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The Numbers Don't Lie

If you haven't seen the story I wrote on UM strength and condtioning coach Andreu Swasey yet, here's the link. This week, I spent two days with Swasey as he prepared seniors (as well as a collection of other football players from other colleges) for Pro Day. Inside his gym were players from Louisville, Memphis, Mississippi State -- even former Canes who transferred out like James Bryant and Charlie Jones and were granted returns to train by Randy Shannon.

Andreu_swaseyFor all of us that like to pretend we know what we're talking about when we jump onto a blog or an internet message board, I learned a lot about Swasey and his program. One, he's a genuinely good person. Two, there probably isn't a strength and conditioning coach in the country who comes better recommended.

When I asked Swasey if he might be able to set me up with phone interviews with some of his former players and other Pro Bowlers whom he trains during the offseason, I was thrown the gauntlet. And many of them were more than happy to talk about their mentor. Jonathan Vilma and Sinorice Moss responded to me within hours of my initial text message. Andre Johnson, Jon Beason and Reggie Wayne did too. They all love Swasey, respect him like he was a father and firmly believe he's as big a reason as any they are in the league.

While I understand the frustrations of fans who have lost their patience with this program, they need to realize -- as I did -- Swasey is probably not at fault for the 19-19 record over the past three years. In fact, he's probably the guy fans  should be happy isn't gone. Swasey in all honesty could care less about proving it to you. He didn't want to do the interview or even be part of the story. When I asked him if he had heard the criticism from fans, he simply said: "If I didn't have confidence in the job I was doing and knew I wasn't helping these guys, I wouldn't be doing it anymore. But I know I am." And he is.

Alltime_leadersThere were a lot of facts and figures that never got included with my online story tonight, numbers and statistics Swasey pulled out of his file cabinet for me. They weren't fudged, either. They all still were in the same pen color they were written when he first jotted them down. No scratches. No corrections. Just the numbers. Here's a close look at some of the charts I compiled.

> For all the talk we've heard about the Canes being weaker than the teams of the past, here are some team strength averages Swasey dusted off for me. When Miami won the national title in 2001, the Canes were squating an average of 411 pounds, power clean lifting 270 pounds and benching 320. Surprisingly, not that far off the 2008 team.

Year       Squat      Power     Bench          Record
2008        410         272          309              7-6
2007        422         268          291              5-7
2006        476         293          313              7-6
2005        398         267          292              9-3
2004        395         269          332              9-3

> In terms of individual improvement, Swasey and I spent about an hour researching the 2006 recruits to get a sampling of how players have improved from the day they arrived at UM until the team's last testing in the summer. While everyone may not be putting up amazing numbers, you can see clearly improvement in their physical performance.

Athlete          Yr.  Ht   Wt    Sqt  Pow  Bch    40    Vrt.   Shuttle
Matt Bosher   '06   6-0  185   315   242   275   4.80   30       NA    
Kicker            '08   6-0  200   450   301   315   4.70   33.5    4.35   
Dedrick Epps  '06   6-4  238   375   220   280   4.75   33       4.40   
Tight end       '08   6-4  252   480   318   335   4.62   38       4.35   
Joel Figueroa '06   6-5  345   455   200   350   5.4     28       5.17   
Guard            '08   6-5  336   520   308   425   5.1     32       5.03   
Chavez Grant '06  5-10 169   345   200   205   4.78   32       4.41   
Cornerback    '08   5-11 182  390   242   255   4.65   36.5    4.12   
Ryan Hill        '06   6-0  185   365   264   265   4.53   33       4.28   
Safety            '08   6-0  203   425   286   295   4.43   34.5    4.06   
Jav. James     '06  6-0  200   500   220   260   4.56   35       4.3   
Running back  '08  6-0  217   545   318   325   4.51   36.5    4.31   
C. McCarthy   '06   6-1  214   350   242   245   4.65   33       4.18   
Linebacker     '08   6-3  236  415    301   335   4.58   38       4.38   
Sam Shields    '06 5-11  166  345   200   235   4.35   35       4.28   
Receiver        '08  6-0   192  400   264   295   4.28   39       4.12   
S. Wesley       '06  6-2  237  425   242   295   4.96   31.5    4.67   
Defensive end '08  6-3  260  465   301   355   4.92   31.5     4.5   

> The final tidbit of statistical information I gathered included individual players' 2008 testing 2008_leadersresults and the Hurricanes' all-time records for work in the weight room and in speed and conditioning drills. I figured this might be a good way to compare the current Canes versus the greats. I broke it down by positions. All I'm going to tell you is expect to be shocked by who some of the Canes' all-time best by position are and who is not on the list.

FYI, if there are some guys (like Jason Fox) who were injured during testing they didn't participate. That is why you might not find a couple of guys. The other reason you won't is because they weren't very good.

> Bench:
Damien Berry 315, Randy Phillips 315, Javarris James 315, Lovon Ponder 315, Khalil Jones 315, Graig Cooper 310, Tervaris Johnson 305, Anthony Reddick 295, Carlos Armour 295.
Record book: QB: Ryan Collins, '95 (405). RB: Derrick Harris, '95 (455). WR: Randall Hill, '90 (355). CB: Leonard Myers, '99 (375). S: Andrew Moser, '00 (350)

> Squat:
Javarris James 535, Derron Thomas 500, Shawnbrey McNeal 455, Damien Berry 425, Graig Cooper 425, Khalil Jones 420, Jared Campbell 415, Carlos Armour 415.
Record book: QB: Vinny Testaverde, '85 (500). RB: Derrick Harris, '95 (655). WR: Jeff Popvitch, '97 (500). CB: Antrel Rolle, '04 (445). S: Randy Phillips, '07 (500)

> Power clean: Javarris James 318, Khalil Jones 318, Randy Phillips 294, Ryan Hill 286, Leonard Hankerson 286, Lovon Ponder 286, Joseph Nicholas 274, Derron Thomas 274, Carlos Armour 274
Record book: QB: Kirby Freeman, '07 (264). RB: Willis McGahee, '02 (360). WR: Andre Johnson, '02 (320). CB: Antrel Rolle, '04 (313). S: Sean Taylor, '03 (313).

> 40-yard dash: Sam Shields 4.28, DeMarcus Van Dyke 4.30, Ryan Hill 4.43, Kayne Farquharson 4.50
Randy Phillips 4.50, Javarris James 4.51, Graig Cooper 4.51, Leonard Hankerson 4.51.
Record book: QB: Kenny Kelly, '99 (4.43). RB: Willis McGahee, '02 (4.32). WR: Sam Shields, '07 (4.26). CB: Marcus Maxey, '02 (4.25). S: Darryl Williams, '90 (4.34).

> 20-yard shuttle: Sam Shields 4.12, DeMarcus Van Dyke 4.17, Ryan Hill 4.19, Leonard Hankerson 4.21, Lee Chambers 4.23, Shawnbrey McNeal 4.25, J.J. Davis 4.25, Jared Campbell 4.30.
Record book: QB: Kirby Freeman, '07 (4.08). RB: James Jackson, '00 (4.00). WR: Roscoe Parrish, '03 (3.85). CB: Phillip Buchanon, '00 (3.88). S: A. Moser, '00 (3.85).

> Vertical leap: Carlos Armour 41½, Sam Shields 39, Randy Phillips 39, Lee Chambers 38½, Bruce Johnson 38, Graig Cooper 37½, Tervaris Johnson 37½, Damien Berry 36½, Khalil Jones 36½, Kayne Farquharson 36½.
Record book: QB: Kenny Kelly, '99 (35). RB: Willis McGahee, '02 (41½). WR: Santana Moss, '99 (42)
CB: Glenn Sharpe, '03 (41½).  S: Randy Phillips, '06 (40)

> Bench:
Spencer Adkins 405, Chris Zellner 390, Richard Gordon 360, Darryl Sharpton 350, Eric Houston 345, Dedrick Epps 325, Patrick Hill 325, Matt Bosher 315.
Record book: LB: George Mira, '87 (455). TE: Charles Henry, '87 (400). K-P: Matt Bosher, '07 (315)

> Squat: Spencer Adkins 545, Darryl Sharpton 535, Chris Zellner 500, Richard Gordon 500, Dedrick Epps 470, Eric Houston 455, Matt Bosher 450, Arthur Brown 445.
Record book: LB: Victor Morris, '85 (600). TE: Dajleon Farr, '07 (555). K-P: Matt Bosher, '07 (450)

> Power clean: Spencer Adkins 330, Chris Zellner 330, Glenn Cook 310, Darryl Sharpton 310, Dedrick Epps 310, Richard Gordon 310, Matt Bosher 301, Eric Houston 286.
Record book: LB: D.J. Williams, '02 (360), TE: Greg Olsen, '06 (362), K-P: Matt Bosher, '07 (301)

> 40-yard dash: Richard Gordon 4.53, Colin McCarthy 4.58, Dedrick Epps 4.62, Chris Zellner 4.66
Daniel Adderley 4.71, Arthur Brown 4.75, Sean Spence 4.76, Kylan Robinson 4.82, Alex Uribe 4.82.
Record book: LB: Jerrell Weaver, '02 (4.35). TE: Ronald Williams, '98 (4.45). K-P: Brian Monroe, '05 (4.62)

> 20-yard shuttle: Sean Spence 4.24, Darryl Sharpton 4.25, Daniel Adderley 4.25, Glenn Cook 4.26
Eric Houston 4.31, Chris Zellner 4.31, Dedrick Epps 4.35, Kylan Robinson 4.35.
Record book: LB: Chris Campbell, '00 (3.90). TE: Kellen Winslow, '02 (4.06). K-P: Brian Monroe, '05 (3.92)

> Vertical leap: Dedrick Epps 38, Colin McCarthy 38, Spencer Adkins 37, Daniel Adderley 36½, Sean Spence 36, Eric Houston 36, Richard Gordon 35, Romeo Davis 35.
Record book: LB: Jerrell Weaver, '02 (42). TE: Dedrick Epps, '07 (37). K-P: Brian Monroe, '05 (36)

> Bench:
Joel Figueroa 425, Joe Joseph 405, Harland Gunn 405, Dedrick Epps 390, Luqman Abdullah 385, Matt Pipho 385, Allen Bailey 380, A.J. Trump 375.
Record book: OT: Vernon Carey, '03 (480), G-C: Carlos Callejas, '97 (500), DT: Dan Sileo, '86 (535), DE: Kevin Fagen, '85 (560).

> Squat: Harland Gunn 575, Allen Bailey 550, Joel Figueroa 520, Tyrone Byrd 510, Eric Moncur 500
Marcus Forston 475, Joe Joseph 465, Ian Symonette 450.
Record book: OT: K. Blaise, '99 (620), G-C: Andrew Bain, '06 (650), DT: Jim Burt, '80 (680), DE: Denny Fortney, '97 (555).

> Power clean: Allen Bailey 375, Reggie Youngblood 340, Harland Gunn 330, Joe Joseph 318
Matt Pipho 318, Jason Fox 310, Joel Figueroa 310, Steven Wesley 296.
Record book: OT: Eric Winston, '06 (360), G-C: Ty Wise, '99 (360), DT: M. Lawson, '98 (320), DE: Allen Bailey, '08 (375)

> 40-yard dash: Allen Bailey 4.83, Courtney Harris 4.87, Xavier Shannon 4.99, Orlando Franklin 5.03
Marcus Forston 5.03, Joel Figueroa 5.11, Tyrone Byrd 5.18, Jason Fox 5.28.
Record book: OT: Eric Winston, '03 (4.78), G-C: D. Handy, '89 (4.76), DT: M. Lawson, '98 (4.71), DE: K. Harris, '88 (4.46).

> 20-yard shuttle: Allen Bailey 4.50, Courtney Harris 4.50, Marcus Forston 4.57, Antonio Dixon 4.65
Jason Fox 4.68, Chris Rutledge 4.84, Tyrone Byrd 4.87, Joel Figueroa 4.87.
Record book: OT: Eric Winston, '03 (4.33). G-C: Chris Myers, '03 (4.25). DT: M. Lawson '96, (4.34)
DE: Kenny Holmes, '96 (4.25).

> Vertical leap: Allen Bailey 38½, Adewale Ojomo 34, Jason Fox 33, Orlando Franklin 32½, Joel Figueroa 32, Matt Pipho 32, Marcus Forston 31½, Chris Rutledge 31.
Record book: OT: Tyrone Byrd, '06 (34½). G-C: Orlando Franklin, '08 (32½). DT: B. Stinson, '00 (33½). DE: Allen Bailey, '08 (38½).


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Coker players are also SHANNON players. He was here during that time and recruited some of these guys. Coker screwed things up, but he wasn't alone.

In the GT game the LBs did not play assignment football at all. In particular, I remember number 44 not being in his gap on handoffs to the FB. That FB sure did have a lot of yards. Not to say we did all that great when they pitched it outside either.

Coker decides who they go after.

Manny, you give the best info of any reporter in South Florida. Having said that, Andrew Moser is Aaron Moser and Jeff Popvitch is Jeff Popovitch.

Long time reader, never posted before... Just wanted to thank you for this, probably the most interesting miami blog I've seen in awhile, helps to dispel a lot of myths.

Wow Manny, I'm surprised to see Vinny T. still holds the skill position squat record. I mean that's remarkable because you'd think that RB would hold that sort of record.

oaktree: thank U, ppl don't think think the HC has the final say on who he wants? Come on man if you want to say that then tell me how as a HC randy players are light yrs better than what freshman coker brought us. can anyone answer that? please compare the two HC on how their recruiting is diffrent from one another with the freshman class.When these so called canes fans find a coach to bash and ppl put info out to defend, they just find more excuses. these fakes need to shut up yall are not the ones behind closed doors, on the field, and not seeing the diffrence thats being made. yall just look at if we don't have a championship after we went to a computer bowl we need to overhaul everybody in 1 yr. man ppl are biggots

DC Cane:Good point about 18 year olds getting pushed around by 18 year olds!

Word: those incoming TEs are really OLs and Harper is unlikely to join this class b/c of grades/test scores, etc. You should fix your list.

I hope we really finish this recruiting phase hard, finish no lower than 5!

Manny that article about Swasey is one of the best pieces you have done. Nice work!

In the end, the players have to want it. Swasey is the best, always has been!! But our players have been given all they need to succeed and they are the ones that have to have the mental toughness that Ed Reed had and just refuse to lose. We will get there.

And fans who give Swasey criticism just flat out do not know a darn thing what they are talking about, all they see are L's and are Monday morning QB's and just start throwing blame around b/c a blog allows them to. You do not hear critism about the things that are correct at the U, one being Swasey, from the people that have a clue. Good job again Manny!

John Gruden for OC? Where do you come with that nonsense? The man is a Super Bowl winning HEAD COACH and you think he'd even entertain the thought of being an ASSISTANT to Randy Shannon in COLLEGE FOOTBALL?



Steve Logan will NOT return to BC!

InsidetheU, I hate to tell U this but Shula took himself "off the table" for ANY job's this offseason.

And Prince, too many others with great career stats interested with better cred, like Browning, were in the mix before Prince's name surfaced.

Not saying he's not the guy, he knows how to produce great running games. And as an O-Line coach he can coach a group in need of help. But I don't think so.

Mitch Browning
Steve Logan
Danny Langsdorf
David Lee
Mark Whipple, just to name a few.

Most of these guys have a strong connection to Jimmy Johnson. And that will be important. With JJ acting as the GM for Shannon, you will see the quality continue.

And, don't come back with "what about Nix and the 1st DC."

These were hole fillers, with no time to search - just fill the hole and search for quality during the season.

Real canes - remember the Coker firing time table sucked.

So, with Shula taking himself off the table (unless something changed) and Prince just being fired as a HC, I think the best shot on your list is Browning.

And I couldn't find anything at insidetheu.com, regarding the OC at the U.




Posted by: INSIDETHEU.COM | January 17, 2009 at 09:27 AM

This story is pure B.S.

The bench is pathetic, Swasey does not believe in advanced training,

GATECH Head Coach Johnson said; Miami is one of the most talented team we played all year but one of the weakest team we face!!!!

Lets talk about the drop off of talent Manny, the lack of bench numbers of last years> Calais could'nt even bench 225 20 times in the NFL pre camp. lets talk about players like Glen Cook looking like a Db rather than a LB. lets talk about teams this year and last year destroying us in the trenches! BS. Lets talk about injuries even though thats part of the game, but got dang we are hurt alot.

Besides the players he had were mostly the last strength and condition coach who help build them and now is @ LSU. You all know who that is.... and you can tell the difference.

Gruden won't accept a college offensive coordinator position! He will cost way too much money to bring on board. I think it will probably be Ron Prince. In the end the candidate will be well qualified.
Great article Manny on Swasey. Miami is definately headed in the right direction. Go Canes!!!!

Yes Manny, Swasey is very respected, just look at the NFL Canes that return in the off season. Along with some of their fellow NFLers that come with them.

My opinion - we are building the strength, we are building the talent and the experienced depth we've lacked for the last 4 yrs - what we need to work on is our HEART!

WE need to build our HEART!

I think Ron Prince would be an excellent choice for OC! He would also help with recruiting. He definately understands the pro style offense. He could be a perfect fit!! anybody else agree?

Seriously, what beat writer digs this deep for the raw numbers for his readership than Manny? I need to remind you again, since it's a New Year that you are a Hurricane fans' dream beat writer and I want to thank you for all the hard work you put in for us fans to get our fix.

Yes Manny, Swasey is very respected and his work will show results. Moffit has had great timing, careerwise, but I don't see our NFLers going to Baton Rouge in the off season. If he was so great they would. No, they ALL come here to workout with Swasey.

As Jimmy Johnson said, "it's funny how depth and talent has a way of making great coaches." That includes strength and conditioning coaches.

All we need - is to continue to add talent, depth, experience and most importantly - the main ingredient I see missing . . . HEART!

since when are o linemen not fat?

The stupidity of our fans is unbelievable. You don't know what the Hurricanes do or do not do in the weight room. You don't know how they train or how often they lift or what the eat. You have no idea what goes on, so shut the f*ck up already. Always grasping at anything, trying to place blame on someone or something. It's ridiculous. You idiot fans know NOTHING, so shut the f*ck up.

321canes-I would love to know where you got that quote from. Personally, I think it came out of your hind quarters.

321canes-I would love to know where you got that quote from. Personally, I think it came out of your hind quarters.

Posted by: oaktree | January 17, 2009 at 01:26 PM

You are 100% correct. What a complete @sshole.

Thank you, Manny. I have been hoping for a few years now you or Susan would do an in-depth article on Swasey.

It's good to see the facts. The fans already know about the drop in talent level and leadership on the field affecting the program.

I just think many of them didn't understand how big an impact that has really been especially in the area of leadership.

Keep up the great work.

Manny I love these type of articles, For al the haters you hear all pro's swearing by Swasey so what can you really say about that. i do not care if our numbers are the worst in the country as long as we win the NC. so when the haters want to mention all the other schools remember the 01 team that was soo dominant but our strength numbers are not much different now. People have to remember it is about having players not weight lifters. Two guys can both bench 300 and when they line up across each other one blows the other up, it is about knowing how to play the game.


I am much more convinced that Swasey is helping rather than hindering. The numbers in the article are too spotty to make a true judgment, but the testimony of all the NFL guys including some guys who aren't former Canes I find the most compelling endorsement. The power clean numbers look the most solid. Squat looks good. Bench averages still look less than average to me, but I'd like to know what the average weight of the players is. I imagine its something around 220-225. A really good bench should be 1.5 times ones body weight or better as a rule of thumb. That would put the bench average at between 330-350.

There is also a good point about the youth of the Canes. Strength is definitey an attribute that comes with training as well as age. It isn't fair to compare the strength of an 18 year old with 22 year old. Their bodies aren't fully developed and they haven't had as many years in the gym.

All told, though, I am now glad that we have Swasey and consider myself corrected that he is not the reason the Canes seem to get overpowered by other teams. Maybe it has to do with a misplaced belief that our team speed will trump skill and power, which it will not.

Three more items:

1. Manny, Thank you for this awesome piece of REAL, SUBSTANTIVE journalism. I'd say show this to Linda Robertson if I weren't worried that you'd lose 5 IQ points just by breathing the same air as her.

2. Allen Bailey is a straight BEAST!

3. Arthur Brown and Spence need to work on those 40 times. 4.75, 4.76? I ran faster than in my late 20's weighing close to their weight (205), so I know its doable. In fact, if they are the head of the class, all of the LBs really need to work on their speed (except McCarthy).

Manny, unlike a few others, I appreciate the work to get these numbers. The only missing information, % of Body Fat, this would be a clear indication of these kids diets and nutritional in-take.

Anyway, question for the group, who is Miami hosting this weekend in recruiting? Curious to know what other players we may be able to add before NSD.

Finally, good luck Frank and the boys, Carolina is going to be on their heels tonight (no pun intended), looking to prove their two loses are going to be their only two loses. Win this one and I think this team jumps to 17, 18 in the polls.

What I wouldn't give to train with these guys if I ever moved back to Miami...

Jersey Cane: You can keep up on visitsat Scout Recruiting.


tranquilizar - U the man! Thanks.


So let me get this straight for all of you haters who think that Shannon handled the Marve situation wrong. Shannon has allowed players who transfered OUT of the program to train with Swassey ? Gee I guess that is another heartless act by Shannon. Care to argue haters ?

The numbers do lie and Rob has it right. We were pushed around against NC State and especially Tech. Couldn't get off tackles and showed no speed in catching Dwyer or the NC State QB.

The numbers don't like, our strength training is good...but our players were young, lacked talent, had inconsistent technique, and were short on experience! It is pretty easy to get pushed around given those factors, especially when you have no depth and defenders are not getting any spells. That is why we got beat, not b/c of Swasey or b/c the numbers lie.

LACANE, glad you are coming around on Swasey. That being said, I agree with you on the room for improvement! We have to see some next year...

Wow, tranquilizar...thanks! The 23rd is a huge day then.

Awesome blog Manny

If Sam Shields is truly the fastest player to ever put on a Hurricane football uniform, then if I were coach - I would try him at kick-off return, punt return, utilize him in a double reverse play, and even line up ocassionally at running back position. Finally, I would spend long periods of practice time trying to develope him into a long-ball receiver threat. Seems like a tremendous waste of inherent speed not to cultivate the gift. He has 1 last year to go. Playing special teams on the punt coverage teams seems like a underutilization of this rare ability

Actually correction, Marcus Maxey was faster in 2002 than Sam Shields but my point still stands. Not too many guys running 40 yard dash under 4.3 like these guys

Great piece Manny. I also agree that Swasey is NOT the problem. I think there are other problems starting at the top of the program, but I think if you asked all the former Canes in the NFL what the biggest problem for the program is, probably at least 90% would tell you it is a lack of leadership among the players, just as some of them were quoted as saying in your article. Let's hope that is coming back.

All of that said, you did do the piece, Swasey and your readers a disservice by not comparing Miami's numbers to those of some other major programs. This is a question that people want to know and seems to be something that would come to the top of anyone's mind almost immediately when investigating the success of Miami's weight and conditioning program. That leaves only four possible reasons that I can come up with for why it was not answered in your article.
1-You are lazy and didn't feel like doing the research. I don't buy that, Manny. You're probably the hardest working reporter at the Herald.
2-The information is too hard to obtain. Not a chance I buy that.
3-The Herald had you on a dealine and some moron editor told you to print what you had without telling the whole story. Maybe, but not good if that's the case.
4-You wrote the article with an agenda and printing those numbers would have appeared to dispute your hypothesis that Swasey is still doing a good job.

If it's 4, that is so wrong on so many levels. Say it ain't so, Manny. So, which is it, or was there some other reason. In my opinion, it's clear that Swasey knows what he's doing and didn't just forget it overnight. But as they say, while you can bring a horse to water, you can't make him drink. Whatever the numbers say, the readers are interested to hear them and after all, isn't it your job to present the info that the reader wants to hear, regardless of your personal bias?

Hope this doesn't come off as too accusatory, Manny. I really appreciate what you do, and you do a great job at it. But I know there are several readers that would like to know. So, what was it?

Read what former Cane and current Dolphin Vernon Carey said about Swasey:


If you think strength coaches are readily giving out info. like this to reporters they don't have relationships with, then you probably think Gruden is gonna be or OC. Some of y'all are just delirious!

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Benjamin Disraeli (British politician, 1804 - 1881)

Just checked UNC and GT S&C coaches out. More to follow...

You guys are F-ing idiots. We live in the internet age...if the other major programs are so freely disseminating their S&C numbers, go get them your damn self. Manny covers UM, not 'SC, UF, or whoever else you've mentioned.

Manny - if you didn't post another article for a month, I wouldn't blame you. I mean damn...do you guys want Manny to get a hold of the president's daily security briefing too? Or how about we settle for Manny getting a hold of the playbook and distributing it via this blog?

Hell, this is probably why RS doesn't like doing interviews and gives vague answers when he does. Some of you people need to "check" yourself...into an institution that is.

One of the best pieces of journalism you've done in the past 3 years...good work.

Manny, would you mind researching these numbers with other major programs around the country? I have a hard time seeing people from '87 still holding records over active players on this team in this year 2009, with supplements and everything we know about PROPER nutrition ( not McDonalds across from campus guys)

I would like to see top numbers from : Georgia, Florida, Texas, OU, USC even UNC

Lets see how we stack up with those schools, if we are comparable than lets put this to rest.

And any word on a nutritionist? I am not the only person to see these guys piggin out at fast food 24/7? how are you supposed to be a world class athlete eating that crap.

It may not be swaseys fault at all, its just a matter of will power.

Manny or anyone know whats up with Antonio Harper?? is he still on board? if I am not mistaken, he is listed on our list on ESPN.COM(we have been moved up to #7 with their latest class rankings), but I think I only noticed 18 on rivals for total committs and I dont think his name was on their. He had a great prep yr at hargrave and was a top 20 overall on rivals rankings. is he still coming?

Manny, also, with it being what 2-3 weeks before signing day, if you have inside info from some articles off of rivals or scouts, MANY OF US WOULD LOVE TO READ----- with the economy, I cancelled my monthly rivals and scouts subs unfortunately. I saw someone post on here awhile ago about you giving new info, but many of us would like to see that info. or just a summary of some of the articles, especailly if its in regards to a recuit(if we are a finalist), the OC, or whos visiting the final 2 weekends before signing day. I am sure alot of the guys here would like some info as well. Either way, Gents, espn.com click college football, then click recruiting. most of their info doesnt cost anything, and they are the guys who rank the players on espn and actually chose the under armour rosters. AND, for the scout/rivals lovers, THEY HAD RAY RAY Ranked 18th over all regardless of position, and rivals didnt have him in the top 100. WELL, ray ray is now #13 overall regardless of position on rivals. He also was bumped to a 5 star recruit. SO, if bryce sticks, we have 2 of the top 13 overall on rivals. and, randle (#2) is still in it. Any new info would be great. But, as I mentioned above, we are #7 on ESPN's latest class rankings, and we have 8 or so slots left, so we can shoot up the charts still, and #10 on Rivals with I believe Harper missing, so if you know any info, please let us know. If you guys are wondering why we are a bit lower on scout, even though we r top 10 on espn and rivals, I BELIEVE(dont quote me) they dont count prep school players in their points, and we have 3 (3 top guys)with washington, harper, and jermain johnson.

The numbers do lie and Rob has it right. We were pushed around against NC State and especially Tech. Couldn't get off tackles and showed no speed in catching Dwyer or the NC State QB.

Posted by: ponce aka 86 is a loser | January 17, 2009 at 04:26 PM

In defense of the Canes, the mighty gators lost 4 games last yr and their championship year of 06 was not like this yr. they won what 4-5 games in the last second in 06, easily could have led to a 4-5 loss season, and MR meyers 1st UF team, although loaded, lost 3 games. So, its funny how a few bounces or votes on the polls make someone look great.
What no one talks about at all, is with freshman and a super young team, other than the Georgia Tech game, we had a chance to win in the 4th qtr of every game, including only down by 6 against the gators 9-3 starting the 4th qtr.
NC Loss, we were up 24-14 in 4th
FSU LOSS---lost by 2, sheilds blew the 1st/goal
GT LOSS--Only blowout
NC STATE lOSS--close all the way. lost by 10 with their late TD
CAL LOSS--Tie game with ball with 3 min left, jacory fumbled

SO, if you look at randys 1st yr with none of his players, we were blown out in alot of games.

With 2 qbs who never took snaps, with wr's that were in high school last yr, and youth everywhere, U see the results I posted, we had a chance to literally be 12-1. Every game but GT. THAT IS NOT AN OUT OF WHACK STATEMENT.

HAd that out of bounds pass tebow got credited for at the start of the 4th on 3rd and 10 been called out of bounds, we probably get the ball back in the 4th qtr only down 9-3, crowd still out of the game, and you never know.

The North carolina loss, even with marves pass almost caught by KAyne F at the end of the game, we were up 10 in the 4th qtr,

FSU, sam shields being on the field blew a 1st and goal at the 3 yard line that would have put us ahead

Ga Tech---- we F__K_d up, but, had we been 8-2,9-1,or 10-0 going into that game, maybe things would be different, but , we got blown away, only game we were not in it in 4th

NC STATE_-we caught one of the hottest teams in the country, that was their 5th straight win, and, they needed it for a bowl game. BUT, even with the turnovers, we were down 3 I believe in the 4th and lost by 10.

CAL--------If JH doesnt fumble, he might drive us down and win.

My entire(long post,sorry) point is when you have sophomores and jr's doing this, THOSE CLOSE GAMES BECOME WINS(see UF), Thats how close we are. Add the top Rb in the nation(pray for bryce), the top DB class overall quoted by Tom Luginbill and that was before Ray Ray), and the depth that is being added, PLUS, all the 4 and 5 star guys that redshirted last yr, We might be back sooner than expected.

OU loses 4 lineman, and the game is at home. That can put us back on the MAP--------PERIOD---- Beat bradford and OU , and we jump back up the rankings---------------ANYWAY, we were that close to having a great yr, and Randy bashers, he deserves alot of credit for the turnaround in 1 yr. THE U IS ON THR WAY

If you guys thing the old #s don't come with steriods your are morons! It's not swasey's fault #'s are down, get a grip.

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