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Coaching comparison: How Shannon stacks up

Miami Hurricanes fans are tired of mediocrity. They're tired of losing big games. And some (I'd say a majority) are ready and hopeful Hurricanes coach Randy Shannon will be handed a pink slip after this season.

Shannon They've seen Shannon's record against ranked opponents (4-9), seen that he has yet to win a bowl game and are taking the 2010 season as a step backward instead of a step forward. The Hurricanes (7-4, 5-3 ACC) will wrap up their season Saturday against South Florida at Sun Life Stadium. Win, and the Hurricanes would likely end up at either the Champs Sports Bowl in Orlando or the Sun Bowl in El Paso, Texas against a Pac-10 team or a rebuilding Notre Dame program.

Shannon could very easily win both of his final two games this season and finish 9-4 -- the same record as last season. Is that good enough to keep his job? Only UM President Donna Shalala really knows. But before you rush to judgement or an opinion, take a deeper look at some numbers I researched this morning.

For starters, 24 coaching changes were made at FBS schools before the 2007 season. Did you know that among the 16 coaches still at those schools Shannon ranks fifth overall in win percentage? Did you know among those 24 schools, UM is still in the top third of winning percentage (eighth overall)?

School                   Coach                 Total  (pct.)
Alabama                Nick Saban           37-10 (.787)
x-Cincinnati           Brian Kelly           37-13 (.740)
Tulsa                     Todd Graham       34-17 (.667)
x-Boston College     J. Jagodzinski     34-18 (.653)
Air Force                Troy Calhoun       33-18 (.647)
Michigan St.           Mark Dantonio      32-18 (.640)
x-Central Mich.      Butch Jones          31-21 (.596)
Miami                   Randy Shannon    28-21 (.571)
Stanford                Jim Harbaugh       27-21 (.563)
North Carolina       Butch Davis           26-23 (.531)
N.C. State             Tom O'Brien          24-24 (.500)
Arizona State         Dennis Erickson     23-24 (.489)
x-La. Tech            Derek Dooley         21-26 (.447)
x-Louisville            S. Kragthorpe       20-27 (.425)
Indiana                 Bill Lynch              18-30 (.375)
Rice                      David Bailiff         18-30 (.375)
x-Army                 Stan Brock             17-30 (.361)
x-Iowa State         Gene Chizik           17-32 (.346)
Idaho                    Robb Akey             16-32 (.333)
x-Minnesota           Tim Brewster        16-33 (.327)
UAB                      Neil Callaway         15-32 (.319)
FIU                       Mario Cristobal       14-32 (.304)
Tulane                  Bob Toledo             13-34 (.277)
North Texas          Todd Dodge             8-39 (.170)
NOTE: x-School made coaching change

> If you don't care where Shannon ranks among his current peers who took over at the same time, here are a few interesting facts...

- Virginia Tech coach Frank Beamer went 17-26-1 n his first four years as a coach (1987-90). He didn't go to a bowl game or win one until his seventh year.

> Here is how Shannon compares to the other two ACC coaching hires made in 2007: 
- Randy Shannon at UM 28-21 overall, 4-9 vs. ranked opponents (4.75 strength of schedule)
- Butch Davis at UNC 26-23 overall, 5-7 vs. ranked opponents (4.16 strength of schedule)
- Tom O'Brien at N.C. State 24-24 overall, 5-4 vs. ranked opponents (3.39 strength of schedule)

> The most common measuring stick used by fans is comparing Shannon to previous UM coaches. For starters, did you know each of the three previous coaches -- Dennis Erickson, Butch Davis and Larry Coker -- each spent six seasons at UM?

> Most fans compare Shannon's situation to that of Davis, who basically came in under NCAA sanctions and had to rebuild. Here is a look at Davis' first four years at UM compared to Shannon's...

Butch Davis
1995 -- 8-3 overall, 6-1 vs. Big East (T-1st), 1-1 vs. ranked opponents  *Bowl ineligble
1996 -- 9-3 overall, 6-1 vs. Big East (T-1st), 2-2 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl win
1997 -- 5-6 overall, 3-5 vs. Big East (5th), 0-4 vs. ranked opponents, *Didn't qualify for bowl
1998 -- 9-3 overall, 5-2 vs. Big East (2nd), 2-2 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl win
> 31-15 overall, 20-9 vs. Big East, 5-9 vs. ranked opponents, 2 bowl wins, Faced 8 Big East ranked teams

Randy Shannon
2007 -- 5-7 overall, 2-6 vs. ACC (4th), 1-3 vs. ranked opponents, *Didn't qualify for bowl
2008 -- 7-6 overall, 4-4 vs. ACC (3rd), 0-1 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl loss
2009 -- 9-4 overall, 5-3 vs. ACC (3rd), 3-2 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl loss
2010 -- 7-4 overall, 5-3 vs. ACC (2nd), 0-3 vs. ranked opponents, *TBD
> 28-21 overall, 16-16 vs. ACC, 4-9 vs. ranked opponents, 0 bowl wins, Faced 7 ACC ranked teams

> Larry Coker and his 53-9 record at UM often get thrown into the mix when talking about Shannon. But what was Coker's record once Butch Davis' recruits were all nearly gone starting in 2004?

Larry Coker's last 3 seasons
2004 -- 9-3 overall, 5-3 in ACC (3rd), 4-1 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl win
2005 -- 9-3 overall, 6-2 in ACC (2nd), 2-2 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl loss
2006 -- 7-6 overall, 3-5 in ACC (4th), 0-6 vs. ranked opponents, *Bowl win
> 25-12 overall, 14-10 vs. ACC, 6-9 vs. ranked opponents

Comments

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former football player... just because you played flag peewee football does not make you an authority on ANYTHING so get over yourself... college football has changed SO much that FOUR teams are still undefeated and will most likely finish the season undefeated... UN DE FEAT ED!!! Name me the last time four teams have finished even the regular season undefeated...

Nobody is answering the question - "What coach out there do you think is going to come to this program for a mediocre salary and deal with a fan base with unreal expectations and play in a stadium that never sells out?"

None.

Coach Shannon just got extended and isn't going anywhere. Things are different now. Academic excellence is held in as high a regard as football excellence, if one is going to falter, it's not the academics. Coach Shannon has changed the reputation of the program. I'd like us to do better to, but 80's were a long time ago. I'm not calling for the head of a coach when he hits a road bump after improving in each of his first three years on the job. That's stupid. 100+ schools don't win the national championship each year. And screaming "We're Miami, we deserve better" sounds just as dumb.

FIRE RANDY SHANNON... he is not the coach that will take us to the promise land.. I have been saying it all season long.. RANDY and his circus must go.. DO NOT GO to the games.. do not spend ur money on a program that does not care about winning...

FIRE SHANNON NOw save your money.. save the program... lets move on and start again

Stanford Jim Harbaugh 27-21 (.563)
North Carolina Butch Davis 26-23 (.531)
N.C. State Tom O'Brien 24-24 (.500)
Arizona State Dennis Erickson 23-24 (.489)
x-La. Tech Derek Dooley 21-26 (.447)
x-Louisville S. Kragthorpe 20-27 (.425)
Indiana Bill Lynch 18-30 (.375)
Rice David Bailiff 18-30 (.375)
x-Army Stan Brock 17-30 (.361)
x-Iowa State Gene Chizik 17-32 (.346)
Idaho Robb Akey 16-32 (.333)
x-Minnesota Tim Brewster 16-33 (.327)
UAB Neil Callaway 15-32 (.319)
FIU Mario Cristobal 14-32 (.304)
Tulane Bob Toledo 13-34 (.277)
North Texas Todd Dodge 8-39 (.170)

-----------------------------

look at the list. its not exactly hard to have a better win percentage than those awful programs...

ask yourself this.
if randy is let go tomorrow who would hire him?
would he even be given a job as an assistant?

he's not a quality coach.
he doesnt relate well with players.
doesnt develop them.
and in this media crazed environment that is now college football, doesnt have the star power necessary to lure recruits here.
checkout our recruiting last yr (seantrel was a gift) and this upcoming yr.
we need to make a change now.
we cant wait 2 or 3 more years when we are completely and absolutely irrelevant.

Manny's job is to generate hits for the Herald, judging from the number of responses to this he has done well. The obvious flaw in the analysis, what should each coach have done at their respective schools, is just ignored (i.e., Randy probably has a little more to work with than Robb Akey at Idaho does, and therefore Randy's standards should be higher), but other than that it's okay.

Will somebody tell Manny that 8 of Randy's victories came from beating Duke, FAMU and some other high school team !

Excerpt from earlier post:

Good job on comparing the two, but take a lesson from Manny:

"But before you rush to judgment or an opinion, take a deeper look at some numbers"

GO CANES!!!

Posted by: 360Cane


^^^^^^^^^^^^

Canes 360-

Your post is excellent, based on facts, not the haters hysteria. Unfortunately, the haters are not going to allow facts to get in the way of attacking Shannon, Whipple, Hocutt, Shalala, etc.

Again, allow me to remind the real Canes fans that a large percenatge of the inflammatory garbage posted on this site is by the gator racist, Sean Wilson who poses as Canes fans using a variety of aliases. The instant he was banned from other sites, unlike this site, the volume of garbage being posted dropped down to a small trickle. This guy is mentally ill (not said to insult, he's really insane) and spends his every awakening moment of his pathetic life posting lies and hate about the Canes.

Willow will not fire the african american coach, because there is so little of them in D1....were are all truly screwed as die hard cane fans!

Okay, people have you all looked at football from this perspective. Their are two types of sports fans in my book. Either you are a fan or spectator.
SPECTATOR: This is a person who just looks at the game and say things like, "Oh, he just didn't want to catch the ball on that play." Or, "we just lost because JC threw to many interceptions."

FAN: This is someone who knows sports terminology and lingo. They look at the strength and weakness of the opposition. If Miami runs a run play, they can tell what lineman missed a block or if a receiver missed a block. The Fan can also look at the oppositions secondary and tell what type of coverage their in.

Im a fan, I have watched weekend and week out how, in our losses, we were just out coached and not prepared for what the team is going to do to us. We can argue that we should of won games that we lost and vice versa, because it was some games we should of not won as well. Some coaches are just coordinator material and not head coaching material. Butch Davis, with Coker as the recruit and offensive coordinator, transcended college football recruiting forever. First of all, they put a tight blanket around South Florida and made it hard for teams like Florida or Florida State to get the best players their. Secondly, they designed the pipeline network and started recruiting heavenly on the west coast and got the best from California. Coker was a fine offensive coordinator and sucked as being a head coach. We should of had at least 3 championships with Coker from the recruits that Butch Davis left him. The program had problems and it went down hill since Coker took over. Shannon, like Obama and the economy now, inherited a really bad dilema. He had to clean up the program, which he did very well. The problem is that it is not carrying over onto the football field. Look at it like this, Florida has been in the top 3 recruiting class since taking over as the head coach. Are they what they are rated as, NO! They are paper champs, not on the field champs. It makes Florida and Meyer look like they are recruiting God's. Shannon has had 1 top ranked class since he has taking over. Shannon has a tragic background and childhood that needs to be honored. He overcame so much in his life to be in a position where he is today. I applaud the man and wish him well. He was a great defensive coordinator whose defenses were in the top 5 yearly (google it). With him as a defensive coordinator and a good offensive minded head coach, the U could be strong again.

MANNY- Yall deleted my previous post, but again--you got owned by Monkey! LOL He made you his b****

Posted by: monkey1371

Nice work!

Extending Shannon was a huge mistake, it obligates us to keep him.

This was supposedly done to help recruiting, but who wants to play for Shannon now?

Analyze whatever numbers you want, I just have to watch the Virginia game to understand what Randy Shannon is all about.

We'll get rid of Shannon. It might take time, but it's going to happen.

THIS IS THE U !!!!!! we are not temple or idiana fans this is not exceptable we play for championships not 7 or 8 win seasons and the weed eater bowl.... why did a player have to get coached outside of a d-1 program on how to catch a ball??? so if it wasent for mark d would we only have 4 wins this year !!!!! THINK ABOUT hank had to get outside help to be taught !!!!! what other d-1 school does this so are coach's cant teach fundamentles of the game!!!!!!!!!!!! thank U randy

I hear what you all are saying, but all im saying is be careful what you ask for. If you dont remember, the next time the Canes have infractions, it could be the death penalty for the program. Then what? Im just saying.

@ Joseph...does Air Force, Cincinnati, Tulsa, Central Michigan play Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc., etc???

Thats what Shannon is giving us now. The Death Penalty. You want to continue with this loser because you are scared. I'll take my chances with a winner any day before I take the loser route because I am scared.

We are not the other 100 plus schools. We are Miami. U dummies act like we are the only school with rabid fans. They are everywhere. U morons only want Shannon because of his race not because he is the best for our Canes football Program.
Just tell me in 4 years who has Randy Shannon ever beaten that was credible?

The whole 4 years under shannon has been nothing but potholes and bumps in the road. He is a loser that was overrated as a defensive coordinator. Remember how Louisville and Stefon Leflores passed all over us in the Orange Bowl when Shannon was Defensive coordinator. He could not stop them because he didn't know how. He had to rely on the teams overall talent to bail us out of that game. Not his coaching prowess.

Butch was fired? Thought he left for Cleveland? Also, we were just one week from having Schiano as our Head Coach.
Re: Donna
Anyone who believes Donna (ACLU) Shalala will be firing a Black Head Coach anytime in the near future, is dreaming. Alright, who is the first Stanford Progressive Jackass that is going to shout out "racist"?
Randy is a great man with integrity, he's just not our answer at Head Coach.

Randy deserves another year.

If UM makes a mistake and lets him go because of all the loudmouths, another school will snap him up fast and thank us for years. Four measly years of head coaching experience and people want his head because he didn't complete a national championship miracle in that time. Things have changed in college football a LOT in the past 10 years. I don't see how trashing it all and starting over again is best for the program. Coach Shannon has done a lot to restore the talent and deserves the chance to see it through. I hope RS is the face of UM football for many years.

Good let them start snapping him up. Let him be their problem, I am cool with that. The fact is no other program wants that loser. He would not last 4 years at another place because he doesn't know how to coach. And things have not changed that much in 10 years. The BCS was in effect when we won it in 2001, just as it is today. The only thing that has changed is then we had a good head coach and now we have a guy that wasn't that good a coordinator. He just rode Schiano's coattails.

miamicanes1 what kind of canes fan are you? How is shannon supposed to get good recruits if the fans dont give their time and money to the program? Lets not go to the games no one go to the games. f-miami. im done watching the canes play till they get a new coach. just another brilliant canes fan for everyone. they fired coker cause a player gets shot numerous arrests and a program on the way down. I think the defense needs to get a new defensive coordinator. lovett is a good coach but hes not a cordinator. what is always the best part of our defense? the lbs. who is the lbs coach? michael barrow. where is his alumni? Miami. just saying. if the defense shapes up this is a top ten team. the o'line is young. they have a plethora of young backs. and the class of 2012 can be another 2008. i feel comfortable enough in shannon's ability to lead this team to national title competition. and if the fans dont start to agree with what shannon does we will never be swagger u again. GO CANES!!!!!!!!!

What do you want us to do, agree with losing? because thats all he has done and that aint going to happen. You are alot more comfortable with losing than I am. The defense has improved other than up the middle runs that teams have gashed us for at times. WHat we need is a good head coach, not a dummy that constantly has his team unprepared, and out coached by every single opposing teams coach. I ask U one thing, what good team has randy Shannon ever beaten?

Hurricanes Points Scored, Allowed, Record after 11 games

Butch Davis
1995: 294..201 (8-3)
1996: 337..189 (8-3)
1997: 314..285 (5-6)
1998: 402..275 (8-3)
1999: 349..207 (7-4)
2000: 469..170 (10-1)

Larry Coker
2001: 475..103 (11-0)
2002: 447..173 (11-0)
2003: 317..168 (9-2)
2004: 354..197 (8-3)
2005: 322..134 (9-2)
2006: 217..167 (5-6)

Randy Shannon
2007: 233..284 (5-6)
2008: 308..252 (7-4)
2009: 349..258 (8-3)
2010: 306..212 (7-4)


Hurricanes Average Points Scored, Allowed,

Butch Davis
1995: 29...20
1996: 34...19
1997: 31...29
1998: 40...28
1999: 35...21
2000: 47...17

Larry Coker
2001: 48...10
2002: 45...17
2003: 32...17
2004: 35...20
2005: 32...13
2006: 22...17

Randy Shannon
2007: 23...28
2008: 31...25
2009: 35...26
2010: 31...21

shannon falls under that spectator category. he sees somethings wrong but doesnt know how to fix it.

how is it our only legit reciever had to get outside help from duper to reach his potential? how is it that in a year and a half at miami, shields learned absolutely nothing about the CB position. why is it that nfl scouts say we have the most talent and worst coaching in the ACC? why is it that none of our players have progressed in 3 years? (some have even regressed)

you apologists make me sick. as a miami hurricanes fan, how in the heck can you accept this garbage? why do you keep making excuses!? its astounding to me...

I really don't care for these stats. I'm pretty sure you don't keep monitoring what your neighbor is doing with his house for you to do yours. Fact is that for the past 3 years at least, we've had really top notch players and should be way ahead of where we are now. I can't help but think it's poor or inadequate coaching. But you know what, from the time they took the Orange Bowl from the U, the end was in sight. Pity!

if you can't win....you can't recruit!

championships is all that matters, to answer your question who won the acc title last year? georgia tech right? oh yeah they did and we beat them. they lost to vatech cause an inexperienced qb threw a late pick. we lost to virginia cause whipple got a chance to play. and fsu out played us. and when you look at two of harris's picks against osu they were travis benjamin's fault. im willing to say that us losing is not shannon's fault. bad plays are. when shannon took over this team he had a team on the way down. he has brought them up in the past four years. he had one setback year. but how bout we look at alabama. the year before saban went on undefeated season that sent him to the sugar bowl he lost to louisianna monroe. two years later he won a championship. shannon knows how to win. and watch they will win out the rest of their gamews and set us for a huge season next year. and for those people who dont understand why we have only seven commits its because we dont have enough scholarships to land a thirty man class like 2008. but those players will graduate next season setting shannon up for 2008 like class in 2010. just go and look at the players hes already got to commit for that class.

Andy Georgia Tech last year does not qualify as a really good team. Yes they won the ACC that year but really they were not that good of a team. We should have been there and would have had we had a good head coach. The past 3 years we have had our destiny in our own hands and have fumbled the ball. Oh and with Saban they improved every year. What improvement have we shown? Oh yeah we can hang on against Duke but when we play less talented but well coached teams we lose every time. THe reason is the coaches are morons. And the reason we lost the VA game is not because of Whipple it was because Randy did not have the team ready to play as usual and Virginia's coach out coached our coach again. OSU lost was attributed to Harris throwing picks some his fault and one that I saw not, but in the end he threw the picks. You can wait till doomsday and Shannon can bring in 50 more players and he will still give us the same results year after year.

Manny, no disrespect, but arguing that Randy Shannon should not be fired because he has a higher winning percentage than some of the names on that list is not the best way to argue your point. The fact that UM has a higher winning percentage since 2007 over schools such as NC, NC State, Stanford, etc. is not much of an accomplishment. I do agree with some of the posts in that our expectations seem to be a bit high. However, its not so much the expectations but the fact that our teams seem to be underperforming in every aspect. Its not like Randy is not recruiting, he is drawing good talent. For some reason though, that talent does not produce while at UM. The fact that you see guys like Sam Shields and Bruce Johnson playing well in the NFL is the biggest indictment of Randy Shannon's coaching ineptitude. Its a shame because I think we all want to see him succeed...

As for the Butch Davis arguments, Butch Davis is a far superior coach and I do not believe that a viable argument exists to the contrary. Look at what he has done in four years at NC. Before the season started, some people were predicting that NC would have 4-5 first round picks on defense alone! Correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure that NC has a terrible football history.

I'd be willing to bet that most of the Randy Shannon apologists who strive to minimalize Randy Shannons defects and shortcomings and repeatedly point out his strong points are the same people who worshipped Larry Coker. Many of them to this day think Coker could have turned this team around if given the chance.

Shannon plays the blame game. Only once has he come out and said "This loss is on me. My fault."
What about the fiasco at the end of the Emerald Bowl that was supposed to be a two minute drill? This team was NOT PREPARED for a 2 minute drill?
Then I watched as Shannon shifted the blame on Nix and gave excuses about our inexperience at QB. Shannon! Even HS QB's know 2 minute drills. RS should have overseen and made SURE Nix had his charges executing this fundamental but monumentally important aspect of the game. That was when I knew.....

Due to my health I can no longer attend games but I do watch on TV and I digitally record almost every game. This past week against VT we got outcoached but that is not the sole reason why we lost. We were the victims of highway robbery. It was obvious midway through the 2nd quarter that the officials working this game had orders from something/someone that Miami was NOT to even sniff victory in that game. In that sense the officials did a fine job carrying out that dubious mission. I just feel sorry for the kids and even for Shannon too. He still needs replacing though.

Manny Navarro is a good sports columnist. I don't know how he really feels about RS but I firmly believe if he came out and wrote a scathing anti-Shannon column about why Shannon needs to be fired, the editor in chief would call him into his office and give him hell and send him back to his office(if he has one) But Manny ultimately knows who puts montequellia on his pan.

Hire Belotti from espn

Monkey, you owned Manny.

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