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Hate for Randy's guys? Hardly. Shannon's players still play big roles for Golden's Canes

It was supposed to be a relatively quiet bye week for the Hurricanes.

It's hardly been that.

First, Luther Robinson's father took to the radio waves earlier this week (he said it was him) and called UM coach Al Golden a liar for saying he doesn't have enough talent on the defensive line. Then, Robinson Sr. wondered aloud if the Hurricanes' second-year coach had "something against [former coach] Randy Shannon's players," -- the excuse as to why his son and other Shannon recruits supposedly are not playing more.

A couple days later, the drama continued.

Defensive end Kelvin Cain -- one of Shannon's recruits -- was discovered to be off the Hurricanes roster (Surprise! Somehow Golden forgot to mention it during his 10 minute ACC teleconference). A UM spokesman later informed a few observant roster watchers that Cain's name had indeed been deleted on purpose because he "left the team."

A day later, Cain's mom told our Susan Miller Degnan she was puzzled and couldn't understand why UM had said Cain left the team. Now, Cain's mom is hoping her son finds a way back on the roster and avoids becoming the 15th player to sign with UM under Randy Shannon and depart under Al Golden before their time was supposed to be up.

So does all this mean Al Golden really does have something against Randy Shannon's players? Is this all part of Al's master plan? Is he sitting in his office crossing Shannon's guys off his list with a red magic marker and laughing like Dr. Evil?

Hardly. Smells like sour grapes to me. Sounds like more excuses. Reads like it too.

Here are some numbers regarding this Hurricanes roster you might find interesting:

> By my count there are currently 79 players on scholarship at UM. Forty-five were recruited by Al Golden and 34 committed to the program under Randy Shannon.

> Of those 79 scholarship players, 26 were listed on offense on the depth chart before the Florida State game and 28 were listed on defense. Count the two kickers -- Dalton Botts and Jake Wieclaw -- and you have a total of 56 scholarship players who aren't just special teams guys (like Dallas Crawford) who see playing time regularly on game day.

> The remaining healthy 19 scholarship players are on scout team/special teams along with other walk-ons. UM has four scholarship players out for the season with injury: OT Ben Jones, LB Ramon Buchanan, WR Malcolm Lewis and QB David Thompson.

So how many Golden guys are starters? 10 including seven on defense.

How many Golden guys are backups? 18 including a dozen on defense.

How many starters are Shannon guys? 18 including a dozen on offense.

How many Shannon guys are backups? Ten.

So that's 28 Shannon guys and 28 Golden guys that make up the depth chart. I'm no mathematician, but that sounds pretty even to me.

Forget math for a moment and concentrate simply on "equal opportunity." I'm a firm believer that any coach puts winning first. If Luther Robinson or Kelvin Cain were even remotely better than the players currently playing for UM why would any coach in their right mind not put them in the game?

Here's the only reasoning that makes sense: Robinson and Cain are not better than the guys competing with them in practice everyday. And if they aren't cutting it in practice, Golden is doing the right thing by playing younger players in the game.

Those players are not only going to ride out the oncoming NCAA storm with Golden, but they still have time to grow and improve. Last I checked, Robinson and Cain have each had at least three seasons to prove they deserve a starting job here. They didn't do it with the previous staff. And they obviously haven't done it now against a bunch of freshmen and sophomore.

Golden is a hater? Give me a break.

HERE IS THE ROSTER BREAKDOWN OF SHANNON'S GUYS VS. GOLDEN'S GUYS (commitment date in parenthesis)

GOLDEN'S GUYS (45 scholarship recruits)
Starters (10)
OT Ereck Flowers (5/28/11)
WR Rashawn Scott (1/25/11)
DE Olsen Pierre (12/19/10)
DT Corey King (5/2011)
LB Eddie Johnson (2/2/11)
LB Gionni Paul (1/29/11)
LB Denzel Perryman (1/22/11)
DB Ladarius Gunter (12/4/11)
S Deon Bush (1/7/12)
P Dalton Botts (12/29/10)

Backups (18)
QB Ryan Williams (transfer - 5/6/11)
WR Robert Lockhart (1/7/12)
WR Herb Waters (7/11/11)
OG Daniel Isidora (11/29/11)
OT Hunter Wells (late addition - 8/11)
DT Dequan Ivery (2/1/12)
DT Earl Moore (8/17/11)
DT Darius Smith (5/2011)
DE Ricardo Williams (1/9/11)
DE Jelani Hamilton (6/21/11)
DE Tyriq McCord (1/7/12)
LB Thurston Armbrister (late addition - 6/6/11)
LB Raphael Kirby (5/17/11)
CB Antonio Crawford (1/29/12)
CB Thomas Finnie (1/7/11)
CB Tracy Howard (2/2/12)
S Rayshawn Jenkins (11/14/11)
K Matt Goudis (1/16/11)

Scout team (15)
QB Gray Crow (2/16/11)
QB Preston Dewey (6/3/11)
RB Dallas Crawford (1/18/11)
RB Danny Dillard (11/6/11)
WR Jontavious Carter (3/10/11)
WR D'Mauri Jones (6/2/11)
OL Taylor Gadbois (9/7/11)
DT Jacoby Briscoe (1/6/12)
DE Jalen Grimble (2/2/11)
DE Dwayne Hoilett (6/16/11)
DE Jake O'Donnell (6/12/11)
DE Gabriel Terry (11/24/11)
LB Jawand Blue (2/1/12)
CB Nate Dortch (8/2/11)
CB Larry Hope (6/3/11)

Out for the year with injury (2)
QB David Thompson (2/17/11)
WR Malcolm Lewis (11/17/11)

SHANNON'S GUYS (34)
Starters (18)
QB Stephen Morris (8/3/09) 
RB Duke Johnson (9/20/10) 
RB Mike James (6/28/08) 
FB Maurice Hagens (6/14/09) 
WR Phillip Dorsett (6/19/10) 
WR Allen Hurns (12/2009) 
LT Malcolm Bunche (9/8/09) 
LG Jonathan Feliciano (4/8/09) 
C Shane McDermott (3/10/09) 
RG Brandon Linder (12/20/09) 
RT Seantrel Henderson (2/3/10) 
TE Clive Walford (7/20/09) 
DE Shayon Green (1/25/09) 
DE Anthony Chickillo (9/9/10) 
LB Jimmy Gaines (1/24/10) 
CB Brandon McGee (8/11/08) 
S Kacy Rodgers (7/20/09) 
K Jake Wieclaw (12/16/07)

Backups (10)
RB Eduardo Clements (11/3/09)
WR Davon Johnson (7/17/07)
WR Kendall Thompkins (11/08/07)
TE Dyron Dye (1/4/09)
TE Asante Cleveland (2/3/10)
C Jared Wheeler (1/10/09)
LG Jeremy Lewis (4/9/07)
LB Tyrone Cornelius (8/18/09)
S AJ Highsmith (2/19/08)
S Vaughn Telemaque (2/1/08)

Scout team (4)
TE David Perry (10/23/09)
TE Cory White (5/14/08)
DT Curtis Porter (7/29/08)
DT Luther Robinson (4/29/08)

Shannon recruits Injured and out for the season (2)
LB Ramon Buchanan (2/6/08)
OT Ben Jones (2/6/08)  

Shannon recruits that left the program under Golden (15)
S Ray-Ray Armstrong (1/4/09)
OL Jermaine Barton (12/20/09)
LB Kelvin Cain (1/8/10)
RB Darion Hall (6/10/09)
RB Storm Johnson (11/1/09)
DT Jeffery Brown (2/1/2010) - Charged with rape
DB Devont'a Davis (10/7/09)
LB Travis Williams (10/20/09)
DB Jamal Reid (9/25/08)
LB Kevin Nelson (7/4/09)
DB Keion Payne (11/8/09) - Dismissed for violating team rules
TE Andrew Tallman (9/20/09)
TE Billy Sanders (2/4/09)
FB CJ Holton (12/22/07)
WR Aldarius Johnson (7/23/07)

Recruits that didn't make it into school under Golden (3)
RB Kevin Grooms (1/17/11)
WR Angelo Jean-Louis (4/30/11)
LB Antonio Kinard (1/17/11)

Golden recruits whose career was cut short by injury
LB Josh Witt (7/1/11)

Golden recruits that left the program (1)
DB Vernon Davis (6/12/11)

Shannon recruits that Golden stopped recruiting and never signed (2)
WR Jeremy Davis (2010 -- now at UCF)
LB Nick Menocal (2010 -- now at Georgia Tech)

Shannon recruits that never made it into UM (8)
DT Tavadis Glenn (4/18/09)
DT Delmar Taylor (1/12/10)
DB Prince Kent (7/21/08)
LB Zach Kane (12/4/07)
LB Brandon Marti (11/24/07)
DB CJ Odom (10/9/07)
LB Antonio Harper (10/3/07)

Recruits that transferred out under Shannon (6)
DB Latwan Anderson (3/10/10)
LB Arthur Brown (12/17/07)
WR Thearon Collier (6/6/07)
QB Taylor Cook (5/9/07)
QB Cannon Smith (11/6/07)
DB Joe Wylie (4/2/07)

Career cut short by Injury under Shannon (2)
TE Stephen Plein (6/19/08)
LB Gavin Hardin (2/5/08)

Shannon recruits graduated and now gone (10)
TE Chase Ford (12/8/09)
WR Travis Benjamin (12/21/07)
WR LaRon Byrd (2/5/08)
FB John Calhoun (12/5/07)
LB Jordan Futch (6/6/07)
DT Micanor Regis (3/28/07)
LB Marcus Robinson (7/15/07)
DE Andrew Smith (9/26/07)
QB Jacory Harris (6/12/07)
LB Sean Spence (8/4/07)

Shannon recruits that left early for the NFL under Golden (5)
RB Lamar Miller (10/7/08)
DE Olivier Vernon (3/2/08)
OL Brandon Washington (9/25/08)
DT Marcus Forston (7/26/07)
WR Tommy Streeter (2008)

Shannon recruits that left early for the NFL under his watch (1)
CB Brandon Harris (2/6/08)

Comments

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Golden has shown love for this U. Like him or not, we need some continuity and loyalty.

like Buthc Davis, sticking around throug the sanction years will be the proof. Recall, NCAA sanctions hit in 1995, but really didnt take their toll until 1997 and 1998, and UM showed what it had in 1999, but was still too young. So it took 5 years. Then Butch bolted. But he left the cupboard full for antother 5 years through great recruiting, only to be decimated by Coker.

Gallo and Calvin are the same negative nancies. They are morons

This team will go at the very least 7-5. If tahst the case they will self impose a secomd bowl.

Have to have to have to beat VTech.

Manny- good article. Kelvin Cain: buh bye son. Look what happened to Ray Ray. Where Ray Ray at? Ray Ray not even playing football anymore.

lol, i remember this idiot saying UM should stay away from northwestern qb's. They got mad when teddy bridgewater committed. Funny thing is, right now, coach goldie and his coaching staff he brought from the mac would get whooped by louisville right now.

No way would i have taken the qb's we have now over bridgewater. That man has no fear. They punished north carolina, teddy as a true sophmore doing work, stepping up in the pocket and making things happen. Our qb, smo, has a strong arm, but doesn't know when to take heat off the ball, bails out on the pocket to early a whole lot of the times.

The problem with us right now, it's not about are we able to get the best players in the nation, we just have to get back to getting the best players in Miami, South Florida, from Fort Myers on down and we'd be straight right now.

Think aboout this:
teddy bridgewater
sammy watkins
amari cooper
charlie gaines
eli rogers
elkino watson
devonta freeman
giovanni bernard

The list goes on, with the kelvin cain situation, i'm curious, maybe gionni paul was with him too or something, he didn't play against Fsu either. I don't get caught up in all that recruiting ranking's stuff, i do know we need to keep guys like:
matthew thomas
stacey coley
kirkland
alex collins
jordan cunningham
bryant, bostwick, bain or senat
jermaine grace or skai moore
jamal carter
mackensie alexander
artie burns

That's about what this next recruiting class needs to look like in order for goldie to be serious about UM getting back to where it belongs. Other than that, we'll continue to see alot of guys doing work at other programs from the crib.

Enough of this already.....if the upper classmen that aren't playing were better than the young man in front of them they would be playing, period. Manny doesn't need to tell us that these coaches want to win and that their jobs depend on developing these players, we should all know this.

This Golden bashing is indicative of the fast food, instant gratification nature of many of the fans that follow not only the Canes but every program in the country.

The grass is greener generation has no patience, drifts from day to day and has no plan or direction in life and it is sadly reflected in many of the posts I am reading.

Golden and staff are doing all they can with what they have and with what Randy Shannon and company left him.

Many of these complainers about the upper classman not playing are the same ones who were questioning why Randy and Co. were offering these kids scholarships.

The best players play, end of story, and this attutude about players calling radio shows and such is exactly the entitlement attitude that got the U in this fix in the first place and has got to go.

If you are an upper classmen at the U and aren't happy that you aren't playing you can do one of two things.

1. Work harder, spend more time in the film room and earn your spot or 2. You can quit! It sound like many of them are quitting, so bye!

Good post, anonymous, but i'm not looking for instant success, i'm looking at the curent plan being presented by this defensive staff, and that plan is a failed plan. What d-co in their right mind will consistently and continually keep dropping shayon green back into pass coverage.

Again, shayon green, thee offensive(cause the defense is offensive)coordinator has confidence in shayon covering a runningback like chris thompson, is that the plan we're suppose to believe is going to give us patience to keep watching, that's asinine.

Or the plan where the coaching staff only attempts 4 running plays the whole second half against Fsu and you're only down by 3. Or the plan where, forget the older players, but you already were claiming you needed better db's, so they go out and get several, but all of a sudden one transfers out, the other(t3)gets into it with the offensive coordinator, if he leaves now you down to who in the defensive backfield.

They can't say tracy howard doesn't put in work, but when guys are sitting their looking at how bad the defense is mainy because guys are not being put into place to make plays. Our defensive guys are beat on most plays before the ball is even snapped. You don't just become one of the worst defenses in college just by being young.

Different league, but are we going to hear now how fields over at the west is going ot have to start recruiting, they are on the verge of missing the play-offs for the 1st time in around 20 years.

I don't have patience for inept coaches that consistently blames the players without taking responsibilty, not just in words either. Like it was posted earlier by someone, when have you ever seen a coordinator who's suppose to be coaching the defensive guys, have his whole defense looking at him before the play, lol, what that means is, they'll be playing even that much slower, and the whatever he's trying to teach them during the week is not translating, otherwise, wouldn't be that much confusion on defense.

That's the plan that's in place right now. The good news is, it doesn't take Miami players that long to be dominant in the right scheme and with proper coaching. That's the plan i have faith in, are the players.

Accusing Manny of race baiting in this article is so laughable I shouldn't even be commenting on this. Get a grip Bob_bba and a life. When you have something interesting to say we might listen but given your penchant for stupid remarks like that, I doubt it!

Posted by: DNix

If recruits read this blog and make a decision on coming to THE U from that then they are as dumb as CutlerRidge Laz. You come to THE U because we have the best home crowd in the country and most pro bowlers.

GO CANES ALL DAY EVERY DAY AND ESPECIALLY IN THE NEW STADIUM IN TROPICAL PARK

Calvin,

Look at the offenses in the college game today and how many points they are putting up, even in the SEC (Georgia 44 UT 37,) Then look at the defenses that are allowing mega points, Texas, Arkansas, Miami, West Virginia, Baylor, Kansas,Texas Tech, Georgia Tech, Va.Tech and more. Offenses are way ahead of the defenses, at least there is much evidence to show this is correct. It is not only happening at the U. That is not an excuse, just the facts.

If anything this year I think the defense has gotten better the last two games, honestly how many of you though FSU would lay 50 plus on the U? They were given 7 points by Golden and 3 by the officials and scored 33 total. Va. Tech gave up 44 to UNC just the week before the U let one get away but only gave up 18 points to UNC. There has been progress, small and not enough to satisy the "right now, impatient generation" but progress nonetheless.

On offense the opposing defenses have played their db's deeper and the under stuff is there but again, many freshman and sophomores are hitting a wall, not an excuse and they have to work through it and they will.

Can things be better, yes and you won't find a player or coach on this staff that doesn't agree with that, they are working on it and many are working hours many who blog on this site wouldn't do themselves, to get the U back on track.

It is coming, look at the roster and look at the lack of experience and the youth, (yeah I heard enough about it but the facts are what they are) Then look at the upperclasmen who weren't getting it done and should not even be on a D-1 roster but are here any way.

This program is headed in the right direction, make no mistake about that!

Also show me any conversation or press conference where Golden hasn't mentioned the need for coaching to get it done and hasn't taken ownership of the shortcomings and that he hasn't said that's on me! Show me? Where it is all blamed on the players?

I'm out... to spend the day watching college football!

anonymousCane, i could care less about what's going on around the country. The reason alot of teams are putting up alot of points is because to many of those teams are trying to run to many gimmick offenses, so they're own defenses have to practice against those type of gimmicky offenses. Just look at the coaches who have kept it fundamental and have been playing traditional football, bama, south carolina, the gaytors are actually playing old traditional football, lsu, k st., those are the teams who are sticking close to traditional football, k st. has to go up against klein everyday in practice, although he may not be considered a traditional qb, you still have to stop him from running it.

All these gimmicky offenses haven't affected those teams. The teams you named, Georgia tech had a guy coaching their defense who basically help raise the goldie and his boy oach OH-NO, you see where his philosophy on defense got him(al groh) right. Those other schools, with the eception of Virginia tech and Arkansas are not known for their defenses. big 12 teams don't play real defense.

I said this before the game, and noticed it last year, for some reason, our defensive scheme gives gumbo fisher problems, and i know why, and you would to if you looked at it. So that game doesn't count for me as our defense improving. I also said before the game ej manuel is overrated, another reason that played in to our favor, be that as it may, they still hung 33 on us.

Now i do agree the guys like dorsett(balla) scott(up & coming balla) are hitting a wall, what they've done up until this point as True sophmores is impressive, i'm not worried about the offensive side of the ball except them needing to committ to the running game more with mike james and eduardo, stop trying to force duke to be the full time starter when he's physically not ready for that, keep the backs fresh and rotate em decent. Don't rotate mike james after he just got a 8 to 10 yard run.

I like goldie, but he needs to have a fundamental change on how we need to play defense here. Trying to run a hybrid 3-4 defense is a waste of time, all those defenses get torched when a team has a good 2nd & 3rd wideout, and trying to go to a 3-4 defense makes you a slwer defense, you might be more physical, but who cares about being more physical if guys are blowing past your guys and scoring points.

goldie does take ownership in press conferences, that's why i said "not just in words". But also, don't take ownership out of one side of your mouth, than out the otherside we start trying to point fingers at the players on plays that were obviously the coaches fault but you basically saying the players have to bail you out.

You do know that when luther robinson caused that fumble against boston college, the coaches were pissed off because that's not the technique they wanted to see because on that play, that's what they call a d-linemen loosing "gap integrity" while he made a play, they don't want their d-linemen being that aggresive and just shooting 1 gap off the snap like luther did on that play. That's where the problems began with luther, so in order to try to try and reinforce what they want, they benched em the next game, so that type of play is not what they want their younger guys trying to do.

oach OH-NO, the one who's in charge of calling the defensive plays, is always blaming the players, he never takes ownership that's why he shouldn't be allowed to talk.

The only this staff gets aggressive defensively is during press conferences and interviews about WTF the defense is this bad. Why do all qb's almost all qb's have career days against us. Our defense since this staff has gotten here have consistently clouded up the heisman trophy race for qb's, because the majority of the qb's that went up against us, i think most of them got their hat tossed in the cap, if you go down the list of qb's starting from last year and see what type of games they had, it's pathetic.

After most of them play us, you barely hear about them again. But better yet, see when they play against a supposedly weaker team or even when they play a team from the MEAC, those saem qb's look like trash or regular, so that's why i don't buy that youth and depth chart talk.

Last year we had an older team but thee excuse was "we got a wake forrest walk on transfer & lee chambers playing db" as to why we couldn't be more aggressive in the secondary. We had a better d-line and older d-line last year, all of a sudden in one year, the same d-line goes from being one of the tops in the nation in tackles for loss in 2010 and was getting sacks under coach petri, 2011 comes in, all of that dissappeared.

So now this year thee excuse, ok, look at our depth chart, well guess what, if you keep moving players from the d-line to tight-end and o-linemen and kicking players off the team from the defensive side of the ball, don't start crying about depth chart issues.
curtis porter has the talent to be a 1-gap or 2-gap d-linemen. The reason he's not playing now, they're trying to get him to get rid of the 1-gap mentality before they put him back out their. So this year he'll be redshirted.

So let me be clear, i like the direction we're going in on the offensive side of the ball, but i'll never be alright with a cowards defensive scheme where the db's are playing that far off the wide receivers. press-man forces a qb to have to be accurate and forces a wr to have to run routes, we never mess up the timing of qb's and wr, that's how a logan thomas can go 22/23 at one point in the game last year. people feeling like we should be able to take v-tech this year because their down, thursday night, we'll see, because one thing beamer is smart enuff to do is keep running the ball and shorten the game up.


Lets get this right you and ugmo write and a piece on Randy Shannon players vs Algolden players. You write yourarticle with a slant leaveing the reader to belive thee isnt any bias in the Al Golden camp.. Maybe just maybe if you spoke with some of the players who arent afraid to lose there scolly they migh tell you diffrent. Dont forget you and ugmo wrote the piece call Randys players that left "trash" "REMEMBER AFTER ALGOLDE GOT RIDE OF THE TRASH" Wow great piece of work....

Sheesh, Calvin. Are you that vociferous at work?
Please at least TRY to keep the verbiage under 3000 words.
Thank God your not doing CAPS.

That said,nin your last post it was I believe paragraph 347 you mentioned our defense getting better. Yes and no. FSU had a penalty marred offense that day, and left at least 17 points on the field they would normally have scored.

what is really sickening is the number of comments that judge, degrade these kids. The presumption is that all of these kids are pampered, looking for handouts, feel entitled, not up to hard work...parents looking for a paycheck through their kids. While there are some kids who come from lower socioeconomic levels, that does not mean they are opposed to hard work. In fact, you'll find some of them who have dedicated their lives, their summers every year since they were in elementary school training and playing this game to get to this level. That does not equal a lazy person. And, for the record, you have a number of these young men who come from middle class families with both parents supporting them and are very focused on their futures. You all want people to respect the U, but you don't even give the players who are busting their butts everyday any respect. If they have a complaint, then it's because they are pampered, whiners, and don't want discipline. PLEASE. I can tell you've never played college football at this level, nor do you have anyone close to you who is playing. If you did, you would not judge these kids so harshly. If you represent the mindset of Canes truest fans, then I'm asheamed.

Anonymous, why do you say some of the upper classmen don't deserve to be at a D-1 school but are here anyway? I guess when these freshmen get to be juniors and if we are still not winning, then it will be because they didn't deserve to be at a D-1 school. Wow. The same guys you loved when they signed are the ones that are now not good enough to be here. I do know some of these guys and recruits read these blogs and comments like yours are part of the problem they're facing in the locker room. A house divided will not stand.
All, Stop pitting the younger guys against the older guys. They feel it and it's not good for the team. Coaches do enough of that and it has caused a lot of problems that show up on and off the field. They are one team and will win or lose together. Many of these older guys are the ones they used to attract and sign the younger guys. Help them to become ONE. Put pressure on the journalists and coaches who are always writing articles and highlighting the younger guys and discounting any contribution these older guys make to the team. We have some great young guys who need to stay here - and they don't have much incentive to do so - and we also have older guys who still have the experience and talent we need to take us into the homestretch this year and next.

Hey, Randy is gone but remember he is family. He gave us great years as player. Maybe he was a terrible coach. Most are. I was sad to see him fail but happy to see him go. Obviously something was wrong.

As to Golden, one thing makes it clear that he is NOT showing favorites. Nothing is more important to a coach today than his QB. Al picked Harris, Randy's boy, when he could have went with Morris for a clean break. Then he comes back and picks Morris, Randy's next boy, when he could have easily gone with the uninjuried tall white boy he requirted with a state championship under his belt. Al pick Morris. Clearly he picks the player he thinks deserves it and give us the best chance to win. Not to say he makes the right choice, but clearly it not out of some sort of favoritism. If he is wrong it is becasue he too might not be a good enough coach.

To me, the real problem has been for some time is that we have not had a NFL caliber DT since Big Daddy left for New England. Get a couple Brown, Maryland, Kennedy types and watch how fast our defensive coaches look like God and our offensive bluders don't matter so much. It is all about the middle. Collapse the pocket, stuff the inside runs, and keep the linebackers clean and suddenly everyone looks better.

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