The Senate Regulated Industries Comittee voted 7-5 Wednesday to remove one of the last vestiges of Florida's parimutuel tradition: allowing the 16 greyhound tracks in Florida to keep their card games and slot machines without having to operate live dog races.
The bill, SB 1594 by Sen. Maria Sachs, D-Delray Beach, would remove the 15-year-old live racing requirement in the face of declining popularity and revenues of dog racing. Sachs said that between 2002 and 2010, the amount gambled on live dog racing declined 57 percent, purses for live racing dropped 69 percent and taxes and fees collected by the estate decreased 96 percent.
"The market has dictated already that this may be a dying industry but I don't think it's dead,'' she said. "I do believe there should be some dog racing where the people want it and it should be dictated by the people and not by government."
"I want the pool to shrink. I want them to breed fewer dogs and that will lead to higher quality racing,'' she said.
But dog breeders, trainers and handlers derided the measure as the demise of their industry.
"It's going to knock us out of business,'' said James O'Donnell, 82 a greyhound owner in Miami who has been racing dogs all around the state for 55 years. He disputed allegations that dogs are run too hard and said that the industry polices itself.
Jack Cory, lobbyist for the Florida Greyhound Association, warned that "3,000 Florida families that would lose their small businesses or their jobs if this bill passes,'' and complained that the animal rights movement had misinformed the committee about the treatment of dogs.
It is indeed a sad day when you see a sport that you grew up with trying to be eliminated by the race tracks. Making it all the worst are the animal rights groups that make a living off of lobbying state legislators.
I am a native Floridan who was educated at the University of Florida on the money produced to the State by dog racing. Remember, it was the only game in the state and charities to this day reap the benefit of greyhound racing.
Granted attendance has dwindled at most Florida tracks. Mainly for a couple of reasons: 1) you can bet over your computer on the Internet, 2) tracks are not located in the best areas in most towns, 3) simulcasting of dog races are sent around the world. The money is still there - the pie is just divided differently.
A little advertising and promotion always bring crowds to the tracks. Most tracks just don't care to promote their games and racing.
Any track not wanting to race dogs - should surrender their license and let someone who cares be granted the right to race.
Posted by: YM Gurbada | March 16, 2011 at 08:12 PM
I found it interesting that Christine Dorchak, co-founder of Grey2K, has a connection to the terrorist group ALF. Look them up, not pretty.
I wound never back a terrorist group.
Have you ever wondered why Grey2K has never filed a complaint for animal abuse against a greyhound owner? Seems strange that a group that tells you they are trying to protect the dogs, doesn't.
They just go on forums and tell you what they saw, or did they see anything?
Were they at the farms, were they at the kennels, did they see anything firsthand, or did they make most of this up?
Carey Theil, co-founder of Grey2K, sits on the board of Directors of a group called Stop Predatory Gambling. Hmmmmmmmmmm is this Grey2K's agenda? To stop gambling.
I would not listen to them. You should do some research on your own and come to your own conclusion.
I know they will push you to their own website, so you should also check out www.allaboutgreyhounds.com to get the story from the people that care for these wonderful animals every day.
Posted by: Dick Ciampa | March 16, 2011 at 08:47 PM
I've battled animal rights activists for years. Clueless & brainwashed are the 2 best words to describe them. Grey2k is no different than Al Qaeda or any other jihadist propaganda group.
Posted by: Race Fan | March 16, 2011 at 10:42 PM
SHAME on Senator Maria Sachs! Why is she spouting the lies and propaganda of an out-of-state hate group? Greyhound people in Florida deserve our respect and support; IF Ms Sachs is so concerned about forcing her "animal rights" religion on others, then maybe she should introduce a BILL to Ban Pet Ownership. Since that's the leading cause of animal cruelty in Florida. Support greyhound racing, and Ban Cruel Pet Owners like Ms Sachs the hypocrite.
Posted by: Dave Greenfield | March 16, 2011 at 10:47 PM
good afternoon
I listen to the pod cast of your bill this afternoon. was disappointed it passed 7-5.
many of us will lose our jobs. as you know dan atkins wanted this bill to be recommenced for passage. he is one example the greyhound business at his track has failed. he did no promotion or upgrades for many many years but if you look up the road fifty miles from atkins palm beach kennel club is doing great with live greyhound racing. there total handle last week on there live greyhound races was $3,376,834.
plam beach has sent money on promotion they are recouping rewords. dan atkins did nothing and your bill is awarding him. because of your bill he will never run another greyhound race again. jobs are lost you will have tellers gone,racing officials gone,workers at the track gone ,gamblers gone, breeders gone.
if these operations put any effort into there product there is success example palm beach kennel club there doing great. hope you have feelings for the good hard working folks that provide for there families that now will be jobless.
when you find the time as my representative i look forward to your reply,
waiting for your response,
howard k. lincoln
Posted by: h.lincoln | March 16, 2011 at 10:54 PM
Does anyone believe Sachs wants less breeding so it leads to higher quality racing? I'd be interested in seeing a full and honest disclosure of her campaign contributors.
Posted by: fair guy | March 16, 2011 at 11:02 PM
It should be no poker without racing. The tracks got the right to other games on the premise of improving racing.
Racing is different in that it's economical worth is so much more than simply at the track. The jobs that it provides reach all over Florida and even into other states. If this truly does happen it's impact on the American economy will further set the country back and many families within the industry will never recover.
The tradition of Florida greyhound racing should be important to the state. The state should not turn it's back on a sport that has contributed so much over the last 90 years.
Posted by: Clinton Locklear | March 16, 2011 at 11:20 PM
I don't own a racer, but to see the racing business die when it produces such wonderful, majectic beautiful dogs that are now gracing my couch makes me very sad. These dogs are so well taken care of on the track, and those that are misinformed and think that they spend 22 hrs/day in a crate need a reality check. Just take a look at the trainer who went into a burning building to save his dogs and tell me to my face that the people in the industry don't care. I say your full of yourself.
Posted by: Melissa | March 16, 2011 at 11:50 PM
I have been involved in adoption for 16 years and have been involved in the placement of hundreds of retired racers. After years of swallowing the lies, I had the opportunity to learn a bit about the racing industry first hand. And, then I made an educated choice to BECOME A RACING DOG OWNER. These dogs are treated well, prized even. They enjoy the running and the accident rate is less frequent than where my dogs go to dog daycare! I am sickened that twisted lies and old stories color this FLORIDA LEGACY. As a new person to the racing world, I had the option of incorporating in the state of FL (read fees, taxes, etc) but have chosen to run my dogs at other tracks for the utter disregard for small businesses and the livelihood of thousands.
Posted by: Leslie C | March 17, 2011 at 12:45 AM
Greyhound racing is nostalgic Florida. What a sad day when you think of how live racing might be extinct. Slot machines are not nearly as entertaining or passionate. It's also sad that so many Florida voters are misinformed about issues at hand. These tracks agreed to host live racing in order to have poker games or slots. Now they want to pull the rug and renig on their promise? Too many people will lose their jobs over this and relocate out of the state. There goes more revenue and tax dollars leaving Florida!
Posted by: Kathy Rider | March 17, 2011 at 01:57 AM
As a former kennel owner and dog owner from Massachusetts, this is devastating. We relocated to Florida after losing everything we owned up in Massachusetts. They promise retraining not one person has been retrained! Grey2K aka Christine Dorchak and her husband Carey Theil are the Bernie Maddoffs' of this greyhound demise. Taking all the money they receive from mislead people and pocketing it for themselves & the Animal Liberation Front. Christine Dorchak was prominently featured and promoted on the Animal Liberation Front website. This is one link between Grey2K and domestic terrorist organizations. Dorchak has participated in meetings with ALF members. The FBI has been investigating for years. The Track Owners are sabotaging an entire industry out of greed, fight them with everything you have or you will end up like my 3rd generation family out of business with no facts or proof! Make them open their books and you'll see the truth. Follow the money.
Posted by: Carol Rink | March 17, 2011 at 06:09 AM
Greyhound racing allowed the tracks to expand their gaming interests to begin with. It is very disappointing to now see that the tracks wish to do away with greyhound racing. My hope is that the senators who represent us will realize how many people stand to lose employment- many of them from the only work they have ever known.
Ms Sachs desire for quality dogs is already being met, only dogs with the most desirable traits are bred. Greyhound breeding is selective- this has been proven by the good health of the breed.
Posted by: Margaret Bridges | March 17, 2011 at 06:47 AM
I have been involved in greyhound adoption since 1997 and have run my own adoption group since 2003, I also own an actively racing greyhound. My greyhound races in Florida at Orange Park Kennel Club in Jacksonville. I am licensed with the State of Florida and have paid a license fee to the State of Florida.
It appears that Sen. Sachs has swallowed the Grey2K party line hook, line and sinker as she parroted all the talking points of Grey2K. I would have hoped that someone such as the Senator would have done a bit of research and looked at both sides of the issue before aligning herself with a group such as Grey2K, and against the interests of those in her state who make a living, pay taxes and contribute to the coffers of the State of Florida.
Just a couple of facts about Grey2K.
1. Grey2K is known for distorting the facts. On Nov. 6,2000, the Boston Herald called Grey2K's campaign to ban greyhound racing in Massachusetts "...a ruthless campaign of deceit, distortion and defamation of character".
2. Grey2K provides NO direct services to greyhounds. Grey2K's 2008 IRS 990 return reveals that the organization spends nothing-zero-on direct services to benefit greyhounds or adoption. Instead, 53% of its budget goes to lobbying. (www.guidestar.org)
It is my hope that Florida does not loose live greyhound racing due to the misinformation and lies of those whose agenda is not about the greyhounds but about lining their own pockets. Thanks to racing greyhounds are well adjusted and social animals. They are the wonderful dogs that are treasured by adopters all over the United States, due to their breeding, careful raising and racing and not in spite of it.
Please folks do some homework, and I would say the same thing to Sen. Sachs, do not swallow the whole Grey2K line hook, line and sinker. Save the racing greyhound.
Posted by: Candy Beck | March 17, 2011 at 08:28 AM
Yes, so..
Causing dogs injuries so bad they have to be put to sleep is a good thing, is it?
Culling off all the slow ones is justifiable, is it? Just take their lives from them. Its ok its for gambling.
You'd rip their muscles, break their toes and fracture their legs. They'd bleed warm red blood for you and you'd shout "Hurrah!"
For gambling. For entertainment. Your entertainment. Their suffering = your entertainment.
What good kind hearted people you are, outstanding citizens.
Says a lot, about you, doesn't it? About how much you value animals. You're not people I'd want to associate with, I wouldn't want you anywhere near my kids, or animals.
I don't care about your jobs. You can go hungry and homeless as far as I'm concerned. To me you're like criminals, and greyhounds are your victims. And you're posting here in public that your sad you have to stop abusing. Its sad really, sad that you were ever allowed to commit this abuse in the first place.
Posted by: AaronC | March 17, 2011 at 11:17 AM
Ms Sachs is your district doing so well that you SPEND your time on this type of legislation is laughable. love to see the money behind this effort.
just another POLITICIAN with a small BRAIN and open pockets looking out for HERSELF and the the pressing issues of the people.
what a DISGRACE
Posted by: HARVEY TANNER | March 17, 2011 at 11:44 AM
Oh, please, Candy and the rest of you greyhound racing apologists. Find something better to do with your time than to exploit animals. If you think GREY2K USA is your only worry, think again. People who really do care about animals are your real enemy. People who are outraged about things like the state where greyhound racing's hall of fame is located (Kansas) doesn't even think racing greyhounds deserve to be protected by anti-cruelty laws. Come on - get real - most people with hearts and a conscience don't comprehend why you think it's so important to defend a "sport" that is dying. You must really think the general populace is naive and willing to take your bait. The only people you can fool are those still going to the dog tracks - and those numbers are dwindling.
Posted by: Judy Paulsen | March 17, 2011 at 01:51 PM
GREY2K's arguement against greyhound racing is so full of wholes it is hard to believe anyone could agree with them. The facts and numbers are extremely incomplete. They try to make people think isolated incidents are commonplace, which is not true. Their exact arguement and tactics could just as easily be used to campaign to get rid of all pets, all animal activities as well as all human sports and human activities. Think about it! Any reporter or politician that believes what they say is incompetent to serve in that job or getting paid for their opinion.
Posted by: D. Dyal | March 17, 2011 at 02:22 PM
This is all a well thought out plan by the oddball Animal rights folks, like wolves they gravure toward the weakest link the Dog racing. Then watch out horsemen because your next on the meal plan. Then the chicken and egg farmers. Oh then the beef and dairy guys. The Grey2k and the AR folks are making a nice income on the backs of working farmers and other gainfully employed workers throughout the country. Be carefully what you wish for.
Posted by: Mike cavanaugh | March 17, 2011 at 02:23 PM
Denial is an amazing thing.
Dog racing revenue down, down, down year after year should be a clue. Unless you’re in denial.
Tracks closing, a sign of what the public thinks of greyhound racing, should be a clue. Unless you’re in denial.
Dog breeders and kennel operators keep their eyes on the bottom line: which dogs can win the most races and make them the most money. Bottom line. Injured greyhounds or ones who just can’t seem to win go bye-bye, to adoption groups that pay for medical care and living expenses until they are adopted. Bottom line: no earnings, adios. It’s a business, right?
Track owners keep their eyes on the bottom line: which parts of their business can make them the most money. Bottom line. Greyhound racing is not winning for them. Bye, bye. It’s a business, right?
It’s a food-chain kind of thing. Dogs at the bottom of the chain. Breeders and kennel operators next. Track owners at the top.
What’s so hard to understand?
Why can’t the breeders and kennel operators realize that in the pecking order of things, the track owners are now doing to them what they themselves have done to the dogs all these years?
Stop whining.
Posted by: trueluvgreyhounds | March 17, 2011 at 02:59 PM
There is a common occurrence on forums like this - I've been down this path many times before. Dog racing supporters have no defense for their cruel sport, so they attack and attempt to discredit the humane organizations working to end it.
I am the Vice President of GREY2K USA, and I spend many hours every single day, working to end dog racing - and I do so as a volunteer. Our all-volunteer Board of Directors is comprised of humane-minded individuals whose common bond is working to end the cruelty of greyhound racing.
GREY2K USA was the first organization to successfully outlaw dog racing using the ballot initiative process. In November 2008, the citizens of Massachusetts chose compassion over cruelty and voted 56%-44% to close down Raynham and Wonderland Greyhound Parks.
GREY2K USA has also been instrumental in fighting for stronger laws to protect racing greyhounds. In Massachusetts and New Hampshire, we successfully passed laws requiring that these states inform the public on the number of greyhounds injured while racing, and report on the ultimate fate of racing dogs. Also in Massachusetts, we helped pass the first state-funded greyhound adoption trust fund in United States history. In Florida and New Hampshire, we passed legislation to restore greyhounds to the protections of anti-cruelty laws.
Finally, GREY2K USA works to defeat attempts to prop up the cruelty of dog racing and has successfully repealed direct subsidies, tax breaks and other special legislative favors once awarded to dog track owners.
Dog racing is a dying industry. Over the past two decades, commercial dog racing has experienced catastrophic economic decline, and now represents less than 1% of all wagers made each year in the U.S. Since 2001, twenty-five dog tracks have either closed or ended live racing. Competition from other forms of gambling, coupled with increased awareness of the cruelty of dog racing, has had a significant negative impact on racetrack revenues.
The recent financial woes at tracks across the U.S. is proof that without the life support of other forms of gambling, greyhound racing is no longer a viable business.
This bill would simply eliminate the requirement for dog track owners to feature live dog racing at their facilities, but still allow them to have their other, more profitable forms of gambling. As business owners, dog track owners should have the right to terminate the part of their business that they are losing money on. That is what this bill will accomplish.
What if you owned a retail store, and you were forced to sell a product that is not only un-profitable, but actually reduces the profits you are making on other products?
The racing industry is trying to sell a product that few people want. The public has spoken – they have lost interest in this antiquated, cruel sport.
It is well past time to free these gentle, sentient beings from their incarceration at dog tracks in Florida and nationwide.
For more information, please visit www.GREY2KUSA.org
Posted by: JenKrebs | March 17, 2011 at 03:10 PM
Greyhound racing is dying everywhere. The amount wagered is not just being divided differently, it's declining by leaps and bounds. The tracks wanted casino gaming to prop up greyhound racing, but it's not working. Racing has continued to decline. When the greyhound racing industry collapses, and it's when, not if, some people will lose their jobs. That doesn't mean we should continue to prop up a cruel and inhumane industry. Instead, we should be working to help those people found other gainful employment.
Candy, you forgot to mention that you love your racing greyhound so much, you live in New Mexico while your racer is in Florida. You also forgot to mention that you've run your racer into injuries twice and still race him. I guess you just have a really different sense of "love" than most people in this country.
You try to paint Grey2K as a group that does nothing to help greyhounds, but that's their only purpose! Grey2K is like the Fire Marshal's office - they don't put out the fire, they prevent the fire.
As for the ridiculous parallels some idiots are trying to draw between anti-racing advocates and terrorist organizations, you should be very careful about what you post on a public forum. It's a ridiculous scare tactic. Along the same lines is the BS about anti-racing groups wanting to outlaw ALL animal use and human sports. Do you really expect people to take you seriously when you overreach like that? If you can't tell the difference between the cruel and inhumane sport of greyhound racing and human athletics, well, you need more help than you can get here.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 03:17 PM
This is certainly a step in the right direction
for the State of Florida.
Posted by: Rosie R | March 17, 2011 at 03:17 PM
D. Dyal - please tell us what Grey2K has ever said about greyhound racing that isn't grounded in truth and supported by evidence? Just because you don't like the message doesn't mean it's not true.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 03:18 PM
Candy Beck - why are greyhound breeders so incompetent that they could not continue to breed greyhounds for the pet market without racing? There are so many breeds maintained by hobby groups without a cruel industry backing them. The end of racing should not mean the end of the racing greyhound. That argument is without merit.
And don't bring up the idea that the AKC greyhound is so different. That's not part of the argument. There are plenty of other breeds that have AKC lines and non-AKC lines, so why should the greyhound be any different? It's another scare tactic that doesn't reflect reality.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 03:23 PM
This whole issue is not about racing it is about a hate group that funds itself off the backs of its ignorant contributors. These people are trying to kill the breed of greyhounds and they have been successful so far. Someone needs to stand up to Grey2k and stop them. Once they destroy their current target no telling what they will kill next. Be warned anyone of us could be next.
Posted by: Ed Foley | March 17, 2011 at 03:25 PM
Candy claimed Sen. Sachs is, "aligning herself with a group such as Grey2K, and against the interests of those in her state." Actually, Candy, she has a lot of support from people in her state. Just because she doesn't support your position doesn't mean she has no support. Face it, you're on the wrong side of this argument. The greyhound industry is dying across the country, and Sen. Sachs bill reflects that reality.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 03:27 PM
Gurbada said, "It is indeed a sad day when you see a sport that you grew up with trying to be eliminated by the race tracks. Making it all the worst are the animal rights groups that make a living off of lobbying state legislators."
Face it, the industry is dying, and it will die whether the tracks continue to dump money into it or not. If racing and gaming continue to be coupled, then both will go out of business, costing not only the greyhound workers, but also all of the casino workers their jobs.
As for people making money from lobbying, I think that's a lot more noble than making money off the backs of racing greyhounds. No lobbyist is killed because they can't run fast enough. No lobbyist has been injured so severely in that activity that they had to give up their career. But every time greyhounds race, they face the very real threat of injury and death. When they can't race any longer, too many of them are killed rather than be put up for adoption. Those that are put out for adoption are dumped onto adoption groups to provide all of the funds for medical care, training, and housing.
It's a sad day when your nostalgia outweighs the welfare of wonderful animals like racing greyhounds. I'm sure there were a lot of people who really missed the days when child labor was legal, but we're not going back to that, either.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 03:40 PM
Ed Foley says, "This whole issue is not about racing it is about a hate group that funds itself off the backs of its ignorant contributors."
I'm sorry, Ed, but are you referring to pro-racers here? They're the group that has been sucking a living off the backs of greyhounds. Greyhounds are cute and they make wonderful pets, but they're not little Einsteins, so I guess you could call them "ignorant."
The racing industry are the one's putting these wonderful creatures in harms way to make a buck, sucking that money out of bettors' pockets. They're the ones who claim to "love greyhounds", but they're also the ones who needlessly kill thousands of dogs a year. They're the ones breeding more dogs than they can use. I wouldn't make my worst enemy live in a cage for 20+ hours a day, but that's exactly what the racing industry does.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 03:46 PM
I have read quite a few articles on this topic in the past. And always there appear comments by many people in favor of racing, rather than substantiating any claims they are making, they write foolishness – trying to draw attention away from their lack of proof and accountibility.
The tracks are businesses, as someone has already stated. No where else in the country would a business owner or a corporation be forced to hold on to a division or subsidiary that was losing money for them. They would close the losing division. I have seen it happen many times in my life.
Why should the tracks be held to different business standards by state law? It is ludicrous. If the owners of the tracks wish to close down racing, let them.
I say Congratulations, Florida.
Posted by: Schember | March 17, 2011 at 04:03 PM
After greyhounds, what liberty will be next? You don't enjoy racing, don't go.
You're listening to people who wouldn't trade a mouse for the cure to cancer. People who don't want family pets to be allowed.
P.S We're all just animals.
Posted by: fair guy | March 17, 2011 at 04:05 PM
Greyhounds are born to run and race each other
or anything else that moves.Turn two of these dogs lose in a city park and watch them compete
with each other at speeds of well over 35 mph.
Posted by: mike | March 17, 2011 at 04:10 PM
It always amazes me how much credit racing "supporters" give one small group. From things said, one could think that Grey2K could take over the world. While their message is very clearly stated and people knowingly and willingly donate money to help them pursue their goal, there are probably hundreds of thousands of other people who know nothing of them, but dislike dog racing just because they find it offensive.
In this country dogs are not the same as cows and chickens, and killing young, healthy dogs IS offensive to most Americans; hence the decrease in attendance and revenue generated. Simply put, greyhound racing is leaving the building... probably more so because of the bright lights and bells and whistles of electronic gaming than any other single reason.
Posted by: Rosie R | March 17, 2011 at 04:18 PM
Eric, you are the perfect supporter for GREY2K. Obviously not able to see what they are doing and not smart enough to see the WHOLE picture. Tell me how the exact same arguement they make couldn't be used to end pet ownership. The numbers are there, the deaths are there, the cruelty is there. Documented, reported, videoed, undercover reported just like the claims you make on greyhound racing. And no GREY2K doesn't spend money on greyhounds. Ask them if they pay for the adoption of all the greyhounds when a track closing kicks them out. Ask them how much they give to greyhound adoption. Ask them about threatening a Breast Cancer Charity to stop them from accepting $165,000 donation from a greyhound. Who would do that? Ask them if they donated the $165,000 instead.
GREY2K does use facts. They are just very incomplete. 700 injuries over 2 years like they report from WV seems like a lot unless you ad the FACT that 55,000 dogs ran during that period. 55,000 trips to the dog park probably yields those type of numbers. Every sport and outdoor sporting activity will yield those type of injury numbers if reported. So why aren't you trying to end those and why aren't you telling the whole story.
It costs $2,000 to $3000 just to get EACH pup to the track and you talk like no one really cares what happens to them. Seriously? What kind of fool would believe that?
JenKregs is the vice-president but really can't argue with the racing folks. It's a very weak arguement based on partial facts and isolated incidents. The post above references a declining business mostly. Is that a reason to campaign to stop it? Should other declining businesses be eliminated all together? It is a weak arguement for people without the sense to think it through and without the sense to investigate the whole story. If the business is that weak then won't supply and demand take care of it on it's own?
When our president said he was cutting $100,000,000 from the budget did you think that was awesome? Do you know what a small portion of a multi-trillion dollar budget that is? Politicians use the same tactics as GREY2K to fool people just like you. Flash a number to wow the fools who don't think it through.
Posted by: D. Dyal | March 17, 2011 at 04:57 PM
Mr Vice President of Grey2k. What is your yearly based salary.??? You can tell us here, or if your going to be shy it, be obtained thru FOI. I'm sure you make a handsome salary destroying others employment. And I'm sure you will continue twisting the truth, until we are all eating tree bark and grass clippings.
Posted by: Mike Cavanaugh | March 17, 2011 at 05:27 PM
Dyal, you impugn my intelligence and then post nonsense. There is a significant difference between pet ownership by individual families and the institutionalized abuse of racing greyhounds.
You also said, "700 injuries over 2 years like they report from WV seems like a lot..." No, it IS a lot. That's almost two dogs per day, every day, for those two years. But when you consider that most tracks don't run seven days a week, the per day injury rate looks even worse!
You continue, "Unless you ad the FACT that 55,000 dogs ran during that period." About your FACT, do you really mean 55,000 individual dogs ran during that time, or you saying there were 55,000 individual racing trips made? Others have tried to argue about the percentages generated by dividing the number of injuries by the number of racing starts, and it looks really small. But it's the same number you get if you divide the number of racing dogs into the number of races run. It's called math, and no matter how you manipulate the numbers, the bottom line is over 700 injuries in two years.
You went on to say, "It costs $2,000 to $3000 just to get EACH pup to the track and you talk like no one really cares what happens to them. Seriously? What kind of fool would believe that?" So according to your numbers, Ronnie Williams allowed $74,000 to $111,000 worth of investment starve to death in his kennel? You tell me, who would believe that could happen? If the dogs are so valuable, why are so many of them killed when they can no longer race? Why are the luckiest ones handed over to adoption agencies to re-home without charge? Because the dogs are only valuable if they can win races. Once they don't win races, they're considered a burden not worthy of their maintenance cost.
And then, "The post above references a declining business mostly. Is that a reason to campaign to stop it? Should other declining businesses be eliminated all together?" If those dying businesses exploit animals in cruel and inhumane fashion, then yes, they should be campaigned to stop, too.
On the same topic, you said, "
Additionally, you said, "If the business is that weak then won't supply and demand take care of it on it's own?" It's taking care of itself, but the track owners are required by law to prop up this disgraceful business in order to keep their casinos open. This bill would decouple the businesses, thus allowing greyhound racing to die on its own. Meanwhile, thousands of greyhounds are being injured and killed every week. It's for those greyhounds that we campaign and engage in these discussions.
To finish off, you threw this out there, "When our president said he was cutting $100,000,000 from the budget did you think that was awesome?" Does that have anything to do with this discussion? Heck, for me and everyone I know, $100 million is a whole lot of money!
To close, I'll take your initial statement as a compliment, "Eric, you are the perfect supporter for GREY2K." Thank you. I think they're a wonderful organization doing great work for the greyhounds.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 06:32 PM
Leslie C said, "These dogs are treated well, prized even. They enjoy the running and the accident rate is less frequent than where my dogs go to dog daycare!" That just epitomizes the stupidity of some people. If your dogs are getting injured at dog daycare, don't take them there any more! We had to do that when one of our dogs got injured at a program. But the difference between racing greyhounds and pet dogs is that the greyhounds are put back in the races again and again. I guess you're like Candy Beck - you'll race your dog until it suffers a fatal or career-ending injury. Us? We value our greyhounds too much to put them in harms way.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 06:47 PM
Candy Beck said, "Grey2K is known for distorting the facts. On Nov. 6,2000, the Boston Herald called Grey2K's campaign to ban greyhound racing in Massachusetts '...a ruthless campaign of deceit, distortion and defamation of character'."
I'm having trouble finding that information from the Boston Herald. Was it perhaps NOT the Boston Herald who said that? Was it perhaps the greyhound track owner trying to prevent Grey2K from running TV ads who said that? And, perhaps, that statement was included in an article as a direct quote? Who's distorting the facts here, Candy? When you say the Boston Herald said this, you imply it was the paper or its staff. But, hey, when have the facts ever stopped a pro-racing supporter like you?
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 06:50 PM
fair guy said, "After greyhounds, what liberty will be next? You don't enjoy racing, don't go."
That's exactly what's been happening. That's why the industry is dying everywhere.
He went on to claim, "You're listening to people who wouldn't trade a mouse for the cure to cancer. People who don't want family pets to be allowed."
I don't know where you got that information, fair guy, but I don't think anyone here has said anything about using animals in research or keeping companion animals as pets. Again, you're trying to make a connection that just does not make sense. There's a significant difference between animals sacrificed to find cures for disease and greyhounds sacrificed for human entertainment and wagering.
P.S We're all just animals.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 06:54 PM
Again Eric you prove my arguement about your type with your statements above. Let's start with the $100 million budget reduction. YOU are not getting $100 million. The comparison to you would be you get a yearly raise of 1 cent. Is that alot of money? That is how that amount compares to the over all budget. Again it appeals to someone who can't think it through.
Ronnie Williams abused other peoples dogs and those other people along with everyone else in the greyhound business want him to go to jail for the rest of his life. But your using this isolated example to say all racing should be shut down. That same logic would say if someone abuses their pet then we should take away all pets to keep it from happening again.
You talked about the injury numbers with no real point except that they happened and the large number of dogs running makes the percentage seem small. That's because the numbers tell you it is. If you take a comparable number of instances in most sports or strenuous activities for people and dogs your going to have a comparable number of injuries. Do a study at dog parks. Little non-aggressive dogs are getting tore up all the time. I know of one that died from his injuries. Are you doing something about that?
I noticed you didn't comment on GREY2K not spending money on actual greyhounds or their fighting to keep money from the breast cancer charity so I'll assume you couldn't think of anything for that. You might ask them if they have tracked ALL of the dogs the helped dis-place when they helped shut down a track. Ask them if they made sure they weren't taken to other countries and put in much worse conditions by fake adoption groups. Surely if they care the have all of their where abouts documented.
Your comments about " thousands of greyhounds killed every week" and calling it a " cruel and inhumane business" tells everyone that what you say really has no factual basis.
Let's talk about the first thing you said. "There is a significant difference between pet ownership by individual families and the institutionalized abuse of racing greyhounds." Is there when it comes to abuse and inhumane treatment of animals? Is not an abused animal an abused animal regardless of their situation. So if we use your and the GREY2K's logic we should get rid of all activities where and animal is abused. That would include pet ownership because, yes Eric, there is documented proof of abuse and lots of it.
I and I believe most intelligent people, inlcuding greyhound folks, would say the answer is harsher punishment for the abusers not getting rid of the activities and pets.
Posted by: D. Dyal | March 17, 2011 at 07:33 PM
Decoupling will tell the entire story. Greyhound racing will be dropped faster than the announcer can say, "There goes Sparky!"
Posted by: Rosie R | March 17, 2011 at 07:35 PM
Eric,
You actually have to look if you want to find what the Boston Herald's Joe Fitzgerald said.
From the November 6, 2000 column in the Boston Herald by Joe Fitzgerald: "...you should be equally appalled by the efforts of a group called Grey2K to wage a ruthless campaign of deceit, distortion and defamation of character. Radical animal rights activists are determined to kill the greyhound racing industry in this state by any means necessary, which is why they weren't the least bit embarrassed when forced to admit that much of their advertising has been fraudulent. So if you go to the polls only to vote No on Question 3, you will have made a compelling statement, rejecting this attempt to ambush an industry through the dissemination of lies." The lies remain the same 8 years later. The MSPCA's job is to investigate any and all forms of animal cruelty and abuse. So where's the proof since there are no complaints, investigations or prosecutions against the tracks? VOTE NO ON 3 www.protectdogsandjobs.org
Posted by: Dick Ciampa | March 17, 2011 at 08:15 PM
At the end of the day, the greyhounds come out better off, so greyhound racing enthusiasts, please, let me apply a little salt to your wounds, a bit more, now here I'm going to rub it in really hard. RUB RUB RUB!
You've lost.
You've lost, because your born losers.
Deal with it. No sympathy from this quarter, the only sympathy I have is for the thousands of dogs you have run into the ground for the sake of your own selfish and callous entertainment.
I'm not a member of grey2K but I would happily see them on corporate wages for what they do.
Some jobs are just more important.
Posted by: AaronC | March 17, 2011 at 08:30 PM
Again, Dyal, the discussion of budget cuts is irrelvant to this discussion.
"Your comments about 'thousands of greyhounds killed every week' and calling it a 'cruel and inhumane business' tells everyone that what you say really has no factual basis." I did mistype, it should have been "year" instead of "week". As for the cruel and inhumane part, I stand by that.
"'There is a significant difference between pet ownership by individual families and the institutionalized abuse of racing greyhounds.' Is there when it comes to abuse and inhumane treatment of animals? Is not an abused animal an abused animal regardless of their situation?" Yes, same as there is a difference between a pet pig and a hog raised for market. But the hog raised for market should also be treated humanely. There is nothing humane about keeping a greyhound locked in a cage 20+ hours per day for several years. An abused animal is an abused animal, and they should be taken away from their abusers, whether that abuser is an individual or an industry. I guess we agree on that, though you probably don't see it the same way.
"I noticed you didn't comment on GREY2K not spending money on actual greyhounds." No, I didn't comment on that, because that's not their function. And they do support greyhounds in a number of direct ways.
"Or their fighting to keep money from the breast cancer charity so I'll assume you couldn't think of anything for that." I would imagine you're referring to the McGrath Foundation failing to accept a check from Australian greyhound racers. Perhaps you should check your facts again on that one. Grey2K had nothing to do with that issue. It was the McGrath Foundation who didn't take the check, perhaps viewing it as blood money. If you have a problem with the McGrath Foundation, take it up with them, but don't blame Grey2K.
"You might ask them if they have tracked ALL of the dogs the helped dis-place when they helped shut down a track." Heck, why don't we ask the tracks what happens to the greyhounds they dispose of every year, while they're still open. Grey2K aren't an adoption agency and they're not running the tracks, so I don't expect them to track individual greyhounds.
"Ask them if they made sure they weren't taken to other countries and put in much worse conditions by fake adoption groups." Like the greyhounds that have been shipped to Mexico by the racing industry? Or those shipped to Venezuela? Or maybe you intend to compare them to the attempts of Irish greyhound racers to sell dogs to China. As for "fake adoption groups", there are more than 300 existing groups out there. There should be no reason for anyone to establish a "fake" group except as a smokescreen to make dogs disappear. Oh, but wait, that happens in the industry, too, without making up fake adoption groups. Dogs just disappear into the ether. Pro-racers often claim that almost 95% of adoptable dogs actually are adopted. So what happens to the other 5%+ of adoptable dogs? See, they just vanish.
"Surely if they care the have all of their where abouts documented." Again, you would expect this of the greyhound industry. The dogs are reportedly tracked from birth, to marking, to racing, to... Well, that's where everything ends. When a dog is done racing, the documentation suddenly ends. If you want to claim that the industry is so "pro-greyhound", why can't they document what becomes of these animals?
Grey2K shows they care about greyhounds by working to end their abuse by the greyhound racing industry. The industry shows their love of these animals by caging them and then disposing of them when they're finished with them.
As for the injury numbers, I was pointing out flaws in your logic. Do you want to address those?
And as for Ronnie Williams, I was addressing your comment that each dog was worth $2,000 to $3,000. You said, "Ronnie Williams abused other peoples dogs and those other people along with everyone else in the greyhound business want him to go to jail for the rest of his life." That's good, because that's where people like him belong.
"But your using this isolated example to say all racing should be shut down." No, all racing should be shut down because it is inherently cruel and inhumane. The Ronnie Williams case is an example of just how bad the abuse can get in this industry. Tell me, why did nobody else at that track inquire about the smell coming from his kennel? Why did nobody else not notice his dogs were not being turned out? And if those dogs were so valuable, why were they left in the care of a man as incompetent as Williams?
"That same logic would say if someone abuses their pet then we should take away all pets to keep it from happening again." No, if pet abuse was an inherent part of having a companion animal, then the argument would be valid. But since abuse is not part of the equation, the comparison of ending pet ownership with ending racing is not appropriate. Perhaps a better comparison, since you were talking about Ronnie Williams, is that everyone who allows another to abuse an animal should be held accountable. To that end, the whole greyhound industry should be held accountable for the abuse of greyhounds. It goes back to the basics of racing - the dogs are kept in too small cages for too long, then abandoned when they're no longer profitable.
Let me pose a question to you. How many track owners/kennel owners/racing dog owners pay for the ongoing medical care of those dogs when they're handed over to an adoption agency? How many of those folks pay to have the animals spayed or neutered? How many of those folks spend a dime to help out with the care of animals brought in with broken limbs, tick infestations, parasites, etc.? Let me help you out with the answer - few to none. The racing industry has no interest in dogs that aren't making them money.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 08:42 PM
Stumble and fall at a high rate of speed
You'll not get the treatment you need
Upon the cold table you are placed
In the back building where you raced
Into your vein the fluid flows
Breathing and heartbeat begin to slow
Your eyes cloud over- you are still
One of thousands they will kill
You're still warm though don't make a sound
It's a part of the business this killing of hounds
In this business it's all about cash
That's why you're just a piece of trash
There's always one more to take your place
Another day another race
Dedicated to all the greyhounds who have been murdered, thanks
the racing industry's greed
Posted by: V W | March 17, 2011 at 09:27 PM
Thanks, Dick. I couldn't find it when I looked earlier, but with your information I was able to track it down. But I'm a bit confused about the reference to "eight years later". That's outside the quote for Fitzgerald's piece, but it doesn't make sense on its own, and makes even less sense when you consider that the same paragraph makes mention of voting against "3". Is that from the site you lifted the commentary from or did you type that?
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 09:31 PM
American kennel club (AKC)raises how many dogs each year ? Would 1 million be close!!Last time I checked it was more then ONE million. How many of those dogs never reach adult ? Compare that with National Greyhound Assoc and 12,801 individuals in 2010...
Posted by: mike | March 17, 2011 at 09:33 PM
Ya know, Mike, the AKC may not be the best group for you to compare greyhound racing to. The AKC does a lot of damage to animals by maintaining "breed standards" that lead to the breeding of dogs with genetic abnormalities, painful congenital conditions, and physical deformities. Greyhound racing has plenty of faults on its own. I guess you're trying to say, "If you think we're bad, look at them!" Yeah, they're bad, too, but that doesn't make you any better.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 09:48 PM
Speaking of the Boston Herald editorial, what ever happened to the lawsuit filed by a track owner concerning the claims of defamation of character? Oh, yeah, that's right - the individuals named in the lawsuit, including those at Grey2K, won, and the track owner had to pay all their legal fees. That doesn't sound like lies to me. In fact, it sounds like the Boston Herald piece bought into the claims of the track owner, even though those claims were not upheld in a court of law.
Posted by: Eric | March 17, 2011 at 09:52 PM
What next after greyound racing is finished !!
Would u start looking for terminal ill people to pull there Plug ?? Good luck with that Eric.
""Life is to be lived without hurting other people""..
Posted by: mike | March 17, 2011 at 10:56 PM
I'm a bit confused about some of these exchanges here. They seem to be of a personal nature, at times. I see one vs. the other. I see facts stated, and I see attacks stated.
I thought this was an article about the benefit to the state and the "business owners", meaning those who own the businesses, to decrease losses and increase profits.
I'm not sure there is a strong stance in support of continuing racing. Revenues are decreasing substantially. What the state collects is down. And to top it off, I have read track owners want to decouple racing because it has become a drain on business.
And the breeders and trainers, I understand it's their lifeline. This is all they have known. It’s a different time now. People change, interests change, businesses change.
I hate to be cruel, but being in IT, been there, done that. It's practical for the state to make this decision. It’s business. This is not the 50s where there was loyalty and there were lifelong commitments in jobs and pensions, etc. I’m sorry. That is just the way the world is now.
On the personal side, yes I want to see the racing gone. As one who has loved and cared for a suffering soul, one who was put to rest 2 months ago, I want to remove the possibility of this noxious existence from the others.
Business-wise? It makes sense. For those of us who strive to protect our greyhounds, it makes total sense.
And the reason for my post? For my beloved Berry. Rescued greyhound.
Posted by: Schember | March 17, 2011 at 11:38 PM