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Where will The U go Bowling? Plus, Mr. Scott

ST. THOMAS, Virgin Islands -- The dreams of reaching the ACC title game officially ended for Randy Shannon's Hurricanes Saturday. North Carolina lost and Virginia Tech won like it had to. But Virginia couldn't beat Clemson, ultimately ending Miami's hopes of winning a three-team tiebreaker (UM can't win a two-team tiebreaker with Georgia Tech or a three-team tiebreaker with GT and VT) and reaching the Dec. 6 title game.

Now, it's time to explore the possibilities of where Miami could be headed this bowl season. Should the Canes win at N.C. State (that doesn't look so easy anymore) they are pretty much guaranteed of going to one of the other top four ACC bowl tie-in games not named the Orange Bowl (which takes the ACC champion and the Big East champ) or Chick-Fil-A Bowl (which takes the ACC's No. 2 team and the SEC's 5th best team). At this point, UM can finish no worse than at least tied for 7th in the bowl pecking order should it lose to N.C. State (which means no trip to the blue turf in Boise). So, here is a look at the possible destinations and opponents. Let me know what you think and where you'd like to see the Canes play when you finish...

Gator_bowl> The Gator Bowl in Jacksonville on Jan. 1 versus a Big East team (maybe West Virginia who would likely be the runner-up; Notre Dame is playing its way out of it) or a Big 12 team (there are rumors Nebraska could go there). It's going to be hard for Miami to climb up to Gator Bowl status considering Georgia Tech beat them soundly and would get the edge should Virginia Tech win the Coastal Division and head to the ACC title game versus Florida State, Boston College or Maryland. It would have definitely been nice to see a UM-Notre Dame game. UM-Nebraska wouldn't be bad because it has history and the teams are schedule to meet in five years. But like I said, UM would have to beat N.C. State and probably have Virginia Tech and FSU lose next week to even be considered in the running for this game as the third or fourth best team in the conference.

Champs_sports_bowl> The Champs Sports Bowl in Orlando on Dec. 27 versus the Big Ten's No. 4/5 team (it's going to be either Northwestern or Iowa). This is probably where UM ends up if it wins at N.C. State -- especially when you consider Boston College (who could finish second or third in the Atlantic Division) played there last year. Orlando would love to have UM, which is only a three-hour drive away. The problem is a Miami-Northwestern or Miami-Iowa matchup isn't exactly sexy. But it looks like a game UM could win at least.

Meineke_car_care_bowl> The Meineke Car Care Bowl in Charlotte on Dec. 27 versus the Big East's No. 3/4 team (Rutgers, Pittsburgh or Connecticut). If the Champs Sports Bowl passes on an 8-4 UM team, look for the Meineke Car Care Bowl to scoop the Canes up because of their old Big East connections. A Miami-Pittsburgh or a Miami-Rutgers matchup would be sexy because you get Randy Shannon versus Greg Schiano or Randy Shannon versus Dave Wannstedt. If it's UM-UConn (which never really were Big East football rivals), look for the Canes to get passed up.

Music_city_bowl> The Music City Bowl in Memphis on Dec. 31 versus the SEC's 6th or 7th best team (Vanderbilt, Kentucky, South Carolina or Auburn). How about a game with the old ball coach Steve Spurrier on a cold night in Memphis? Not a bad draw for Miami. But UM-Vanderbilt or UM-Kentucky would bore me to tears. This is likely the game Miami heads to if it loses to N.C. State. Vanderbilt or Kentucky would definitely have home field advantage in SEC country.

Emerald_bowl> Finally, the Emerald Bowl in San Francisco on Dec. 27 versus the Pac 10's fifth best team or another substitute (possibly Fresno State). This is the place Miami is headed if everything goes against them if they lose to N.C. State and everybody passes them up in the pecking order. California or Arizona could be possible opponents in this game. But right now, the Pac 10 is so bad, people wouldn't be surprised if a WAC team got in instead.

> Now, to basketball. I actually did this interview on Wednesday shortly after Durand Scott announced his decision to skip out on UConn and Pittsburgh to head to UM. But considering the football Canes were about to take on Georgia Tech, I figured it was best to save it for a couple days.

Q: What made you decide on UM? You could have stayed closer to home?
Durand_scott3A: The first time I went down to Miami on an unofficial trip it was OK. But I wasn't feeling it. When I made my official visit with my mom, it hit me that I had to decide where I really wanted to spend the next four years of your life. It came down to whose hands are you willing to leave your life in -- and I felt comfortable with UM. Plus, Pitt and UConn are two schools who have already been there, done that. At Miami, I wanted to be part of the start of something and put them on the map.

Q: Was Frank Haith a big part of why you chose Miami? I heard assistant Jorge Fernandez played a part, too.
A: They both really made me feel comfortable. They were like friends for me, not just someone who talked to me about basketball. It was about life too. Coach Haith is a great coach. He's been through a lot. He knows what's best for a kid.

Q: When did UM actually get into the recruiting picture for you?
A: Probably around the end of my sophomore year in the summer. The first school that actually offered me was Arizona. And the first school that looked at me was Duke. Miami is just a team on the rise, a family unit. I like what it's all about.

Q: Miami has four seniors on this team including Jack McClinton who will be gone after this season. Was playing time a factor at all?
A: When they leave I know there's more opportunity for me to play. But it wasn't he biggest factor. I'm just a hard worker in general. If I just go there and work hard, I have confidence I'll be able to play and help the team. The opportunity is there for me to play. But it wasn't the top reason.

Q: What were the guys like when you made your visit? Did you feel at home with your future teammates?
A: When I first stepped on campus, I just loved the feel of being around everybody. When I first started looking for a school, the first thing I thought about was being comfortable around my teammates. We had to have the same mentality, the same goals, to win. I love people who work hard and want it more than anybody else. Once you have that me and you are going to click. Really, all I care about is winning. I'll do whatever it takes to win.

Q: The top player for UM its 2008 class was DeQuan Jones. Did you ever play against him on the AAU circuit? And what do you think of being his future teammate?
A: I never got to play against DeQuan. But he's a very explosive player. I'd love to play with him. He's so athletic, so fast, so good. I saw his dunk on YouTube. Watching him do something spectacular can lift you off your feet. He's the type of player I'd love to have on my team.

Q: What are you doing when you aren't playing hoops?
A: I'm by my books. If I'm not about the books, I'm not a going out guy. This year I've been kind of lonely up at school. I lost three of my best friends to college. So, I'm getting used to playing with some new teammates.

Q: I heard you got hurt? What happened and how bad is it?
A: I pulled a ligament in my ankle. I went to the doctor and I'll be out three weeks. But I'll be in the lineup soon. I'm dying to get back out there. We lost in the state championship last year. I want to win this year.

Q: How do you know Malcolm Grant? I heard he played a role in getting you to UM, too.
A: He's from New York like me. I played against him when I was a freshman and he was a senior. We kept in contact even after he got into Villanova. The first time I saw him, I said this kid is going to be good. Some times things don't go as you wanted. I think its kind of a blessing for him and for me that we'll get to play together. I thank god for it. He's a special point guard.

Comments

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first!

#2, Go CANES!!!!
Beat the hell out of N.C. State!!!

I want Nebraska.

Nice work Manny.

GO CANES, BEAT UCONN!!!

Hey Manny, the Music City bowl is played in Nashville , not Memphis. I personally wouldn't mind it if Miami played here 'cause then I wouldn't have to travel to see 'em. Since we are spoiled anyway and group all the non-championship bowls together outside of Jan. 1 dates any bowl this year would be fine. It just gives the Baby Canes one more game and a month's worth of extra practice to get ready for the ACC championship next year.

Manny,

Thanks for clarifying the Bowl situation.

On the ACC site, step #2 on the 3-team tie-breaker (division record) favors the 'Canes/VT. I'm either reading it wrong or I'm on a dated site.

The ACC championship game would have given us one more "big time" (I guess that term is relative) opportunity/experience. It seems that the level of Bowl game we've dropped to gives us a good chance to do some good things, given the opponent.

Who knows, maybe the Bowl will be a game where one of these two QB's takes the position by the balls and we never look back, ala Dorsey in the 2000 Gator.

Congrats to Myron Rolle for winning a Rhodes Scholarship. It's a darn shame when the only reason why he didn't come to Miami was because Miami didn't recruit him hard enough. Thanks Larry Coker (Coach Shannon u get some blame too.) Another shame is the fact that alot of his teammates can't spell Rhodes ( Good ole FSU education!!). Nation how many of you would like to have him in our secondary right now ? I'd like to see Miami in Orlando or Jacksonville. Miami is notorious for not bringing huge numbers of fans to bowls but hopefully without having to leave the state a huge turnout of the nation would show up.

Great Job Manny.

Thanks for clearing up the bowl situation.

Peronally, I'd like the Champs Sports Bowl. A Big Ten school wouldn't be able to touch our speed. If we win big it'd be a great boost going into next season.

Quick question for you...

Who do you see being Miami's next committ for the '09 class?

anyone know where the miami-UConn bball game will be shown?

Give us Rutgers!!! I would love the story lines in that game.

Great interview, Manny! I'm thrilled to see Durand commit to UM... can't wait until he gets here!

Manny,

What's good partna! I was hopting for UM vs ND in the Gator Bowl, but ND screwed that up yesterday falling too Syracuse. Champ Sports Bowl would be BORING! So for me its either Gator Bowl or Meineke Car Care Bowl. Miami vs Pitt would be cool (since McCoy was a UM commit at one time). Also Rutgers vs UM would be cool considering Schiano snubbed us. Also a UM WVU game would be intriguing, but mobile QBs are tuff for us. Not interested in seeing us vs UCONN.

I'd like to also congratulate Myron Rolle for his accomplishment yesterday. I hate FSU and like to believe they are all crimi-noles, but I have respect what that kid has done. Pretty amazing!

The UConn-UM bball game has not been picked up nationally. I think this like Virgin Island tour is something that ESPN hasn't recognized. It's too bad, because that's probably the game of the day (maybe Xavier Memphis is good, but this one should be better).

I said earlier this week that it looked like Miami was headed to the Music City Bowl. But since nobody wants to win the ACC, it looks like Miami may be a little higher in the pecking order. I think they are going to the Champ Sports Bowl and will probably play some way overrated Big Ten team. Although, Iowa has been playing pretty well recently.

Great to read the comments by Scott. Sounds like a smart kid who really wants to be here.
Canes have a great shot at being a contender in the ACC for years to come.

I live in CT. Im going to the sports bar this evening, and Im going to be THAT GUY, the one with the smile while everyone else is livid. Go Canes. Get it inside to Collins, McGowan, and Graham. Put Thabeet in foul trouble.

Let's not forget the last time the 'Canes took down these punks:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1-HNTFwJqg

wow a player from FSU who isnt a criminole. Seems like a smart, solid kid, unlike his punk teammates who get away with crimes left and right, e.g. Preston Parker!

The U blew it when they didnt bring it against GT. They quit. Coaches were dis-com-ba-bulated and so was the D. Marve seems like he is lost.

So much for "Mr Football" . What does that imply about the status of florida qbs? In my opinion, Florida qbs stink. Te-bown is no qb. he is a full back disguised as qb. His style of play will be mediocre at best in the NFL. UM can't recruit a good qb to save their lives. I mean- look at Sam Bradford of Ok. He is a true sophomore, so I dont want to hear the "too young" excuse. Jacorry Harris seems like he is the one. Sit MArve, and make either Cannon Smith or Taylor Cook number 2. I have (we have) seen enough of Marve for 11 games. I am not impressed whatsoever, especially due to his inconsistency. he is athletic and tough but dumb as a door knob---exactly like Brock Berlin!! I mean they even look alike! That int that he threw against GT was a pathetic summary of his inability to read Ds. Period. The pass should never have been thrown. jacoorys int instead, was less his fault than LaRon Byrds. And finally, UM coaches: quit recruiting rbs and wrs: this is waht UM needs:
1) an OC
2) an O Line
3) dbs
4) the swag


Going Down ...


Lobby

Jaime, you brought it with your comments my man. A little hard on Marve, but true nonetheless. Jesse Palmer was no slack QB and he called it during the Tech game. He sees the offense with a different pep when JH is in the game versus Marve.

The results and focus of the D could have been much better had we done anything on offense. Every ESPN commentator has made note of the fact that we have NO offensive identity. Can you imagine what a Spurrier or Leach or Carroll would do with our talent?

I'm really trying to believe in the long term ability of this coaching staff, but it gets harder to keep the faith as I see what other teams with young talent are doing. Hell, NC State had a redshirt freshman QB light a UNC team that we lost to. And they did on the road no less!! Boston College loses their starting QB, brings in a true freshman running QB and they win! On the road at Wake Forest.

Shannon has to make a call this offseason and stick with JH and have a come to Jesus meeting with Nix. Identify the style of this offense or leave! As for the bowl game, I'll take anything FL.

GO CANES!!

Even tho we were embarrassed on thursday, lets all take a minute to laugh at notre dame because they have 1 yes 1 win against a winning team...at that is navy a team they beat 43 years in a row what a joke they are! charlie weiss...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Although I'm the biggest die-hard Cane fan I know, I am sort-of glad we won't win the ACC and play a team like an Oklahoma, Alabama, USC, or Texas Tech in the Orange Bowl.

Don't you fellas realize what they'd do to us? We'd lose 66-10 (like at Syracuse), 40-3 (like vs. LSU in Peach Bowl), or get trashed as we did vs. Ga Tech. A loss like that would set the program back even further. It hurts me to say, but we're not ready yet to face that kind of competition, especially until Shannon agrees to let Jacory start in place of Marve and play him for 4 quarters.

It's tough to swallow, but what would be better for our development as a team, as well as closing out this recruiting season, is to go to a 2nd or 3rd or 4th tier bowl game, play a decent team, and win. These are the kinds of bowls Manny tells us we're still in the hunt for.

A final record of 9-4, or 8-5 with a bowl win over a somewhat good team, especially a 'name team' (ex. Nebraska, Auburn) would do us more overall good than getting humiliated by a top-tier team in January.

Thoughts?

After having a few days to reflect on the lose to GT and watching ACC teams like FSU,BC and V-Tech play defense. It's clear or defense is not in the same class as those teams. Simply put we play soft and a very poor tackling team. That aint just started this season but it goes back since Shannon became D-Cordinator. Let's go back to the Ohio State championship game. We could not stop the QB from running. We could not stop the run and could not get off the field on 3rd down. Then we really were exposed in the West Virginia game in i wanna say 03. The UNC game the following year. FSU,Duke,Wake and GT this year. Now what do they have in common? Shannon was D-Cordinator. I don't care what you say, this is not B.Youngs defense. It's the same ole Shannon read and react not agressive passive defense. Where is the other teams i mentioned earlier bring pressure on 3rd downs regardless of distance and get off the field. Which leads to sacks and turnovers. All of which are down and dropping every year. Especially when compared to when Schiano ranned the Defense. 3 INT's for the season is just pitiful and all because of lack pressure. We must get more agressive on defense.

Our Offense in my mind is bipolar!! I don't claim to be a coach but i do play Madden. If i were calling playys there would be 5 plays i would run every Qtr. 1.Deep pass (Bomb) to loosing up the defense. 2. End Around (Great misdirection play especially with speed like Benjamin and Collier) hell they always seem to work on us. 3. Screen pass ( Get Cooper and James in space). 4. Bubble Screen (Get Receivers in space). 5. Delay-Draw (Cooper,Chambers or Mcneal touches in space). U get the picture. The object of the game is to create mismatches and but explosive players in space.

I know the passion i have for the U is showing but 2 more thing before i close. Shannon i'm afraid if u don't put your best players on the field that U are going to lose this team. With that being said there is no doubt in my mind that Jacory is the guy. He is clearly better and mature beyond his years. How come we all see that and not you? Cook and Reddick must be replaced. U cannot tell me that they are the bset we have in there positions. If not i would play the guys with more potential. Those guys been missing tackles for 5 and 6 yrs and setting bad examples. Remember poor tackling is CONTAGIOUS.

Recruit some NASTY LB's,O-linemen,D-lineman,Safety then find some BALLHAWKING DB's.

bobjohnson-

You're 100% right! Notre Dame sucks, and that ALWAYS makes me feel better about life.

It doesn't matter who Notre Dame is playing, I will A-L-W-A-Y-S root for them to lose.

My stocks are down, the value of my home has depreciated, and Obama is about to raise taxes substantially.

But all of these are a little easier to swallow when Notre Dame football absolutely sucks as it did last year and this!!

LOL

Yea, you're right duvalcanesfan.... Did anyone else see they list Anthony Reddick as one of our IMPACT players? LOL! give me break he can't tackle for his life and he's our SR starting SS.... what a joke.........

Re: UM QB Stats

Does anyone know how I can get my hands on the official season stats for Jacory Harris and Robert Marve?

We ALL know that Jacory is better, but I think we fans, along with the media, should be referencing the numbers more often (and not just the 'eyeball test') in making the case for why Jacory should start over Marve.

I am looking for the total attempts, completions, yardage, touchdown passes, and INTs for each guy.

I'd also be interested in getting my hands on 3 other things: 1) how many series has each played under center, 2) how many first downs the offense gained while each was playing QB, and and 3) how many of those series for each guy ended in a field-goal.

I am 110% positive that all of these stats will back-up what we all see with our plain eyes- that JACORY IS THE GUY.

Again- I think we the fans, and then the media, will be able to bring more collective pressure on Shannon to start Jacory when the black-and-white stats are part of our argument, instead of an amorphous "Jacory is obviously better."

thanks!

I got these at ESPN. They are not as detailed as you asked for but they make the point. The more interesting stat is the one you asked about - scoring drives. I don't have any doubt that stat favors Jacory.

Passing Statistics
NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
Robert Marve 107 201 1162 53.2 5.78 8 11 104.0
Jacory Harris 81 133 863 60.9 6.49 9 4 131.7

SJMPARMAN- thanks so much for finding us those stats! All I can say is.... WOW! As predicted, the #'s back up what we all feel we're seeing on the field.

The numbers are extremely telling:

*Marve has only 299 more passing yards than Harris, though he's played a tremendous amount more.

*Harris has the better percentage of completions,60.9% vs. 53.2%. That is actually a pretty big difference, and anything in the 50's is pretty so-so for college football.

*Marve has thrown 8 TDs and 11 INTs, whereas Jacory has thrown 9 TD's and only 4 INTs! Can you believe that, more TD's than Marve with far, far fewer chances!

*Jacory's QB Rating is 131.7 vs. 104.0 for Marve.

*I am sure that if we knew the total # of scoring drives per QB, and the percentage of series that result in points, that Jacory would FAR excel Marve here too.

HELLO?! MEDIA?! FANS?! COACHES SHANNON AND NIX?!? Do you not see the numbers- they're glaringly obvious!!!

Yes, we know you promised Marve he'd start each game this year, but would you rather WIN or or keep your word and risk losing?

I want the best possible bowl game we can get.. so Gator bowl

I have been saying this every chance I get and will continue to harp on this point, which is Jacory needs to get the most snaps for the next 2 games. Without his efforts against Virginia and Duke, this team would be looking at finishing 5-7. If he continues to play Marve and let Jacory watch until mop-up time, we will lose the next 2 games. I know coach wants to build this team around the defense and, while they have shown improvement over the year, this team cannot not depend on them to win yet, which was obvious by the GT game. Unfortunately, RS is stubborn as a mule and I think he will continue to limit Jacory to ensure things are done "his way," which will result in a disappointing end to an otherwise promising season. It could also result in Jacory transferring. I wish someone on the coaching staff would step up and insist that Jacorry gets the majority of the snaps the next 2 games.

NJCane.....I read your post and couldn't agree with you more. These Canes are coming along, but not good enough to compete in a big time bowl game this year. Too many questions that need to be addressed in the off season.

1. QB....Jacory MUST be named starter
2. O line..Needs a lot of work and adjustments
3. DB's need to be bigger, stronger,faster and much, much more aggressive
4. Patrick Nix.....????????????????

But getting back to your post..Canes not ready to move on. Agreed they would only be embarrased and the future of the program would be jeapordized with another emarassing defeat.

Just let this year playout and work on positives for next year.

Let's face it. These Canes have come a lot farther than any of us could have ever believed considering how young and inexperienced they were going into this season.

I believe Randy was smart handling the QB situation they way he did, because when it this year is over he will sit them both down and show them the stats so there is little question on the starting QB for next year. After that, then one of these young men can make their own decision on whether to stay at the U or move on.

For the programs sake, I hope Jacory is the starter as he has proved time after time that he has the temperment, poise and patience to be the leader of this program.

Marve has just never been able to make the transition from high school to the speed of the college ranks. Way to nervous and unable to make the necessary progressions to his receivers. Poor decisions as evident by his completion and interception ratio. Most of all, the team chemistry just doesn't seem to be there when Marve is calling the plays.
Anyway, we'll see how Shannon handles that aspect of the team.

Until then, continued good luck to our Canes wherever this year may take them.


You're all crazy...Marve is a better QB than Jacory Harris. Marve can make throws that Jacory Harris and he's got more athletic ability. The stats don't show how many balls these receivers have dropped on Marve.

Marve throws very well on the run which will be important when we face team that blitz us. He needs to work on making his progressions, that's really the only thing Jacory does better. I know its a key thing, but it can be coached....just not by Pat Nix.

I wonder how is Shannon going to handle the NIX FIRING
and how long will it take to get a new OC.

Canesjunkie- you are certainly welcome to your opinion that Marve is a better QB than Jacory Harris. However, I would strongly disagree with the basis of your opinion.

You pointed out that "Marve can make throws that Jacory Harris can't." None of us know if that's really true as we're not watching them practice daily. But assuming it is, where has that gotten us so far? Jacory has led us to more TD's than Marve with about 20% of the opportunities!!

You also wrote that Marve has "got more athletic ability" than Harris. Again- I don't any of us can say with certainty whether that's true. But assuming it was, what difference does it make?

I am confident that J. James, T. Benjamin and A. Bailey are pound-for-pound stronger, faster, and quicker than Marve, ie. "more athletic." Does that mean that THEY should be our starting QB's?? The argument of athleticism completely misses the point.

This isn't a body building contest, and it's not even the NFL combine. Wouldn't you rather have Missouri's Chase Daniel as our QB over Marve?

6 weeks ago, I heard ESPN announcers laughing that Daniel has a gut and looks like a frat boy.. but so what? He puts up 3,000+ passing yards a year and about 40-50 points per game.

**THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS WHICH QB CAN LEAD THE CANES TO MORE POINTS AND WITH FEWER ERRORS.

Without question- Jacory has done that with far fewer opportunities than Marve. (See my post above).

Therefore, using the criteria I mention here, and not bench press or 40 yard dash time, I don't see how anyone can state that Marve is a better QB than Harris.


Agreed NJcane. Marve does not pass the eye test. He may be more physically gifted and may even have more potential with what he can do. But how many coaches have been fired over potential. Harris is a playmaker. He has the vision, the calm, and confidence of his team when he's in there. Marve has all the tools but he lacks the vision of a great QB. He doesn't see the field and doesn't have the feel of it. I actually think Harris is a better runner than Marve. Not because of his speed but he knows when to run and when to pass. He just has the playmaking knack that Marve doesn't have. I predict the QB competition will reopen next fall and Harris will be the new starter and Marve will be doing what Harris is. RS is sticking to his word because he wants to be a man of his word, even if it's not best for the team's success this year. Next year when he says Harris is the starter all year we will believe him because of how much he has stuck to it with Marve this year.

BUT WE GOTTA GET RID OF NIX!

I sort of agree with canesjunkie. I believe that Marve doesnt get the backing from the other players like Harris does when it comes to dropped passes. He can make all the throws because of his stronger arm but sometimes it gets him in trouble because he thinks that he can make or fit a throw in when he shouldnt throw it. His receivers drop at least 3 passes a game if not more so his percentage should be around 60 to 65% which would also bring up his QB rating as well.
He does move better in the pocket also like getting away from sacks.
All this said though, I am still up in the air of who i would prefer back there. My ole QB side of me says Marve but my head says Harris. I think this will go on until next year and then we will be able to see who is the better qb for sure.

GUYS Nix is so confused that he plays Marve as a QB/RB
when he has 5 RB's in his roster. It's OK to have the QB scramble once in a while, but Marve has as many or more runs than a RB.
It is crystal clear that J.Harris is the better QB...he looks relaxed and poised plus he moves the team with ease...it looks so natural. And he's + outwheigh the -'S. Against GT he should have come in after the 2nd series when MArve looked lost, it was clear, and Marve wouldn't have thrown the pic 6.

Conclusion: NIX MUST GO.... NIX HAS TO GO if not
we will continue to be toast and it won't matter how many 5 star Recruits we get.
It's like having a BMW driven by the maid and wanting to get her a Porsche next year.

RM hasn't been the same since he threw the picks againsts UCF. I'm not sure if his confidence was shaken after that game or the coaches advised him to just tuck it and run when no one's open, but he just hasn't been right since then. On the other hand, JH has progressed the way I thought RM would. I figured there would be more separation between the two by now, but sometimes things don't work out as expected. One play that sticks in mind was against VTech. I believe it was on our last FG drive. Watching it live, there was a play fake where RM rolled to his right, didn't find anyone and had to throw it away. The play didn't look particularly crisp and Chris Fowler said there was nothing there. But when they showed the replay, Craig James pointed out that Sam Shield ran a post corner and was open if RM would have seen him early. Now, does this mean that what looked like a poorly designed play was actually a good one where we just couldn't connect? This just underscores how difficult it is to isolate one thing and say that's our problem...most of you conclude its the OC...I'm of the opinion that its not so simple.

Our success or failure on offense will rest with the offensive line. I know it isn't sexy to say that, but this is the truth. The offensive line is the reason OU's offense can be so explosive. Its also the reason why Texas Tech could look unstoppable against Texas and Oklahoma St, then look mediocore against OU. OU got consistent pressure on the Texas Tech QB and since they don't have much of a running game, they were dead in the first half. The reason our defense was so successful against the Gators was because we were winning the battle at the line of scrimmage. We constantly got pressure on Tebow, we stuffed most of their inside runs, and even contained their spread runs to the outside. When you can do these things, it doesn't matter who's calling plays for the opposing offense...they're going to have a long day.

At the beginning of the year, the consensus from Manny and other pundits was that the team was going to rely heavily on our backs - JJ and Coop, particularly given the youth/inexperience at QB and receiver. I'm not a rocket science, but I imagine opposing teams knew as much as well. As a result, everyone attacks the line of scrimmage with reckless abandon against us. They don't even fear play fakes. They run through the ball carrier and head straight for the QB if he still has it. FSU was especially aggressive against us, but you must still be able to pass protect in those situations to have enough time to burn the defense or have a QB nimble enough to avoid the pressure and still find the open man. The latter is a little harder when you're playing with freshmen QBs.

Again, I don't care who's your OC...sucess starts at the line of scrimmage. Its the reason Alabama is #1 in the country. For all of you idiots who think Saban would have this team further along, you're kidding your self. For us, its going to take at least another two successful recruiting classes to shore up the roster enough to compete for a BCS bowl slot.

NJcane:

You make a lot of good points, but I just think Marve has more long term potential than Harris. There's no doubt Jacory has made the most of his opportunities and that he appears more poised than Marve. I just think that Jacory Harris will reach the limit to his talent before Robert Marve does.

Marve has issues, I'm not saying he doesn't, but scanning the field and progressions can be coached and acquired with time. I don't think Jacory Harris will get a stronger arm or grow much in physical stature over the next 3 years. I do think Marve can learn to throw the ball with more touch and not force his throws. Marve is playmaker, he just needs the WR's to make plays for him. He's got a gun and is also a threat on the run. Harris is in sync with Aldarius Johnson which accounts for a lot of these drives he's led us on.

I understand there's a concern over Marve being a 'Kyle Wright Jr.', a guy with the physical ability and poor decision making. Therefore we should open up the QB competition next year. If we base it on performance this year, Harris starts. I just think Marve is more talented and would eventually take the job back.

Nix has so many shortcomings as an OC that I don't think we can say one QB if definatly better than the other. I'm just basing it on potential.

PeteRoc:

Our offensive line isn't that great. Aside from the Texas A&M game, we haven't been able to consistently run on anyone.

Are we landing any solid offensive linemen recruits in 09? This is something that really needs to be addressed. It really is the key to everything else....especially the QB.

PCola and NJ Cane- I agree totally. Canes Junkie: I played golf with a former UM OC when Berlin was about to leave- I asked:what do you think about Dorsey? Answer- the smartest qb I have ever seen or coached. I can coach for a 100 yrs and never see a qb like dorsey. What about Kyle Wright? Answer- he has the best physical tools of any qb in college bar none. period. The next 3 years are now history.

My point is- Who cares about phsyical ability when you donthave it upstairs? QBs need to make reads, know when to hold, know when to fold, know when to run, make their progressions. Marve cant do neither. he runs when he could have found his third qb, and then he tries to make plays last second. translation: INT. This is EXACTLY what Brock Berlin did and often. MArve can actually run waaay better than Kyle Wright, and throw better than Kirby freeman.

Jacorry is cool, smart and incredibly accurate. The offense seems to be in a different flow also.

Another point which I am sure you all would agreee with: How is it that Nix hasnt ben able to find a way to use bothe JJ and GC as tandem rbs? I mean its like GC runs up the middle 6 times to the side twice, does well for one or two plays, then is completely shut down. Why not alternate the two, or put both in, say, have JJ as fb? And why havent we used the TEs as much as we did in the garbage period against GT and did quite well?

Nix must go. No question. Furthermore, if our O cant put together sustaimned drives WHEN IT COUNTS, then our D will suffer. Example and proof- the long drive that JH put together rested the D enough for the OT.

Randy; Whytcant youlisten to the people? Stop being so stuborn!We aint football stupid, in fact, Randy, I've been following football as long as you.

I am also puzzled about how unprepared the D was against the Option. Ok ok , so we were doing ok for the first two qs, down 3-0. Then, guess what. The worse int throw I have seen since Kenny kelly. me and my fat a-- could have thrown a better ball than that. Robert, What were you thinking? But that is not the only blunder he has made, come on, he has had 11 games to prove himself!

The D played like they didnt even know GThad the option offense or a running qb. Didnt they know that their first 4-5 passing plays were just a decoy? Then they began their bonafide running blitzkrieg! UMs coaches looked like 1A high school qbs. So this is more on the coaches than on the players. i'm sorry. Totally clueless. Totally.
This is on you Randy, You Nix, You Hurtt.

it doesnt matter where the canes play, not many people will follow. no-one wants to spend alot of money when this team wont be coached well enough to win. for 6 years since dorsey left, the offense has been pathetic. now UM has 2 QBs, and its still pathetic. bad coaching cost coker his job, and it will do the same next year for shannon. this recruiting class isnt that good if you count all the receivers. they cant catch. benjamin is scared, not because hes hurt, hes just scared. id like to see what the experts rank about this class now. maybe top 40

Mike:
You bring up a good point about Benjamin. He was looking tentative even before the injury. He hasn't hit the afterburners once he gets the kickoff in 4 games. I won't say that he is scared but something has certainly changed. He looks like he is running 4.9 instead of 4.2.

Shannon stepped up and admitted he made a mistake on the DCoord last year. Let's hope he makes that same conclusion and not retain Nix.

We better get ready to spend some money on an experienced OC, we don't have time for anyone to learn on the job. Rob Chudzinski might be available if the Browns fire their coach. Don't know if he'd be interested in coming back to coach in college.

Someone needs to give Benjamin Devin Hester's cell number.

Thanks to all of you for your comments on Marve vs Harris and for reading my posts. I'd like to respond to a point that has been raised in favor of Marve:

The argument goes like this: "Marve would look much better if the WR's stopped dropping his passes. His stats would be better and we'd have scored more points. The WR's drop more passes for him than Harris."

First of all, discussing the 'would've,' 'should've,' and 'could've' of QB's and dropped passes is always a pointless discussion. For example- who was a better QB- Elway or Marino? And for those who vote Marino, maybe we should factor in all of those years that Elway's WR's dropped lots of balls in key situations? Maybe they would have scored a few more points here and there and thus advanced further in key playoff situations? Maybe Elway really WAS better!

Or how about this one- who was a better UM QB: Jim Kelly, B. Kosar, or Steve Walsh, when factoring in dropped passes?

Do you really think this is a valid way to evaluate someone's season or career? Come on, fellas- we all know this is silly and a pointless argument to raise. All we EVER have to go on in terms of evaluating a QB's long-term performance (a career, or even 11 games) is what he has produced in terms of points on the scoreboard and wins in the win column, drops and all.

Secondly, I'm not so quick to accept the premise that the WR's have dropped more passes for Marve. In fact, I've seen them drop quite a few beauties from Harris! One in particular stands out in my mind- a gorgeous pass to (I believe) Aldarius Johnson thrown in the V-Tech game that would have been a 35+ yard gain. It hit him in the hands, and it was painful to watch the replays of that drop again and again.

Third of all, if the WR's have dropped more Marve passes than Harris passes, could it be that Harris simply throws a more catchable ball and thus the drops are another reason why HARRIS is better QB? What might at first appear to be a defense of Marve's performance might actually be a criticism of him!

Lastly, if it's true that the WR's drop more passes for Marve than Harris, maybe it's simply because he is playing more often and thus throws the ball more often? Perhaps the truth is that the WR's often just suck and drop everyone's passes- but because Harris has a more limited number of throws in his stat-line, it appears that the WR's have fewer drops with him in the game.

=========================

I honestly and sincerely want the Canes to win very badly- and statistics and logic, coupled with the 'eye-ball test' all tell me that Harris should be getting the bulk of QB playing time.

I would love to hear any logical responses or refutations to what I wrote above, as I only what what's best for the team and am open to being convinced that I'm dead-wrong on these 'dropped passes' arguments.

Just a reminder...Rob Chudzinski was the OC in Brock Berlin's first year here. By everyone else's logic, he wasn't a good OC considering our offense was down that year.

Don't get me wrong, I think Chud was a great OC, but I also recognize that you just can't bring some big name guy in here and expect magic. If that were true, Charlie Weiss should have been able to keep Notre Dame's offense prolific after that seemed to be the case his first two years.

I trust that RS will evaluate the coaches in the offseason and do what's right for the program. Doing what's right might not mean changing OCs. Just b/c you get rid of someone doesn't mean a genius OC is out there just waiting for us to hire him.

NJcane,

I think if you compare how both QBs have evolved this year, I do agree that JH has shown the most improvement since the start of the season. I go back to the UCF game as the moment RM's growth stalled. Conversely, JH started to take off during the Duke game (which happened to be the next game).

Having said that, the way they've handled the QBs meant JH would never have a bad game. We know he'll get at least 2 series each game, but if nothing's happening when he's in, they don't bring him back (exhibit A & B: Wake Forest and Virginia Tech). Granted, we don't know what would have become of those games had he stayed in, but that reinforces my point. JH goes into every game with very little downside risk in terms of the fan's perception. If he's hot, he stays in...if nothing's happening after two series, we never find out if things would get better, worse, or neutral.

On the other hand, RM's highs and lows are magnified b/c he's in there for most of the snaps. I remember how everyone got so upset during the UF, Texas A&M, and UNC games when JH would go in, just when it seemed the offense was starting to click with RM.

I say all of this to say the scenarios haven't been similar enough to allow for an apples-to-apples evaluation. Personally (and I think ChicagoCane has said as much, I feel like this year has been one long training camp and evaluation period. It will continue into the spring, and we should hope that someone emerges as the standout. Given how this year has gone, both will have every incentive to work on their bodies, watch film, and all the other little things the great QBs do since its pretty clear that neither of them will go into the spring as the presumed starter.

PS - I too have like JH better, but that doesn't mean he's the better choice for our team next season.

I trust that RS will evaluate the coaches in the offseason and do what's right for the program. Doing what's right might not mean changing OCs. Just b/c you get rid of someone doesn't mean a genius OC is out there just waiting for us to hire him.

Posted by: PeteRoc | November 24, 2008 at 10:27 PM


Gus Malzahn at Tulsa is a genius OC

Those of you who think RM is as good as JH just haven't been paying attention. JH progresses thru his reads MUCH better than Marve and usually throws to the right guy. RM panics too early and never gets past the second read before he tucks the ball under his arm and takes off or makes an ill-advised throw. JH also has a much better touch on his balls, which accounts for fewer dropped passes, although his not immune to that problem, unfortunately. Add to this that both the offense and defense seem to play better with him leading this team. The 2 might have started out the season even, or even with RM a little ahead, but since mid-season Jacory has been playing much better ball. I don't think it is even close. Of course Jacory has gotten more time on the pine since his heroics in back to back games at Duke and Virginia, which really is perplexing. Like I said before, this team would have 2 more losses to this point if not for JH and this season would be looking at lot like last season. By the same token, this team could very well lose its next 2 games if JH does not get most of the snaps. Mark my words.

I agree with Peteroc.. Who knows watd happen is Harris was in for a whole game like Marve basically does. Harris gets hott n gets to stay in, if he stalls than marve gets to go the rest of the game. Hes lucky he gets that. I still like harris better, i feel like the WRs work better with him and he just reminds me so much of Dorsey, so calm cool n collected, n throws a beautiful pass

PeteRoc,

You raise an interesting point with your comment that "the way the coaches have handled the QB means Jacory would never have a bad game." I think there is a little something to that, and that it has created almost a win-win for him. But I don't think it's anywhere as simple as you make it out to be. I'd like to challenge two of your assumptions:

First of all, given the overall amazing and superior level of play he's shown all season, it's completely unfair to pull Jacory after only one or two series "if nothing's happening." There's no QB in the history of football, on any level, who's led his team to a scoring drive on his first possession, irrespective of field position, in every single game of his career. Given that Jacory's body of work this season is superior to that of Marve, he deserves that we realize this and give him a much longer opportunity weekly.

Dorsey, Kosar, J. Kelly, Walsh, Toretta, etc. didn't always score in their 1st and 2nd drives, but that doesn't mean they weren't superior talents to whoever was backing them up at the QB position. Neither did Marino, Elway, Namath, Montana, etc. My point here is that the "if nothing's happening after 1-2 drives they should pull Jacory" argument doesn't hold water. It would require we hold Jacory to a standard that we've never asked of any QB in history. QB's warm up, no? And thus I discount his 1-2 series in the Wake Forest game as a reason he shouldn't be our starting QB.

(Remember, the only thing I've been discussing on this blog is whether Jacory should start over Marve at this point in the season- not who has more long-term upside, etc..)

Secondly, contrary to what you asserted- what has infuriated me at many points in the season is that JACORY IS PULLED EVEN WHEN HE IS PRODUCING!! It's not true that nothing was happening when he was pulled against V-Tech. On his first series, he started the drive backed up at the UM 3 yard line, with 97 yards to go. We mostly ran our way to a 3-and-out, so it's tough to say that Jacory did nothing on this drive. On his second drive Jacory had better starting field position, he picked up 1 or 2 first downs, and threw an absolutely beautiful pass to Aldarius Johnson that floated into his hands, on the run, and he dropped it. It would have been a 35+ yard gain, for another first down. Had he not dropped it, we'd have been at the V-Tech 25 or 30. After the drop, we were deflated, we punted, and we never saw Jacory again!

I'd also add that I was furious that Jacory was pulled in the Ga-Tech game, because here HE WAS PRODUCING as well! He moved the ball well on his first series, picked up at least 1 first down, and then threw that pick that was Byrd's fault. On his 2nd series, he led us down the whole field, and then to a field goal. He was producing and yet he was still pulled!

In my mind- refusing to start Jacory in the following game after the way he finished the Duke and Virginia games ALSO counts as BENCHING HIM WHEN HE'S PRODUCING!

I therefore completely reject the premise that Jacory is pulled if he's not hot. I think it's completely false. He's being pulled, no matter what he does.

Having produced so much, including more TD's than Marve, yet with about 20% of the opportunities, how can they keep playing him so sparingly? How can they keep pulling him even though he almost always produces for us?

PeteRoc- you're right that we haven't been able to have an apples-to-apples evaluation. That would have required that UM play each opponent this season twice- one with each QB at the helm for a full game. Reality has made that impossible. We have what we have.... And whoever has the most long-term talent, or NFL potential, or will be the best QB for the Canes in 3 years is totally irrelevant to me.

All I have been clamoring for is that given his obviously superior performance (statistically and in terms of the eyeball test) Jacory be given the chance to start for the last 2 games of the season, and that Marve should be the one used sparingly.

Bottom line: I have yet to hear one cogent explanation why Marve should start over Jacory for the last two games, or why Marve has shown himself to be a better QB for UM throughout the actual season and thus earned himself the continued privilege to be the starter.

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