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Coaching comparison: How Shannon stacks up

Miami Hurricanes fans are tired of mediocrity. They're tired of losing big games. And some (I'd say a majority) are ready and hopeful Hurricanes coach Randy Shannon will be handed a pink slip after this season.

Shannon They've seen Shannon's record against ranked opponents (4-9), seen that he has yet to win a bowl game and are taking the 2010 season as a step backward instead of a step forward. The Hurricanes (7-4, 5-3 ACC) will wrap up their season Saturday against South Florida at Sun Life Stadium. Win, and the Hurricanes would likely end up at either the Champs Sports Bowl in Orlando or the Sun Bowl in El Paso, Texas against a Pac-10 team or a rebuilding Notre Dame program.

Shannon could very easily win both of his final two games this season and finish 9-4 -- the same record as last season. Is that good enough to keep his job? Only UM President Donna Shalala really knows. But before you rush to judgement or an opinion, take a deeper look at some numbers I researched this morning.

For starters, 24 coaching changes were made at FBS schools before the 2007 season. Did you know that among the 16 coaches still at those schools Shannon ranks fifth overall in win percentage? Did you know among those 24 schools, UM is still in the top third of winning percentage (eighth overall)?

School                   Coach                 Total  (pct.)
Alabama                Nick Saban           37-10 (.787)
x-Cincinnati           Brian Kelly           37-13 (.740)
Tulsa                     Todd Graham       34-17 (.667)
x-Boston College     J. Jagodzinski     34-18 (.653)
Air Force                Troy Calhoun       33-18 (.647)
Michigan St.           Mark Dantonio      32-18 (.640)
x-Central Mich.      Butch Jones          31-21 (.596)
Miami                   Randy Shannon    28-21 (.571)
Stanford                Jim Harbaugh       27-21 (.563)
North Carolina       Butch Davis           26-23 (.531)
N.C. State             Tom O'Brien          24-24 (.500)
Arizona State         Dennis Erickson     23-24 (.489)
x-La. Tech            Derek Dooley         21-26 (.447)
x-Louisville            S. Kragthorpe       20-27 (.425)
Indiana                 Bill Lynch              18-30 (.375)
Rice                      David Bailiff         18-30 (.375)
x-Army                 Stan Brock             17-30 (.361)
x-Iowa State         Gene Chizik           17-32 (.346)
Idaho                    Robb Akey             16-32 (.333)
x-Minnesota           Tim Brewster        16-33 (.327)
UAB                      Neil Callaway         15-32 (.319)
FIU                       Mario Cristobal       14-32 (.304)
Tulane                  Bob Toledo             13-34 (.277)
North Texas          Todd Dodge             8-39 (.170)
NOTE: x-School made coaching change

> If you don't care where Shannon ranks among his current peers who took over at the same time, here are a few interesting facts...

- Virginia Tech coach Frank Beamer went 17-26-1 n his first four years as a coach (1987-90). He didn't go to a bowl game or win one until his seventh year.

> Here is how Shannon compares to the other two ACC coaching hires made in 2007: 
- Randy Shannon at UM 28-21 overall, 4-9 vs. ranked opponents (4.75 strength of schedule)
- Butch Davis at UNC 26-23 overall, 5-7 vs. ranked opponents (4.16 strength of schedule)
- Tom O'Brien at N.C. State 24-24 overall, 5-4 vs. ranked opponents (3.39 strength of schedule)

> The most common measuring stick used by fans is comparing Shannon to previous UM coaches. For starters, did you know each of the three previous coaches -- Dennis Erickson, Butch Davis and Larry Coker -- each spent six seasons at UM?

> Most fans compare Shannon's situation to that of Davis, who basically came in under NCAA sanctions and had to rebuild. Here is a look at Davis' first four years at UM compared to Shannon's...

Butch Davis
1995 -- 8-3 overall, 6-1 vs. Big East (T-1st), 1-1 vs. ranked opponents  *Bowl ineligble
1996 -- 9-3 overall, 6-1 vs. Big East (T-1st), 2-2 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl win
1997 -- 5-6 overall, 3-5 vs. Big East (5th), 0-4 vs. ranked opponents, *Didn't qualify for bowl
1998 -- 9-3 overall, 5-2 vs. Big East (2nd), 2-2 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl win
> 31-15 overall, 20-9 vs. Big East, 5-9 vs. ranked opponents, 2 bowl wins, Faced 8 Big East ranked teams

Randy Shannon
2007 -- 5-7 overall, 2-6 vs. ACC (4th), 1-3 vs. ranked opponents, *Didn't qualify for bowl
2008 -- 7-6 overall, 4-4 vs. ACC (3rd), 0-1 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl loss
2009 -- 9-4 overall, 5-3 vs. ACC (3rd), 3-2 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl loss
2010 -- 7-4 overall, 5-3 vs. ACC (2nd), 0-3 vs. ranked opponents, *TBD
> 28-21 overall, 16-16 vs. ACC, 4-9 vs. ranked opponents, 0 bowl wins, Faced 7 ACC ranked teams

> Larry Coker and his 53-9 record at UM often get thrown into the mix when talking about Shannon. But what was Coker's record once Butch Davis' recruits were all nearly gone starting in 2004?

Larry Coker's last 3 seasons
2004 -- 9-3 overall, 5-3 in ACC (3rd), 4-1 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl win
2005 -- 9-3 overall, 6-2 in ACC (2nd), 2-2 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl loss
2006 -- 7-6 overall, 3-5 in ACC (4th), 0-6 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl win
> 25-12 overall, 14-10 vs. ACC, 6-9 vs. ranked opponents

Comments

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This article proves how mediocre we are . Look at the crappy ass teams that have a better record than Miami! Air Force, Cincinnati, Tulsa, Central Michigan???

I was thinking the same thing, Joseph. Big deal - look who did better record-wise. It's not just win pct. It's about winning games that matter, demonstrating an ability to develop players and showing progress for the program. Manny makes the point himself with Coker - he had the best record because he started with the best group, but the record did nothing to save him when everyone wanted him gone. Are we supposed to wait until he has the worst winning % on the list? Yeah right. RS needs to go way before we reach that point.

Seems like we are returning to the pre-Howard Snellenberger days. Maybe it's time accept that Miami is a middle of the road program who will get beat each time they face quality teams. Clearly we don't have the coaching to compete for National Titles let alone weak ACC titles. I'd hate to see Miami play a top ranked FCS school. I never thought UM would give me the same feeling the sorry Dolphins do. It's a shame. I think Shannon has one more year of luck on his side to turn this around. His #1 class will be seniors next year. Oh yeah, bowl game against Notre Dame? Please, don't get too excited. We must first beat SFlorida. I'm not sure we'd beat a down Notre Dame team either. This team proved nothing this year except that they make the same mistakes time after time. I hate the Irish but my feelings can't keep Benjamin from dropping passes, Franklin from holding, or McCarthy from blowing assignments. I'm just a fan and maybe the bar is too high for UM these days. We can't compete with the best right now. Maybe, just maybe it's time for hurricane fans to except that we are not great anymore. Enjoy our memories of the past. Sad time for Hurricane nation. Good luck Saturday. (Why am I nervous about this Saturday's game?)

Bobby Bowden had been a head coach for 27 years and was at FSU 17 years before the Seminoles won their first NC.

Respectfully, Manny, NC and NC State should be happy. This is Miami 5 national championships. It's been 10 years. This coach can't get it done. And, if I'm not mistaken, he's got more losses than any other UM coach since 1979. This is NOT a program you let someone learn on the job. Coker let recruiting slip, and that only bought Randy 2 years. He's had 2 more with his kids and time to whip the others into shape. He hasn't. Stop making excuses for him. Stop justifying his alleged need to be here. He DOES NOT have the market cornered on academics, and this school can find another coach who can maintain or improve those academics, while at the same time WIN. And don't get me started on recruiting. His honeymoon is over, and Miami's recruiting this year stinks! If this school doesn't recognize this now, then it's flat out stupid! Not ignorant, stupid! Randy has no business being the head coach. Man, should I take it that you're now excited about senior day? Wowza, this is just incredible to see this stuff. It is time to move on, and stop the hemorrhaging with our own version of Ron Zook.

It's the Univ. Administration who is satisfied with being mediocre. Don't buy UM material anymore, stop going to games. This football program has given millions of dollars in profit over the years. Stop the cash flow and you will see them hurting. Then the Board of Trustee will tell Shalala to get with the program or leave. The bottom line is profit.

Coach Shannon is freakin awesome, man we made the right choice. So like in 7 years we should be back to normal. That's great I was worried.

Tired of mediocre journalism

Did you prepare this Manny or did you just dump in whatever the Miami Sports Department prepared for you? This the THE U not BOSTON COLLEGE. Get real! I almost rather have Coker back than this guy.

So do you think miami was a better team than fsu, virginia and va tech------- I don't, in fact i think miami looked better than osu.

Miami is a fast car--- it needs a better driver and pit crew----something has to change guys--- shalala needs to accept this fact.

The coach is the leader--- we need a better leader.

I agree with the poster above who said vote with your wallet! Don't support this team. Why should my sports dollars support Stanford East when there are much better things to do here in Miami? Donna Shalala has not realized that this Football team is the University's Cash Cow. Drive it into mediocrity and those seats and merchandise stores will be empty.

Correction to my post-- i do think miami is a better team than fsu, virtinia and va tech--- they should have won those games--- heck, 2 of them were home games.

Finally, if Shalala thinks that she can somehow turn Miami into Stanford, she better realize that she's not getting anywhere with alumni donations like Stanford's. Forsake football, and we will rue the day that FIU passed the U in both academics and athletics.

The problem with those teams ranked ahead of UM is, only one of them is a national power, Alabama, and none of them won 5 national championships in a 20 year span.
Until Shannon is held accountable for his record nothing will change. If he is ever told, win a championship or pack your bags, then you might see our highly talented players develop into champions. Until that time we just have to get used to the mediocrity and continue to support the Canes, because THEY ARE OUR HURRICANES.

Thank you for some genuine journalistic work and perspective. Three other measuring sticks: NCAA sanctions, academic performance and off-field arrests.

If you consider those as well as turning the Miami program around, Shannon's stock rises higher. Just ask the fans of Auburn and Cam Newton, or Reggie Bush and USC, or Urban Meyer and Univ of Florida (30 arrests) or NC and Butch Davis.

Academics, arrests, NCAA sanctions, are also part of the equation when measuring coaching success.

Thanks again for reporting FACTS and not more blah, blah, blah opinions.

I'm tired of all u sorry so-called canes fans coming on here and talking all that crap about how the canes used to win and all that other stuff from the past...If u cant get over the fact that the past is the past then stop talking crap about the canes..tru canes fans will be there on saturday supporting their team and not just talking bs on what needs to happen to coach RS..he's the coach now and probably wil be for a while....i bet u guys are the ones that jump on the wagon when we are winning and jump off when we lose...probably the ones that go to the game and just sit there instead of making noise when we are on d-fense...STOP IT ALREADY...no matter what happens the canes will always be #1 win or lose.....GO CANES

and Coker won a national championship but he still was a horrible coach - that fact only delayed what should have been done a year or two earlier.....this has the same feeling....lets ride this coach until the cubbard is completely bare as well so we have to totally start over and take 4-5 years to get back.

IF WE MAKE A MOVE NOW WE WON"T NEED TO REBUILD FOR YEARS.....THIS CAN BE FIXED BY NEXT YEAR! Otherwise its going to take another 4-5 year just like after Coker.

FIRE THIS MAN!.......that is all.

Never been a proponent of firing someone without knowing whom his replacement will be. So, and I'm just asking, who do you guys think should replace Shannon?

(If anyone says Richt, check yourself, he's making SEC money right now, and even in a bad season the fans haven't turned on him like they have here with Shannon. And please, no Leach either.)

Manny, how about take the teams above Miami on that list and compare strength of schedule and then see where RS falls on the list. I bet he jumps to second behind Alabama. Any of those teams playing @OSU, @Pitt, and @Clemson back to back to back?
Sorry folks, I'm still going to buy U merchandise and if I still lived in Miami I'd still be buying tickets. Do what you want, but don't expect me to live in the past with you.

I could give a rats a-- about air force, stanford, or NC state

I could give a rats a-- about ACC championships

I could give a rats a-- about Butch Davis

All I and the millions of cane fans care about is winning a national ch. Whetehr Miami is in the ACC, SEC, Independent or Big Least.

Bring us a ship Shannon, and you will go odwn in history as the first black coach to win a NC in D-1, and all else will be forgiven, and I for one will mortgage myhouse so youcan get paid.

Thats all we want. we dont want 9-4 seasons

Manny, you now better, numbers could make a case for or against. The question is what Shannon is doing with the talent he has. No other team in that list, probably with the exception of Alabama, has as much talent as we have and Shannon has not been able to use it. Your other article regarding San Shields is a clear example of whats going on. Shannon has to go now.

Please stop comparing him to other coaches thats really not what we care about right now.

I see the statistics that Manny puts up and the conclusion would be that things will get better. But in out hearts we see year in year out teams with apparent talent but no fire, no no real heart and soul, no desire to win. So you conclude that time will not fix this, as desire, and a drive to win has to be coached in. As an alumni, I have given this school lots of money, for building drives, started scholarship funds, hurricane club, etc. but I have to be honest when I get the calls or letters asking for more lately, I am so disgusted with the national TV embarassment this school gets now on many fall Saturdays, that I just end up saying no. This school's administration needs to understand that for many of it's older alumnus, those of us with money to give, we enjoy and cherish our football team, because it is an easy way for us to connect with the University, especially when you are many thousands of miles separated from Coral Gables. Boycotting games or not buying t-shirts will not hurt the school much financially, but getting legions of older alumni like me, who have money to give, so down on the school, will hurt, as my dollars will not flow as easily as they once did. GO CANES!

Shanon has to go!!!!!

Period.

We need winners, not excuses!

Personally, while I am really unhappy with the performance of Randy Shannon as coach, I am willing to grant him one final year to either win the ACC or resign gracefully. I only say this because I don't forsee a coaching change bringing about an ACC championship any sooner and because this team has been at the forefront in areas of academics and graduation (which is a welcome change for UM). Nonetheless, the sloppy play and lack of discipline on the field seem to me a sign of something wrong in the coaching.

In the business world, someone with RS's record would have been let go a LONG TIME AGO!

Mediocrity is NOT acceptable!

Finally an article with facts.....and for cane75...If you have been giving money for a long time...why stop now....you didn't stop when coker was 7-6, or when Butch was 5-7...so why stop now....

The people who eat up the notion that Shannon cleaned this program up and has finally started to graduate players need to open your eyes and stop regurgitating nonsense. Think for yourselves, people!!!!
FACT - Miami was in the top third when it came to graduation rates, EVEN DURING OUR GLORY YEARS AND WITH PLAYERS LEAVING EARLY LEFT AND RIGHT FOR THE NFL!!
FACT - Our APR has has jumped only 7 points since Shannon has taken the keys from Coker.

Research our arrest record with Butch & Coker and compare that to Randall's. You'll be surprised at how alike they look.

He gets credit for MAINTAINING our clean arrest record and our graduation rates but PLEASE don't gobble up the garbage about him turning this already clean program into crystal!

i did some research also... Shannon is the fastest coach to 21 losses in UM football HISTORY... also NOT ONE coach in UM history lost 21 games in his first 4 seasons... He is only seven losses away from being the THIRD losingest coach in UM history...

Charlotte-Cane.... I did not say I have stopped, it is just becoming harder to give, and ultimately if my feelings are like many other alumni, I am sure the net effect is less donations.

If you had the authority, which you don't, who would be you choice to replace Randyand why?

charlotte cane you are the biggest shannon apologist on this board. What are you shannon's secret lover. You are a MORON!!!! www.firecoachshannon.com

News Flash....Miami was graduating players long before RS arrived on the scene.

also... out of all the other coaches in UM history that did not lose at least 21 games in their first four years (which is all of them but Randy) Randy did it with a #1 recruiting class...

It's amazing that Manny give people the ACTUAL NUMBERS of everybody they're comparing Randy Shannon to didn't really do THAT much better (and in some cases, worse) than Randy.

People just don't like the man, plain and simple, for whatever reason. TOUGH!

I will admit, blowouts to FSU and losses to UVA are UNACCEPTABLE, but all coaches and teams have them.

BTW Manny - you stole my thunder homie...I said the same thing on Gino's show.

albert.....Not an apologist at all.....I don't like this season as well....I agree, he needs to do better...but what is the complaing going to get you....nothing....He is not going to be fired no matter what you say on this board....just look at the details from Manny article on what other first time coaches did (Frank Beamer)...but that doesn't support your hate..so you continue....and please stop with all the talent hotbed theories...FSU and UF also are in Florida and they all have bad runs....and to call me a moron...I know I know more about UM then you will ever know....so please stop with the name calling..it makes you sound real ignorant and just plain stupid that you can't have a conversation without trying to belittle someone with name calling just because they don't share your same opinion.....I can easily start calling you names as well....

Another point to add to the analysis of coaching records is this ... how many of the coaches who took over programs before the 2007 season were first-time head coaches? Not Dantonio. Not Brian Kelly.

Look where Gene Chizik is today. Ooops ... he's got the Cam Newton NCAA and FBI investigation. FBI??!!

It's important to realize Miami is not in the Big East anymore. Miami cannot afford to have sanctions or any type of scandal. Remember, Sports Illustrated suggested the University dissolve its football program. What happened after the FIU brawl? ESPN ran it continuously for weeks and demanded something be done about the thugs at the U.

As soon as Miami gets hit with a whiff of scandal ... the media and critiques will pile on. Look at the big picture.

Shannon came in with NO head coaching experience. Unlike Larry Coker, he inherited a program in decline and disarray. A player murdered! An on-field brawl. Academic issues. Today, the U is graduating over 80% of its players and if you're paying attention he's building depth. Two quarterbacks. Several running backs. A stable of receivers. A deep defensive line. A capable secondary.

Leading in tackles for loss and among the leaders in sacks. A QB who is now second all time in TDs at quarterback U. A receiver who has the all time Canes record for TD receptions in a single season. Surpassing now NFL hall-of-famer, Michael Irwin.

Shannon turned a basketball players who hadn't touched a football in four years into a capable TE. So capable, after only one season of college ball he's an NFL player with the defending world champions.

These are FACTS, not opinion,. Are the Canes perfect? No. But look closely and be objective. Realize your head coach is learning as well.
The Canes are well on their way back. Be patient. Or simply ignore the facts and keep shouting.

Nice job Manny of putting life as a coach in perspective. While it's not sexy Randy has done a steller job of helping these young men both on and off the field of battle. Randy finally has put together his team with quality and depth as evidenced by the number of young players on the field. Next year with this quality, depth and experience the expectations for this team should be very high. Can't wait and for the 41st year I will renew my season's tickets. Thank you Randy and the rest of the staff. See you at the bowl game.

Chris,

Wow, just wow.

You have your opinion and I have mine but I implore you to look into what you state as FACT.

What academic issues do you speak of? How do you possibly inject the murder of Pata into this argument?

Depth????!! Where??!! You call 2 QB's depth?? How about our defensive depth, where Randall has been making key decisions even before he became HC?!? Our LB position is in shambles, our depth on the DL is not nearly as good as you think, we have bodies but no quality.
Only QUALITY depth I see is at RB & WR, as you pointed out.

I cannot believe the ignorance of the majority of our fans. This man is ruining the very thing you love and used to call Miami Football!

OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!

Howard,

What have you seen from Shannon as a gameday coach that makes you confident that next year will be any different from these last 4?

Nice list but you fail to throw in a column comparing recruiting classes where only Alabama would probably rank ahead

Hopefully no one goes to the USF game and hopefully USF wins. Hopefully the CANES get clobered by ND in a Bowl Game. That would be 3 more nails in DONAA an RANDY'S COFFIN!

I want Randy gone just like everyone else here.But you people talk like the U is steeped in tradition and a consistent bowl participant since the football program was started. That's just not the case. From 1983 until 2001/2002 the U was a powerhouse with multiple national championships. But prior to 83, the goal of the University was to have a .500 year. during the 70's the program was a joke. In fact there was talk of the program going 1AA. Should we go back to those dark days, no. But be realistic. The U isn't the same school as it was in the dark days, but conversely it's not the same school it was in the 80's and 90's. The NCAA football landscape has changed. So don't beat you chests about the traditions at the U. Tradition is just recent history, BTW I'm George Mira's cousin so I should know a little U history.

Again, for all those calling for Shannon's head...who's going to make things "better?" We don't have the money to lure big names at better-paying schools.

Are people stupid or what. A college President is not going to be fired because of a loosing football team. That just doesn't happen. This isn't the NFL where a GM gets fired. Get real. Now RS that's a different story.

thehalftimeanalysis.blogspot.com gives a fan's perspective on all things Miami sports! Randy Shannon deserves an extra year. UM was down a touchdown to VA Tech w a Freshman QB and shannon is right to point out that players were in the right positions to make plays and dropped passes. You can't teach hands.

I'm also an alumni who's miserably tired of the mediocrity and ineptitude Shannon has brought to this fledging program; and, I'm tired of losing and fearing big games.
Miami hasn't had a high caliber coach in over a decade, and doesn't seem to want to spend the money to bring in one; but, Shalaylah and company don't want to see the handwriting on the locker room wall: Choker was maintained far beyond his time, but it took a MURDER to wrought a long overdue change; so, what's it going to take this time around?
Miami needs to recruit Spurrier or Davis or someone else PROVEN, who'll whip this program back into shape; but, to do such, it will take a three or four million dollar salary; and, the UM appears to be cheap. (Shannon, at one million, turned out to be NO bargain.)
Keep in mind that ONE BCS appearance will bring in around seventeen mill, which will certainly justify a good coach's salary; and, that will put an end to these lackluster post season "Toilet Bowl" appearances.

This is all I have been trying to say from day 1.Our fan base has helped as much or more to the decline of our program as anyone else.No we are not responsible for the bad play on the field etc, but we blow things way out of proportion here and the negativity spills out all over the place. Other teams use our fan base against us when recruiting whether its the poor attendance or the poor attitude.

Full comparison of Randy to Butch...

Similarities:
Both Coaches had to Rebuild
Both Coaches had seasons the did not meet expectations
Both Coaches had fans calling for their head

End of Similarities
- Butch had to deal with 31 lost Scholarships
- Through 47 games
Butch 32-15 (17 games over .500)
Randy 27-20 (7 games over .500)

Say we throw out Butch's first 2 years (better than anything Randy has done up to this point) and take it from the bottom in 1997 when the full loss of scholarships hit. And Compare that to the Randy bottom year starting 2007

Year 1
Butch 5-6
Randy 5-7
- Basically the Same

Year 2
Butch 9-3 (won Bowl game, finished #20 AP)
Randy 7-6 (lost Bowl game, finished unranked)
- Butch was better

Year 3
Butch 9-4 (won bowl game, finished #15 AP)(Team loaded with Sophomores & Juniors)
Randy 9-4 (lost bowl game, finished #19 AP)(Team loaded with Sophomores & Juniors)
- Basically the same

Year 4
************This is where the real separation has occurred***********
Both have teams loaded with Juniors and Senior talent...both in the same exact spot.

Butch - 11-1 (Wins Sugar Bowl finishes #2 in the country)
Randy - 6-3 (Blowout loss to FSU at home, UVA loss )

Stats that drive home the difference:
Butch 34-14 in the 48 games over the 4 year rebuild period (20 games over .500)
Randy 27-20 through 47 games so far over the 4 year rebuild period (7 games over .500)

Butch 3-0 in bowl games with 1 BCS game victory
Randy 0-2 in bowl games

20+ Point wins during that period
Butch - 20
Randy - 5

Losses to teams that finished below .500
Butch - 0 (Pitt went 6-6 in 1997)
Randy - 3 (Wll be 4 when UVA finishes below .500)

SUMMARY:
All of you guys trying to compare Butch's rebuild to Randy are way off base....

Because fans may have been UNREALISTIC 15 years ago in regards to firing Butch.....Does not mean that Randy does not warrant the CRITICISM and "Calls for his head" that he is getting today based upon his own results.

The stats show that Randy is NOWHERE close to the on-field Achievements of Butch and we all know the STELLAR off-the-field job Butch did.

So please stop using the idiot fans of 15 years ago to deflect the attention away from Randy's record.

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