shane if for you to take a look at the things you have written. Are they not judgmental towards individuals who think differently than you? Are they not hateful at times? Are they not abusive?

Shane's comments:
"mong head!"
"The only choice here Jeff was yours to be an ignorant F**k witt"
"Grow the f**k up!"
"You really are one sick hateful puppy, so weak and pathetic"
"You really are a sad miserable,ignorant, little fuck. If you really want a war post your address Ill come pay you a visit! Im not shy of travel ! "
"I wanted to smack the stupid outa you!"
"The Gays are taking over LOL get over it ya fool!"

Do these comments sound like the words of a man that is not hateful and judgemental?

Jeff's comments:
"Another homo bites the dust. At least the world is spared another fruit cake from getting aids and giving it to everyone else."

"He got blown away. His fault. He isn't a hero."

Take a look, is anyone better than the other? Name calling on each other solves nothing. How can anyone say that hate and judgement are wrong, yet be full of it themselves?


Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Again I am not perfect, but I do try hard to practice what I preach!

Cam,
Like I said I don't believe in your God. I have shown it some respect and read it!If you truly did the same you would understand it makes no statement that homosexuals are sinners!

The code of rules and behaviors in Leviticus does not apply to Christians. No Christian group I know demands full compliance with this ancient code of behavior. If you did you would have to keep kosher laws. Chritians don’t even demand compliance with the sexual rules in Leviticus. If you did, you would allow polygamy, which is lawful in Leviticus. Unless you are prepared to obey all the rules in Leviticus, you cannot blame homosexuals for not feeling bound to obey them. To point to these two verses and demand selective compliance is ludicrous.

"Corinthians 6:9 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders”

Male prostitutes and homosexual offenders. you can not condemn an entire orientation because of the prohibition of these specific acts!The Greek words Paul used in this passage include the word for a young, effeminate male prostitute and the word for the older man who paid to have sex with him. You can acknowledge that the bible condemns prostitution and a system where a younger man makes his living committing sex acts for money with older men. But you cannot condemn homosexuality in general because homosexual prostitution was condemned. Paul condemns many heterosexual acts in his writings, even in this very verse, yet we do not condemn heterosexuality.

Its clear to me that people who use the bible to justify their hate clearly have no respect for it!

You point to my words, I wrote them I stand by them ! Some may have been childish but I do not take them back I believed and felt them when I wrote them. I own them!

-Shane

Ps
"Do not need to roll over and let the world walk all over us."Cam

What does two people loving each other have to do with walking over you ?

Corinthians 6:9 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders”

"Male prostitutes and homosexual offenders. you can not condemn an entire orientation because of the prohibition of these specific acts- Shane"

Shane,

I understand where you are coming from in terms of the passage from Leviticus. You are correct in the fact that it is from the old testament and does not apply to Christians, however this passage:
Corinthians 6:9 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders”

still applies to us because it is in the new testament. Here is where things get sticky because of differing perspectives. I believe "homosexual offenders" to be the entire population of homosexuals, not a small specific group of prostitutes, why else would the two be separated.

"Its clear to me that people who use the bible to justify their hate clearly have no respect for it!-shane"

I find it strange the amount of times in your posting you use the word hate. I have never once said that I hate anyone. I can love the person, and hate the act. I have a great respect for the Bible, and for the people that God created. I find it insulting to think otherwise. I am okay with the fact that we don't think the same way, we are both using our free will. What I take issue with is that this very clearly seems to be a one way street. I am saying I don't hate you or any other human being, I am stating my beliefs and opinions as you have, yet somehow, this makes me a hateful person? This makes no sense to me. My words may condemn Homosexuality NOT people who believe themselves to be Gay. Your words condemn me because of the fact I am Christian. How does this make your beliefs better than mine?

"You point to my words, I wrote them I stand by them ! Some may have been childish but I do not take them back I believed and felt them when I wrote them. I own them!-shane"

Your right, you do own your words. My issue is that you don't seem to see that your words are no better than words Jeff used. They are equally hateful and judgemental. Again this is where that one way street comes in. As long as no one says anything bad about homosexuality they are ok, other wise they are hateful people. What happened to freedom of speech. As Christians we tolerate a lot of hate from Homosexuals, their supporters, and everyone in between, yet this has become acceptable. I may be naive, but why is one form of "hate" as you say better than another.

"Do not need to roll over and let the world walk all over us."Cam

I believe it is my duty as a child of God to stand up for the rights and beliefs of Christians everywhere. We have voices and we need to use them. You have the right to state your beliefs and use your voice, why should't I? Because my beliefs might hurt some one's feelings? Christians are hurt all the time too, there is no concern from anyone else. Two people loving each other has absolutly nothing to do with me, But it matters to my God as he is the one who created them. He is the one who created love, he wants us to love and be loved, there is a huge difference between love and lust.

As for your references about the relationships between Naomi and Ruth, and David and Jonathan, that is reaching pretty far to convince me that it had anything to do with sexuality at all. Naomi was Ruth's mother in law, and after she had lost her husband and children, and
Naomi lost her husband, the clung to each other for love and support, not unlike many friend or family love we experience today, it is natural. Ruth went on to marry and have children with Boaz. It mentions nothing about sexuality.

As for David and Jonathan

"...Jonathan became one in spirit with David and he loved him as himself." (NIV)

I love my sister-in-law as I love myself, does this make me a lesbian?

"...the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (KJV)"

Ditto


"And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt." (NIV)

To my understanding the robe that is spoken of, was a soldier's uniform. Such is the reference made to the sword and bow. David killed a Palestine man with his rock and his slingshot. He became worthy of being a soldier, Jonathan and Saul were leaders of the Army. Jonathan found David to be so brave he gave him his soldiers uniform. I don't see how any of this can be seen as something sexual. If you continue to read on you will see that David did indeed liked women. David was a man of God, God favored him.

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

Don't you think if God created people to be together regardless of gender, he would not have used the term man and wife. If it is truley not important whether or not it is male and female, he would have stated partner, person, companion, any other word. God chose the word wife, he created Adam and Eve, he made it so only man and woman could procreate, he did not make it possible for man and man or woman and woman to create children. If he created homosexuality why would he not have made it possible for them to have children? The reason is he created people, not homosexuals.

I understand that you and I come from very different perspectives, but I respect you as a child of God, whether or not you choose to accept his love. All I ask is for the same respect in return. My goal in posting these comments was not to convert anyone into believing anything I have to say, I believe it to be the truth. This is all I need to know. I don't advocate hate, I don't see how believing a homosexual was not created by God, and the fact it is a sinful act promotes poeple to kill others. Killing is also a sin, which makes it an equal sin to Homosexuality.

I am a sinner, you are a sinner, nobody on earth is perfect. Only God is. If a Homosexual went to God and asked to be forgiven, he/she would, just like anyone else who asks for forgivness. It is not just Gays who are sinning, it is prostitutes, pedolphiles, those who practice beastality, or any one else who is sexually immoral. I realize this is sounds very harsh, but it is the truth whether we like it or not. Don't get me wrong violating a child, is very different than two consenting adults, my point is that it is all sin. I am not even comparing the acts of homosexuality and Pedophilia to be the same thing, they are very very different.

I think I have said all I can on this subject, Somehow I have let the life of Larry and Brandon get lost in all of this, when they should be the centre of it. Nobody really knows exactly what went on between these two individuals, but somehow things went very wrong. The fact is that it is wrong to kill, no matter what the motivation, God is the ultimate Judge, we cannot take someones life into our own hands. I pray for both of these children. I hope that they find peace with God and themselves.

Cam,
I would question why having now stated yourself that you do not believe or live by Leviticus, why would you use that in an agrument ? Why would you seek to hold someone to a higher standered then yourself ?

Cam you have stated:

Corinthians 6:9 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders”

"Still applies to us because it is in the new testament. Here is where things get sticky because of differing perspectives. I believe "homosexual offenders" to be the entire population of homosexuals, not a small specific group of prostitutes, why else would the two be separated."-cam

The "homosexual offernders" were those old men who paid to have sex with the "male prostitutes"
they for sex with young boys which was how thoughs boys made there living.

I though I had made that clear earlier when i wrote:

The Greek words Paul used in this passage include the word for a young, effeminate male prostitute and the word for the older man who paid to have sex with him.

You choose to see what you want to see and that choice has consequence for all those who are born gay. It is used by people to justify their hate, to justify denying people equal rights, to treat people as second class citizens, to beat, to tease and in some cases as with Lawrence even to murder!

You need not take my word for it, I would point to the words of Jimmy Creech, senior pastor of the First United Methodist Church, in Omaha, Nebraska has concluded that: "...there was no understanding of sexual orientation in the culture and time when scripture was written. There was not even a word for 'homosexuality' or 'homosexual' in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, the original languages of scripture. There are biblical references that condemn same-sex sexual behavior, but they are all within contexts related to violence, idolatry, promiscuity and exploitation.

Careful reading within the historical setting reveals that it is the violence, idolatry, promiscuity and exploitation that is condemned, not the same-sex sexual behavior.

The same condemnation is given to opposite-sex sexual behavior that is violent, idolatrous, promiscuous and exploitative."

Cam you stated "I am a sinner, you are a sinner"
I respectfully disagree that is not how I view the world. I do not believe in yor God.
Im am not his child, I am the child of my parents. You choose to believe and I respect that.

"I find it strange the amount of times in your posting you use the word hate. I have never once said that I hate anyone."-Cam

Was it not you who said ?

"Love the person, hate the sin."-Cam

"I can love the person, and hate the act."-Cam

"The sin" and "the act" you hate is the persons right to love and be loved Cam.

When you hate "the sin" of homosexuality you hate the person! When you ask a person to give up there right to love who they love by one that loves them back because you feel its a sin. You would condem them to a misserable and lonley life. Without true joy or happiness! For your happiness ?

Who are you to much such judgement ? What buisness is it of your's ? Why would you choose to take away another humans right to love and happiness ?

No one would choose to be hated.

No one would choose to be condemed by a group of people who through their missunderstanding of some translation of an acient text. Which they choose to live by. That has saught to shame and misstreat a group of people based on such.

People are who they are and every bit as justified to and worthy of love as any straight person.

The bible contains three same sex relationships

Ruth and Naomi
David and Jonathan
Daniel and Ashpenaz

I note with interest your attempts to dismiss so quickly the words that you claim to live by! You have selectivly replied to some I feel you may need to re-read those sections with an open mind and an honest heart!


"As Christians we tolerate a lot of hate from Homosexuals, their supporters, and everyone in between, yet this has become acceptable. I may be naive, but why is one form of "hate" as you say better than another"-Cam

Cam it is your belief that:

Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Your actons... for a group of people who claim to believe and up hold those words... never seem to be inkeeping with such beliefs.

What harm does it do you if two people of the same sex love eachother and wish to be married ?

What harm does it do you if the wish to kiss ?

What harm does it do you if the wish to make love to each other ?
What right do you have to say "Man and Man/ Woman and Woman is NOT natural."-Cam

What right do you have to call Lawrance misgided ?

He knew his own truth better than you (or I)!

-Shane


Ps sorry for thr poor spelling and lack of clarity in parts I was at work while i was typing ealier!

My bad!


"Don't you think if God created people to be together regardless of gender, he would not have used the term man and wife ?"-Cam

The bible never had the term man and wife:

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

The word wife is a translation which has many meanings it could very well have meant partner or many other words.

The word for Marry was translated from "to cleave unto"

"If it is truley not important whether or not it is male and female, he would have stated partner, person, companion, any other word"-Cam

Your spot on any of those words may have been corect!

"I am not even comparing the acts of homosexuality and Pedophilia to be the same thing, they are very very different."-Cam

Then why would you choose to make them in the same sentence ? No gay person I know would condone Pedophilia the violation of a child nor would any gay person I know condone the abuse of a animal (beastality).

I have already ealier pointed out that more hetrosexuals are pedophiles (89% Australian Bureau of Statistics) I really question you to answer again with an honest heart why you choose to link homosexuality with those two forms of abuse when it is infact more a problem of the hetrosexual community (by some factor I also note) then the gay community ?

" believe it is my duty as a child of God to stand up for the rights and beliefs of Christians everywhere. We have voices and we need to use them. You have the right to state your beliefs and use your voice, why should't I? Because my beliefs might hurt some one's feelings? Christians are hurt all the time too, there is no concern from anyone else. Two people loving each other has absolutly nothing to do with me, But it matters to my God as he is the one who created them. He is the one who created love, he wants us to love and be loved, there is a huge difference between love and lust."-Cam

Your very statement answers your own question!

God wants eveeyone to love and be loved!!!

Everyone!

"You have the right to state your beliefs and use your voice, why should't I? Because my beliefs might hurt some one's feelings?"-Cam

So you condone hurting peoples fellings because yours have been hurt ?

Doesnt seem very "Christian"!

Just to make sure you dont miss them I will repost the words of Jimmy Creech, senior pastor of the First United Methodist Church, in Omaha, Nebraska who has concluded that: "...there was no understanding of sexual orientation in the culture and time when scripture was written. There was not even a word for 'homosexuality' or 'homosexual' in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, the original languages of scripture. There are biblical references that condemn same-sex sexual behavior, but they are all within contexts related to violence, idolatry, promiscuity and exploitation.

Careful reading within the historical setting reveals that it is the violence, idolatry, promiscuity and exploitation that is condemned, not the same-sex sexual behavior.

The same condemnation is given to opposite-sex sexual behavior that is violent, idolatrous, promiscuous and exploitative."

and

The Greek words Paul used in this passage include the word for a young, effeminate male prostitute and the word for the older man who paid to have sex with him.

-Shane



Wow, Land of the Free indeed! Jeff, are you proud to be an American? I have a feeling most americans are, but I would never be proud of the kind of double standards you show. I would be ashamed! You are no man, you are pathetic.

RIP Lawrence.

(btw I'm norwegian, not american)

"You choose to see what you want to see- Shane"

I believe that this applies to you as well.

I really wish you luck Shane, you are really going to need it. The time will come when you and I will be sitting in front of God for our judgements, and the truth will be known to us all. Like I said many times before I am not an expert on the Bible, I can only use the knowledge I have. Your interpretations on the Bible are far far fetched, I think YOU see the things you want to see. It is Ok by me that you don't see yourself as a child of God, your life is yours as is your eternity. If you choose not to concern yourself with it, that is your right. I have accepted Jesus as my savior, I have a great faith, whether or not you believe it. After some more research I come across the times of Soddom and Gamorrah, and look what God did to them. You can twist the word wife if you wish, however you can't twist the words Mother and Father. Remember the commandment "Honor thy Mother and Father"

"Therefore shall a man leave his Father and his Mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

I don't see Mother and Mother, do you? Can you twist that around to make it work for you as well?

You see you can interpret God's word anyway you like as long as it serves your purpose, but that does not make it truth.

"The Gays are taking over LOL get over it ya fool! - Shane"

Eventually God is taking it back, and everyone will have to answer him for their sins.

You and I debating our beliefs and opinions has no point, as we seem to be repeating the same things over and over again. So Good Luck!


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