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Tears, anger fill Temple Beth Moshe in North Miami as conservative pastor meets LGBT activists

BY STEVE ROTHAUS, srothaus@MiamiHerald.com

Jamesly Louis, a 21-year-old gay Haitian-American man, broke down in tears during a town hall meeting with LGBT activists and religious leaders from South Florida.

"From 14 when I came here to 18, that’s when I was going to murder myself," Louis had said shortly before. "For 18 years, I was always searching for a way to change me. Believe me when I tell you that I went to a lot of places to try to cure me. The last places I went, and I went to God in person to hear me because I did not want to cause my mother any pain. Even now she’s still in Haiti and she’s still in pain. I’m sorry. You see the color of my skin? I did not choose that. If I could change to be straight, I would choose to be straight because I do not like the pain I am causing my parents."

Conservative North Miami Pastor Jack Hakimian, who preaches that homosexuality is a sin and urges gay people to “repent,” jumped from his seat to try to comfort Louis, former youth council president of Pridelines Youth Services in Miami Shores.

A crowd of about 75 — mostly lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender activists and supporters — heckled Hakimian.

“I didn’t get my official invitation until a few days before the event. … That doesn't give people enough time to be there,” Hakimian said Thursday. “It makes me question whether they really wanted a fair and balanced program. A lot of people have said to me they think I was set up. I don’t personally feel set up - I think they were disorganized - but others feel that way.”

The town hall meeting at Temple Beth Moshe in North Miami Wednesday night was moderated by synagogue Rabbi Jory Lang. Other panelists: Hakimian’s wife Jhael; Joshua Dunkelman of SAVE Dade; Lisa La Monica of Safe Schools South Florida; Rev. Dr. Durrell Watkins, senior pastor at Sunshine Cathedral MCC in Fort Lauderdale; North Miami Councilman Scott Galvin; Tobias Packer of Equality Florida; and Father Patrick O’Neill of the Archdiocese of Miami.

Much of the discussion focused on marriage equality for gays and lesbians.

Another dramatic moment: Former CBS news reporter Aleen Sirgany publicly came out as a lesbian and introduced her longtime partner, Andrea Deeb, who is fighting stage 3 breast cancer.

"I never spoke out, ever, ever, ever," Sirgany said. "But it’s really the death rate of these kids that’s so troubling to me. I could sit in the comfort of our home and read The Herald and rant or see what’s going on and say, ’This is terrible.’ But shame on me for not saying something sooner.

"These kids are getting bullied to death and it starts with a message like the pastor has: ’You’re a sinner.’ That message is really spreading like cancer with very little empathy to what these kids are going through. And not just kids. Adults, too. But if the pastor is saying it’s OK, and the kids go to school and those other kids say he’s right, they get bullied. The parents say it’s OK, the pastor said it. Shame on the pastor and shame on me for not having the courage to speak up sooner."

Click here to view more pictures from the town hall meeting. Photos by STEVE ROTHAUS / Miami Herald Staff.

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Actually, it was a GLBT town hall meeting!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me be clear. What persuaded me to attend this forum was the fact that Pastor Jack Hakimian uses a Miami Dade County School as his platform of hatred and intolerance. He rents space from the school board to preach. He can preach whatever his wishes in his OWN church. But I take offense that my tax dollars are supporting this hate monger. By the way, I invited the pastor and his family to my home for dinner. He, of course, didn't accept. The God of my understanding is a loving God. As a Christian, I am fed up with people who invoke the name of God to spread hatred.

As opposed to Pastor Hakimian, Aleen Sirgany did a beautiful thing last night. The time is now to stand up and be counted. The shame needs to be put back where it belongs: at the feet of those who preach hate.

Actually Aleen Sirgany is fabricating the truth. The Pastor told her when she approached him at the end "he is open". Pastor's wife gave her a business card. Then pastor Jack gave her partner a church business card and told her to call him to talk about the "dinner invitation". We would like to hear her deny these facts so we can post up a video and image. No need to lie to make a point that you disagree with the Pastor. Local 10 and Superintendent have already been caught in similar lies in their desire to protest. Please Aleen Sirgany you need to apologize for your fabrication.

Aleen writes "He can preach whatever his wishes in his OWN church".

Obviously you don't know the 1st Amendment and your doing reverse discrimination. Use your logic. If you censor others concerning their theology what stops them from censoring you. Practice tolerance and defend the right for others to exist and say things you don't agree with. The world does not revolve around your views. Share your views, make a case, but don't get upset if your ideas don't persuade everyone.

Be tolerant and understand as the Pastor said last night. The word love does not mean the people you love have to agree with all your choices. Love means to feed, protect and speak the truth to people.Love is not a feeling and uniformity of ideas. You are an intelligent women you should already know that.

Mirtha Milian writes "The shame needs to be put back where it belongs: at the feet of those who preach hate.

Can you define what "hate preaching is"?

If hate is calling another groups behavior or ideas evil then you just preached hate against the Pastor and all Catholics, Jews, Protestants and Muslims who are committed to not physically harm you or discriminate in public, but a disagree with your sexual ethics.

Since you define hate as merely disagreeing with a view or practice then hate conservative religious people. Then based on your definition you are anti-religious, anti-conservative,anti-muslim, anti-jewish, etc.

The reality is you have a emotional definition of hate and you misapply hate on the wrong people. People who are trying to harm you, which is not "all" religious or secular people, but a few. You are overly generalizing. Be specific and use words carefully.

No, hate is enabling discrimination and violence against a group because you think they are sinners. The world has had enough of violence and intolerance by self-proclaimed religious who have the arrogance to think that they can speak for God.

Aleen, thank you for your courage and testimony.

Sounds like the only thing missing was Anita Bryant.

We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal...

Constitution of the United States of America.

As a Humanist, I believe passionately in the optimistic ideals of life, freedom and peaceful coexistence. These ideals are threatened by hate-filled extremists trying to impose on society an anti-social ideology that macabrely “celebrates” biologically aberrant / morally deviant sexual behaviors and practices, or Aberrosexualism (Homosexualism).

All current scientific research concludes that there is no genetic connection with aberrosexualism or sexually aberrant behavior. Indeed, it is highly improbable, as homosexuals generally do not have children and, therefore, would not pass on their genes to their offspring. Were aberrosexualism genetic, eventually, aberrosexuals would already have disappeared from the general population.

The partisans of the Aberrosexualist ideology will always attempt to pretend that aberrosexualism is not pathological. But, let us be very clear, we are all free to choose with whom we will engage in sex and what we will insert into the orifices of our body. Homosexualism, bisexualism, bestialism, pedophilia, necrophilia, are all anti-social, aberrant behavioral choices. Nature does not force anyone to engage in biologically aberrant, unhygienic, unhealthy, medically harmful, self-destructive sexual behavior.

The abuse, exploitation and manipulation of inexperienced and confused youth by aberrosexualist extremists is cruel, criminal, and contemptible. They must be held legally accountable for this emotional and psychological violence against these impressionable youths.

Those who LOVE, love, first and foremost, LIFE. Aberrosexualism is the Cult of Death. Indeed, it is a hate crime against Nature. Those who LOVE must stand firm against this warped aberrosexualist ideology that is destructive of life, freedom, public health and social peace.

Those who LOVE will Propagate Reason, Rationality, Respect, and Common Sense in the face of Aberrosexualist intolerance, bullying, hate, and zealotry.

I see more finger pointing than love in these pictures.
Our youth are our future. They do not need to be shamed or bullied for whom they choose to love and share their life with.

I heard a lot of more logic from the defenders of Pastor Jack and more emotion from the opposition. They said everything I wanted to say intelligently, thorough and conclusively that there is nothing I can add but only that it's a shame that Pastor Jack is considered intolerant by people who are intolerant themselves.

Here’s a great answer for people that try to equate skin color to homosexuality. That argument falls apart: http://youtu.be/CIw6ngIqaD0

Pastor Was the Court Jester the Zealots Needed to Put on Their Show!

I love Steve Rothaus’ fair reporting style. I don't know why the pastor went to this bigotry-fest marketed as a “town meeting.” What did the pastor accomplish? He got verbally stoned to death by the aberrosexualist zealots, as Dr. Meissner calls them. These zealots weren’t interested in the pastor’s story, it was never about civil dialogue, it was all about them, their kinky and bizarre sexual preferences, practices, and proclivities.

Let face it, “sexual orientation” is simply a nonmedical, nonscientific propaganda term used to deceptively give people the impression that biologically aberrant sexual behavior, or aberrosexualism, as Dr. Meissner calls it, is somehow genetic or immutable. There is not a shred of evidence that anyone is born an aberrosexual (aka homosexual), or an adulterer, or a pedophile, or a prostitute, etc. Common sense tells me that Nature does not force anyone to behave aberrosexually, i.e., to engage in biologically aberrant, unhygienic, health injurious and medically harmful sexual practices.

The fact is that biologically aberrant sexual behavior or aberrosexualism as it is called, be it homosexual, bisexual, zoophilist, lesbian, necrophilist, sadomasochist, voyeurist, fetishist, scopophilist, etc., is freely chosen and can be freely changed. No one is born wanting to engage in a sexual-type act with a cow any more than they are born wanting to engage in a sexual-type act with a member of their same sex. No one, absolutely no one, is born this way! This is a FACT. Deal with it!

I attended last nights forum. Thank you to all who were there. Powerful, moving, honest, and amazing. More amazing is the posts by a person who goes by the name of "Witness" Click on that name and see where it takes you. If you stand behind your words than say who you are. You should have used the moniker "Coward" I look forward to more meetings like this in the future. Education, tolerance, open mindedness, and most importantly Love! Thank you all for your courage to share your experience, strength, and hope! Tina Killiany

Witness is not ashamed of pointing the link back to Impact Miami Church. Because witness is a member of the church. What Aleen Sirgany said was untrue "By the way, I invited the pastor and his family to my home for dinner. He, of course, didn't accept"

We saw Pastor and wife as members give them a business card and tell them they are "open" to the idea. Just sayin....!

The Pastor came because he loves Jesus and Jesus loves all sinners and is calling all sinners to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9
Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Leviticus 20 v13

All these religious types quote Jesus all the time and have learned nothing from what he supposedly taught. Jesus said to love thy neighbor. He said it is not for you to judge, he spoke nothing of homosexuality. Stop using Jesus as an excuse to hate; you are the sinner!.... Let people enjoy their lives and stop pushing your views on everyone and you might find that more people might start to embrace your religion again and your church can get that 10% off of more people what buy what your selling.

I always believed CBS4 had a pro-gay agenda. Aleen Sirgany's announcement only confirmed by suspicions.

First... there is no Gawd... you accept that , and all arguments against gays fall apart.. ...so repeat after me... there is no Santa Claus , no Easter bunny, no tooth fairy.... No God......there' now go and get a life, ... leave others alone.

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Justin Time writes "Jesus said it is not for you to judge, he spoke nothing of homosexuality"

Jesus did not speak about incest, bestiality, terrorism, or pornography explicitly either. But he validated the Books of Moses that did. Use logic:

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Folks get right with God he is coming very soon....Turn to Jesus in repentance and avoid God's wrath....

http://www.abideinchrist.info/savedmeans.html

Oy veh, what a mess!! I honestly don't know what to say. Too much hatred, discrimination,intolerance exists in this world!! Like Rodney King said, 'Why can't we all just get along"!!! To me, people's personal lives are theirs. I personally don't care what people do with themselves, once they close their doors. I'm not in favor of the homosexual,or lesbian life style; but they should be allowed to live their lives, work, and not be harrassed! Nobody has the right to force their views on anybody!! Whether its religious, non-religious or sexual orientation on anybody!!

I am sick and tired of churches spreading false information about anyone without any logical and empirically tested means

Who will "Not" inherit the kingdom of God spoken by the apostle Paul in the Bible.

Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,

1 Corinthians 6:9

Jesus is not coming back ...not to you haters you are all delusional..open your mind or live in hatred

Every Person....man or women....born in the image of GOD...."Needs" to be true to one self....Black..White..Straight...Gay....Catholic...Jew..etc,etc.
Love your self as God made you.!!

"Henry" God did not made you "Homosexual" you chose the lifestyle ;)

Leviticus

Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

Deuteronomy

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God." 22:5

Jude

God sent "eternal fire" on the people of Sodom and Gomorrah for "going after strange flesh." 7-8

"Christian" zealots love to cherry-pick the Bible for passages that suit them, but ignore others.
Matthew 5, huh? Not the least stroke of a pen, huh? The early Church shifted the Lord's day of rest from Saturday to Sunday to politically appease pagan sun worshippers in ancient Rome; and with few exceptions, most Protestant sects perpetuate this aberration of the Law. Sorry, no Heaven for you sinners. Go back and re-read Leviticus. See what it says when the next hypocritical pastor gets caught with his pants down with a woman he isn't married to. Suddenly, you claim the rules are different for him. You extremists need to learn about context. Thousands of years ago, when you could fit the name of every Hebrew in one book because there were so few, laws requiring people to be fruitful and multiply, and keep it heterosexual made sense for the continuation of a People. Today with billions of humans, survival of our species no longer needs every man and woman on earth to get married and make babies. Lighten up people. If you want to take the Bible literally then consider this: the Lord wrote the Ten Commandments. Men wrote the rest. Fallible men.

"Miamistax"

Correct in that The "Lord's day" always been Saturday not Sunday.....

Out of the Ten commandments you will not be judge by not keeping the Sabbath...it is just a day for you to rest from you labors nothing more....

Jesus said: Sabbath is made for man and Not man for Sabbath....Mark 2:27

Paul speaking to the Church in Colossians !

o don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. Colossians 2:16

--If any "man of God" commit a sin he needs to "Repent" and don't keep practicing it or God will judge him...

---Homosexuality always been condemned by God unless you can prove it otherwise!

God created man and woman to procreated there is no mention in the Bible God change his mind!

---God inspired man to write the books of the Bible but in anyway the Bible contradict itself like the rest of the religious books out there that's how I know the Bible is the infallible word of God.

--Cannot lighten up because Not doing what God's says can send you to Hell ( :


Gay people, for the most part have love and therefore God in their hearts. The hatemongers above carry hate in their hearts, which is incongruent with God and Jesus, who they purport to follow. Your missing the whole point. God is giving you an opportunity to love your fellow man, and you're failing miserably.

You have to respect Pastor Jack for going, whether you agree with him or not. He really does want honest dialogue and took an invitation from his outspoken critics. Also, ms. Sirgany, Impact Miami pays to be at the school. Our schools are making an income off the church being there that they would otherwise not have. It is not your tax dollars supporting his church. Plus churches usually meet on Sundays

Great article explaining the events.

"Kevin" the love you are referring is Not what Jesus had in mind......Jesus Love toward others have nothing to do do with "Homosexual" love...But help other basic needs of life and not in a sexual connotation ( :

So many of you are missing the point that Ms Sirgany originally stated....separation of church and state. This doesn't have anything to do with free speech or anyone's personal agenda.

Why is a public school building being used for any type or activity other than educating students? This is not the place for religion or politics. I don't want my tax dollars used to push anyone's agenda other than improving literacy, math, science, etc.

You are turning this into a moral debate which no one will ever agree upon. Stop, get to the issue originally address.

This Dr. Judy Meissner is as much of a medical doctor as Dr. Suess.

You people that have decided to goose step by her side and bandwagon the notion that "There is not a shred of evidence that anyone is born an 'aberrosexual'" have obviously kept your head in the sand and away from the news or medical literature to deliberately champion ignorance and your love of anger and hatred.

The one person that posted a YouTube video from a non-medical, career Christian preacher and then claim - 'nuff said has to be the most ridiculous argument for homosexuality being a choice and not biological. Just because you never picked up any medical literature and news that supports homosexuality is not a choice and can not be cured does not make ignorance is proof - no matter how much hearsay you've heard just like the hearsay from Dr. Meissner you have been rooting for.

How about some actual medical studies to read? Are you scared to read them? Will the lord burn your eyes out if you do? I am a Christian and a heterosexual family man - I say enough is enough! This crap of controlling he masses through the addiction of hatred and anger is repugnant. The lord has not struck me down for knowing the truth and excepting ALL people as my brothers and sisters. I have seen gay families that are 100 times more loving than so-called christian families that suffer from divorce, insest, alcoholism, infidelity, domestic violence that hide behind the shield of beong godly. MALARKEY!

I will link some medical studies that the ignorant have said do not exist, along with recantations. Dr. Robert Spizter, the psychiatric giant mostly responsible for pigeon holing homosexuality as a curable disorder like alcoholism - just as some sick evangelicals believe and offer curing services (like Michelle Bachmann's husband). He now suffers from Parkinson;s disease and cannot longer live with the lie he sold the world saying, “I owe the gay community an apology.”

Here you go. Eat it up. It's not Indiana Jones and the Arc of the Covenant. Your face will not melt reading it. This world will never excel in this environment that embraces hate, violence and intolerance in the name of God. Those that use God to do so should begin by pointing their finger of judgement on themselves.

Signed,
A God fearing, heterosexual husband & father - champion of peace, foe of hate, respect and love for ALL mankind except for those that have intolerance for them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/health/dr-robert-l-spitzer-noted-psychiatrist-apologizes-for-study-on-gay-cure.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/06/homosexuality-and-biology/4683/?single_page=true

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_levay (Not genetic but biological)

http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3008-homosexuality-is-biological-suggests-gay-sheep-study.html

http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2003/12/02/the_biological_basis_of_homosexuality/?page=full

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saO_RFWWVVA (for the youtube guy - 'nuff said)

"There is not a shred of evidence"... I think you could take that back now. My guess - you'll come up with more excuses to hide your head in the sand. There's more evidence than there are out-of-context and manipulated bible verses.

YES! "Sexual Orientation" is a Politically-Correct, Modern-Day Superstition; A Cruel Hoax

BEWARE! Do not be misled by uninformed individuals deceived into pushing the superstition-driven Aberrosexualist ideology. An ideology that ridiculously demands the macabre “celebration” of biologically aberrant (incorrect) sexual behavior.

Today, there is a well-settled consensus in the scientific community that there is NOT a genetic or hormonal origin to biologically aberrant sexual behavior or aberrosexualism (homosexualism).

That is why the PRO-Aberrosexualist American Psychological Association points out in one of its publications that: “although much research has examined the [possibilities] on ‘sexual orientation,’ no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that ‘sexual orientation’ is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles. . . .” [American Psychological Association ( 2008). "Answers to Your Questions for Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality."]

Yes, The American Psychological Association recognizes that "no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that ‘sexual orientation’ is determined by any particular factor or factors."

Also, if aberrosexualism (homosexualism) were genetically determined, identical male twins would be 100% concordant for this condition. Studies from the Australian twin registry found that only 11% of identical twins with same sex attraction (SSA) had a twin brother who also experienced SSA. [J. Michael Bailey, at al. (2000). Genetic and environmental influences on sexual orientation and its correlates in an Australian twin sample. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 78:524–536.]

In addition, Dr. Francis S. Collins, M.D, Ph.D, former director of The Human Genome Project, wrote, "There is an inescapable component of heritability to many human behavioral traits. For virtually none of them is heredity ever close to predictive... An area of particularly strong public interest is the genetic basis of homosexualism (aberrosexualism). Evidence [indicates] that sexual behavior is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations. [ Collins, Francis S. (2006). The language of god, a scientist presents evidence for belief. New York: Free Press.]

CONCLUSION: There is NO scientific or medical evidence establishing that anyone is born condemned or forced to engage in biologically aberrant sexual behavior. None! Zero! Zilch! Nada! Deal with it, guys!

So why do some people naively fall for the ideology-based, politically correct “sexual orientation” superstition? Because aberrosexualist ideologues are so slick they could, literally, steal the shortening out of a biscuit without breaking the crust.

“Truth, of course, must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for we have made fiction to suit ourselves.” ― G.K. Chesterton

Hey, Fatherly Tolerance,

Lay off Dr. Meissner. What she said is backed, yes, BACKED, by at least one of the sources you yourself gave:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

"Biology and sexual orientation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Biology and sexual orientation is the subject of research into the role of biology in the development of human sexual orientation. NO SIMPLE, SINGLE CAUSE FOR SEXUAL ORIENTATION HAS BEEN CONCLUSIVELY DEMOSTRATED. Various studies point to different, EVEN CONFLICTING POSITIONS, such as a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences,[1] with biological factors involving a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment,[2] or no genetic influence.[3]"

At random, I picked that link kindly provided you and, low and behold, it proved Dr. Meissner's point.

So Meissner is right after all! “There is NO scientific or medical evidence establishing that anyone is born condemned or forced to engage in biologically aberrant sexual behavior. None! Zero! Zilch! Nada!”

Here’s a Kleenie to wipe your tears…

youdontfoolme,

Her explicit comment was, and her exact quote, "All current scientific research concludes that there is no genetic connection with aberrosexualism or sexually aberrant behavior". That was followed by a slew of bandwagoning, uninformed sheep parroting her claim there is zero evidence that homosexuality is biological or genetic - since they've "read-up" on this kind of stuff (sarcasm). She did not say that since there is not just one simple singe cause conclusively demonstrated to diagnose homosexuality it is impossible that homosexuality is either biological or genetic, as you tried to claim she said.

What's hilarious is your comeback completely debunks yourself with a quote that shows multiple scientific evidences. The problem is, as with a lot of other existing "real" medical issues, it seems it can't be tied down to just one of those causes in all those factors and could be a combination of the factors and/or not from or just from genetics. You just gave us a list of factors - how does that equate to ZERO evidence?

What's really funny is that out of all those links that's probably all your read, put up your hands and said, "'Nuff said! Zero proof!" missing how you just disproved yourself.

I guess if there's not one simple medical answer it does not exist. So in your mind cancer is only caused by smoking or it does not exist, heart disease is only caused by being fat or it does not exist, brain damage is only caused by hitting your head or it does not exist, and birth defects are a punishment from God - so on and so on. None of those things could ever be caused by either genetic, biological or a combination of those factors because a medical symptom has to be pinned down to just one specific cause and impossible to be caused by more that one factor or none of those things exist. LOL! It must be blissful to think so simple with not much turbulence in life when you keep it narrow. I guess you never need a "kleenie" when you always have a lame excuse for ignorance, do you?

It seems like Bible verses aren't the only thing you guys misconstrue.

Dr. Judy Meissner (If you really are a doctor, I'm sure you're not),

Posting your same post twice does not make it a fact.

What makes me laugh and know that you are a complete fool is when you say, and I quote:
"CONCLUSION: There is NO scientific or medical evidence establishing that anyone is born condemned or forced to engage in biologically aberrant sexual behavior. None! Zero! Zilch! Nada! Deal with it, guys!" (Gotta love the professional doctor-type writing in the closing of that paragraph)

Which is also a bait and switch from your previous comment:
"All current scientific research concludes that there is no genetic connection with aberrosexualism or sexually aberrant behavior." (Gotta love the change up - such a professional doctor - like Dr. Pepper)

But you say, and again I quote: "Evidence [indicates] that sexual behavior is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations." - WHICH IS STILL A GENETIC FACTOR NO MATTER HOW YOU CUT IT! THAT IS NOT A ZERO. (With a lousy source to boot. You do have a lot of bad, unfindable sources.)

Also, claiming that those short entries you posted makes it a shut case to your view is ridiculous.

You are also busted with the statistics you posted for the Bailey & Pillard study. They say only 11% of FRATERNAL TWINS (not identical as you claim) with SSA share the same homosexual tendencies. 52% is their number for identical twins. Kallman in 1952 found 100%, Heston & Shields in 1968 say 43%. No wonder you don't like to post links with your sources.

http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/studies.html

Plus how do you conclude that homosexuality can not be biological because, "genetically determined, identical male twins would be 100% concordant for this condition." but then you toss away all other biological factors such as hormonal, environmental and developmental effects. You are a QUACK!

What is your field of medicine - Homophobology?
Where do you practice medicine - Fantasy Island?

Doctor my arse.

We do not live in a country where the laws of the land align with one particular religious book or another (not the Bible nor any other religious book). Some people may feel that the Bible (and therefore, their God) says that homosexuality is a sin. In this country, that is their right to believe that. But in this country in this decade, no matter what a person's religious beliefs are, they do not (or should not) get to impose their religious beliefs on another. Additionally, they do not get to bully another who does not follow their religious beliefs.

We are all very fortunate to live in a country where a person can have whatever religious beliefs they want to. So why do some religions feel the need to force their religious beliefs and their brand of morality on others? They seem to have forgotten that in this country, for the most part, as long as a person is not adversely affecting another person, an adult gets to make their own decisions about morality and religion.

It makes me wonder why one person cares so much about another person's very personal behavior and the threatened impact on their immortal soul. It also reminds me of a verse from the very book so often quoted above .. the Bible ... Matthew 7:5 "Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye."

http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2012/08/27704/ This is by a lawyer that discusses free speech. Thanks for your considersation

http://towleroad.typepad.com/files/amabrief.pdf This is a link to the scientific consensus from 30 years of research from the professional organization of the psychologists, pyschoanalysts, psychiatrists, doctors, pediatricians, social workers to the 9th Circuit Court. These are the people that help families deal with the idea proposed by fundamentalists that gay is bad/sin. Please read and consider this in relation to the opinion of those opposed.

https://www.ctepiscopal.org/images/customer-files/I_Will_Bless_You_Corrected.pdf This is from an official church opinion that celebrates gay people and their weddings/blessings and embraces them as whole and good and welcomes them and their families. Please understand that religious freedom includes allowing everyone in their respective churches to worship as we wish. Out in the marketplace of ideas I believe that loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself as Jesus lived, means putting away the idea of a vengeful Old testament God. Grace allows one to sin/err/be unloving and simply self reflect, and self correct to loving. By their fruits means observing and choose what is more loving. So read and consider and reflect and then maybe the choice is easier to see the love.

Great posts Susan.

I don't recall heckling at the Forum. In fact, people being told that their love shouldn't exist nor should they exist as they are were remarkably restrained and polite. Jack succeeded mostly in convincing himself that he isn't homophobic or "anti"-gay...anyone being told that their love and their lives should not have the full protection of law will not feel loved, no matter how much religious rhetoric is used.

Using the bible against people like a weapon isn't loving. It wasn't when people used the bible to keep women silent and it wasn't when people used the bible to defend and promote the evil practice of slavery. Of course some people will be homophobic (or racist, or xenophobic, or other scared of or afraid of "the other"), and some will even try to convince themselves that their prejudices are God's prejudices. We are free to believe in any deity (or no deity) and to beleive whatever we will about our fellow human beings. But, regardless of our beliefs, all people have a right to live lives of dignity and all people should have equal rights. Hate who you want to hate and even call it love, but don't keep other citizns marginalized. That's where the problem lies. LesBiGay people are being told to deny who they are, to be ashamed of their very ontology, and to give up the people they love most in the world. You may not think that matters, but if it were you, regardless of how seriously you take the Golden Rule (which is also in the bible you know), would you want to have church and state (which should be separate) try to keep you and the love of your life apart? Of course not. I don't care if you hate me; i don't even care if you fool yourself into believing that hating me is loving me, just don't try to keep me from having all the rights, privileges, and protections you take for granted. You don't have to bless my relationship, but neither should you try to keep me from having it and from it enjoying all the protections that yours does.

Hey "Fatherly,"

Why do you get so bent out of shape and become sooo unfatherly when confronted with the facts?

It's just too funny that you would want people to believe in the "sexual orientation" superstition. We're in the 20th Century, dude! Get with it.

Even folks in Third World countries know that biologically aberrant sexual behavior or aberrosexualism as it is called, be it homosexual, bisexual, zoophilist, lesbian, necrophilist, sadomasochist, voyeurist, fetishist, scopophilist, etc., is freely chosen and can be freely changed.

No one is born wanting to engage in a sexual-type act with a cow any more than they are born wanting to engage in a sexual-type act with a member of their same sex. No one, absolutely no one, is born this way! This is a FACT, dude. You gotta deal with it!

"Dr" Judy Meissner does not show up as a licensed practitioner with the State of Florida. Leads one to ask in what field she possesses a doctoral degree and from what university.
In answer to her stating that there is no definitive proof homosexuality is genetic-- I would say it is also indicative that there is no definitive proof it isn't. It seems most researchers think it is a combination of genetic predisposition and environment. Mainstream psychologists and psychiatrists also agree that change is rare and that reparative therapies are not helpful at best and abusive to patients at their worst.

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